Unprofitable servant wrote:
Methinks most calvinist would be amillennial not post millennial

Is there such a thing as POST millennial? (that's total insanity).

Pre-millennial is Biblicaly correct. The Second Coming has not happened yet.

Isn't it true Calvies believe the Second Coming already happened in 70 AD? And the Resurrection already happened?

And we are now living in Heaven?

Can somebody explain what the Calvies believe?

Or do they just not believe in the Second Coming or Heaven and Hell and the Resurrection and Judgment Day and all that standard-type Christian stuff?

I just don't get it with the Calvinists.

I guess we didn't kill enough Muslims, or donate enough trillions to the Zionist banksters? Giving up our Constitution, our privacy, our economy, not enough to satisfy "Bless Me I'm Jewish?"

We just gotta try harder, right? If we give up our New Testaments and don't mention that name (shhh, you know, Jesus?) maybe that will satisfy the requirement to bless God's Chosen People so we can get blessed back?

I'm being sarcastic.

But Calvinists would claim now is a utopia, right? We're in the Millenium since 70 AD, and things are getting better and better?

When the Jews get their Messiah (aka Antichrist), will Calvies say it's Jesus? If the AC promises eternal life to take the Mark and get new DNA minus the death gene, will Calvinists do so, thinking we're in the Millenium, the Second Coming having already happened?

Rev. 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

cv wrote:
Huh? I didn't know that that's what I hold to?

Obviously, you believe that you can lose your salvation.
But just curious, do you believe in infant baptism?

This is the common theme throughout scripture, from Genesis to Revelation.

Jesus makes it even plainer in his words in the gospels. Can't miss it there.

If you are getting a different message, are you reading a different book?

Baptism is for people who have given their lives to God, trusted Jesus as Lord and Savior. It symbolizes that we have died and risen with Jesus in newness of life. If we haven't died and aren't new, then it was a useless ceremony other than perhaps it may please God to know that people are trying to honor him and obey him best they can. With infant baptism, it at least it shows the parents want their child to be a Christian and it's moving in the right direction of at least acknowledging God in the life of their child, hoping God will keep an eye and a blessing on the soul of their child.

CAS wrote:
At least they aren't blaming the calvinists this time...yet.

Romans 2:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS WITH GOD.

Undone just wrote:
When the SBC sends its finest baptized youth off to college, [URL=http://www.fwponline.cc/v30n1/apostasy_reasoner.html]]]75%[/url] return home non-Christian. Therefore, when you witness a baptismal service today, note that only 1 of 4 will remain Christian.
The vast majority are converting from Christianity into agnosticism and atheism.

2 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, IF ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

We are told to HOLD ON to faith and a good conscience.

1 Tim. 1:19

Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

John UK wrote:
Thanks for the comments Dopey. I shan't be voting for Obama, I can assure you.

Truthfully, I don't like you or your friend Dopey. Who would pick such a moniker as "Dopey?" Reading the interchanges between you and "Dopey" is surreal, disturbing, creepy, spiritually debilitating. I imagine if one hung out with insane persons long enough they would also become insane. If this were my forum I'd kick you off.

You are an evil presence here as is "Dopey" -- creepy.

As to "Dopey's" remarks about his shock at Obama's "blasphemous statements" that contradict Paul's teachings, yesterday Dopey posted that St. Paul was a bigot and that he did not believe in the existence of Hell. Then he changed his post to something else, but I saw it.

get the idea wrote:
Therefore, to say that Christ is not enough but that something else is needed as well is a most enormous blasphemy against God-- for it then would follow that Jesus Christ is only half a Savior. And therefore we justly say with Paul that we are justified "by faith alone" or by faith "apart from works." (Belgic Confession)

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John UK wrote:
Are you saying that you now agree with all my explanations in Isaiah 53. Surely not. Especially the part about particular redemption (limited atonement). Nothing to say about that, eh?

Isaiah 53:12 KJV
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
This is all about the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the fact that he "bare the sin of many", these being transgressors, and it is for these, and these only, that he prays (intercedes). He himself said in John 17, "I pray not for the world..." Why is this? It is because he has a chosen and elect people for whom he died, and for whom he has secured eternal life. In time, he calls them, justifies them, and ultimately glorifies them.
Do you want a text for that?
No, of course you don't.

John UK wrote:
On the contrary. Isaiah 53 gives more detail of the atonement than any other chapter.

Anybody who has followed this thread should see by now (you've done this about 4 times now) that you present Isaiah 53, pretending that I am disagreeing with what it says. You don't ever tie the scriptures to your argument of wrath of God or respond to my discussion of your own scripture you present.

Then in separate postings you put out your wrath of God claims.

You should be kicked off the forum for filling it up with your duplicity.

Somebody was accusing me of being a Jesuit spy here. I think if anybody is one it's you, definitely here to see that no coherent discussion can occur; using subterfuge, blowing smoke, just acting as an obstructionist in general.

I don't believe you don't use more than one moniker, don't believe one word you say. You are obviously smart and cunning, and show by your hatred of logic and truth and your pretensions of ignorance and understanding of what's said that you're not honest. You've shown yourself to be a cunning obstructionist on behalf of Satan.

John UK wrote:
I have been producing scripture for several posts now, with explanations of such,

John UK wrote:
The Roman Catholics believe the blood of Jesus saves. And so they have their magicians turn ordinary wine into the blood of Jesus literally and then they drink it. Pah!

I don't present papist error but scripture from Genesis to Revelation that the life is in the blood, sprinkling of blood on the mercy seat, the Exodus blood on the lintel that the angel of death would pass over. Hebrews tells us the blood of bulls and goats can never save, but the perfect Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, offered himself once to take them away.

Heb. 9: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

22 ..without shedding of blood is no remission.

Mike wrote:
..it is not the existence of anger in question, but to whom or what is it directed.
Isaiah 53:10
"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin.." By your reckoning this must mean the Father was happy to be angry with his Son. Not so.

The crucifixion by sinful men and devils was enough, and God did not add his wrath to the mix so there would be enough suffering to equal all individual Calvinist sins to pay for them in advance.

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin the Bible says, when we confess, and through faith in his BLOOD (not faith in Wrath of God inflicted in advance).

John UK wrote:
To continue
Isaiah 53:11 KJV
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Lots here.
1. "the travail of his soul".
This refers to the work of Christ in his life, death and resurrection and ascension; and also in his Spirit being given to his disciples..and also in his Spirit's work in "bringing many sons to glory" through regeneration, conviction, and enlightenment, in the course of which his chosen repent.. It was a huge amount of work, especially the suffering of the cross, which is foremost...No, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" and HE SAVES THEM.

John UK wrote:
You must live a really stressful life.
No peace for the wicked, eh?
Because according to your own beliefs (which no-one else holds), you must acknowledge every little sin you commit every day and every night, and you must confess and repent of them. If you either forget to confess, or if you sin without realising it, you forfeit your salvation. If you sin and never realise it was a sin, and the Spirit never convicts you of it, even for your lifetime, you will perish forever. And let me assure you that you do NOT know all the sins and rebellions you are guilty of before God.
You have turned away from the truth and believed a lie.

License to Sin Heresy.

There WAS no carefully meted out Wrath of God aimed at Jesus by the Father 'turning His head away.' Ludicrous.

The Bible never says the Father turned his head away. Another old wives tale. Further, Psalms 22 says God DID deliver Jesus. Jesus asked for deliverance from the cruel torment of the cross and the mockers, NOT from some "wrath without anger" of the Father. Jesus was delivered immediately, the words hardly out of his mouth -- he died.

Jesus bore our sins by his death on the cross, because he was a PERFECT SACRIFICE, the Second Adam, by his BLOOD, not by being a SPONGE for Wrath of God.

When Jesus died on the cross, at that moment the veil in the temple was ripped in half. Before Jesus died he said, IT IS FINISHED. Jesus had completed his mission to Planet Earth, to DIE FOR OUR SINS, a PERFECT SACRIFICE for our sins, the Second Adam.

Mike wrote:
As long as wrath is defined and used properly. God's wrath is his strong anger against sin. Sin is rebellion against God's authority. Jesus became sin for us so that God's justice would be meted out:
2 Corinthians 5:21
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
Yet in all of this, the Father was not angry with his Son, but with the sin that required his Son's suffering..

Lurker wrote:
1) Deu 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God). Believe what you will but let's have no more accusing others of wresting scripture while you do the same with impunity.
2) Who said the Father enjoyed seeing His Son suffer at wicked hands? But it was His determinate counsel to make perfect, through suffering the humilation of the cross, the captain of eternal salvation (Heb 2:10).
3) Book, chapter and verse, please. His Spirit went to paradise; that is, the third heaven where the Father was/is, silly. But His mortal body and soul went to hell (Ps 86:13).

It gets wilder and wilder here.

The people who are in Hell now are not there in their physical bodies.

John UK wrote:
Isaiah 53:6 KJV
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
What is iniquity?
It is another word for sin.
And what is sin?
The Bible says it is transgression of the law.
What has happened to all my sin?
The Lord laid it upon my Saviour.
Why did he do that?
So that his justice towards my sin would be meted out to another, namely, the Lord Jesus.
So his wrath was poured out upon his Son, so that John UK could be forgiven and given eternal life?
Correct.

Let us have some scripture -- not articles, not hymns, not Institutes, but scripture.

He became sin who knew no sin, the Bible says. He poured out his soul unto death, he, Jesus, gave his life for us, and he took it up again. As Jesus said, he gave his life, nobody took it, he gave it.

Lurker wrote:
The cross WAS God's wrath, silly (Gal 3:13). Jesus willingly submitted to the curse, the cross, to take away the debt which He bare if His own mortal flesh (Col 2:14).
Jesus was separated from the Father as a mortal man, body and soul, three days and nights in hell, but His spirit, which was/is God, was received by the Father when He gave up the ghost.
Anything else?

It's not that the Father enjoyed watching Jesus suffer on the cross, nor did he strengthen the hands of those who beat him, nor inspire those who mocked him and spat on him as a tough sovereign God in control.

Dopey wrote:
1 Kings 21:23 KJV
And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.

Don't they have any nice people posting here, any nice Southern Baptists?

Also, I want to retract and clarify. Jesus went to Paradise after his death, which is in the center of the earth, separated by a chasm from Hell. I believe he led the saints in Paradise out of Paradise and into Heaven at this time.

John UK wrote:
Isaiah 53:4-5 KJV
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

He was "wounded for our transgressions".

Jesus and the Father agreed to this crucifixion. God was not the one who beat Jesus, nailed him, mocked him, said "Let God save you, come down off the cross," etc.

Jesus suffered greatly, was marred more than any man, and we know this. When are you going to show that on top of Jesus' horrific crucifixion that God was pouring more wrath on Jesus, enough to pay for the carefully tabulated sins the Father saw into the future for his limited atonement for his elect Calvinists.