John UK wrote:
I agree!
pew view................

D.G.Usted wrote:
What a sick *joke* pew view.

Eph 2:8
1] Grace is not the gift of God. Although it is from God - But ONLY
from God. Man can't work grace.
2] Salvation is the God ordained end result of Christ's work and
sacrifice - This too is ONLY from God. Man can't save (work) himself.
3] Since Grace and Salvation are outside the work of any human faculty
or attribute and can ONLY be of God - Then in that sense they are not a
GIFT from God to man to use.
4] Eph 2:8 refers to a gift. Also V9 rejects any work of man, human
effort or faculty can contribute to the work of God who alone can save.
5] But this brings us to the ONLY human attribute which man can
realistically suggest is "his own" - NOT Grace! NOT Salvation! - BUT
faith.
6] These verses then declare that anything from man, which man might
claim, (obviously NOT Grace or Saving) is NOT part of this equation.
This "claimed" attribute of man can then only be FAITH.
Therefore the GIFT provided by God is FAITH.
7] But as V9 states NO work of man is works towards salvation.
Man thus NEEDS the GIFT - of Faith - from God to be saved.

GRACE is the free unmerited love and favor of God, the spring and source of all the benefits men receive from him.
And if by grace,then it is no more of works. Rom.11.

The Favorable influence of God; divine influence or the influence of the spirit, in renewing the heart and restraining from sin.
My grace is sufficient for thee. 2 Cor.12

Thus because of God's free Grace HE chooses to provide the means of salvation which is the GIFT of God.

And since the Grace obviously only can come from God - Then God's gift is *FAITH* - not a human faculty.

Praise and glory to God alone. Amen!

Mike wrote:
I, too, hold you as a brother in Christ, Pew View. Even though you are wrong about the mode of baptism.
Just remember, I was raised up for the very purpose of telling you this.

John UK wrote:
Spurgeon/Wesley stuff

Oh well we must forgive.

Michael Hranek wrote:
I do believe Spurgeon (and Moody too for that matter) to be a follower of Christ NOT a Disciple of John Calvin.

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

John UK wrote:
It is interesting that the circumcision mentioned is conditional upon repentance, i.e. repentance must come first.

As per usual they put man's decision before God's, who is expected to trail along somewhere behind happy that the sinner picked Him.

The Deuter 30:6 verses has zero reference to repentance as a pre-requisite to circumcision of heart.
It is Bad exegesis to suggest this.
The two chapters Deuter 29 and 30 1-10 are about Covenant, not about humans exercising their volitional rights.

John UK wrote:
Shows that present-day British Calvinism is nothing like the historic mainstream

As I stated earlier even the heretic Wesley tried to inveigle a temporary scrap of grace borrowed from Scripture to try to make works based religion look possible.

John UK wrote:
It is interesting that the circumcision mentioned is conditional upon repentance

John UK wrote:
#2 In what way do you think the new covenant was far far more glorious than the old, except it be that EVERY believer is anointed with the Spirit, they are led by the Spirit, they are taught by the Spirit, they are convicted by the Spirit, they are indwelt by Jesus Christ (by his Spirit) and on and on.....

#3 Oh and another question, please:
If regeneration is such a crucial thing that determines a persons eternal destiny, where in the old testament did God teach about this?

Why were the people back then so different that they required no spiritually internalised effort on the part of the Holy Spirit?

#3 Why did God need to teach it?

Jesus said to Nicodemus.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit.

= THEN said to Nicodemus
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and KNOWEST NOT THESE THINGS?

John Yurich USA wrote:
Gore is insane and psychotic for stating that minors do not have to listen to their parents. Minors have absolutely no rights whatsoever and their parents have absolute total control over them.

"I am a Christian. I am a Protestant. I am a Baptist," told Newsweek in an interview in 2002..."

Mike wrote:
It appears there is a difference in the operation of the Spirit OT to NT.

Did God - who in the NT revealed the absolute need for the Holy Spirit to call, regenerate, convert, work faith, draw sinners.....
Did God who is immutable, then relinquish the chosen sinners of Israel to unbelief, reprobation and hell.
Or did HE work/enable spiritual "concessions" to the elect of Israel?

Romans 9.6.....they are not all Israel which are of Israel"
This teaches that some obviously were elect and saved. Do you seek to establish that the Holy Spirit had NOTHING to do with this?

If So....

WHY then did HE "need" to come in the NT times?
IF there was an alternative means of regeneration at work in OT saints?

Who circumsised hearts in the OT?
Who changed hearts eg Ezek 11:19, 36:26?

1Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the SAME Spirit"

The "Lefty" Liberal UN, (like the EU) has been dominated by the left agenda for years now. They have been on the trail of spanking and curtailing authority in the home and family for years too. Just as anti-discrimination law means remove all authority moral and ethical standards in society, - then they have tried to control the mind of the parent also.

For Big Brother read UN
For PC "Big Brother" read Big Genderless biped.

This sort of puerile nonsense is in the same league as don't call female parent mummy!

John UK wrote:
He anointed certain ones to speak to people.

He anointed some to write under direct inspiration of God.

He gave direct revelation to some

Now a wee question.
Did the Holy Spirit as you say doing all these "annointing" jobs, did He do it from inside the sinner? - or did He use some method from a distance eg magic wand or something?

Also John if verse 1Cor 2:14 is true in NT times why is it not true for OT times....
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
AND
IF it is true then verses 10, 11, 12, 13 must also be true of the sinner and the Spirit's work in the sinner. AT ALL TIMES IN HISTORY
eg.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 .....even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
13 .....not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

DJC49 wrote:
Indeed I am.
Here's another clue as to what track my thinking is on concerning God's Mercy:
Did God show any mercy BEFORE the fall of Man? Seems to me that ALL of the angels who rebelled were summarily cast down from heaven -- not one of them obtaining mercy. They received Justice and were not able to obtain Mercy! Or am I off base in this assessment?
Do you see where I'm heading with this one?

1Tim 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

I know its pretty tenuous, but is God's mercy reserved to His creatures picked for the purpose rather than randomly applied?
Perhaps reserved in an omniscient way?