It is just empty rhetoric to get your vote as a means to their cushy lifestyle.

But the Bible presents faith as neither of these. It is a supernatural gift of God's grace whereby we are convinced of the reliability of God and his promises. Paul's prayer for the persecuted Thessalonians was;
2 Thessalonians 3:2 and that we may be delivered from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith.

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
Tell me .. do you believe Jonathan Edwards was a calvinist?

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
I am what may be termed a moderate calvinist

Mike wrote:
Looks like some think that of all the times "faith" is written in Scripture, it means the same thing in every case.

John UK wrote:
Faith is not always for salvation.

Clearly the problem here displayed by your ethics as much as by your lack of theological understanding is that you just can't read the Bible.

As for your colleague C.U. Perhaps his posts will change when he grows up??
One can but hope.

Goodbye John UK. Your attitude cannot be described as Christian. But it did provide an insight for me into the heretical dogma of the Arminian error, enhancing my belief in the Reformed way, which is clearly the true path. So thankyou at least for that.

John UK wrote:
Nothing in this verse about saving faith either.

Now you tell us that this FAITH provided by the Lord does *NOT* SAVE???

OK John - you obviously teach TWO faiths provided by GOD!
One I assume you infer may save?
But let me ask you to please clarify what the OTHER faith is for and what does it achieve???

John wrote:
like me knows that you are not claiming an ability in man which he does not possess. Am I right in saying that the faculty which can believe or trust, is a faculty of the natural man? And that in the awakened man, this faculty is able to trust in Jesus Christ....
Or something akin to that?

John UK wrote:
Wrong again Kindle, you don't know the difference between misconstrue and misquote alas, and I will prove that tomorrow.

This being so I can only hope the Holy Spirit may guide you into the real Biblical Truth of the source of Saving Faith. Giving the glory only unto God alone.

One thing is for sure. Only the chosen and elect of God will be justified and saved by God alone, on the merits of Christ Crucified alone, - without any aid or cooperation or faculty of mortal man.

The Bible clearly teaches that God does not require human help or acquiescence to save.

God be with you.
_______________

John UK wrote:
my questions to CU which you misquoted

C. U. wrote:
What I have been arguing against is that faith is a new faculty, or a new ability that man did not possess before.

John wrote:
Even a turnip like me knows that you are not claiming an ability in man which he does not possess. Am I right in saying that the faculty which can believe or trust, is a faculty of the natural man? And that in the awakened man, this faculty is able to trust in Jesus Christ as having died for his sin

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
What then happens in conversion? These brainwashed Hyper Calvs say, why he is given an ability which he never possessed before

In point of fact Hyper-C is closer to Arminianism than Calvinism.

But I am encouraged by the fact that your name calling is a desperate attempt to enhance your erroneous conviction that the sinner in his natural estate can actually cooperate with God to be saved.

Hence your desperate attempts to validate a human faculty of "saving faith" in the pre-regenerate sinner.

Jn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John UK wrote:
You sought to misquote me by taking phrases out of my post which made me appear to be saying things which I did not say.

John
The debate between the advocate of "free will" - YOUR position -AND the opposing position of Sovereignty of God at the pre/post-regeneration stage of man has been going on for 2000 years.
We observe the debate for example in the 5th century between Augustine and Pelagius.
And as Martin Luther stated the seed of the Differences in the Reformation was "FREE WILL" - Then a few years later Arminius came along with his Free will arguement. Never mind the ancient Semi-Pelagianism position highlighted by the Lutherans. And that including the "grace" changes taught by Wesley.

The great thing about the Calvinist postion is that throughout all these centuries WE have NOT changed on this - YOUR side did several modifications.

The Synod of Dordt proved this to be heresy. The Reformed Church today continue to stand for the Biblical Doctrines of Grace - AGAINST the heresy of the sinners free will to choose salvation without divine assistance.

John UK wrote:
Ah well, I must not be too hard on you. One day you will understand, and then you can take all that egg off your face. And maybe eat an H pie or two. Good on yer, pal. I will pray that the Lord teach you by his Spirit, and that you may come to love the Bible and Bible believers.

2Tim 2.15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth"

John UK wrote:
1] Am I right in saying that the faculty which can believe or trust, is a faculty of the natural man?

2]And that in the awakened man, this faculty is able to trust in Jesus Christ as having died for his sin, something which previously he was not able to do?

BUT as we can see plainly in front of us John says quote, "which can believe or trust" = THUS John teaches the sinner in his natural estate *CAN* believe???

2] John goes on to declare quote, "this faculty is able to trust in Jesus Christ" - The SAME depraved faculty is TRANSFERRED into the believer *AS CAPABLE* of belief unto salvation??? = THUS who needs the Holy Spirit? Who needs grace? Salvation apparently is in the hands of the sinner dead in sin and at enmity with God?

John proclaims that quote, "the faculty WHICH CAN believe or trust, IS A FACULTY OF THE NATURAL MAN"

# And *THIS* is what moniker "calvinist understanding" declares is "savy theology"

Calvinist Understanding wrote:
For a turnip you are one savy theologian
A whole bible man - mind and heart- my kinda of guy! Bless you bro!

# Roman Catholic Arminianism
# Salvation by the works of man.
# Coming to Christ on human faculty - PRE regeneration.

I don't know if either of you can perceive the truth in Scripture but it states....

"But the natural man **RECEIVETH NOT** the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

May the Lord bring you to His whole counsel. Amen!

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and RENEWING of the Holy Ghost"

John UK wrote:
Am I right in saying that the faculty which can believe or trust, is a faculty of the natural man? And that in the awakened man, this faculty is able to trust in Jesus Christ as having died for his sin, something which previously he was not able to do?
Or something akin to that?

Does "born again" kindle any flame in the grey cell?

However you and CU should make it abundantly clear to one and all that you are devout Arminians! - AND you wouldn't know the Biblical Doctines of Grace from Roman catholic dogma if you tried.

An honest confession would suffice fellas.

Here is a shocking truth for you! - Man cannot save himself! Man contributes zero nil nothing to salvation.

And I thought John liked Charlie Spurgeon???