1517 wrote:
So Peter was made alive, died, resurrected himself, died again, resurrected himself nick of time before he died. John UK is right, you really do reveal your ignorance of Christ's finished work and atonement...completely man centered, not a mention of GRACE.. damning. We are really without hope according to that theology..a man would have to lock himself up in a room and be in perpetual repentance..classic case of " DAISY" faith" He loves me, he loves me not.."

Bible says we're in a race, with a prize at the end for those who actually do run their race, and even some of THOSE will miss the prize! But those who aren't even running, who dropped out and think they've already won the prize, are DECEIVED. The Bible warns a LOT, DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

1517 wrote:
Get real,
Your paranoid history lessons are more suitable for some late night, fringe AM radio call in show. So go back to bed in your Mom's basement and wait until the show starts, then call in with your treasure trove of Reformation scandals and deceptions.

These are the kind of things that CAN and WILL cause us to die spiritually, to grieve, quench and insult the Holy Spirit away. God forbid we die in that condition and find ourselves like 5 of the 10 betrothed virgins who went dry and weren't ready to meet Jesus.

1517 wrote:
CAB,.. UNBELIEF is THE sin that started it all. It is the devil who asks true believers HATH GOD SAID that no one can pluck you out of His hand? ..that it is by grace alone, and not of works, that saves you? ..that salvation is permanent and doesn't require effort on your part to maintain it?

The Bible repeatedly teaches IT IS POSSIBLE to die spiritually; to be alive spiritually and THEN TO DIE -- per the prodigal son, per Peter (who denied Jesus 3 times), per David who sinned, and others. In fact all Jesus' disciples fell away, Judas permanently; the rest repented and came back. Peter sinned again later, was into the Judaizing stuff; Paul rebuked him. Peter repented and died saved: a zealous, devoted and obedient servant.

Life is a race to run, a TEST not a lottery; THOSE WHO OVERCOME shall inherit all things. If we die in our sins, we die dry per parable of 10 virgins. We're warned not to grieve, quench, insult the HS.

SF fron TX wrote:
Penny and CAB, do you have a list of resources/recommendations on the kind.of stuff y'all are talking about?

Gary Null, AIDS, lots of documentaries, Google.

House of Numbers, an excellent documentary. Google it.

1517 wrote:
CAB wrote:
"Sanctification? What about damnation?"
There is the difference between those who know the GRACE of God (John UK) and those who feel they must earn it (CAB).
"...blind leaders make works a power FOR salvation and a stronghold for faith. Thereby man loses his unmixed and purehearted concern for his neighbor. Everything is aimed at man's own salvation, to profit himself; it is twisted up toward God and heaven."
Martin Luther (Luther on vocation).

Jesus came to defeat and take sins away, not to put a cover over them, so God can't see the sins, as though God were stupid and blind. God sees everything, nothing is hidden, and we will give an account for every word. Remember the judgment scene Jesus describes a few times in the gospels where Christians are standing shocked to find out they are being thrown into Hell. But Lord, didn't we, didn't we? Dumbfounded. Jesus said, depart you WORKERS OF INIQUITY (sin).

John UK wrote:
Sure, if your eye offend, pluck it out. Is this what you're saying? We must take steps, having responsibility for our sanctification? Well I don't know anyone who has not been taught that the world, flesh and the devil are three opponents to be fought against. We are in a spiritual war against enemies, and must fight. What's your beef? Are you claiming hose who are arminians understand these things, and the rest don't? Besides, your theory that the first three hearers were saved and subsequently lost just does not hold water.

And the first three examples of the Parable of the Sower were indeed saved. The first example is open to debate since the word was stolen by heresies before it could take root, but the other two examples the seed took root and grew up into a real plant, the third example even bore some fruit.

AIDS means the immune system is overwhelmed. One of the best ways to get an overwhelmed immune system is to submit to a test that will get you an HIV diagosis and then be foolish enough to take the high priced drugs (that the taxpayer will foot the bill for). Those very drugs will put you in an early grave.

There's lots of information online, Gary Null's documentaries. The documentary House of Numbers is excellent. I was dumbfounded to learn there is no HIV virus that is "catching." It's all a big lie, a big money-making RACKET.

Modern medicine is all harmful, other than trauma surgery to repair birth defects and injuries, set bones. The rest is murder by medicine, death by a thousand cuts.

The biggest threat to health is doctors, hospitals, pharma companies, and health insurance.

Eating soy causes infertility, babies fed soymilk will not develop properly -- boys may have undeveloped testicles and girls may develop too fast, too early.

People must take responsibility for their own health, stop listening to authorities working for the Illuminati.

Take initiative to get clean water (no fluoride). Avoid food: soaked in weedkiller, GMO food, processed food with mystery ingredients. Aspartame, MSG, all poisons including OTC drugs and pharma drugs prescribed by American idiot doctors (allopaths). Doctors murder over a million U.S. citizens a year.

Our body is our temple. Avoid fake food, poison Pharma meds which they all are (even if you're not paying for it and Obama forces somebody else to buy it for you)...also fluoridated water, govt. subsidized nasty GMO corn, soy, canola, all the fake cheap vegetable oils in the grocery store, fake butter, fake anything. Eat real food you fix yourself from scratch. Milk, butter, vegetables, bone broths. Check out WAP Foundation.

Pot causes permanent short term memory damage, birth defects and infertility. Schizophrenia. Makes people stupid and lazy, also delusional..which is why it's called wacky tobaccy and loco weed.

Unprofitable Servant wrote:
I agree all things need to be tested against the absolute truth of the Word of God, but I think it not good to disdain books. Paul used them and they are very useful tool to the saints.

GsTexas wrote:
CAB, I have to go to work so I don't have time to refute your poor interpretation of the verses I posted. Ill leave you to the others. I pray our Lord and saviour opens your eyes to the truth.

You could use some manners.

CAB: The word "are" is present tense. It is possible to be in Christ Jesus today and not so next month. I've listed many such examples, all ignored.

GS: Ephesians 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation: in whom also after ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise:
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of his glory."

CAB: The Holy Spirit is our seal, for sure. But it's easy to go dry; check my former postings.

GS: John 6:39 "And this is the father's will which hath sent me, that ALL which he hath given me I should LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up again at the last day."

CAB: Everything that's God's will does not happen, and vice versa. It's not God's will that "any should perish" but that "all should have everlasting life." But that is not going to happen.

GS: Hebrews 10:14,17 "For by one offering, he hath perfected FOR EVER them that are sanctified

1517 wrote:
According to CAB's interpretation of the sower and the seed parable, anyone who HEARD the word is saved. That is great everyone! Just grab our Bibles and start reading it out loud and all within earshot will be saved...But, of course the minute they sin....hellfire!
John UK,
I commend your patience and step by step articulation of the parable. You are sowing, others have watered, let's pray God will give an increase to CAB.

It was lies that came in later that stole the word, replacing the Word, the Truth, with lies.

So let's not split hairs because what we're really looking at is how a person can gain and lose their salvation. That's important stuff to know, which is why Jesus taught this parable and why it is told in three separate gospels in our Bible.

The point of Jesus' teaching in this parable is that there are different ways where people can lose their salvation. Yes, bearing fruit is a requirement, as Jesus taught about abiding in the vine.

What will cause a person who is on their way to a Christian life to dry up and not bear fruit? Lack of understanding so that they get caught up in another false religion, and will never "get it" -- never understand, or have a chance to understand God's truth, because something else has replaced God's truth. Novices lacking in understanding, or people caught up in a false religion from childhood and knowing nothing else.

Persecution. The Bible says all Christians who live righteously for Jesus will, without a doubt, suffer persecution, and be hated by the world. Many can't bear up under this and fall away. They can't stand to be excluded, insulted, rejected for the name of Jesus.

Riches and cares of this world. So easy to get caught up in "civilian affairs" and not be the soldiers and ambassadors and servants of God we promised God we'd be.

The point of the Parable of the Sower is that it shows how people come and go into faith in God.

The first example of the Parable of the Sower did not UNDERSTAND enough to believe. But the seed was sown in his heart, and if lies and heresies did not steal it away then it would grow and take root.

The first example we can split hairs over.

But 2nd and 3rd examples were definitely saved, but lost their salvation. Number 2 was a living plant that grew up from the seed, the Word, and it was flourishing until persecution caused it to wither away. But consider: How many Christians do you know who will put up with any inconvenience or persecution for Jesus, who will suffer for his name? Will be like the martyrs in Revelation who "loved not their lives so much as to shrink from death," rather than to deny God.

And the third example was choked out by the deceitfulness of riches and cares of this life, and had at one time born fruit but stopped bearing fruit when thorns choked it out.

The fourth example went on to bear fruit of different amounts, and only these went to Heaven.

GsTexas wrote:
Only the one who bears fruit is saved, which is harmonious with multiple other verses in scripture like for instance Matthew 7:16-20

John UK wrote:
You say the first example lost his salvation? Where did you get that from?

Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that receiveth seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundred-fold, some sixty, some thirty.

Christopher000 wrote:
Thanks US, I'll have to give it all some thought and do my own homework because I know they were big questions which sort of throw the discussion off track and back it up too far.

I know that people who actually read their Bibles and know what it says and have read with an open mind and let the Holy Spirit enlighten them--will not fall for old wives tales and Fatalism and reading a whole religion into one word, without checking into what the rest of the Bible says.

John UK wrote:
Let us then do a study from the gospels.
Mark 10:17-22 KJV
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

1. Are we saved by keeping the 10 commandments?
2. Are we saved by selling everything that we own and giving the proceeds to the poor, taking up a cross, and following Jesus?

1517 wrote:
Faith in Christ is all sufficient. The Bible tells us to "examine ourselves" to see if we be in the faith.
CAB, You present this statement and then turn and say a man must this, that, and the other. If Christ is sufficient, why are you adding the this, that, and the other?

The race is NOT over, we have NOT won the prize, and this is going to be a bumpy and difficult road, and a narrow and strait gate to enter Heaven. Jesus said most people WILL GO TO HELL, even many on the right road won't push hard enough to enter the narrow gate.

People who love the truth don't take a phrase or verse here or there and build a religion to suit themselves. If we really want to go to Heaven and escape Hell, a good place to start would be to read the four gospels with an open mind.

Barry from KY. wrote:
Your are right John, added to the fact that contraceptives are so convenient. It's a shame really, I'm 55 years old and some of my grandest memories are of my 5 children growing up!