Five hundred years after the start of the Protestant Reformation, a majority of U.S. Protestants reportedly reject the Reformation doctrines of sola fide (the belief men and women are saved by faith alone) and sola scriptura (the belief Scripture is the only infallible guide for faith and practice).
Thatâ€™s the finding of the Pew Research Center, which also found a majority of western European Protestants reject sola fide and that theological differences between Protestants and Catholics seem to be narrowing in many cases.
â€śThe result of the survey â€¦ in America and Europe is not particularly surprising,â€ť said Paige Patterson, a participant during the 1990s in a five-year theological dialogue between eight Southern Baptist leaders and eight representatives of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops.
â€śAlthough such surveys have little relevance on the vitality of faith and are often skewed...
"whether or not liberals are Christians, it is at any rate perfectly clear that liberalism is not Christianity. And that being the case, it is highly undesirable that liberalism and Christianity should continue to be propagated within the bounds of the same organization. A separation between the two parties in the Church is the crying need of the hour. Many indeed are seeking to avoid the separation. Why, they say, may not brethren dwell together in unity? The Church, we are told, has room both for liberals and for conservatives. The conservatives may be allowed to remain if they will keep trifling matters in the background and attend chiefly to â€śthe weightier matters of the law.â€ť And among the things thus designated as â€śtriflingâ€ť is found the Cross of Christ, as a really vicarious atonement for sin" (J Gresham Machen) (Christianity and Liberalism 1923)
ladybug wrote: "But something has happened in the last sixty years. The freedom that once was founded on a biblical consensus and a Christian ethos has now become autonomous freedom, cut loose from all constraints.
Thank you, Ladybug Here is a link to a brother (I don't agree with his Eschatology) BUT he does imho excellent on clearly explaining our present times in his helpful sermon:
"Depraved New World" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG0wn4iHxXY
Bishops and deacons most certainly should not be getting rich for the sake of it. However my view is that if you are faithful to present the true gospel to the best of your God given ability i am not concerned about your income, unless you are fully dedicated to full time preaching and cannot pay your bills when you are living modestly. Perhaps it's just my bent, if you know what I mean.
Ivan I do disagree however what you've stated about Calvinist and trinity. Scripture plainly states the trihead, and salvation as recorded in scripture, quite clearly I'd pray we both agree? Calvin, is another person in history, who rightly divided the word of God, and humanity have named this Calvinism. Ivan simply view salvation as Calvin did. If someone comes after me with the same belief I don't call the davearians. If that makes sense mate.
Communist I'm certainly not, but I get what angle you are coming from, I think. The ministry's money should be used to Minister, to the assembly, according to New testament examples, I see nothing in scripture that condones bishops, deacons etc getting rich off preaching God's word. Quite the opposite actually, but at the end of the day, I'll never be a rich preacher, so that's one less bondage I have to concern myself with. God bless you Ivan
Nice quote, Ladybug, and quite appropriate. Sounds so much like Daniel 11. Schaeffer, who left his fundamentalist roots in the 1950s, was well founded in his spiritual upbringing and knew how to sight the signs of the times.
"But something has happened in the last sixty years. The freedom that once was founded on a biblical consensus and a Christian ethos has now become autonomous freedom, cut loose from all constraints. Here we have the world spirit of our ageâ€”autonomous Man setting himself up as God, in defiance of the knowledge and the moral and spiritual truth which God has given. Here is the reason why we have a moral breakdown in every area of life. The titanic freedoms which we once enjoyed have been cut loose from their Christian restraints and are becoming a force of destruction leading to chaos. All morality becomes relative, law becomes arbitrary, and society moves toward disintegration. In personal and social life, compassion is swallowed up by self-interest. As I have pointed out in my earlier books, when the memory of the Christian consensus which gave us freedom within the biblical form is increasingly forgotten, a manipulating authoritarianism will tend to fill the vacuum. At this point the words â€śrightâ€ť and â€śleftâ€ť will make little difference. They are only two roads to the same end; the results are the same. An elite, an authoritarianism as such, will gradually force on society so that it will not go into chaosâ€”and most people would accept it." Francis Schaeffer
There are many things that are not specifically spelled out in scripture that we believe as truth. Trinity, Calvinism etc. and a salary is not mentioned either so I can't really follow that line personally. Deciding what is enough money to make smacks of communism and mob rule. If we don't support a ministry that we can give to freely we should not support it, but if John Mac makes 10 million a year I personally don't care. I am only concerned if he , or anyone else , preaches truth. Love of money is for sure a great snare that brings much evil.
Ivan, brother in Christ, I wouldn't jump to conclusions, I'm happy and content with what the Lord has provided myself with, it's a blessing to be able to look after your family and help others. Love of mammon is a dangerous pastime, why would a pastor need $800k a year, from a charity he is ceo of? Why
No Ivan they shouldn't be made to live in poverty. Where in scripture do we see their massive salaries is where I'm coming from. They're not following the examples set by the apostles or Jesus. God bless mate
When it comes to setting pastor salaries these days, BaptistStandard.com reports that the national average pastor compensation is $77,096. This average comes from The Compensation Handbook for Church Staff an "industry" survey - The median annual Pastor salary is $92,846, as of September 06, 2017, with a range usually between $76,309-$105,231, however this can vary widely depending on a variety of factors. -- From a couple online searches. -- From Viola & Barna's "Pagan Christianity "-pg 171 "third century, Cyprian of Carthage was the first Christian writer to mention the practice of financially supporting the clergy. He argued that just as the Levites were supported by the tithe, so the Christian clergy should be supported by the tithe.' But this is mis- guided thinking. Today, the Levitical system has been abolished. We are all priests now. So if a priest demands a tithe, then all Christians should tithe to one another!" -a few pages later they say "Refuse to tithe, and God will punish you. Such thoughts rip at the heart of the good news of the gospel. The same can be said about the clergy salary. It, too, has no New Testament merit. In fact, the clergy salary runs against the grain of the entire New Covenant... Acts 20:33-35"
I see no reason all preachers should live in poverty, that's not what you're suggesting is it. If one is preaching the gospel and is true to the teaching of scripture shouldn't he be able to receive whatever the church body deems is appropriate. Is the problem with pastors salary with the preacher, the church or ours? ( just trying to understand other points of view, don't jump to conclusions lol )