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FRONT PAGE  |  10/19/2017
Choice News THURSDAY, JUL 28, 2005  |  27 comments
ACLU challenges exclusive use of Bible

AFP/File Photo: A clergyman holds a Koran.

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US civil rights group has filed suit in North Carolina to allow Muslim witnesses in the state's courts to swear on the Koran holy book rather than the usual Bible.

The North Carolina chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union challenged on Tuesday a judge's refusal to let non-Christian witnesses take oaths using holy books of other religions.

Superior Court Judge Douglas Albright in Greensboro had ruled earlier that a state law that specifies using "holy scriptures" in administering oaths refers only to the Christian Bible.

Albright said the southeastern state's laws allow non-Christians to take an oath without using any text at all, but alternate texts were not legally permitted. ...

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 27 user comment(s)
News Item8/2/05 5:44 AM
Chris M | Australia  
Oops, I do apologise Jim - I had you confused with a different Jim who posts here & is a staunch RC. My mistake; I should be more careful....

BTW, I suggest check out (or there are many others also) for detailed info on Mohammad and the link to terrorism today & why Moslems are actually encouraged to use lies and to break promises if necessary as stated below.


News Item8/2/05 1:57 AM
Jim | USA  

I am a strict southern baptist and I believe that is the only way to fully experience our saviour Jesus Christ. Southern baptists believe the truth that the Bible is the direct word of God and that the only way heaven is to follow it completely and at all times. I think this is a wonderful website for people who know Christ to speak freely and I appreciate the time everyone spent reading my opinions. The answers to all of my questions as well as yours can be found in the Bible so I am now going to read it. God bless you all!


News Item8/1/05 10:44 PM
Chris M | Australia  
Amazingly Jim stated: "I don't believe it is right to "fear" any loving and nurturing God."

In stark contrast the Bible tells us that: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom" Proverbs 9v10

Quite astounding what the Catholic Church teaches people.... I guess if they remain without wisdom they are gonna stay with the RCC religion.

Perhaps just to re-confirm Jim also said "I have no respect or mercy for terrorists but the muslim religion does not promote terrorism either."

Of course anyone who has read the Quran or the Hadith knows full well that the Muslim religion is very much about terrorism; it was founded by one after all.


News Item8/1/05 4:21 PM
Jim | USA  
dear 33k,

Obviously God does not share His glory. Are you saying that God is a jealous God. If so, what is He (or she) jealous of? All I am saying is that the same God that created you and I has created muslims (and all man around the world of which there are many different religions/beliefs)and while we may not agree with them we have the moral obligation to love all of God's creation and realize He has a purpose for everyone. No part of the holy trinity is supposed to act in evil or "unfair" ways. Doesn't our idea of justice come strictly from the lord? I don't believe it is right to "fear" any loving and nurturing God. I have no respect or mercy for terrorists but the muslim religion does not promote terrorism either. I think Daniel Lee Ford may have been misinformed. I agree it is hard for americans to read the koran since it is not written in english. I suspect you may also be a republican and I will pray for you. I think there is some good in everyone (a gift from God) although some find terrible/wrong ways to demonstrate it. thank you for your reply. P.S. one more thing, the only utopia is heaven but our time on earth can be less difficult and hurtful than we are making it. interpretation is the key to understanding the bible. God and I truly love all humans.


News Item8/1/05 2:24 PM
Jim from USA,

"It can in no way be christian to hold people in "absolute contempt" for practicing their faith."

Daniel Lee Ford has done an excellent job of clearly demonstrating the contemptible nature of the practicing of the Moslem faith. Nevertheless you will choose to fly in the face of the facts in your pursuit of some post-mnodernist utopia.

Does God ask us to believe the testimony of someone who testifies that they are willing to lie in furtherance of their cause?

Is God a jealous God or does he share His glory with another?


News Item8/1/05 2:01 PM
Jim | USA  
God said to "love all people" It can in no way be christian to hold people in "absolute contempt" for practicing their faith. Most people who call themselves christians are actually fooling themselves and trying to fool others and will surely go to hell (because they do not practice the ideas they preach). The actions of a few should not be used to characterize an entire (and very very large) group of people. I am not a muslim but I think everyone should be able to lead a "good" life no matter what they believe spiritually. You don't need a vengeful god to know the difference between right and wrong regardless of what "christianity" may claim. I believe in peace, love, honesty and compassion.

News Item7/29/05 1:57 PM
Jim | Nebraska  
The judge is correct. There is only one holy Scripture, and that is the Bible. The only that can be done, is for a witness to affirm that they are telling the truth.

News Item7/29/05 11:20 AM
John | San Jose, CA  
Wow! That's quite an inditement of the
sin of FLATTERY...and from "the other
side's" own words, not less.

News Item7/29/05 8:26 AM
Engineer | USA  
I count over 20 VERY clear incitements to lie in the Koran quotes below.
The ACLU might also want to sue to let Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible be used:in LaVey's words, "Oh, how I lie! If a fellow be a churlish lout, I tell him how sensitive and discriminating he is. If a girl is so ugly that she must sneak up on a glass of water, I allude to her great beauty. If one's performance is mediocre at best, I applaud his great talent. I praise the skinflint on his generosity and the hysteric on his levelheaded judiciousness. And it makes them all feel good." (Satan Speaks, pp.101-102)
Lawyers would prefer THIS as their `holy' book, for sure!

News Item7/29/05 7:03 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
You're welcome:
may I suggest the WONDERFUL documentation of Islam:FREE BOOK at


News Item7/29/05 6:53 AM
Well done daniel good work thanks for taking the time

News Item7/29/05 6:52 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor,Mich.  
DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies 1
Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”
Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”
Bukhari:V7B71N661 “Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle and he was bewitched so that he began to imagine doing things which in fact, he had not done.”
Bukhari:V6B60N8 “Umar said, ‘Our best Qur’an reciter is Ubai. And in spite of this, we leave out some of his statements because Allah’s Apostle himself said, “Whatever verse or revelation We abrogate or cause to be forgotten We bring a better one.”
Qur’an 33:11 “In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us.”

News Item7/29/05 6:51 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
Islam and DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies2
Qur’an 33:14 “Say: Flight will not avail you if you flee from death, killing, or slaughter. In that case you will not be allowed to enjoy yourselves but a little while. Say, ‘Who will screen you, saving you from Allah if he intends to harm and injure you?’”
Qur’an 33:21 “You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow.”
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

News Item7/29/05 6:51 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor,Mich.  
Islam and DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies3
Bukhari:V2B24N555 “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Allah hates for you for asking too many questions.’”
Qur’an 89:5 “There surely is an oath for thinking man.”
Qur’an 92:8 “We will make smooth for him the path to misery.”
Ishaq:519 “Hajjaj said to the Apostle, ‘I have money scattered among the Meccan merchants, so give me permission to go and get it.’ Having got Muhammad’s permission, he said, ‘I must tell lies.’ The Apostle said, ‘Tell them.’”
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from a people with whom you have a treaty, retaliate by breaking off relations with them.”
Qur’an 47:24 “Do they not understand the Qur’an? Nay, on the hearts there are locks preventing them from understanding.”
Ishaq:548 “By Allah, the black mass has spread. Abu Bakr said, ‘There is not much honesty among people nowadays.’”
Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them

News Item7/29/05 6:50 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
Islam and DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies4
Qur’an 5:101 “Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.” Qur’an 5:102 “Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account they lost their faith and became disbelievers.”
Ishaq:567 “Muhammad informed Umar [the second Caliph], and he called the Prophet a liar.”

Bukhari:V6B60N662 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Some eloquent speech is as effective as magic.’”
Tabari VI:110 “When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad has repented of [reneged on] what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah. He has altered [the bargain] and brought something else.’ Those two phrases which Satan had cast on Muhammad’s tongue of were in the mouth of every polytheist. The Messenger said, ‘I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.’”


News Item7/29/05 6:48 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
Islam and DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies5
Qur’an 40:32 “O my People! I fear a Day when there will be mutual wailing. No one shall defend you against Allah. Any whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide. That is how Allah leads the skeptic astray.”
Ishaq:248 “Allah has sealed their hearts and their hearing, blinding them so that they will never find guidance. And that is because they have declared you a liar and they do not believe in what has come down from their Lord to you even though they believe in all that came down before you. For opposing you they will have an awful punishment.”
Qur’an 2:6 “As for the disbelievers, it is the same whether you warn them or not; they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts, upon their hearing, and a covering over their eyes. There is a great torment for them.”
Qur’an 2:9 “They deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not! In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease. Grievous is the painful doom they (incur) because they (lie).”

News Item7/29/05 6:47 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
Islam and DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies6
Qur’an 8:18 “This and surely; Allah weakens the deceitful plots of unbelieving infidels.”
Qur’an 8:30 “Remember how the unbelievers plotted against you (Muhammad). They plotted, and Allah too had arranged a plot; but Allah is the best schemer.” Ishaq:323 “I am the best of plotters. I deceived them with My guile so that I delivered you from them.”
Qur’an 8:49 “When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘The religion has deceived and misled them.’”
Qur’an 8:71 “If they try to deceive you, remember they have deceived Allah before.”
Tabari VII:85/Ishaq:363 “The Jews of the Qaynuqa replied, ‘Muhammad, do you think that we are like your people? Do not be deluded by the fact that you met a people with no knowledge and you made good use of your opportunity.’”
Ishaq:365/Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”

News Item7/29/05 6:47 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
DECEPTION: Mohammed's sanctioning of lies7
Bukhari:V5B59N369 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”
Qur’an 61:5 “Moses said: ‘O my people, why do you annoy and insult me, when you well know I am Allah’s Messenger?’ Then when they turned away, Allah caused them to be deceived.”
Bukhari:V4B52N233 “Allah’s Apostle forbade the people to travel to a hostile country carrying copies of the Qur’an. [He said:] Unbelievers will never understand our signs and revelations.”
Ishaq:248 “Allah increases their sickness. A tormented doom awaits the Jews. Allah said, ‘They are mischief makers. They are fools. The Jews deny the truth and contradict what the Apostle has brought. I will mock them and let them continue to wander blindly.’”
Bukhari:V4B52N147 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A man may seem as if he were practicing the deeds of Paradise while in fact he is from the people of Hell.’”
Qur’an 13:27 “Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.’”

News Item7/29/05 6:45 AM
Daniel Lee Ford | Spring Arbor, Mich.  
Qur’an 3:24 “They have been deceived by the lies they have themselves fabricated; their religion has deceived them.”
Ishaq:397 “Then Allah said, ‘It is not for any prophet to deceive.”
Ishaq:442 “By Muhammad’s order we beguiled them.”
Tabari VIII:23 “The Messenger and his Companions continued in the fear and distress that Allah has described in the Qur’an. Then Nu’aym came to the Prophet. ‘I ‘ve become a Muslim, but my tribe does not know of my Islam; so command me whatever you will.’ Muhammad said, ‘Make them abandon each other if you can so that they will leave us; for war is deception.’”
Ishaq:496 “‘By Allah you lie,’ one said to another. ‘Liar yourself!’ ‘You are a disaffected person arguing on behalf of the diseased.”

News Item7/28/05 10:58 PM
Craig | USA  
This is a very serious situation in which we find ourselves today. Getting excited that Secularists and Muslims are dismantling the 1700 years of Christian influence on Western nations is ridiculous. In that case, the best thing that could happen would be to turn our nation entirely over to Muslims and sit back in derision as they butcher innocent people and trash our heritage. I hope we are being facetious.
Paul swearing in a court of law on the Bible was impossible. The issue is whether the prohibition on oaths and swearing is absolute or whether it refers to sinful swearing and oath taking. The fact that Paul used more than no and yes in his letters and for instance took jewish ceremonial vows shows that the "anabaptist" view of this important scriptural teaching cannot be true.
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