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BIBLE, SOCIETY, TECH, PERSONAL SURVEYS | FAVORITES CREATE NEW

All Categories |  Bible & Theology Issues
1,728 total votes have been cast on this survey | 2,249 user comments  ( edit survey )

What does the Bible say concerning election?
Created: 3/16/2005 | Last Vote: 8 years ago | Comment: 9 years ago
Disclaimer: These surveys are created by PLUS or FULL Members of the site and, unless specified, are not created by the SermonAudio staff nor do they necessarily reflect the site's position on any topic.

 •   Unconditional Election. God elects those soley out of His sovereign right to choose who he wants
  72% | 1,248 votes

 •   Conditional Election. God elects those who meet the conditions of faith and repentance
  20% | 344 votes

 •   I do not know. Help me understand Yamil !!!!
  2% | 34 votes

 •   Who cares.
  1% | 10 votes

 •   Other
  3% | 49 votes

 •   No answer. Skip this survey, I do not care to vote on this topic.
  2% | 43 votes

   

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Survey8/11/10 11:21 AM
Alcove  Find all comments by Alcove
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DO ELECTION and PRETERITION RELATE to THE ORIGIN of SIN?

"The sublapsarian preterition, which is that of the Westminster Confession and all the Reformed creeds, supposes the fall in Adam and the existence of sin to be prior, in the order of nature, to both election and preterition. Election and preterition, consequently have reference to the continuance of sin, not to the origin of it. All men fall in Adam, without exception; so that there is no election or non-election to the fall itself, but only to deliverance from it. Both election and preterition suppose the fall, and are inexplicable without it as a presupposition. Men are elected from out of a state of sin; and men are passed by and left in a state of sin. 'They who are elected [and they who are passed by] being fallen in Adam,' etc., Con. iii. 6. Election stops the continuation of sin; preterition permits the continuance of it." (W.G.T.Shedd)


Survey1/11/09 2:17 PM
TheolTok  Find all comments by TheolTok
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"It is absurd to think that anything in us could have the least influence upon our election. Some say that God did foresee that such persons would believe, and therefore did choose them; so they would make the business of salvation to depend upon something in us. Whereas God does not choose us FOR faith, but TO faith. "He hath chosen us, that we should be holy," (Ephesians 1:4), not because we would be holy, but that we might be holy."
Rev. Thomas Watson

"Let us then ascribe the whole work of grace to the pleasure of God's Will. God did not choose us because we were worthy, but by choosing us He makes us worthy."
Rev. Thomas Watson


Survey10/24/08 4:10 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
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Election is according to God's foreknowledge:

"Elect according to the fore-knowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit..."(1 Peter 1:2)


Survey10/24/08 3:51 PM
pew view  Find all comments by pew view
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"We believe that, all the posterity of Adam being thus fallen into perdition and ruin by the sin of our first parents, God then did manifest Himself such as He is; that is to say, merciful and just:
merciful, since He delivers and preserves from this perdition all whom He in His eternal and unchangeable counsel of mere goodness has elected in Christ Jesus our Lord, without any respect to their works;
just, in leaving others in the fall and perdition wherein they have involved themselves."
(Belgic confession)

Survey10/8/08 9:04 PM
Icon O'Clast | Oz  Find all comments by Icon O'Clast
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The Scriptures clearly teach election and predestination. They just as clearly teach man's responsibility and accountability before a Holy Creator. This is a dichotomy, not a contradiction. For God to be the God we profess, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Eternal and Holy we cannot reduce Him to a predicter of the future who elects according to 'foreknowledge'.
You may have heard this before - but in all things theological there is the equation 100% + 100% makes 100%. It is fully Divine, fully human, simultaneous with the Divine having the preeminence. Christ is both fully Divine and fully human simultaneously. Yet there is One Christ. The Scriptures are both fully Divine and fully human in their authorship. Yet there is one Scripture.

Likewise our salvation is 100% of God and from God, yet we are 100% responsible. But our responsibility does not denote ability - and here we part ways with Arminianism who claim that God would not command what we cannot perform. This is what set Pelagius off against Augustine.

To understand this we MUST understand and ackowledge what the Bible teaches about man's natural state. Is he capable, according to the Bible, of "choosing for Christ?" Is he able to love God and try to please Him? The Bible says NO! Dead in sin, heart of stone!


Survey10/8/08 6:18 PM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
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RtG wrote:
As Icon O'Clast teaches below, when the Holy Spirit has entered the heart then they are born again.
________________________
Correct. And when they are born again of the Spirit, they are saved.

Survey10/8/08 6:07 PM
Faithful Remnant  Find all comments by Faithful Remnant
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Only the elect will make it to heaven. They are the ones God foreknew, predestinated, called and justified. The Apostle Paul goes on to say in Romans 8 that these will also be glorified....saved forever.

Survey10/8/08 11:24 AM
RtG  Find all comments by RtG
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Michael Hranek wrote:
as apparently a lost person under the preaching of the Word of Christ and conviction of the Holy Ghost can in my words desire
Ah now Michael
Remember you've left the papists now, so don;t fall back into the old RC trap of salvation by works.

If as you say the person is under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, then there is a universe of a difference between them and those who do not have the indwelling of the Spirit. Where God has begun a good work then they are elect and drawn to Jesus, by His grace and none of man's sinful effort is required, to that end. As Icon O'Clast teaches below, when the Holy Spirit has entered the heart then they are born again.
________________________

"Icon O'Clast"
Is your moniker from the Irish branch of the family O'Clast......


Survey10/8/08 9:07 AM
Icon O'Clast | Oz  Find all comments by Icon O'Clast
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Michael Hranek wrote:
Rev 22
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
I do hope you note that word desires. It is an interesting word as apparently a lost person under the preaching of the Word of Christ and conviction of the Holy Ghost can in my words desire to be forgiven and saved from their sins.
So you think that someone can come under the conviction of the Holy Ghost, make a decision for Christ - yes or no - and be regenerated on the basis of that decision? Interesting. So was the person spiritually dead in trespasses and sins while doing this or temporarily revived?

Of course it says whosover will, or whosoever comes or whosoever desires. Your people will be volunteers says the Psalm. But before you will,desire and come your heart has to be changed from stone to flesh first. It's called regeneration, being born again. Before that you don't will or desire to have anything to do with Christ and you don't come.


Survey10/7/08 10:12 PM
Michael Hranek | Endicott, New York  Go to homepageFind all comments by Michael Hranek
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RtG wrote:
Now if Jesus defers to His Father on "will" why do some who call themselves Christian seek to establish the will of the sinner at the most crucial point, - viz coming to christ - as the operation of the will of man?
RtG
Your question get's into the heart of making a religious fantasy of predestination. God is truly sovereign and without His work none would be saved but does a person's will or choice having nothing to do with this most important issue?

Apparently the Holy Spirit Himself who btw teaches us (genuine born again believers) and guides us into all the truth doesn't think quite like some 5 Point Calvinists, for example:

Rev 22
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

I do hope you note that word desires. It is an interesting word as apparently a lost person under the preaching of the Word of Christ and conviction of the Holy Ghost can in my words desire to be forgiven and saved from their sins.

And of course this will beg the question why would a "Calvinist" pit their opinion of what they think the will of God should be against what it truly is?


Survey10/7/08 7:09 PM
Icon O'Clast | Oz  Find all comments by Icon O'Clast
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Hannes van As wrote:
First of all, God in His all-knowing, knew who would accept Him thus their names are written in the Book of Life even before the beginning of the world (foundations of the earth). It’s a difficult concept to grasp, because our human futile minds will never be able to grasp the fullness and timelessness of God. Remember that God is Outside of Time – He is NOT constrained by it, thus He can see the End and Beginning at Once – and He proclaimed the End from the beginning. Thus He already knows who will choose Him and who will not.
You say well that it is difficult to grasp this, because you made no sense at all. Either God determined the end from the beginning OR He foresaw it! Your God is little more than a heavenly soothsayer, a fortune-teller, who is able to accurately predict what will happen and can act accordingly.
The God of the Bible has DECLARED the end from the beginning. He does not just see it, He ordains it. He does not re-act to foreseen events, but acts always and only according to His express purpose. He is not the effect, He is the cause.

If Romans 8:29 is forced into your theology, then Romans 8:28 is the most hollow statement in Scripture.

Think about it!


Survey10/7/08 9:55 AM
RtG  Find all comments by RtG
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On sovereignty of God.

Did Jesus believe in a sovereign God?

Jesus teaching is; I came not to do my will but the will of God.
We may argue that Jesus 'will' is in complete harmony with His Father. Yet He makes this point, always deferring to God.

EG:: Matt 12.50, 26.39, Luke 22.42,
John 4.34, 5.30, 6.38/39.

Jo 5.30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Now if Jesus defers to His Father on "will" why do some who call themselves Christian seek to establish the will of the sinner at the most crucial point, - viz coming to christ - as the operation of the will of man?

Note the Holy Spirit also defers to God.
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13.


Survey7/26/08 10:28 AM
Hannes van As | South Africa  Contact via emailFind all comments by Hannes van As
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First of all, God in His all-knowing, knew who would accept Him thus their names are written in the Book of Life even before the beginning of the world (foundations of the earth). It’s a difficult concept to grasp, because our human futile minds will never be able to grasp the fullness and timelessness of God. Remember that God is Outside of Time – He is NOT constrained by it, thus He can see the End and Beginning at Once – and He proclaimed the End from the beginning. Thus He already knows who will choose Him and who will not.

Survey7/13/08 12:50 PM
Aidan McDowell | Las Vegas, Nevada  Contact via emailFind all comments by Aidan McDowell
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RB:

You’ve asked some important questions, but I’m not sure you’ve answered them. It’s surely true that our presuppositions are critical in our attempt to understand anything. The question is this: what is the source of our presuppositions, especially those which govern our thinking and talk about God and what we can know about Him?

It’s tempting to speculate about what God “must be like,” and allow our thinking to preempt Scripture, which in fact is the sole source of whatever knowledge we have of God.

The kicker is that Scripture does not tell us everything there is to know about God, only what He wants us to know and what He deems necessary for our salvation. It follows, then, that Scripture may contain “gaps” in our picture of God. Nor can we assume that reason can or should close those gaps. As a result, certain passages in Scripture may ostensibly conflict with others. If we had all the “pieces” of the puzzle in place, the inconsistencies would disappear. But we don’t. And we must simply rest content with what knowledge it has pleased God to make available to us. We are not at liberty to ignore any part of Scripture. But the need to impose ORDER on God’s revealed Word is reason’s demand, not God’s. God meets our salvific needs, not our expectations.


Survey7/12/08 9:56 PM
RB  Find all comments by RB
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Our underlying presuppositions are crititical when trying to understand anything. If we have a presupposition that God cannot be partial, and that God is outside of time, it will affect the way we view other scriptures. It is true that God has the right to do whatever He wants, but whatever He does cannot contradict His character or His Word. If God is not partial, how can He choose someone to be saved based on nothing the person does? Wouldn't that prove He is partial?

God cannot be partial.(Deut 1:17, 10:17, 16:19, Job 13:10, 32:21, 2 Chron 19:7, Prov 18:5, 24:23, 28:21, Acts 10:34, Luke 20:21, Rom 2:11, Gal 2:6, Eph 6:9, James 2:3-4, 2:9, Col 3:25, 1 Tim 5:21, 1 Peter 1:17, 2:23.
If election is unconditional, then we have contradictions in the Bible and all of the above verses have to be ignored.
Contradictions disappear if God is outside of time. Modern physics proves that time itself is a physical property that varies with acceleration and gravity. God is not subject to gravity and to its effects. God does not accelerate. He is omnipresent, outside of time. Space, time, and matter are irrevocably coupled. All three had a beginning.


Survey5/29/08 8:49 PM
Dr. Phil  Find all comments by Dr. Phil
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Neil wrote:
Rogerant, I think you conflated the 1677 (aka 1689) London Confession with the 1742 Philly one which is largely similar. It seems that Primitive Baptists prefer the 1644 Confession. Most modern anticreedal Baptists pretend these never existed.
Even Anabaptists (whom many Baptists pretend are their ancestors) had the 1632 Dordrecht Confession, which wasn't Calvinistic, of course.
Neil,

This one is new to me; I thought that the Primitive Baptists despised and denied having a confession of any sort. Ironically, they fail to see that their denial is a confession in itself.


Survey5/29/08 7:11 PM
Preacher  Find all comments by Preacher
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Luther rightly called this doctrine the hinge that would turn the church back to Rome. Even in confessing churches, such as the Presbyterian Church where I attend, there are many who swear to uphold the tenents of the confession but do not do so.

The Churches of the Reformation are drowning in a swamp of their own making. They talk like Arminians and worship like neo-pentecostals. The few that are crying out for the Old Paths are being politically side-lined or hushed up altogether.

I do believe it is almost time for another true Reformation.


Survey5/29/08 6:13 PM
The Lone Wolf | Crying in the Wilderness  Find all comments by The Lone Wolf
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Scripture is pretty clear that either your name is written down in the Lamb;s Book of Life from the foundation of the world or it is not.

Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev. 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

For those who think they get their name written down in the book of life when the make a decision for Christ, it might sound good, but it ain't bible.


Survey5/23/08 3:38 PM
rogerant | Saskatoon Canada  Contact via emailFind all comments by rogerant
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Minnow wrote:
rogerant
You're absolutely right! The "paperwork" of all these denominations is orthodox and evangelical. And I'm sure the Elect serve in all sorts of places, not to mention the Invisible Church.
But!! - That was really not the point in the post below.
Have a nice weekend.
Amen Brother

Survey5/23/08 2:55 PM
Minnow  Find all comments by Minnow
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rogerant wrote:
And what, this liberalism has not affected mainline Presbyterian, Christian Reformed,...........
rogerant
You're absolutely right! The "paperwork" of all these denominations is orthodox and evangelical. And I'm sure the Elect serve in all sorts of places, not to mention the Invisible Church.

But!! - That was really not the point in the post below.

Have a nice weekend.

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