SteveR wrote: Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us
Ok Steve. But clearly you cannot identify idolatry and its abominable and sinful witness to the Christian.
Are you Christian???
Keep on supporting the evil unBiblical and idolatrous organisation if you will. But don't forget that is the road to hell not a Christian journey. God proved that in HIS Reformation in the 16th century.
I'm sorry you can't see the truth.
"1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2Peter 2."
For centuries the true Christian has perceived these warnings apply to the Roman Catholic fallacy.
SteveR wrote: Agree Mike, RCC has error. But so do just about all other churches. If you werent moved to abhor that cross dangling from the boys neck, I will guess your church as quite a bit of idolatry going on too. Ive seen conservative churches with Christmas trees next to the pulpit as they call Catholics idolatrous. Lutherans ...
Steve. Just in case you haven't seen the light on this point. It is not about the denomination with the least amount of errors. - Whereas it is about the elect of God who do not - do not - do idolatry and blasphemy which the historic range and extent of the RCC has demonstrated itself to be culpable and unBiblical of.
You have been literally supporting unBiblical idolatry and blasphemy as well as heresy in your continued support of the RCC. A Christian cannot do that!!
As Jesus has stated.... "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matt 12:30.
William Eugene Grimes wrote: Jim Jefferson Davis attended Transylvania College which is affiliated with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). It is not a Roman Catholic institution. Jefferson Davis belonged to the Episcopal church. He walked to St. John's Episcopal Church while living in Montgomery. President Davis's pastor in Richmond, Dr.Minnigerode wrote this: "He[Davis] never failed to be there unless he was sick or away from town." And if the Pope appealing to the Federal government for President Davis's release makes him an "almost Catholic" I pray that if you ever get thrown in jail unjustly, that Pope Benedict will appeal for your release. Then the same could be said of you. You need to go back and do your homework on President Davis. See if you can find out who Jim Limber was.
BytheBook wrote: The question that was asked and addressed by Jesus was about being saved. The advice He provides is in relation to this side of judgment day.
The advise to enter to the strait gate was given on this side of judgement day because on that side of the judgement day people cannot enter in. The passage moves from advise to what happens for those who do not follow this advise.
BytheBook wrote: Is it that God does not even call them. Why are they "not able" - IF they seek?
Your quote apparently disagrees with the Book. You use these verses without any real understanding.
The passage is talking about what happens at judgement day. At judgement day, those that didn't strive to enter the strait gate in their earthly life cannot enter the door come judgement day. God will tell those people to depart to Hell.
Man's ability to seek God in this life is proven by the word "Strive". It is a command assuming it can be done.
The words "are called" (italics) were added to 1 Cor 1:26. They were not called to preach b/c they were unsaved.
Luke 13:23-27 24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Rom 1:8: He is talking about the Roman world. His readers knew his context. 1 John 2:2's context is ...
1Jn 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins (the sins of the saved): and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (refers to the lost in general for we the elect are made to be not of this world).
1 John 5:19: He is telling us that we do not lie in wickedness; everyone else does. We are not of this world, so we do not fit in with the whole world (those of faith do not lie in wickedness).
If you are apart of the ungodly (which the whole world is), Christ died for you. "For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY." (Rom 5:6)
JD, you are exactly right. Calvinists have no desire to prove the truth. They are caught up in their own man made system.
Observation Post claims, "So 1 John 2:2 "whole world" (kosmos) contradicts the passages I quoted?" Sheer nonsense. God is reconciling the world (evey man) to himself. Some resist God's advances (including his own).
Rom 4:13: The promise that one day Abraham and his seed (descendents) would inherit the entire world was made of effect because their faith. Among the Hebrew seed, there would arise a Messiah could claim ownership over it all. As spiritual descenants of Abraham, we will rule and reign with Jesus over the whole world (Rev 5:10).
You need help. You said, "If rejection of the offer of salvation is a sin, and Jesus died for all the sins of all men, why is this sin not paid for?" His sin is not paid for because he did not receive it. You you reject a gift, you don't have it. Your past "sin" of rejection will be paid for only if you stop rejecting.
Observation Post, do you really think those verses proved Limited Atonement? If you think so, you are in bad shape.
Jesus died for the sheep just as He died for those who are not the sheep.
Eph 5:25 is a long shot. Jesus gave himself for the church...who would argue that? He also gave his life for those not in the church.
1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
To further prove Semi-Pelagianism... Psalms 53:3 â€śEvery one of them is GONE back: they are altogether BECOME filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.â€ť â€śThey are all GONE aside, they are all together BECOME filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.â€ť [Psalms 14:3]
Everyone was once a sheep. Sin, which age of accountability reckons, mutated man. Man went astray. 1 Peter 2:25 â€śFor ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.â€ť
1. Age of Accountability Isaiah 7:16 reveals that there is a time when children know to "refuse the evil, and choose the good.â€ť â€śFor before the children shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.â€ť [Isaiah 7:16] If man is never aware of good and evil, he is not a sinner. "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." [John 9:41] "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin." [John 15:22]
One's guilt for sin is proportional to their knowledge. James 4:17 says, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." An infant, yet to be conscious of the moral law which God writes in every heart [Rom 2:14-15], is not guilty of the law. Rom 4:15 states "...For where no law is, there is no transgression."
2. The wicked are estranged (go astray) from the womb. God did create man upright. Man goes astray on his own accord. Ecc 7:29 "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions."
3. "In sin did my mother conceive me." Sins of the mother. "In anger my father beat me" Whose sins?
Semi-Pelagianism is irrational to an irrational man.
1. Made needs life again (be born again) because he died when he sinned at the age accountability. 2. I thought you understood 1 Cor. 2:14. I guess not. Here is what it means. Man cannot of himself receive the things of the spirit, He needs the Holy Spirit first. Even you need the Holy Ghost to receive the things of the Spirit. That is why God sent the comforter down (to teach and to lead us to truth so that we know to receive the things of the Spirit). 3. Hell was created for the Devils and his angels. Its existence has nothing to do with what man does. Men are in Hell because they rejected the free gift of salvation (which is in effect rejecting Jesus). This free gift to all can only be made possible if Christ died for all.
Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Dr. Phil, whether you realize it or not, your false doctrines come from Greek humanism. They were fostered by neo-Platonists, Augustians, & Calvinists.
Every man can understand the Bible b/c God is making it that way. Deuteronomy 30:11-15 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Semi-Pelagianism fits in well with the concept that Jesus died for every man. God wants to buy back or redeem man from his sin. Have ever looked at those words, Reconciliation (to restore to favor or friendship), redemption (to buy back), Regenerate (to renew, retore, generate again). These are Semi-Pelagian terms.
In Ezekiel 18:4, God says that each human soul belongs to Himself until it sins. "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Dr. Phil, you need more than grace. I am confident I can help you.
Minnow & rogerant, Adam Clarke says of Eph 2:1 â€śDeath is often used by all writers, and in all nations, to express a state of extreme misery. The Ephesians, by trespassing and sinning, had brought themselves into a state of deplorable wretchedness, as had all the heathen nations; and having thus sinned against God, they were condemned by him, and might be considered as dead in law - incapable of performing any legal act, and always liable to the punishment of death, which they had deserved, and which was ready to be inflicted upon them.â€ť
What does it mean to be dead? Death in the spiritual context has nothing to with being able to respond to Godâ€™s call to salvation or not. Death in its spiritual context is separation from God. You should know that by now. We were dead b/c our sin sins separated us from God. Before the age of accountability children are alive. Paul says in Romans 7:9 â€śFor I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
No inherited death. All are born alive. Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:"
Minnow Rom 3:10-12 Calvinists don't think enough about these verses. These verses are saying that no one can understand or seeks on his own. In short, man needs help. Everyone knows that . God convicts people to respond. God enlightens man (John 1:9) so that he can understand (even John Calvin admitted to this).
Minnow & rogerant, Rom 3:12 actually helps establish Semi-Pelagianism. Reread the the verse. It says, "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;" This tells of a time of previous innocence. A time of no depravity. Man left the way. He BECAME unprofitable.
Rogerant, context means nothing to you. Ezk. 37 is talking about bringing the nation of Israel back together from captivity. This is not Calvinism.
Jesus died for all men. The Bible's semi-Pelagian theology does go with the previous statement.
Dr. Phil you never said where my argument is wrong. Furthermore, if you try, I will prove you wrong yet again. Nothing a Calvinist can send my way phases me. The Bible deals with error effectively.
Minnow, none of your Scripture proves Limited Atonement or Calvinism.
1 Cor. 2:14: Of course the natural man receives not the things of the spirit. Obviously he must receive the spirit before can accept his things.
John 15:5 Of course we cannot obtain salvation without Christ. He gets it started and gets it finished. We are like a drowning man. We call and He performs the work. Since Jesus died for every man, he lets man know that he is drowning in the first place.
Rom. 8:7 Yeah. Thats why man must get a new mind (Rom 2:14-15). He realizes he needs a new mind and is willing to get rid of it. The carnal mind is really only a regular mind (capable of coming to Christ) that is focused on carnal things (like sports or food). Sports and food are not bad. They are only bad if they supersede spiritual things.
rogerant, Some people call me semi-Pelagian, but I despise the term. I am a firm Bible believer and I identity with Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura). I give verses later tonight to rock your little world. You will believe as I do.
Michael Hranek, God hardened Pharoah's heart first. This hardening wasn't to salvation. It was a hardening "that he shall not let my people go." Ex 4:21
Dr. Phil, everybody already knows that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. I don't count this as quoting Scripture b/c Rom 9:16 does not prove your point. If anything it proves my point.
My point? Phil, read the verse slowly again. There is not a bone of Calvinism in it. 1. "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up" Its not for this purpose have I created you. Raise up to power. God can choose evil men for His purposes. 2. "..show my power in thee..my name might be declared throughout all the earth." God wanted all men to know Him. 3. God has mercy on those who love him and obey His commandments. God hardens those who ignore His conviction (you can't buy time with God).
Phil your statements are institutes. God hardened (perhaps passively, it doesn't really matter) Pharaoh's heart temporarily (never towards salvation though). Pharaoh would had to continue to harden his heart to keep it h
Minnow wrote: Arminian philosophy establishes the principle that man can overcome sin/depravity on his own ability. BUT In the same breath states that the same sin/depravity prevents man from coming to seek salvation???
I am no Arminian (I believe in Eternal Security), but I know your word are deceiving. Most all Arminians say that man cannot overcome depravity. Depravity is what prevents man from coming to Christ, but depravity does not have to. Any depraved person can get saved. You are foolish (depraved) not wanting to.
Depravity is being deprived of something or Someone. A lot of the times it is just old bad habits that we cannot break without the Lord's help.
Only the reprobate are totally depraved. These are those who have consistently ignored God's word. They had ears to hear but didn't hear so God shut them.
No one is born totally depraved of ability to respond to God's general and personal call for salvation.
Many people think that everyone is born as actually part of God's elect at birth. This also is true. Every man is a child of God at birth.
1 Peter 2:24-25 24 ...by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Contender, is your new obsession Pharaoh? Rom 9:17 says, "for this purpose have I raised you up" not "for this purpose have I created you." One common interpretation is that God raised this particular Pharaoh up to this task because He knew how he would respond. In this way, God hardened Pharaoh's heart by indirect means. An analogy is that if I gave a terrorist weapons, I would have indirectly caused the weapons to be used although I never directly used them. Similarly, God indirectly hardened Pharaohâ€™s heart by giving him the means of doing so.
What hardens some, softens others. Moses's style of confrontation didn't work with Pharaoh. While commenting on Origen's view of Pharaoh (On First Principles book 3) Erasmus observed, "For just as the same rain brings forth excellent fruit in cultivated ground, but thorns and thistles in uncultivated ground, and just as wax melts, but mud hardens under the action of the same sun, so God's lenient toleration of sinners leads some to repentance and makes others persistent in their wrongdoing."
Pharaoh's salvation is not even in view here. John R. Rice remarks that â€śThe question of Pharaohâ€™s salvation is not even discussed here. The subject is Pharaohâ€™s attitude towards Israel.â€ť [Rice, John; Here Are More Questions Vol. II]
Contender, Salt of the Earth is right. Your man-made god is evil. Salt is also correct in observing that "If this is true what you say, there is no difference between God and Satan."
You see Contender, your god is not found in Scripture (so you cannot claim Sola Scriptura), but your god is found in the Satanic philosophy of Greek Humanism (Neo-Platonic [denial of free-will], Manichaeism [total inability; false interpretation of John 6:44; inheriting Adam's sin], (Gnostic inspired) Valentinianism [responsible for predestination independent of the God's foresight of volition], etc.
The greatest mistake of Calvinism is the plagurizing of Augustine's works. Britannica.com states, "Intellectually, Augustine represents the most influential adaptation of the ancient Platonic tradition with Christian ideas that ever occurred in the Latin Christian world."
Augustine formulated his false system by fusing together the Bible with ancient Greek Humanist sources. Even the Calvinist Warfield admits that Augustine's Christian philosophy is "built largely out of Platonic materials." Consequently because Calvin's masterpiece was done "by the authority of Augustine" (Book 3, chap 23), much of his theology, viz. Total Depravity, is integrated from Plato or rather from Neo-Platonism.