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Breaking News Home | All | Religion | Society | Tech | Choice | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  7/22/2019
MONDAY, MAR 16, 2009  |  500 comments  |  1 commentary
Time: The New Calvinism
If you really want to follow the development of conservative Christianity, track its musical hits. In the early 1900s you might have heard "The Old Rugged Cross," a celebration of the atonement. By the 1980s you could have shared the Jesus-is-my-buddy intimacy of "Shine, Jesus, Shine." And today, more and more top songs feature a God who is very big, while we are...well, hark the David Crowder Band: "I am full of earth/ You are heaven's worth/ I am stained with dirt/ Prone to depravity."

Calvinism is back, and not just musically. John Calvin's 16th century reply to medieval Catholicism's buy-your-way-out-of-purgatory excesses is Evangelicalism's latest success story, complete with an utterly sovereign and micromanaging deity, sinful and puny humanity, and the combination's logical consequence, predestination: the belief that before time's dawn, God decided whom he would save (or not), unaffected by ...


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News Item10/5/09 2:07 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
C.H. Spurgeon wrote:
The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.
[URL=http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm]]](Phil Johnson's Spurgeon site, I believe.[/URL]

Psalms 53
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth.
Isaiah 53
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.
Romans 8
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so;
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. ---[URL=http://www.lockman.org/nasb/nasbcmp.php]]]NASB[/URL]

Look at URL=http://www.ihcc.org/images/booklets/pdf/L200.pdf]]]Calvinism & Arminianism[/URL] to see history of these ideas.

500

News Item5/19/09 6:01 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
John
Have you been drinking?

[URL=http://www.brewingkb.com/wine/turnip-beer-wine-338.html]]]John's Turnip Beer[/URL]
The Lord saith:
I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.
Song of Solomon 5:1 KJV

See Ephesians 5:18...

CHS saith:
Let us not fall into the error of letting our passions and carnal appetites ride in triumph, while our nobler powers walk in the dust. Grace must reign as a prince, and make the members of the body instruments of righteousness. The HOLY SPIRIT loves order, and He therefore sets OUR POWERS and FACULTIES in due rank and place, giving the highest room to those SPIRITUAL FACULTIES which LINK US with the great KING; let us not disturb the divine arrangement, but ask for grace that we may keep under our body and bring it into subjection. We were not new created to allow our passions to rule over us, but that we, as kings, may reign in Christ Jesus over the triple kingdom of spirit, soul, and body, to the glory of God the Father."

Orthodox Calvinism n'est pas?

499

News Item5/13/09 4:58 PM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
HA!
GREAT ANSWER
Hyperturnips of the world unite! And praise the Lord for his great love and compassion to sinners without ears!
Ere ere!
John
Have you been drinking?

[URL=http://www.brewingkb.com/wine/turnip-beer-wine-338.html]]]John's Turnip Beer[/URL]

498

News Item5/13/09 4:42 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
1] So you are convinced are you John that Roman Catholics, Liberal anglicans, JW's and their ilk are all born again believers???
What religion did you say you were from?
2] Can a deaf person be saved John?
Or does he have to be dragged by the ears also?
3] "hyperman"? - John if I was a Hyper-calvinist, to which you allude, then I wouldn't be speaking to you since you are outwith their privy circle.
4] Iv'e read Calvin many times! But your snag on this goad John is that you want to exclude the work of the Holy Spirit and God's gift of Faith.
Your not one of these hyper-arminian types are you.
[URL=http://www.apuritansmind.com/Arminianism/Arminianism.htm]]]John read the truth about Arminian Heresy[/URL]
PS It's getting very boring on the board these days isn't it.
HA!

GREAT ANSWER

Hyperturnips of the world unite! And praise the Lord for his great love and compassion to sinners without ears!

Ere ere!

497

News Item5/13/09 4:17 PM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
1] So those who comprise a non-reformed church are all born again, therefore elect of God

2] "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

3] Say, you're not one of those hypermen are you?

4] Have a read:

1] So you are convinced are you John that Roman Catholics, Liberal anglicans, JW's and their ilk are all born again believers???

What religion did you say you were from?

2] Can a deaf person be saved John?
Or does he have to be dragged by the ears also?

3] "hyperman"? - John if I was a Hyper-calvinist, to which you allude, then I wouldn't be speaking to you since you are outwith their privy circle.

4] Iv'e read Calvin many times! But your snag on this goad John is that you want to exclude the work of the Holy Spirit and God's gift of Faith.

Your not one of these hyper-arminian types are you.

[URL=http://www.apuritansmind.com/Arminianism/Arminianism.htm]]]John read the truth about Arminian Heresy[/URL]

PS It's getting very boring on the board these days isn't it.

496

News Item5/13/09 3:46 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
1] You mean those convinced of the tenet of Free will? The Papists method of salvation by works? Other cults teach this fallacy too eg JW's.
2] The method God employs is the Holy Spirit working in the HEART of the sinner.
Not the ears!
My dear old thing

Ecclesia (church) means those called by God, not the building. A member of "the church" is born again. So those who comprise a non-reformed church are all born again, therefore elect of God, but hold to non-reformed doctrine. See? Sigh, whatever am I going to do with you?

#2 You've dug yourself into a big pit on this one. "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." I have plenteous quotes from Mr Calvin waiting in the wings. If you cannot accept my words, perhaps you will listen to him, eh?

Of course, if you want to carry on in your mystical, charismatic style, beliefs concerning how God saves sinners, then please raise your mystical flag instead of cowering under a pretense of holding to sound doctrine.

Say, you're not one of those hypermen are you?

Have a read: [URL=http://www.biblestudyguide.org/comment/calvin/comm_vol38/htm/xiv.iv.htm]]]Ed Word's Lesson for Today[/URL]

495

News Item5/13/09 3:18 PM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
1] Ok so you are a thirteen year old

2] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not HEARD?

3] #1 The word 'church' means the "called out ones". A non-reformed church is

4] #2 The method God employs is the preaching of the gospel, the hearing of the gospel, the believing of the gospel

1] More ad hominem. You are on form today arn't you John???

2] The vital part of the Rom 10 verses you quote is "whom they have not believed" (R) "BELIEVED". - Now John does every single person who has ever attended a church "BELIEVE unto salvation?" - Let me help you a little here - the answer is NO! EG Matt 7:21 or the churches in Rev. 2/3. Then there is false teachers/professors etc etc

3] εκκλεσια or church specifically means called out to a religious meeting. But we won't quibble over that shall we.

4] "Hearing" is only of use to those elect who have the Holy Spirit (indwelling) working on their heart.
As Jesus points out many hear but fail to understand Mark 4:12.

As to just "hearing" how do you think the illiterate folks in medieval times got on hearing latin?
Remember "school" wasn't invented till the 1870's

494

News Item5/13/09 10:46 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
1] You mean those convinced of the tenet of Free will? The Papists method of salvation by works? Other cults teach this fallacy too eg JW's.
2] The method God employs is the Holy Spirit working in the HEART of the sinner.
Not the ears!
Ok so you are a thirteen year old fresher who hasn't read the Bible through yet....my apologies. Ask your sunday school teacher.

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not HEARD? and how shall they HEAR without a preacher?
Romans 10:12-14 KJV

#1 The word 'church' means the "called out ones". A non-reformed church is people who have been effectually called by God, being elect.

#2 The method God employs is the preaching of the gospel, the hearing of the gospel, the believing of the gospel through Spirit-enabling, and calling on the name of the Lord. Biblical!

I suggest reading Michael's excellent thesis on DECEPTION, the main issue confronting the church today.

493

News Item5/13/09 10:31 AM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
1] Non-reformed churches are people who have been born of the Spirit but who do not hold reformed position.

2] God CANNOT bless the gospel to a sinner's heart unless the sinner HEARS the gospel. And if you don't believe THAT, please explain how God does that.

1] You mean those convinced of the tenet of Free will? The Papists method of salvation by works? Other cults teach this fallacy too eg JW's.

2] The method God employs is the Holy Spirit working in the HEART of the sinner.

Not the ears!

492

News Item5/13/09 10:22 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
1] Your last post said; "Re-read my post, and then tell me that what I have written is not true. If you are able to do that, of course."
This implies that I cannot perceive the truth - unless I agree with you.
2] The elect saved by non-reformed churches??? What like the RCC? JW's? Anglican/Episcopalian abomination? Liberals?
This then suggests that God uses these means over HIS TRUE CHURCH???
One tiny point for you to ingest John....
GOD SAVES - Not man!!!
#1 Nooo noooo! Far from it. Let me put it in plainer English.

Let us suppose I posted something which is not true. And then I ask you you: "Tell me that what I have written is true". But....you are not able to do that, because you don't believe that is true. It is NOT incapacity, but an inability to lie, you only want to speak the truth. See?

Non-reformed churches are people who have been born of the Spirit but who do not hold reformed position. In America there would be many Baptist churches like this, and they evangelise. God CANNOT bless the gospel to a sinner's heart unless the sinner HEARS the gospel. And if you don't believe THAT, please explain how God does that.

491

News Item5/13/09 10:12 AM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
#1 No ad hominem there, pal. "If you are able to" simply means "only if you agree" with what I said. If you disagreed, then of course you would not be able to agree, and you would "not be able to". See?
#2 You're not thinking are you? The "elect of God" are being saved mainly in non-reformed churches or through non-reformed evangelists. Why? Because they are more active in spreading the word, even though it be a faulty word. But the gospel is still there, the power of God!
1] Your last post said; "Re-read my post, and then tell me that what I have written is not true. If you are able to do that, of course."

This implies that I cannot perceive the truth - unless I agree with you.

2] The elect saved by non-reformed churches??? What like the RCC? JW's? Anglican/Episcopalian abomination? Liberals?

This then suggests that God uses these means over HIS TRUE CHURCH???

One tiny point for you to ingest John....
GOD SAVES - Not man!!!

490

News Item5/13/09 10:00 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
1] Why the ad hominem in the last part of your sentence?
2] Your stated theme in your previous post was; 'that the Reformed Church was in disobedience to God in not evangelising' that being so the implication of your post is that the elect were not being brought to Christ, because of church failure.
However that would appear to factor out God and His grace and power in saving the elect. Is God restricted without a "large" church? Your post was a presumed generalisation in that you cannot perceive exactly what God is doing right at these precise times in history.
Questions - Is God calling less, saving less people just now?
Are these times a trial of faith for God's people regardless of the size of the church/congregations?
Is size important?
#1 No ad hominem there, pal. "If you are able to" simply means "only if you agree" with what I said. If you disagreed, then of course you would not be able to agree, and you would "not be able to". See?

#2 You're not thinking are you? The "elect of God" are being saved mainly in non-reformed churches or through non-reformed evangelists. Why? Because they are more active in spreading the word, even though it be a faulty word. But the gospel is still there, the power of God!

489

News Item5/13/09 9:33 AM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
1] Re-read my post, and then tell me that what I have written is not true. If you are able to do that, of course.

2] Besides which, if "the church don't work", what makes you think they're elect?

1] Why the ad hominem in the last part of your sentence?

2] Your stated theme in your previous post was; 'that the Reformed Church was in disobedience to God in not evangelising' that being so the implication of your post is that the elect were not being brought to Christ, because of church failure.

However that would appear to factor out God and His grace and power in saving the elect. Is God restricted without a "large" church? Your post was a presumed generalisation in that you cannot perceive exactly what God is doing right at these precise times in history.

Questions - Is God calling less, saving less people just now?
Are these times a trial of faith for God's people regardless of the size of the church/congregations?
Is size important?

488

News Item5/12/09 6:50 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ed Word wrote:
Are you saying that GOD will fail to save all the elect, because the church dont work?
Re-read my post, and then tell me that what I have written is not true. If you are able to do that, of course.

Besides which, if "the church don't work", what makes you think they're elect?

487

News Item5/12/09 6:24 PM
Ed Word  Find all comments by Ed Word
John UK wrote:
One of the main reasons for this is because in general, the reformed churches are preaching hundreds of thousands of gospel messages and teaching messages to the saints only, instead of going out into the world and telling sinners that JESUS SAVES!
If God "now commandeth all men everywhere TO REPENT", is it not our responsibility to tell all men that? Instead, most churches allow non-reformed people to win souls to Christ, and then hope that these converts will get fed up with the teaching they get, and seek out a more biblical church. And then when they do, they lose all their zeal for Christ and the gospel because most of the reformed churches are fast asleep in Zion.
Are you saying that GOD will fail to save all the elect, because the church dont work?
486

News Item5/12/09 6:18 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Caledonia wrote:
But it does seem so sad that only a 'Remnant' are 'Reformed' whilst we are here on earth!
One of the main reasons for this is because in general, the reformed churches are preaching hundreds of thousands of gospel messages and teaching messages to the saints only, instead of going out into the world and telling sinners that JESUS SAVES!

If God "now commandeth all men everywhere TO REPENT", is it not our responsibility to tell all men that? Instead, most churches allow non-reformed people to win souls to Christ, and then hope that these converts will get fed up with the teaching they get, and seek out a more biblical church. And then when they do, they lose all their zeal for Christ and the gospel because most of the reformed churches are fast asleep in Zion.

485

News Item5/12/09 2:27 PM
Caledonia  Find all comments by Caledonia
Mike wrote:
Yes indeed, John. The reformed will finally be reformed completely.
But it does seem so sad that only a 'Remnant' are 'Reformed' whilst we are here on earth!
484

News Item5/12/09 11:32 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
John UK wrote:
Sure, it is a simple fact that when folks arrive in heaven, all their doctrine is reformed and put straight.
Yes indeed, John. The reformed will finally be reformed completely.
483

News Item5/12/09 10:16 AM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
Candle Lit wrote:
Once God opens our eyes spiritually, ALL of creation proclaims His GLORY, in ways only His children can experience. When we are alive to God, we are alive to everything that He has created.
And that's one of the differences (albeit minor) between the unbeliever and the believer -- the atheist and the Christian. When it comes to how each perceives the creation around him, the believer has a "dimension" added to what all he's looking at: the Maker behind that which was made. He "sees" the REALITY behind the reality.

The former sees things only "WITH the eye." For him, the creation can indeed be something "wonderful." But over time, even this wonder can lose its luster and become something bland and ordinary ... even a matter of nausea and boredom. [Many of the existential writers and poets express this sentiment: ENNUI.]

Only the latter sees things "THROUGH the eye," i.e., the creation pointing to THE CREATOR behind and beyond that which is being observed. Seeing GOD behind his creation adds LIFE to life -- eternal, essential life to passing, contingent life.

482

News Item5/12/09 10:09 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Candle Lit wrote:
John,
Once God opens our eyes spiritually, ALL of creation proclaims His GLORY, in ways only His children can experience. When we are alive to God, we are alive to everything that He has created. We are truly blessed. Aren't we?
I'm sure you'll capture that glorious sunset.
Ooooh yes, we really are blessed, to be so enabled to see things which before were of litle interest. The creation itself is the real masterpiece, and humankind is so very special, which is why we are exhorted to "honour all men". Not always easy (in fact it is sometimes very difficult) but nevertheless, God knows best how we are to be, in this world, and to obey him is "better than sacrifice" as the word says.

Thankfully we are complete in Christ, and have all that we need in him for time and eternity, due to his blood and righteousness. To be washed clean from every spot, and have his righteousness imputed (credited) to our account is something only his brethren will understand. And he is "not ashamed to call us brethren".

I nearly fainted at the cost of a good website; but undaunted, I'm going to press on, and paint a banner picture for the homepage of.........yes! A glorious sunset, with Psalm 19:1

481
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