diversity wrote: Mortals are "born" sinners they do not become sinners. God knows His Elect from the beginning indeed the very foundation of the world. "Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" Are you now suggesting that God cannot tell the difference between those whom He has created elect - from those whom He has not elected? Does God's foreknowledge work in your theory? Rom 8:29 For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." 1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father..." God Foreknows all mortals ~ The Elect being foreknown are obviously distinct in God's omniscience and foreknowledge from the non-elect. John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine."
diversity wrote: As the Baptist's theological father put it "Calvinism is the Gospel." (CHS) "Careful" - You really need to get into a Calvinist church. They will teach you to read Scripture in the way it was originally written.
CHS, the "Baptist's theological father"? What world do you live in. No, don't tell me. Let me guess
I don't think you will ever find anything in Spurgeon's writings which even mildly approaches double-predestination. If I recall correctly, he poured opprobrium on the hypers, who were some of his harshest critics.
As for your advice, (I am sure you are referring to Hyper-calvinists like you!) thanks, but no thanks. Been there got the T-shirt and still got the bad taste in my mouth Besides, if you are an advert for it ................. fill in the blanks yourself.
diversity wrote: Absolutely correct Lurker. This parable is really good Calvinism. "Good seed" = Elect of God. As we observe in the parable they are planted in a diverse world whereupon they will grow in Grace as the Elect of God and serve Him only. Note the reference to "seed" - thus planting which "BEGINS" the process of growing and flowering. NO human free will necessary. "Tares" = Satan's wee reprobates. We also note that Jesus teaches that Satan's tares planted with Satan's agenda, and in Satan's power the dominion of sin. Who as the Lord points out ..... "Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" God's Sovereignty and election/reprobation confirmed. John 3:16 Confirmed that ONLY the elect are loved. Who needs to love Satan's tares?
And there we have it friends! The indisputable proof of Calvinism in John 3.16! God's code written in parables so that only Presbys can understand it.
We have to wonder why all other Christians are so blind. Maybe we're also all tares?
Diversity, tell me did you spot in the parable indwelling by the Holy Spirit of sinners before belief?
diversify wrote: Don't worry about this Careful. The Elect know beyond doubt what Scripture teaches and means. ps. "World" does not imply everybody otherwise why constuct hell.
Then I'll take it that you cannot prove it beyond doubt. You hypers are all the same. Because you can't prove anything from the Bible you have to insist that the bible is written in code for the elect and then it follows of course that the elect all concur in everything and so they must be a narrow sectarian Presbyterian party blah blah....!
Mike wrote: The issue arose because Jim quoted "God hates sin, hates sinners." I disagreed with the concept, lest John 3:16 be meaningless. Should we think it pertains to the elect only, we need remember the elect are no less sinners than any,(For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, Rom 3:23) therefore the elect must be hated prior to conversion, accordingly. Naturally, this isn't true, so neither is "God hates sin, hates sinners"
Excellent points Mike. You put many to shame for their shallow thinking!
diversify wrote: Mike. You cannot say that about the "world" in that verse since it applies to the Elect only. These HE loves because of Jesus. Psalm 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. & V18-22.
Can you prove beyond doubt that 'World' cannot mean anything except the elect? Many disagree
GG wrote: Does God save robots? Are men, who are made in the image and likeness of God, mindless machines? God puts the choice of life and death to each individual and awaits their choice. But, only those who say "Yes" to God are saved.
GOD wrote it GG Quote.... Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Faith comes from GOD alone as a gift..... Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
And look GG NO works by you required.... 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
GG wrote: Jesus declared Peter to be the "Rock". All of those men who followed in his footsteps were also part of that rock. The Popes, be they saintly or evil, have played their part in history. Some will be praised by God and others damned. Still, they serve as his Vicars on earth until he returns. "You mean like the popish machinery does..." MyResp: No. I know fantasies are fun but please go back on your meds.
Now who is posting "fantasies" GG???
Peter never was the rock which Christ referred to. NEVER!
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, ***THOU ART THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD***
##==THIS (V16) IS THE **ROCK** GG.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
GG wrote: Exactly. And when the lives of certain men and women rise above the norm to levels of Holiness and self sacrifice that make them Christ-like, these people are presented as Sainting worthy of being an example to their fellows. The work in them is God's work. He is the potter, they are the clay. Go to any art museum. The master pieces are on display to lift men's hearts to God.
Graven images of idolatry .....
who steal the worship of God and His Christ.
Popes promotions by human means without the support of Scripture. Thus from an antichrist source.
Election is a work ONLY of God and By God before the foundation of the world.
GOD does not activate CHOICE by the sinners means and decision.
GG wrote: "No man comes to me unless the father draws him..."
Precisely GG But God does not draw His followers to the antichrist in Rome.......
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."