DJC49 wrote: Ephesians 1 4"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" 5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:..
Romans 9 speaks of Esau and Jacob, that Jacob was destined, selected, not Esau. Why? Jacob LOVED GOD, and was fitted to God's purpose.
Deists believe God created the world, then left it to drift along any old way--an extreme from Calvinism; but Deism and Calvinism have much in common, a hopeless fatalism, that God is aloof and humans are helpless blobs in a sea of mystery.
Bible teaches God always intervenes in affairs on this earth, that He knows everything, He is everywhere. I believe God picks our parents, time of birth, is always with us, answers prayer, more.
I said closER that Mormons. I'd say closER than what passes for Christianity nowadays also. I've caught a few sermons of Farrakhan's on YouTube, and he preaches almost entirely from the Holy Bible. The Koran is a mishmash, and I don't think many Muslims really know it or read it that much actually. The Bible has the power. Farrakhan has way more insight into the NWO and the wiles of Satan than what you hear over the so-called "Christian" pulpets. I'd rather listen to Farrakhan personally, than the megachurches any day of the week.
Hatemongering against peaceful, law-abiding, God-fearing Muslim people and their families, supporting gangster bankster wars of destruction against their prosperous countries across the ocean, nations with no armies or navies and few to no arms --
It's a disgrace. God will judge America. It's coming. It's also prophesied in Jeremiah 50 and 51, Rev. 16, 17 and 18.
The Bible tells us who our enemy is. If the U.S. is going to side with the NWO and the antichrist and those who hate Jesus and want to depopulate the world for the personal benefit of their special chosen selves, it's NOT Christian, and people who support this are also NOT Christian.
Michael Hranek wrote: When the "thread" through your postings is essentially a propaganda smear to put the burden of keeping ones salvation on what they do, instead of Biblically trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation..
The propaganda around here is that anybody who tries to serve or obey God, heed Biblical instructions in righteousness, warnings of pitfalls, note what pleases God and what does not..that such a person is NOT REALLY A CHRISTIAN! That only people who do NOTHING, gush how much they love God, is a real Christian..
This is Fatalism, not accurate, anti-biblical.
The "propaganda" you accuse me of are the very words and teachings of Jesus, the plain words of scripture!
You can't take the whole big thick Bible and throw it in the trash and call that being a "real Christian."
I'm not a Fatalist Calvinist, just a Bible Christian. If this place is full of 5-Pointers and I'm in the minority, truth doesn't go by polls!
I can read the Bible and think for myself. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to open up the scriptures. I don't wrest, read into, or take away from scripture; practice harmonizing scripture as a whole.
If there's nothing to talk about, why have a religious forum? Why have a brain? Why have a Bible?
penned wrote: when Christian groups push world wars based on their eschatology, you bet it is an issue..the witness of Christ is marred.
Indeed. I'm wondering if you've considered Jeremiah 50 and 51, and Daniel 8 that talks of the goat representing Greece (ie the U.S.) flying all the way around the earth without touching, and attacking Persia (Iran) and destroying it. Have you heard of the crazy rumors on the Net that Iran is coming with 50 battleships to attack the US? Is that stupid or what? Iran has no Navy, no Air Force, and is coming with two rust buckets and 30 soldiers to protest the U.S. holding war games off the shores of Iran.
I am ashamed to be an American. I don't care if I am hauled off to a FEMA camp to get deprogrammed (won't happen) or killed. This country has lost its soul, and God is going to judge it. Read Jeremiah 50 and 51 and see if you don't agree it's talking about the U.S.
Not to mention the descriptions in Rev. 16, 17 and 18. That's the U.S. too.
Our day is coming, and it doesn't look good. The U.S. is the Beast stomping all over the earth devouring, and the harlot driving is the Jews and apostatized Judaized Zionist (wannabe Jews) Christians.
John for JESUS wrote: Jesus is Lord! Muslims don't share the same reverence for the savior that Christians do! They only consider Him a prophet and of lower rank than Mohammed at that.
This is not accurate, don't know where you get such ideas.
Fact: Koran teaches Jesus was born of virgin, by "word of God", was taken bodily to Heaven, and is coming back to destroy the antichrist. (Wish more Christians believed half as much in Jesus as that!)
Fact: Muslims believe Muhammad was a mortal man, NOT taken alive into Heaven, was born of an ordinary man and woman.
Muslims are close to being Christian, closer to Christian in doctrine than the Mormans are, for example. And Muslims believe in the Holy Bible more than the Mormans who also have extra-Biblical "holy books" way more wacky than the Koran, that they put ahead of the Bible.
The Muslims do put the Koran ahead of the Bible where they say the Bible has errors. Islam is a false religion, but then so is Calvinism. Heresies are everywhere you turn in the Christian church. Muslims are good people.
Since Judaism despises Jesus and Christianity, and Jews at war with the world, why do Christians join with Jews against Muslims? This is EVIL. Does Christianity stand for the antichrist and NWO?
Dopey wrote: Some of the threads at SermonAudio that get involved in Biblical prophecy and other Biblical things kind of remind me of a Mack Sennett silent comedy movie. Those threads are kind of like watching Fatty Arbuckle walk into a room to say something and then have a pie thrown in his face.
Pot calling the kettle black? Aren't you the one who promised a big network of Bible "puzzle pieces" to prove Jesus is coming any moment to whoosh you away so you'll never have to suffer before the Tribulation and antichrist comes? And why do you call yourself Dopey? Is that supposed to be a take-off on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs?
As far as the mean-spiritedness, I was attacked from the minute I came on, told to haul my carcass off this forum, that I had no right to be here. Heresies are in the mind of the beholder, and the five-point Calvinists who think they own this place need to back off. This is not Geneva, Switzerland, and burning people at the stake who don't agree with Calvin and his Institutes is no longer legal.
Also irritating are the bigots who accuse people of being (shudder) female and need to therefore butt out of the forum, or the warmongers chomping at the bit to blow up some more Muslim families across the ocean. Disgusting.
John UK wrote: John 15:4-5 KJV 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Jesus says, "Abide in me, and I [will abide] in you. The bearing of fruit is totally dependent on being connected to Christ by faith. I am unable to bear fruit except I abide in Christ. Without Christ I can do nothing. Therefore the person who is not bearing Christian fruit, needs to hear the gospel and be converted, not be told to bear fruit from an adamic nature.
The person who is no longer abiding but used to abide does not need to hear the gospel. They need to repent, if possible, and come back to Jesus per the Prodigal or per the 5 foolish virgins whose lamps went dry and got caught in that condition. We never know when we're going to die, and if we're not ready we die in our sins. Not something to laugh about. It can happen to anyone.
That's enough posting for me for today. Nice talking with everyone (almost).
John UK wrote: Now then Cab, you wanted to look at the True Vine and its branches, yes? Okay. John 15:1-2 KJV 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. If the branch bears NO FRUIT, he takes it away. This tallies with the first three types of soil in the parable of the sower - NO FRUIT. But what happens if the branch bears SOME fruit, which tallies with the good ground hearer? ..some 30 fold, some sixty, some an hundredfold.
To harmonize Jesus also taught we are responsible to ABIDE in him, or we will dry up and get broken off and burned. Jesus says without him we can do nothing. The word "abide" is present continuous. We might abide just fine for awhile, but if we don't continue to do so, we WILL dry up. The 5 betrothed virgins whose lamps went dry ONCE had full lamps burning bright. Ergo, don't quench, grieve, insult the Holy Spirit away, or you will be twice dead, like David, Peter, the Prodigal, in danger to die in your sins. If you take the NWO Mark to buy and sell, you've sold your soul, no second chance. If you deny Jesus, he'll deny you. We're in a war for our soul.
Helps wrote: Everyone from the UK is John UK, because he was cloned 60 million times.
How does one even begin to deal with mind numbing ignorance like this. Just goes to show that error can be stated in a very few lines but the truth takes more space to explain. Probably why forums like this are such an attraction to heretics like this Corner worshipper.
How about pick one of my 5 points, pick any one of them, and voice your objection.
The "mind-numbing ignorance" you accuse me of is Bible scripture and Bible examples and the teachings of Jesus. Do you never have a rebuttal to the scriptures I bring up or even my interpretation of them? Nothing but name calling and mocking of both me and of the scriptures themselves? That's the best you can do?
My so-called "ignorance" is so "mind-numbing" to you that you can't offer even a half-hearted rebuttal to any of the clear Bible points I offered?
John UK wrote: Let us begin at the beginning, Cab. The first thing is to get you saved.
T- I will never believe in the totally unbiblical doctrine of total depravity!
U - Nor the ridiculous and devilish doctrine of unconditional election.
L - Nor the bloodless, Limited, wrath-of-God-on-Jesus, no-double-jeopardy, paid-in-advance, License-to-Sin atonement.
I - Nor that I have no choice to say yes or no. If irresistable grace were true, Jesus would not have wept over Jerusalem.
P- Perseverernce or preservation of the saints, aka OSAS, aka Eternal Security is a lie. Ask Judas, Solomon, Annanias and Sophira, lazy servant, 5 of the 10 betrothed virgins, backslidden servant, and many more examples of scripture.
I believe the Bible, not the Institutes or the megachurch or the pastor$ for hire, "apply here." It's the people who are arguing with me, who mock the teachings of Jesus and wrest scriptures to make them agree with the infernal TULIP, who are in trouble and don't realize it. Just preaching and promoting TULIP is enough reason to go to Hell, according to the Bible. Or preaching that the Resurrection is past, which is another horrific beloved heresy of this forum. Teachers receive a more severe damnation if wrong.
John UK wrote: You cannot be serious! Do you REALLY think that JESUS-IS-SAVIOUR.COM is a Calvinist website??!!
Stewart is a Calvinist, rabid OSAS all the way, why he HATES Dan Corner. All Calvinists know Point 5 rests on points 1 through 4, that if you take away one of them then the whole (il)logical system falls apart.
Stewart also believes in Total Depravity and probably Unconditional Election, a self-confessed 4 pointer. He'd object to Limited Atonement and Irresistable Grace, but probably believes in bloodless penal atonement (no double jeopardy, license to sin, paid in advance) per UK John.
OSAS is obvious HERESY!
Ezekiel 18: 20The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die (spiritually).
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and commiteth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousoness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Helps wrote: We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession Eph 1.13 Do you understand what a seal is? How can something given as an earnest of our inheritance be taken away? Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever.
Are you sure you are not UK John? Yes, we can lose the Holy Spirit, as Jesus taught:
1. Abide in the vine or we will dry up, get broken off and burned. 2. Keep our lamps full of oil (ie holy spirit), be ready, if we die dry we will not be resurrected per Romans 8 and Jesus' teaching on the 10 virgins. 3.Keep your first love or Jesus will spew you out of his body. He wants us either hot or cold, and a dried up Christian is nauseating. 4.The Holy Spirit is indeed our seal of redemption, and if we grieve, insult or quench the Spirit away and die in that condition we have died in our sins. Many examples in scripture of people who were once saved and that very thing happened to them: lazy servant, backslidden servant, Hymaneus and Alexander, Solomon, Judas, more
John UK wrote: A good article with links to Corner's own websites is found URL=http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/dan_corner.htm>here bro. Or google Dan Corner and take your pick of all the sites condemning him a false teacher.
More excuses to ignore the Gospels. All condemning Dan Corner are Calvinists. What do you expect? Calvinists murder Bible Christians (ie Dort). CARM and David Stewart look for any little flaw to condemn Dan Corner, but the man is righteous, does not compromise, won't sell out, and he's a humble man who serves God to the utmost of his ability 24/7. He and his wife have no children, and I think they both work regular jobs, go out street preaching. Dan Corner will NEVER get a big TV or radio forum because his message is counter to the world's system.
Charles Finney was another preacher like Corner, and whoever said Finney was like Billy Graham has got to be kidding. Graham is a Calvinist, easy believer, Freemason, sell-out, preach 45 minutes and head out the door. Finney preached for a solid week to his audience, taught them to count the cost, that being a Christian was not easy, gave invitation on day 5. His converts LASTED. He was the most annointed evangelist in our history.
John UK wrote: Jonah 2:1-5 KJV Can you picture the scene? Jonah was inside the fish's stomach,.. black and darkness, like hell. Jonah even called it that.How come Jonah didn't die within minutes? Because God loved him. Was God shaping up this true prophet that he might be a better prophet? Yes. Did Jonah continue to make mistakes at Ninevah? Yes. Did Jonah get angry at God? Yes. Why did Jonah repent in the fish?
Jonah was not a street drunk picked out of a hat to be a robot prophet if God pushed the right buttons. Jonah had faith, was a righteous man, but disobeyed God's command to preach to the Ninevites who he hated, rather how Christians today hate Muslims.
But consider that Jonah took responsibility for the storm and troubles on the ship, and demanded the captain and sailors throw him overboard in order to save themselves and the ship. That was an act of love and bravery, and shows the kind of man Jonah was. God doesn't choose junk.
Life is indeed a test.
As to God working in us to perfect us for his good work, that's all true, but requires our cooperation. If we quench, grieve or insult the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (our seal of redemption) will LEAVE us. Jesus, Paul, Jude, David taught that. We are commanded not to quench the Spirit.
Michael Hranek wrote: .. our attitude towards God as some imagine faith exists so they can obligate God to giving them what they want (escape from hell?) versus faith exists to do the will of God (so we can serve Him who died and rose again for us)
If fear of Hell and desire for Heaven were not a reason or incentive to strive to enter the narrow gate, then Jesus would not have taught so much about it. If it were a shame and a sin to fear God and fear Hell, then tell that to Jesus, who taught us to fear it and to fear God. Faith means believing God, yes? But you are here mocking and sneering at the very idea that anybody should take God seriously and fear Hell, fear God.
Solomon wrote 3 books of the Bible, and now he's in Hell. Maybe if he'd not taken his soul for granted, he could have obeyed God, avoided pitfalls he was commanded to avoid (ie marrying pagan women)..and not ended up as he did, in spite of having seen God twice, and given more temporal blessings than anyone in history.
The Bible accounts of the lives of others is written for our example, to help us. How can your conscience not bother you to be speaking against the plain teachings in the Bible?
Our motives for serving and obeying determine our rewards, not our salvation.
John UK wrote: Test? The fruit was produced by nature, when the seed was planted into good soil. Where on earth did a test come into it?.. the first three types of soil produced no fruit. ..the first three types of "soil hearers" did not have faith at all.
Not so. Jesus taught the Word so we could be on guard for pitfalls: Heresies to steal the Word, persecution to wither our faith, and riches and the cares of this life to distract so we BECOME unfruitful, as 3rd example was once fruitful but stopped being so.
Jesus taught for our spiritual benefit, not just to hear his own voice. Bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God, and the Word is able to make us "wise unto salvation."
If instruction in righteousness, the teachings of Jesus are of no use, if we're just naturally good or bad, then we don't need a Bible, don't need Jesus, don't need God. We're just a rock, a blob, God's toy.
If so, then why would God be FURIOUS for not serving him? Matthew 25:14, the parable of the lazy servant. If God throws us into outer darkness, says, "You WICKED and SLOTHFUL servant..and "cast ye the unprofitable servant into OUTER DARKNESS..weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Does it make sense for a "sovereign" God to be furious with plastic toys?
Michael Hranek wrote: Here is a link to "Why I'm a Christian" BTW Let me warn you this young man is likely to shock you in an attitude that is likely foreign to thoughts of Salvation in our present day, and if you are willing may hopefully convict you of something far better than the (quote) Christianity you may be experiencing right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3h6EIDMVQQ
I watched it. You want me to copy this young man's reason for being a Christian, which is to rant about how much he loves and respects Jesus?
But you want to rename Jesus Yeshua, when the Bible says his name is Jesus? You don't think God knew how he wanted to write the Bible, and made a mistake in writing in Greek and not Hebrew? This you call loving and respecting Jesus?
And you proudly mock me for standing on and defending Jesus' teachings? Jesus said to fear God, to fear Hell, to avoid the pitfalls, and admonished his own disciples they were in danger of Hell if they didn't get over their pride. Jesus said if we deny him, he WILL deny us before the Father (that means Hell). He taught many other things which you think we should ignore?
There's more to being a Christian, loving Jesus, than emotion and nice talk. God measures our love by our obedience.
John UK wrote: If you take Jonah the prophet. He started out well and then started being disobedient to God. The Lord said go north and he went south. According to you, Cab, he was lost and bound for hell. Not so. God had called him to go preach to the Ninevites, and he went and preached to the Ninevites. But between the call and him going, he had to spend three days and nights in the belly of a great fish. This is God's grace in action. The gifts and calling of God "are without repentance". This means that God does not change his mind concerning his people whom he has called... And it is God who is glorified by our works, wrought through Christ, for without him we can do nothing.
Mostly agree. The gifts and calling don't mean salvation. To whom much is given much is required. Many are called, few are chosen. When God gives abilities and opportunities, we are duty bound to use them in His service. If not, if we die fruitless, God will furiously throw us into Hell, as Jesus taught about the lazy servant. Does anyone really think Jesus was just KIDDING about that?
If Jonah had not repented in the fish's belly, called out in faith to God, he would have died in the fish and gone to Hell. After that, if he reneged and died unrepentent? Hell.
Where are you wrote: Where are you with the test? What's your score, eh? What 50%, 60%, 65%, 85%, 90%? And what do you need to score to pass, eh? Much rubbish about it all being a test. Nothing from Scripture to back it up and no answers to the above important questions. Clearly you don't believe in Salvation by Grace and so you're not even a Christian. You're a legalist!
Well, read UK John's post below if you want to know the test. He says according to the Parable of the Sower that it's FRUIT, FRUIT, FRUIT.
Good fruit. Some fruit. No fruit, no Heaven.
What do you say about that? Does that sound like God expects NOTHING? What did Jesus teach about the lazy servant who bore NO FRUIT? Jesus said the lazy servant would be thrown furiously into Hell, and that the Master would call him a Lazy, worthless, good-for-nothing servant.
Does that sound like there's no test, nothing expected of us? Is that how Paul was, how the early Christians were, going around afraid to do anything for God lest they be accused of trying to work their way to Heaven?
It's ludicrous. Anybody who lets people in their church tell them this, that it's a sin to try to please God or to serve God, meaning you're "not really saved" ... please, just don't be a dupe.
silly girl wrote: YOU DON'T BUILD DOCTRINE ON PARABLES SILLY! Any fool can interpret the parables to derive any meaning they want by missing the one point that was being made. You do this all the time. So its not the parable or Jesus' teachings that are being disparaged. Its your false interpretation. LIAR!
The Gospels are central, defining part of the entire Bible. Jesus authored the whole Bible, but the 4 Gospels contain his actual words and actions while he walked among us when he came to earth as a man. To mock, denigrate his teachings, to exalt any part of scripture above his words and teachings is shocking, to exalt Institutes above them is EVIL.
One woman seminary grad used to post here and once said she'd rather have her children read porn than the parables of Jesus. The things others say here is in that same vein.
Jesus never joked or exaggerated. There is no greater teacher than Jesus. Nobody warned more about sin and Hell, urged people more to seek Truth, Heaven.
His teachings are crystal clear, and that's exactly why the church avoids them because they make it impossible to teach ear-tickling easy believi$m, Fatali$m, imminent rapturi$m and all the other pop Chri$tianity fairy tales.