Mike wrote:
Still doesn't put either after regeneration
As you can see from the verse you quoted, repentance is unto life, not the other way around

Before any sinner can walk by faith (and repent) - the Holy Spirit must regenerate them. Life must come before action.

Otherwise the Faith and repenting would be the work of an unsaved sinner, who has not got the ability to make a spiritual decision. 1 Cor 2:14.

Principle 4 of the draft code states that teachers must "proactively challenge discrimination" and "promote equality and value diversity in all their professional relationships and interactions". ..."

Looks like Orwells Big Brother in charge of our "minds" and how we "think" is beginning to re-educate the masses with "newspeak" - and with an added PC touch, "newthink"

Satan's in charge of UK.

WHAT you've only noticed????

You have only to look at the way their own countries are run to see that clearly.

But why then do they come over here to change us and our lifestyle and mindset?

Because the dozy PC Liberals are handing society over to them on a plate.

John UK wrote:
You see the longsuffering of the Lord? The time factor? The definite need for men for men to repent or they will perish?

Don't forget that *Repentance* is a *GIFT* of God - Just like Faith is.

WCF
1. "Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace,[a] the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.[b]"

[a] Zec 12:10; Acts 11:18.
[b] Luke 24:47; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21.

John UK wrote:
You are becoming doctrinaire pew view. That is like asking,

or if you've lost your favourite fishing rod..........
Then.............
I will be gracious and put it down to hardship...

BTW Could your "growth time" be hastened with fertilizer?
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Mike
Your
"longsuffering to usward"
Refers to the whole process of sinners coming to Christ.
Not the development of saving fluence in the soul of the sinner.

God is longsuffering - patient, because He is a God of love and mercy and compassion. Thank goodness because His children are a right bunch of little devils. And when you look at the visible church you can see why He needs patience. Some of them are trying to work their own ticket would you believe?
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John UK wrote:
Could it be there has to be a conception followed by some growth towards birth. And could it be that this conception is a sovereign work of God in the soul some time before the birth itself?

Or (again) are you trying to inveigle another wee human element in the production process of the saved?
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John UK wrote:
This is where you are wrong in saying that God *MAY* use means. It is not "MAY" it is "DOES" use means, the means he has ordained.

Candle lit wrote:
So, you would agree with Romans 10:17 . ."So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
Scripture interprets scripture when taken as a whole.

Also do you establish here that Cornelius did NOT have faith before Peter arrived?

NB These verses refer to Israel and indeed go on to speak of Moses and Isaiah(v19/20)
Working up to the final verse; "21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."
Therby showing that this was detailing the disobedience of Israel. See also v16.

John UK wrote:
a] You are deliberately avoiding the simple teaching of the Bible that God has chosen to work through means;

b] Your caricature of those who believe God in his word commands us to preach the gospel to every creature, and that whosoever believeth and is baptised

c] These 'too many folks around here'? Who are you talking about? Would it not be better to name them and engage them in debate

d] Are you a Fatalist? ......
Do you have any concern whatever for those of your fellow countrymen who are enslaved to the devil

b] Nothing against preaching the Gospel John. And as your buddy Spurgeon would say "Calvinism IS the Gospel"

c] Name and shame eh John? You are being a bit harsh arn't you? Don't the popish style free willy's know their crime? If you ain't a real Calvinist you Don't know the Bible's Doctrines of Grace.

charles m wrote:
yes ive noticed that as well, being a baptist doesnt neccessarily make you a calvinist, in fact id go furthur, ive never yet met a baptist that was a calvinist but WBC are firmly calvinist, i know this because Ive heard the teaching.

As for WBC and Freddie I think he is more of a plonker than a calvinist.

________________

Mike wrote:
Fred Phelps barred from the UK? And yet Rowan Williams is welcomed there. I wonder which one has the most potential for damaging the nation?

Joe T. wrote:
I believe from God's perspective Cornelius was elect and predetermined to be saved before the foundation of the world, but was saved in that point in time upon the hearing of the Word.

Too many folks around here require the "human element" to be in place before God is allowed to act.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
1] You aksed "Will a person who does not have saving faith be heard by God in prayers?"- presumably expecting the negative

2] Let us say you are addressing a sunday school class of 5 and 6 year olds. What do you tell them? That God would hate their prayers so that they should not even bother? Or do you encourage them to pray, with no expectation that God will hear them?

3] Same with repentance and faith. If God will not hear the cries of those to whom you preach then you dare not tell ....

ml wrote:
There was a work of the Spirit in Cornelius but he was not yet saved.
Do you grant there was a work of the Spirit in Cornelius before Peter?
DJC49, Thanks

But may I add - If we are saying that the HOLY Spirit did some work in Cornelius prior to Peter's arrival - Are we then saying that the Holy Spirit left until Peter came and preached - Then returned to work faith in Cornelius's heart?

Coincidentaly it is mentioned that “at the ninth hour of the day he was praying in his house,” the hour of evening sacrifice among the Jews, when such as were not present at the temple prayed at home, as we read, “Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour."

This would suggest that Cornelius had at least some training in the OT religious ways.
He was obviously praying to the God of Israel since HE is the one who answered his prayers.
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Calvinist Understanding

I am not denying the need to preach or receive the Gospel.

DJC49 wrote:
Quite frankly, we don't know WHAT Cornelius was taught or to what extent was his knowledge. All we know with certainty is that he was devout, feared God, gave alms, and always prayed. As a matter of fact, we don't even know how long he had been stationed in Caesarea as a centurion and to what extent and for how long he had affiliated himself with Judaism. He was not a proselyte, BTW.

DJC49 wrote:
All who you mentioned (Anna and Simeon included) were under the OT economy, not the New. And all who you mentioned definitely heard the Gospel in its shadowy OT form: the LORD [JHWH] was their salvation and the Messiah was yet to come! The OT folks toiled under types, shadows and promises, yet, they all heard the Gospel.
Now as for Cornelius and Lydia:
BOTH were gentiles under the NT economy; therefore, the OT form of the Gospel was no longer valid SINCE the Messiah had indeed already come!
(didn't you know that?)

Michael Hranek wrote:
Psalm 25:8
Good and upright is the Lord;
therefore he instructs sinners in the way.
Oops! Perhaps you didn't notice that this verse says sinners NOT elect. Maybe you might want to think about this, God instructs not just the elect (I believe He does) but sinners, even those wretched disobedient souls who truly deserve nothing but His wrath, in the way.

DJC49 wrote:
Obviously, I was referring to those of the hyper-calvinist variety who believe that Lydia (and Cornelius, for that matter) didn't need to hear the Gospel and who was somehow regenerate and saved without it.

Mike wrote:
God bless you as well, Pew View.
As for man being born a sinner, I suppose we could go round about it. (so many issues, so few characters)
It's interesting that the term "born in sins" was used only by the Pharisees of the man born blind and healed by the Lord.
John 9:34
"They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out."
Are you saying you agree with the principle they upheld to justify themselves?

And I suppose we could wind up at David's Psalm 51 too. Then there is Eph 2:3 - flesh - are we ever not in it? and "by nature" children of wrath? Job 14:1 Born of woman then v4 unclean? Thats before we go on to the infamous "heart" of the mortal?

The "god of this world" is fighting back harder these days.

2Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the *god of this world* hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, ((WHY??))= lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

But don't worry GOD is still in charge of the outcome.

DJC49 wrote:
Just one thing I'd like to know:
How can one judge another by their fruits over the Internet?

Remember this...

DJC49 wrote:
"... why go through all the trouble? Paul was just showboating anyway as Lydia, the seller of purple, pink, and plaid was saved before the foundation of the world. She should have stayed home and baked a nice strawberry-rhubarb pie." [New World Hyper-Amplified Super Deductive Study Bible]

So who would differ from them??

We will just have to rely upon your expertise on this one, DJC49.

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Hey Michael from Endicott
Your, quote,
"I hate real Calvinists post"

When do you think you'll leave the Roman Catholic dogma completely?