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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  10/18/2019
TUESDAY, SEP 15, 2009  |  33 comments
Billy Graham’s daughter questions need for church attendance
One of Billy Graham’s daughters came up with could easily be construed as a surprising answer to one of the oldest faith-related questions: Do you have to go to church to be a Christian?

A new book penned by 61-year-old Anne Graham Lotz suggests the answer is ‘no.’


CLICK HERE to Read Entire Article
www.everydaychristian.com

Why Church Membership?
  START  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 33 user comment(s)
News Item9/25/09 3:24 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Jim, as on many previous occasions, you prefer re-starting a debate about an unjust caricature of what I believe than admitting your wicked treatment of me. I am not so stupid as to fall for this trick.

And your caricature is irrelevant anyway. Where on this thread did I bring up membership, house churches, or church polity? My complaint was about wicked Christian behavior (such as you exhibit here) in churches.

As one previous pastor once wisely said, "The first thing to do when you're in a hole is, stop digging!"

33

News Item9/25/09 2:43 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
I'm not trivializing anything, Neil. If you're anti-church, did I not say that household churches at best self-centered and at worst, crackpot? I am condemning anyone who pushes such nonsense, if you're one who does, well, if the shoe fits wear it! [URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0105W2.htm]]]Why Should I Become an Active Member of a Church?[/URL] answers this nonsense.

Judges 17
6In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.

Church membership and participation provides a perspective that a family church is lacking.

But if you think I'm going to get in name calling contest forget it.

32

News Item9/24/09 3:11 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
So I should stop complaining about *you*? What hypocrisy! Your 1st post on this thread rebuked *me*!

The possibility that God will judge you by the same standards you use against others (Matt. 7:2) hasn't seemed to have occurred to you. Hence I wonder more about your salvation than I do Mrs. Lotz's, for I have much more experience with you than with her, and it isn't encouraging.

Yet another example: you sarcastically trivialize the offense you caused by calling it "ruffled feathers." That too is a sociopathic sin I've seen other alleged Christians commit. If you're so zealous for God's reputation, how can a believer be less so for that of the brethren?

31

News Item9/24/09 3:01 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
What did I say about you? Being a liberal?

John MacArthur said or, wrote:
Let me say that I believe that Anne Graham Lotz is very wrong in what she is doing and is going against the principles outlined in the Word of God.
excerpt from, [URL=http://www.biblebb.com/files/tonyqa/tc01-108.htm]]]Could you elaborate on the ministry of "women evangelists."[/URL]

Perhaps, I should have used the word "unorthodox" theology, in certain areas? Would that stopped your feathers from being ruffled?

Ah, instead of complaining about me, I would like to hear what you find wrong about, [URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0105W2.htm]]]Why Should I Become an Active Member of a Church?[/URL]

30

News Item9/23/09 6:38 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Still no repentance for your insinuations about me, eh, Jim? And you still haven't proven your claim that Mrs. Lotz is unregenerate. Guilt by association (imputing a father's sins to his children) is a fallacy.

But one thing has been proven (to my satisfaction, at least): you are *exactly* like the people I complained about in my initial post here!

29

News Item9/23/09 2:19 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
What smear, this time? A. G. Lotz, Billy G., and even the son, Franklin G. have questionable theology and father and daughter are not Christian. Perhaps that's why SA put up her comments, so as to help be a kiss of death to the Household Church movement.
As I pointed out in areas of persecution, the household church may be the only way to go, but where churches can be freely established, HHCs are at best run by selfish people and at worst crackpots, q.v., again, [URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0105W2.htm]]]Why Should I Become an Active Member of a Church?[/URL].

Heard of synchronized swimming? The Olympics dropped it for individuals, it only works for a group, Christianity is much the same way. It's the body of Christ, not his little toe!

Lotz in other words, is spouting her usual nonsense.

28

News Item9/23/09 9:51 AM
Presbyterian  Find all comments by Presbyterian
Anne Graham Lotz wrote:
Do you have to go to church to be a Christian? .......Lotz suggests the answer is ‘no.’
"When we look at what Scripture tells us, we see that this is the test whereby we can try our lives. Remember, among the many marks of the Lord’s people given in the First Epistle of John, we have this clear statement: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren” (1 John 3:14). It is also the sign of Christian brotherhood. Societies have their own signs or marks, we are told. Well this is the sign, the mark, of Christian brotherhood: love to one another. Also it is an earnest of mutual helpfulness; love leads to practical help and, while Christians should indeed do all they can to help everyone, they have a special obligation to help those of “the household of faith”. Remember how the Apostle Paul brings this out: ”Let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith” (Gal 6:10)." (Rev. W A Weale)
(FPC Scotland Mag)
27

News Item9/22/09 3:00 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
Jim, there you go again, stepping on more logical road-apples:

"most of the close relatives of the Graham clan do not have good theology"
Begs the question. BTW, I think your particular opinions are often no more orthodox than hers, but I don't question YOUR Christianity for it.

"clan/family churches are not what the Bible was aiming for, and if you don't think that Churches are necessary..."
Another irrelevant, filthy smear that I do not expect you will admit to. Repentance is so easy when only God is the offended party...

Work on that 2x4 in your eye before searching for splinters in others'! A little introspection never killed anyone.

26

News Item9/22/09 2:21 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Neil, I owe no apology, I probably assumed that you know about the Lotz character, but this is not an assumption I should have made about anyone, so I am wrong on that. But, most of the close relatives of the Graham clan do not have good theology. So, clan/family churches are not what the Bible was aiming for, and if you don't think that Churches are necessary, oh well, [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=1070414423]]]The Truth Behind The Church's Purpose[/URL] doesn't mean that any human church has reached perfection (nor I might add any father who thinks he has perfect leadership abilities) So, I'll go along with [URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0105W2.htm]]]Why Should I Become an Active Member of a Church?[/URL]. I'm not in perfect agreement with it, since apparently it was written from a Presbyterian perspective, but on the whole, a good article.
25

News Item9/21/09 4:16 PM
Neil | Tucson  Find all comments by Neil
What a classic piece of unrepentant evasion, the very sort I've seen from errant clerics & politicians too! Repent from that, or no discussion with you is worth my time. If my remarks have not been clear enough hitherto, then you won't understand any subsequent ones either.

And I'm not the one here who needs to think about James 3.

24

News Item9/21/09 3:02 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, Neil, perhaps I should have put a after my comment? Or perhaps you should make your comments clearer? Your defense of Lotz is not a conservative one is it? Explain to me, how it could be? You mean you are a big supporter of Church membership? the following Ankerberg article supports the idea, [URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/practical-christianity/PC0105W2.htm]]]Why Should I Become an Active Member of a Church?[/URL]. (The one thing I dislike about the article that word "ordinance" should have been used instead of "sacrament." The family is an important part of Christianity, one could even argue the most important part, but if it never goes outside of the family circle, when it has the opportunity to do so, well that isn't Christian.

So, Neil, if we misunderstood each other , I hope this message helps clears up the problem.

James 3
5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold, how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!
6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell. (NASB)

23

News Item9/17/09 6:17 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Plebeian wrote:
Give your life to Jesus
And go forward in faith
Go in the Spirit
And don't be afraid of sinners.

Be strong in the Lord's strength.

Correct!

Kenneth Copeland is a heretic (Word of Faith style ministry) following on from Hagin and others who preached that our words can 'create' just as God created.

I'm glad you're not one of them!

But remember, if you're going to capitalise "His" because referring to deity, do not also capitalise "disciples", or you may find that folks will imagine that sinners are actually divine.

22

News Item9/17/09 5:59 PM
Plebeian  Find all comments by Plebeian
afterthought wrote:
That's a cute little saying, that just isn't true, but repeated often enough for people to actually believe it.
The Bible says, "the power of life and death is in the tongue."
God says
Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

God also says
Proverbs 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Also
Proverbs 21:23 Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue keepeth his soul from troubles.

However regardless of the activities of the sinners tongues - It does not mean you have to run from them like a scared rabbit.

Give your life to Jesus
And go forward in faith
Go in the Spirit

And don't be afraid of sinners.

2Cor 1:5 "For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer. or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation."

Be strong in the Lord's strength.
_________________________

John UK
Who is Copeland???

21

News Item9/17/09 5:08 PM
bjohnny  Find all comments by bjohnny
"Do you have to go to church to be a Christian?
A new book penned by 61-year-old Anne Graham Lotz suggests the answer is ‘no"

This is true. Being a church member and attending church does not make one a Christian, but Scripture says:

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

20

News Item9/17/09 4:41 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
Plebeian wrote:
.....As Jesus often cried out at His Disciples......
Why did you capitalise "His"?

Why did you capitalise "Disciples"?

You don't belong to that Copeland cult do you? You know, the ones who believe they have the power of God because they believe they are gods?

19

News Item9/17/09 4:35 PM
Plebeian  Find all comments by Plebeian
afterthought wrote:
That's a cute little saying, that just isn't true,
Yes it is.

I know God
I speak to Him daily
I have His gift of faith
His only begotten Son died for me
I have the grace of God working in me
I have the Holy Spirit of God working in me
I am born again
I can read the very Words of God sent to me

And
I should worry about what another sinner says to me.

Oh ye of little faith.
As Jesus often cried out at His Disciples.

18

News Item9/17/09 4:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Contact via emailFind all comments by John UK
afterthought wrote:
The Bible says, "the power of life and death is in the tongue."
Too true!

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Philippians 2:15-16 KJV

It is holding forth, and speaking out, the word of life, that sinners are born again from above, by the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven to illuminate the sons of Adam as to their spiritual darkness, deadness, blindness, deafness and inability to work any good for their salvation from the consequences of their sin. Praise the Lord that his word returns not void, but accomplishes all that he determines.

17

News Item9/17/09 4:01 PM
afterthought  Find all comments by afterthought
plebeian wrote:
Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never harm you.
That's a cute little saying, that just isn't true, but repeated often enough for people to actually believe it.
The Bible says, "the power of life and death is in the tongue."
16

News Item9/17/09 3:52 PM
Guinness  Find all comments by Guinness
plebeian wrote:
Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never harm you.
Chapter and verse for that one please.

BTW - what is it that redeemed sinners are expected to do?

15

News Item9/17/09 3:33 PM
plebeian  Find all comments by plebeian
Guinness wrote:
Neil,
That attack lie is par for the course on this forum and certainly not restricted to just Jim or the KJVO fundies either.
It says far more about the accuser than it does about the accused.
Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never harm you.

Because you can always post a reply back to the misdemeanant, whom in all probability is a sinner.

14
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