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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  11/22/2014
SUNDAY, JAN 5, 2014  |  500 comments  |  1 commentary
Evangelicals Find Themselves in the Midst of a Calvinist Revival

Calvinism is a theological orientation, not a denomination or organization. The Puritans were Calvinist. Presbyterians descend from Scottish Calvinists. Many early Baptists were Calvinist. But in the 19th century, Protestantism moved toward the non-Calvinist belief that humans must consent to their own salvation — an optimistic, quintessentially American belief. In the United States today, one large denomination, the Presbyterian Church in America, is unapologetically Calvinist.

But in the last 30 years or so, Calvinists have gained prominence in other branches of Protestantism, and at churches that used to worry little about theology. In 1994, when Mark Dever interviewed at Capitol Hill Baptist Church, a Southern Baptist church in Washington, the hiring committee didn’t even ask him about his theology.

“So I said, ‘Let me think about what you wouldn’t like about me, if you knew,’ ” Mr. Dever ...


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News Item2/9/14 7:55 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
Final post on penal substitution:

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Cf

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

CAB insists that his dying had nothing to do with our sins. He was not punished for our sins?! Then what is the Gospel? What is it we are to preach to the lost?

May the Lord have mercy on her miserable soul. She is still in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.

Repent CAB before the Lord visit you in judgement for cheapening the Gospel of His dear Son of whom we read:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That is the Gospel!

500

News Item2/9/14 6:15 PM
Preserved  Find all comments by Preserved
On Eternal Security, hear the words of the Lord Jesus:

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. Vs. 28 And I give to them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:29 My Father which gave them me, is greater than all: and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Dan Corner aka CAB tries to pluck them out of God's hand. Every time he enters a debate to tear down his brothers and sisters in Christ. Instead of debating abortion, evolution, or some other worthy cause , he tears down God's flock instead.

Jesus even said, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone that seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:39, 40

So all that God draws will come to him and God's will is that they have eternal life and his omnipotence or all powerfulness assures that they will be kept and will never be lost.

499

News Item2/9/14 5:27 PM
Helps II  Find all comments by Helps II
cont/d..

10] The nature of Christ’s death can only be understood in terms of penal substitution.

His was no ordinary anguish and pain. His was no ordinary death (Matthew 26:37; Mark 14:33-35; Luke 22:44; Hebrews 5:7). As Turretin says, “Such things can have no other adequate cause except in vindicatory justice demanding from Christ a most full satisfaction for us” (op. cited, pages 434,435). A scripture comes to mind: “Is it nothing to you all ye that pass by? behold, and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow, which is done unto me, herewith the Lord hath afflicted
me in the day of his fierce anger” (Lamentations 1:12).

As Wesley expresses it:

For what you have done
His blood must atone:
The Father hath punished for you His dear Son:
The Lord, in the day
Of His anger did lay
Your sins on the Lamb, and He bore them away

Contrary to what the heretic CAB is trying to teach on this forum Penal substitution is NOT a theory of the atonement, IT IS the atonement!

498

News Item2/9/14 4:56 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
cont/d..

9] Our salvation came about by “reconciliation.”

That is, satisfaction being rendered to the offended party whose justice must be fully met and, as a result, God’s most righteous displeasure with us on account of sin has been removed (Romans 5:10; Colossians 1:20; Romans 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:10).

After a most learned treatment of "propitiation” in both Testaments, Dr. Leon Morris makes this telling point: “The Scripture is clear that the wrath of God is visited on sinners or else that the Son of God dies for them. Either sinners are punished for their misdoings or else there takes place what Hodgson calls ‘that self-punishment which combines the activities of punishing and forgiving.’ Either we die or He dies. ‘But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us’ (Romans 5:8)” (The Apostolic Preaching of the Cross, page 213).

More later

497

News Item2/9/14 2:44 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
CAB wrote:
Comparing Blood Atonement w/ key TULIP Bloodless Atonement heresy.
If you are capable of a civil, reasoned discussion, consider there are two aspects of Christ's redemption.

The blood of Christ cleanses all sin. It gives life to a dead SOUL.... regeneration, quickening, circumcision of the heart, new birth.

Is that it? What about the redemption of the purchased possession on the last day? That which will be transformed from mortal to immortal.... from corruption to incorruption? That which He bought at a price? What price? Does the blood of Christ cleanse the filth of the flesh or a guilty conscience?

What did Jesus endure to insure the redemption of the BODY of believers at the second resurrection?

No doubt you think you've got it all figured out but, alas, you don't. And in the mean time you keep up with your false caricatures to the point that most just ignore you hoping you'll go away and you take that as infallible proof that you've got it all figured out. Ha!

Tell me plainly. By what means will Jesus redeem your mortal body? If you can't then let's have no more of the "bloodless atonement" nonsense.

496

News Item2/9/14 12:19 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
Not that I expect CAB to answer any of these points because they are just too devastating to her heresies, but here's more:

7] The very concept of a “surety” Hebrews 7:22) requires one who performs a service or pays a debt on behalf of another (Gen 43:9; cf. Philemon 18).

8] There is no doubt that God inflicted “chastisement” or “punishment” upon Christ (Isaiah 53:5,10; Zechariah 13:7). God “condemned sin in the flesh” (Romans 8:4). “The Punishment which God meted out to Christ was the very punishment which was due to his people. (Arthur Pink, The Atonement, page 93). Pink proceeds to quote Dr. John Brown: “To the enlightened eye, there is found on the cross another inscription, besides that which Pilate ordered to be written there: The Victim of Guilt. The Wages of sin” (ibid.)

More later

495

News Item2/9/14 5:17 AM
Helps  Find all comments by Helps
CAB wrote:
You can post up all this stuff, 3 posts in a row, from somebody's writings, not have to wait for somebody else to post, and this is done by changing your ID a little bit? Or how are you doing this? A special app? Just wondering. Not that I'm interested in breaking any of the posting rules here myself, but just wondering how you do it.
Typical false believer!

Instead of addressing the verses posted up she wants to know how to post up more so that we can all read more of her drivel!

494

News Item2/8/14 9:07 PM
CAB  Find all comments by CAB
Helps II wrote:
cont/d 6] The fact that His death was a.. More later
You can post up all this stuff, 3 posts in a row, from somebody's writings, not have to wait for somebody else to post, and this is done by changing your ID a little bit? Or how are you doing this? A special app? Just wondering. Not that I'm interested in breaking any of the posting rules here myself, but just wondering how you do it.
493

News Item2/8/14 8:22 PM
Helps II  Find all comments by Helps II
cont/d

6] The fact that His death was a “ransom” (Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:6; cf. Romans 3:24; Ephesians 1:7) shows that the sinner’s freedom has been bought by the payment of a required price. Christ paid the price, an equivalent for the sins of men (1 Peter 1:18,19; Revelation 5:9).

In his classic work, The Atonement and Intercession of Christ, William Symington concludes, “The passages, thus, without controversy, prove the fact that salvation is effected by the blood or death or the Lord Jesus Christ, which is offered to and accepted of by God, as a perfect satisfaction, a proper equivalent for the sins of such as are made partakers of redemption. They are not their own, but BOUGHT WITH A PRICE. Can anything more distinctly express the idea of satisfaction, which is just the idea of atonement?” (pages 185,186).

More later

492

News Item2/8/14 8:19 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
cont/d

5] It is said that Christ became “a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13).

Since the curse of the Law was the penalty of sin (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10), this can only mean that He was charged with sin and was judged as if He was a sinner - although, of course, He Himself knew no sin (see: 2 Corinthians 5:21).

More later

491

News Item2/8/14 8:15 PM
Helps II | UK  Find all comments by Helps II
cont/d...

4] In Isaiah 53:7, it says “he was oppressed” - literally, “it was exacted”

- that is, Christ bore the penalty which the Law demanded. B.W. Newton comments, “it must be very strongly stated that the commencing Hebrew word (‘it was exacted’) indicates that the suffering was the result of judicial infliction from the hand of God; because He who so suffered stood as one who had voluntarily undertaken to bear penalties which the Law of God ‘exacted.’ The word (nagas) indicated not merely oppression, but oppression that was the result of a demand. It means to have payment of a debt sternly executed, and is thus used in Deuteronomy 15:2,3, ‘Every creditor that lendeth aught to his neighbour shall (on the seventh year) release it; he shall not EXACT it of his neighbour or his brother, because the Lord’s release hath been proclaimed. Of a foreigner thou mayest EXACT it again, etc.’” (Thoughts on the Whole Prophecy of Isaiah, pages 265,266).

More later

490

News Item2/8/14 7:58 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
cont/d...

3] His death is described as a “sacrifice” (Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:26, etc.)

With respect to sacrifices, guilt was transmitted and, in consequence, life was taken as the penalty due (see: Leviticus 1:5). As Robert Dabney says concerning the Old Testament sacrifices which prefigured Christ’s sacrifice, “these bloody sacrifices were intended by God to symbolise the substitution of an innocent victim in place of the guilty offerer; the transfer of his guilt to the substitute; satisfaction for it by the vicarious death, and the consequent forgiveness of the sinner (Leviticus 1:4; 14:21; 17:11, et passim.)” (Christ our Penal Substitute, page 88).

More later.

489

News Item2/8/14 6:44 PM
Helps | UK  Find all comments by Helps
On Penal Substitution

1] Christ is said to “bear” our sins (Isaiah 53:1 Peter 2:24).

To bear sins is not only to assume responsibility for them, but also to undergo the punishment due to them (Leviticus 20:17 cf. vv.18-20). Francis Turretin observes: “to bear sin is the same thing as to bear the punishment of sins” ('Institutes of Elenctic Theology', volume 3, page 429).

2] The penal nature of Christ’s death is implied some key references to it.

He was delivered “for our offences” (Romans 4:25), the preposition “for” in the Greek is dia - “because of, on account of.” This can only mean that these offences were the cause of His death.

The same meaning is in the propositions of 1 Corinthians 15:3 – “for our sins” (huper – “in behalf of, for the sake of”), and 1 Peter 3:18 “suffered for sins” (peri – concerning, because of), and Matthew 20:28 “a ransom for many” (anti – “because of, instead of.”

More later

488

News Item2/8/14 6:44 PM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
CAB wrote:
Comparing Blood Atonement w/ key TULIP Bloodless Atonement heresy.
If you are capable of a civil, reasoned discussion, consider there are two aspects of Christ's redemption.

The blood of Christ cleanses from sin. It gives life to a dead SOUL.... regeneration, quickening, circumcision of the heart, new birth.

Is that it? What about the redemption of the purchased possession on the last day? That which will be transformed from mortal to immortal.... from corruption to incorruption? That which He bought at a price? Does the blood of Christ cleanse the filth of the flesh or a guilty conscience?

What did Jesus endure to insure the redemption of the body of believers?

No doubt you think you've got it all figured out but, alas, you don't. And in the mean time you keep up with your false caricatures to the point that most just ignore you and you take that as infallible proof that you've got it all figured out. Ha!

Tell me plainly. By what means will Jesus redeem your mortal body? If you can't then let's have no more of the "bloodless atonement" nonsense.

487

News Item2/8/14 6:39 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
CAB wrote:
Comparing Blood Atonement w/ key TULIP Bloodless Atonement heresy.
The atonement that saves has, of necessity, to be a death caused by loss of blood. Hanging would not do it. Poisoning would not do it.

CAB, the way you speak about the wonderful Saviour, and what he has done for sinners, is so hard and cold, that I shrink back from reading your posts. There is no love in your words, no delight in Jesus Christ, no love for sinners like me, no love for anyone caught up in what you call and believe to be false doctrine. You propagate a message, but you do it in an unbiblical and harsh way. You will never gain any adherents, nor will any here come over to your serious errors, especially your works-salvation.

I exhort you as a fellow sinner, to see that you have failed to keep the law, and that this schoolmaster (the law) will lead you to Jesus Christ, that you might be saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. I have to turn in now, but I shall pray that the loving God will love you and show you these things, and bring you up out of the pit and set your feet on a rock, with a song of praise in your mouth, praising God for his wonderful grace and mercy.

486

News Item2/8/14 6:31 PM
Robert Preston  Find all comments by Robert  Preston
CAB wrote:
Comparing Blood Atonement w/ key TULIP Bloodless Atonement heresy.
Penal (Bloodless) Atonement: Key unbiblical heresy undergirding all 5 points of TULIP and OSAS--says God picked people to be saved and arranged to personally pour out wrath on Jesus on the cross and 3 days in Hell, one by one, for every single "Chosen's" sin, calculated and tabulated beforehand. Is a variation of Catholic heresy that has Jesus still suffering, writhing, atoning on the cross.
More lies CAB? You sure resemble your father who is a liar from the beginning.
485

News Item2/8/14 6:22 PM
CAB | No-TV Bible Christian  Find all comments by CAB
Comparing Blood Atonement w/ key TULIP Bloodless Atonement heresy.

Penal (Bloodless) Atonement: Key unbiblical heresy undergirding all 5 points of TULIP and OSAS--says God picked people to be saved and arranged to personally pour out wrath on Jesus on the cross and 3 days in Hell, one by one, for every single "Chosen's" sin, calculated and tabulated beforehand. Is a variation of Catholic heresy that has Jesus still suffering, writhing, atoning on the cross.

****

Blood Atonement (Key Christian, Biblical Truth): The blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin, creates a new creature in Christ, saves the soul who repents and trusts Jesus. One drop is all-sufficient for the sins of the world, to any sinner who comes to Jesus in sincere repentance for salvation or forgiveness of sins after salvation. On the cross just before He gave up the ghost Jesus said, ‘It is FINISHED’. The job was done.

Jesus did suffer above and beyond his bloody wounds, “in all points like as we,” but it is his wonderful blood that cleanses us from sin, saves our soul. Philosophy/logic not needed to explain this; it's Bible: "The Life is in the Blood," the wonderful amazing blood from our Holy Creator God and Lord, our Savior Jesus Christ. Even one drop is all-sufficient for the sins of the world.

484

News Item1/17/14 9:50 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Problem is CAB
1. Has a very low view of sin (Romans 7:13)
2. Has wrong views of the blood atonement (Hebrews 9:14)
3. Does not comprehend the holiness of God (Isaiah 6:1-7)
4 Does not comprehend the wrath of God upon sin (John 3:36; I Thessalonians 1:10)
5. Thinks that humans are more powerful than God (I Peter 1:5)
6. Has a Deist view of God as one who helplessly watches the world go by. (Psalm 50:21)
7. Does not listen to sound council (Proverbs 23:9)
8. Cannot see that the true believe obeys from a heart of love. (I John 5:2)
9. Her alleged fear of the Lord is learned by precept from the false prophet she follows. (Isaiah 29:13)
Is describe by our Lord in Matthew 17:23b ...thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
May God open her eyes to the truth lest she perish in way.
Good post US!
The one man in the earth who the Lord commended as righteous saw himself differently when he saw the Lord. Your Isaiah 6 quote reminded me of that.

Job 42:5-6 KJV
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

483

News Item1/16/14 7:51 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Frank wrote:
Excellent brother. I am going to copy and look up all your verses and I hope whoever CAB is, does the same.
I looked them up and they were excellent. To imagine that a sinful person like myself can add to the finished work of Christ and the holiness, grace and mercy of our heavenly Father in any way is utter nonsense. My goodness, you made that so clear.
Hey brother Frank, I hope all is well. Thank you for your kind remarks. Only hope for CAB is a mighty work of God in her heart. But we serve a God who is able to do abundantly above all we could ask or think.
482

News Item1/16/14 7:12 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
Problem is CAB
1. Has a very low view of sin (Romans 7:13)
2. Has wrong views of the blood atonement (Hebrews 9:14)
3. Does not comprehend the holiness of God (Isaiah 6:1-7)
4 Does not comprehend the wrath of God upon sin (John 3:36; I Thessalonians 1:10)
5. Thinks that humans are more powerful than God (I Peter 1:5)
6. Has a Deist view of God as one who helplessly watches the world go by. (Psalm 50:21)
7. Does not listen to sound council (Proverbs 23:9)
8. Cannot see that the true believe obeys from a heart of love. (I John 5:2)
9. Her alleged fear of the Lord is learned by precept from the false prophet she follows. (Isaiah 29:13)
Is describe by our Lord in Matthew 17:23b ...thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
May God open her eyes to the truth lest she perish in way.
Excellent brother. I am going to copy and look up all your verses and I hope whoever CAB is, does the same.

I looked them up and they were excellent. To imagine that a sinful person like myself can add to the finished work of Christ and the holiness, grace and mercy of our heavenly Father in any way is utter nonsense. My goodness, you made that so clear.

481
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