Skylight wrote:
Teen christian: you said
Let me lay it on the line guys, if you don't obey Christ as Lord, become His slave (not servant, trash "The Shack" people!) AND remain that way until you die, YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN!!!!
That sounds like a work based salvation. Remember we are saved by "grace throuh faith" not of "works". Grace is a free gift received by faith.

This is per Jude 4, "For there were certain men crept in unawares,who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

12: These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear; clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots;

13...wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

TeenChristian wrote:
Hey guys? Ummm.. look I should probably tell y'all that I've got a very dark & messy past..First time admitting this, so cut me a break) to be honest I'm a (former) porn addict and after I got hooked on that smut I got locked in an illicit sexting relationship with a young girl, her name was Jessa. The Lord in His kindness saved me out of that, Jessa on the other hand..what I'm getting at is, please pray for Jessa. Her mom is a lesbian which really messed her up, and she won't listen to me anymore when I try to share the gospel. (She stopped listening to me MONTHS ago) A day doesn't go by where my past doesn't come back to haunt me, and every day I think about Jessa, about her eternal soul..please pray for her, I'm begging you guys.

CV wrote:
Cab i remember you from the last time you were here. Your rant agaist the Jews and Amreica. I cut right to the chase.
Your theology is cosistent with someone of a muslim understanding. Consistent with your theology is that a good muzlim is saved, and most Christians are lost.

I don't like being hammered by this whole forum. Only one person has been fair with me, not even agreeing with me but still being fair and honest in talking to me. The rest of you are like wolves after blood.

My thinking on Christians going to Hell is that Jesus said most people everywhere will go to Hell, including a lot of Christians, maybe half if you use the foolish virgins as an indication of how many won't make it to Heaven.

Beyond that, there are degrees of punishment in Hell. Some receive "a more severe damnation," and the more we know, the more light we have, the more we are responsible. Remember the parable of the lazy servant, and the master was spitting mad furious, said "You lazy, WORTHLESS servant..

MIKE: Do you feel you have a lock on it?

CAB: Jesus sure does. I don't see you sticking YOUR neck out to talk about any of this stuff. Do you think you're heading to Heaven on a speedrail? You don't think any of Jesus' warnings to the saved have meaning?

You do know there are guillotines in the FEMA camps, yes? And has anybody ever talked on this forum about what they plan to do if the Noahide laws are enforced in those camps, which I have heard that dissidents will be sent there and yes, this will indeed happen. The way things are going, any of us could be faced with something like that, deny Jesus or die.

And also we could die in our sins, like the 5 virgins or the lazy servant or the backslidden servant Jesus talked about?

Or the second and third examples in the Parable of the Sower, or the implications of what Jesus taught about the first example? Jesus DID teach these things, so they are true, nobody better than him to know, and 4 separate people recorded.

These are only SOME warnings by Jesus to SAVED people of HELL.

Frank wrote:
... how much suffering, persecution, being hated and excluded, killed, burned, crucified, impoverished do we have to undergo to be what you call a Christian. How holy do we have to be before we are saved.

I'm talking about remaining saved, not getting saved.

How much suffering? Read history. Foxe's book of Martyrs if you can stand to read it. Read the Bible, read Paul's life and see what he endured, 8 beatings, a few stonings, shipwrecks, imprisoned, abandoned, martyred. Paul never assumed OSAS, and kept on running his race, keeping his eyes on the prize, was anxious to go to Heaven but glad to stay to work. Toward the very end he felt confident he could pass his last test, martyrdom, and was joyfully looking forward to Heaven because as he said, he had run his race.

Paul's last words: 2 Tim.4:

6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

CV wrote:
Cab, no wonder you don't like TULIP.
You got SIN and DEPRAVITY wrong. If God were to remove His restraining hand, man would race headlong to hell. You think man is ok and at judgement, Allah will weigh the good and the bad deeds on a balance...

The Bible says the human heart is wicked above all things--but that doesn't equal the infernal doctrine of TOTAL DEPRAVITY. Romans teaches God reveals himself in his Creation and there is no excuse for ANYONE to not believe in Him. Ponder that.

There are many Bible examples of people who were not "totally depraved": "good men, just men, holy men of old." It's a Calvinist lie all people are totally depraved.

I've heard FEMA camps are built for dissidents per Noahide laws, and guillotines are stocked there for people who won't renounce their "idolatry" of belief in Jesus. Will you put your head on the block for Jesus? Jesus says if we deny him, he will deny us before the Father.

JSC wrote:
CAB Clarification: God does not choose a man based on a man. God chooses a man based on what pleases Himself and only for that reason. You see that is what it means to be SOVERIEGN. If He chose a man based on the man then He is subordinate to the man.

Those who won't obey, won't follow orders, God may put them in a position where they can do nothing else BUT to trust him, and that may be all they can do to bring glory to God, which is to suffer without complaint.

God may have given someone a lot of ability and opportunity to serve Him, and those who won't do that, who are lazy as the servant Jesus taught about, can end up in Hell.

1517 wrote:
CAB,
How hypocritical...reflect no light...

I don't want to discuss with you either, because we speak two different languages. Someone like you might be able to start to actually understand what I'm saying if these others were not blowing smoke and using dirty tricks to stop discussion.

Perhaps some people might go to the beginning of the discussions here and read what I said, what I tried to share here. I speak from my heart, and from what I know to be true from scripture. I'm not trying to win a debate.

I tried to get people to take a look at, the teachings of Jesus to the saved, his warnings to THEM about Hell.

What do you think about Jesus' teaching about forgiveness, the man who was forgiven much but would not forgive his neighbor even a little? Did that man remain forgiven? No, and he was charged 10-fold. So much for OSAS.

Grace by ovenant wrote:
When I came on this thread originally it was to debate the different interpretation of baptism between Presbyterian (paedobaptism) and Baptist (credobaptism) and God's Covenant. All I expected was debate. However I am disappointed with the Baptist response in that it developed into contempt, mockery and scorn. As I said before my hope was a debate between the two theological positions but that seems to be impossible.

They stand guard like the troll under the bridge in the story Three Billy Goats Gruff. I think that's where maybe the word "troll" comes from?

They call new posters here "trolls" -- but they have been guarding the bridge for years and won't let anybody cross.

GsTexas wrote:
Looks like skylight doesn't have anymore understanding of perseverance of the saints than CAB.

What hubris to wrest a scripture, redefine words and read a lot of "stuff" in or out of it to make it say something ridiculous, cultic, damnable, discordant and blasphemous.

Four gospels have many teachings by Jesus to the SAVED warning THEM of Hell, warnings to SAVED people we MUST do to gain Heaven and if we do NOT that He Jesus will deny us before the Father, He WILL tell us on Judgment Day, Depart from me you worker of iniquity, he WILL put back all our formerly forgiven sins 10-fold.

We've been discussing the parable of the sower and the parable of the ten virgins, and nobody acknowledged it was about saved people becoming lost. Not one person had eyes to see.

Paul told Timothy Scripture is profitable for doctrine and "instruction in righteousness," but this is breaking news here on Sermon Audio?

Mind control much to miss all these heavy duty teachings?

CV wrote:
But John, your problem isn't Calvinism (it never is), your problem is that God did the choosing and not you.
even if Calvin hadn't said it, somebody reading the bible woud have. I would have said it!

Why would God choose somebody who will go about telling filthy lies about God, that God is the author of evil and that God makes people helpless depraved monsters and sends them to Hell on a whim, by the luck of the draw, that if you win the lottery you go to Heaven (to live with all these evil people and an evil Calvinist god and Calvin and the burners and crucifiers, what a place, do you really wanna go?) ...

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Our precious Lord Jesus fulfilled at least 28 prophecies when he went to Calvary to take the punishment of the sins of His people. CAB thinks all that happened by coincidence.

Slander and railing are two sins the Bible says will exclude someone from Heaven. You are guilty of both. And so are your friends Lurker, UK John and 1575. I have heard the London Banksters and intelligence agencies have thousands of people hired to go on forums like this and blow smoke and anything to keep people blind and exploited.

Strat wrote:
Responsible people of any party have every right to be upset about Obamacare.
Responsible people must now under penalty of law be even more responsible while those who have never known responsibility of any kind will continue to be ignorant of it.

Strat wrote:
The harsh realities of the bible,especially the book of revelation exceed most people's emotional limits to cope so they come up with all kinds of reasons to dismiss any mention of them or any clear signs of their soon arrival,modern American Christianity has done little to nothing to prepare people for what is coming....selling lolly pops and Sunshine faithfully now for over 50 years

Christianity is about suffering, persecution, being hated and excluded, killed, burned, crucified, impoverished. The Bible Christians weren't easy believers telling fellow Christians to sit back, relax, that God expects NOTHING from us, and to serve or live for God or heed the instructions in righteousness in scripture means we're not really saved and some kind of devil. Annanias and Sophira got struck down dead and went to Hell -- just because they didn't admit to how much they gave to the church. But people today lie every other word and don't care, no fear of God.

DOLORES said: "Like the rich, young ruler who came to Jesus and even called Him Lord and wanted to know how to receive eternal life. He even said that he had kept the commandments from his youth up. Jesus said, go and sell all you have and give to the poor. The young man turned away sad and Jesus was sad but he saw his heart and the keeping of the commandments could not save him."

CAB: On the rest of your post about all the church rules--anybody who goes into any church is subject to peer pressure to conform. That's not reason to throw out our big Bible: full of instruction in righteousness per 2 Tim. 3:16.
And if the rich young ruler came to ask Jesus how to be saved, are you saying Jesus lied to him when he commended him for obeying the commandments, and gave him wrong advice when he said to sell all he had and come follow him?

If the true answer was "NOTHING," why didn't Jesus SAY that?

The answer is because God wants EVERYTHING. And the rich young ruler was not willing at that time to give up all he had because the Bible said he "had much possessions."

The Bible does give instructions in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16) one of its purposes. Also warnings of pitfalls that can make us fall away. We need to take heed.

CAB: Re the rest of your post about all the church rules--anybody who goes into any church is subject to peer pressure to conform. That's not reason to throw out that big Bible: full of instruction in righteousness per 2 Tim. 3:16.

And if the rich young ruler came to ask Jesus how to be saved, are you saying Jesus lied to him when he commended him for obeying the commandments, and gave him wrong advice when he said to sell all he had and come follow him?

If the true answer was "NOTHING," why didn't Jesus SAY that?

The answer is because God wants EVERYTHING. And the rich young ruler was not willing, at least at that time, to give up all he had because the Bible said he "had much possessions."

The Bible does give instructions in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16) one of its purposes. Also warnings of pitfalls that can make us fall away. We need to take heed.

Lurker wrote:
Harmonize if you must. As for me, I prefer the perfect cover to cover harmony God has masterfully incorporated into His word.

If you can't make a scripture harmonize, then leave it alone. Never, ever take a scripture and use it to prove a belief system which is the antithesis of the whole rest of scripture.

God gave us the Bible, it's all true, all of it is true -- including the teachings of Jesus. So why are the churches avoiding the teachings of Jesus in the gospels, or if they do set down on them lightly they ignore their plain meanings and interpretations?

You cannot take a belief system and cram it down onto the Bible to make the Bible fit it when it does NOT fit it, and then maybe just go write another set of books you prefer INSTEAD to follow the belief system you can't seem to quite squeeze out of the Bible.

Lurker wrote:
OK. So strike Heb 5:7-10 from our bibles. It doesn't harmonize. OK. So shall we strike John 6:39 from our bibles as well or just rewrite it so it harmonizes?

Harmonize does not mean throw out verses that don't seem to gel. It means DON'T DRAW CONCLUSIONS THAT DON'T HARMONIZE WITH THE VAST ARRAY OF SCRIPTURE THAT IS KNOWN AND EASILY AND COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD.

And if you don't have the answer to a scripture that seems odd or strange, then put it on the shelf if you don't have the time or interest to harmonize it.

Everything MUST harmonize, and if we can't find a way to do that then we wait for another day.

But ripping verses and phrases here and there to build a religion that contradicts the vast array of holy scripture is CULTIC, sinful, soul damning.

CAB: This is a key verse that must be harmonized w/ Psalm 41:9.

US: Acts 4:27&28 "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, FOR TO DO WHATSOEVER THY HAND AND THY COUNSEL DETERMINED BEFORE TO BE DONE." Acts 15:18 "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world"

If Judas was a good guy who went astray, How was it prophesied he would betray him for 30 pieces of silver, cast into the potter's field and his position would be vacated?

CAB: God's foreknowledge does not mean micromanage. It was planned from the time of the Fall in the Garden that Jesus would come to redeem mankind.

Life is a test, not a lottery. We are not a dream in God's mind. Not everything that happens is "God's will." God can "work all things together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose" without turning us all into robots and becoming the author of evil.