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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  9/23/2014
TUESDAY, NOV 12, 2013  |  124 comments
Retired Police Officer Arrested for Sharing Gospel in New Jersey Mall

A retired police officer was arrested and charged with trespassing this week for witnessing to patrons of a New Jersey mall.

David Wells is a former corporal with the Long Branch Police Department, and over the past year, he has spent time sharing his faith at the Monmouth Mall in Eatontown. Wells says that he likes to distribute materials from Ray Comfort’s Living Waters Publications to shoppers in hopes that it will cause them to ponder matters of eternity. This past week, he handed out Comfort’s trillion dollar bill tract while asking a “trillion dollar” question.

“I simply approached individuals and asked them if I could ask them a question. If they said no, I left them alone,” Wells explained. “If they said yes I simply asked, ‘Are you going to Heaven?’ How I responded was based on how they answered that question.”

Wells states that he has witnessed to mall patrons in the presence of ...


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christiannews.net

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COMMENTS | show all | add new  
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· Page 1 ·  Found: 124 user comment(s)
News Item11/19/13 10:13 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Did we lose Ken in this discussion?
124

News Item11/18/13 5:40 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
I agree brother. There are many things that happened to us at the moment the Lord saved us; some we knew at that moment and other things we learned about as time went on. But none-the-less, we are all disciples of our Lord from the first moment of our adoption. To deny that "at any time following our conversions" would cause serious doubt as to whether we are in the faith or not.
Getting old so I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.
There may be a proverb bro which say, "Old tongue understood by old ear".

As a Pilgrim, I have had many adventures, and been with many different types of churches. In the charismatic churches, whenever you come across a supposed disciple who maybe still swears or gambles or drinks a lot, they say, "Oh, we think he had a bad birth."

By which they mean that his born again experience was somehow faulty.

Eh? Such a lack of understanding!

I never really met hardly any disciples in that movement. Their doctrine was false, their services were man-centred, their claims never came to pass, and their congregations were made up of people who had "a bad birth".

Sure, I was a raw recruit myself, but Jesus was my Lord from Day One.

123

News Item11/18/13 5:29 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
Amen indeed!
To further US's cause, as he hasn't mentioned yet what his point would be about the d word:
Acts 9:26 KJV
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Surely the word disciple is interchangeable with "Christian" or "believer" or "saint". So that at the moment of salvation, a person becomes a disciple right then; not thinking about it several years later and saying, "Hmmmm, maybe it's time for me to make Jesus Lord of my life".
I agree brother. There are many things that happened to us at the moment the Lord saved us; some we knew at that moment and other things we learned about as time went on. But none-the-less, we are all disciples of our Lord from the first moment of our adoption. To deny that "at any time following our conversions" would cause serious doubt as to whether we are in the faith or not.

Getting old so I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.

My wife's tablet died, so off to the store to spend the rest of the kids inheritance.

122

News Item11/18/13 5:07 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
Amen Pilgrim!
[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. [10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Mat 4:8-10 KJV)
Amen indeed!

To further US's cause, as he hasn't mentioned yet what his point would be about the d word:

Acts 9:26 KJV
26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

Surely the word disciple is interchangeable with "Christian" or "believer" or "saint". So that at the moment of salvation, a person becomes a disciple right then; not thinking about it several years later and saying, "Hmmmm, maybe it's time for me to make Jesus Lord of my life".

121

News Item11/18/13 4:43 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
John UK wrote:
And I would agree Frank. It is unthinkable to be saved without submission to The Master.
Matthew 10:24-25 KJV
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Amen Pilgrim!

[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. [10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Mat 4:8-10 KJV)

120

News Item11/18/13 4:07 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Frank wrote:
U.S. and John Uk; thanks for the wonderful comments. Both of you have blessed me today.
I think I can sum up the differences between Ken's thoughts and the way I think. To me discipleship is synonymous with being a true believer. Now I may in fact be a poor disciple (or an unprofitable one ) but if I'm not a disciple of Christ, then I don't belong to Him and never did. Now when I became saved, I certainly didn't understand what it meant to be a disciple, but from day one, I always understood that was necessary.
Anyway, for what it is worth, that is the way I tend to look at the differences between EB and Lordship Salvation. EB does not entertain the idea of discipleship. My guess is Ken would not say that discipleship was necessary and I would.
And I would agree Frank. It is unthinkable to be saved without submission to The Master.

Matthew 10:24-25 KJV
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

119

News Item11/18/13 2:53 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Frank wrote:
U.S. and John Uk; thanks for the wonderful comments. Both of you have blessed me today.
I think I can sum up the differences between Ken's thoughts and the way I think. To me discipleship is synonymous with being a true believer. Now I may in fact be a poor disciple (or an unprofitable one ) but if I'm not a disciple of Christ, then I don't belong to Him and never did. Now when I became saved, I certainly didn't understand what it meant to be a disciple, but from day one, I always understood that was necessary.
Anyway, for what it is worth, that is the way I tend to look at the differences between EB and Lordship Salvation. EB does not entertain the idea of discipleship. My guess is Ken would not say that discipleship was necessary and I would.
Good to hear from you Frank, trust all is well! Thank you for your kind comment. You brought up the dreaded d word of which I spoke earlier. Not wanting to put words in Ken's mouth so will wait for his response on that. No discussion of that topic is complete with out the acceptance that when our Lord said what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his own soul is a verse about salvation.
118

News Item11/18/13 1:52 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
U.S. and John Uk; thanks for the wonderful comments. Both of you have blessed me today.

I think I can sum up the differences between Ken's thoughts and the way I think. To me discipleship is synonymous with being a true believer. Now I may in fact be a poor disciple (or an unprofitable one ) but if I'm not a disciple of Christ, then I don't belong to Him and never did. Now when I became saved, I certainly didn't understand what it meant to be a disciple, but from day one, I always understood that was necessary.

Anyway, for what it is worth, that is the way I tend to look at the differences between EB and Lordship Salvation. EB does not entertain the idea of discipleship. My guess is Ken would not say that discipleship was necessary and I would.

117

News Item11/18/13 12:40 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
The Bible is clear no amount of works produces faith. It is also clear all genuine faith produces works. (James 2. etc.) The Lord says he gives to us eternal life, life has one common characteristic, it grows. (Ephesians 2:21 -all the body grows) When our Lord talked about the new birth he compared it to the wind. What do we know about the wind,although we cannot see the source we can see the effects. Romans 8 reminds us if there is no mortifying of sin by the Spirit there is no life. Hebrews 12:14 tell us to pursue (follow after) holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. It cannot be imparted holiness as we are to pursue it and the verb in the Greek is present (continuous, habitual action) active (the subject performs the action) imperative (a command) No holiness in the life of the professor of faith then no genuine faith. II Peter 2:20-22 talks of false professions. In I John 1 says if we say we have fellowship with him and the pattern of our life is darkness, we lie. If we say we know Him and keep not His commandments, we lie. This is in a book about how to know you have eternal life. Titus 2:11-14, lots of good stuff there, including redeem us FROM not in iniquity.

This is not so called Lordship salvation, this is the clear teaching of the Word of God.

116

News Item11/18/13 11:24 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
I believe that at the heart of the Christian life is this exhortation.

Galatians 6:2 KJV
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Sounds simple enough, but to accomplish it, we need to know what different burdens different brethren and sisters are carrying.

I reckon that Ken has a burden which has erupted in the form of claiming heresy for those who preach turning from sin to God for their salvation. What causes such? Does Ken, in common with every other Christian, have a besetting sin which causes him much anguish, fighting it and often losing? Is that it?

Now Unprofitable Servant has furnished many scriptures showing that in the NT, men "turned from idols to serve the living and true God", thus showing that repentance is indeed a turning from ungodliness in order to receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour. But Ken has ignored such scripture proofs. Maybe he is unhappy with the level of his repentance, as though there was a pass mark required by God. Maybe there are some things he doesn't even want to repent of. Maybe he feels more secure focussing on what Jesus Christ has done for him, and leave his sanctification up to him.

Perhaps he has some doubts because his experience doesn't seem strictly biblical. What is it, Ken?

115

News Item11/18/13 10:37 AM
wwjd | usa  Find all comments by wwjd
Ken, the way you 'get' saved, going to an altar,lying on your death bed, reading a tract handed out at a rock concert, praying at home, it does not matter how God reachers you, the important thing is that He reaches you. That you see your sinful life and yourself as needing a saviour, next step you are so sorry that you have sinned and so you turn from that sinful life toward Jesus and believe in your heart that He died to save you from that sinful life and you may be
emotional or it maybe just a decision you make it doesn't matter, what matters is how you live your life afterwards. Do you continue to practice sin as before, has your desire to obey Christ increased and you seek ways to show your for Him and all He's done. It's a process of growing, learning and part of that is daily prayer,reading and studying His word and being His witness to others. Jesus gives us His Holy Spirit to guide, comfort and teach us and most of all He loves us and forgives us when we do sin( like David, and others that failed at times).Thats when you repent and ask forgiveness and restore that broken fellowship you had with Him, which John UK so wonderfully describes in the last post. God bless.
114

News Item11/18/13 9:07 AM
penny  Find all comments by penny
JOhn UK et al, thank you for the edifying words today!
113

News Item11/18/13 6:14 AM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Ken wrote:
I hope I never left the impression that I don't think "repentance" is not needed. Yes it is biblical and it is needed before and after conversion. It's just the way it is being used by some today, especially when presenting the gospel is being misused. That's all
Well Ken the way you've been using the word "repentance" is to turn from unbelief to belief.

However, I think your use of the expression easy-believism is incorrect, and is the reason for misunderstanding. Simple trust in Jesus Christ for justification is not the same as EB.

For eg. You sit reading a Chick tract. You believe what you read. On the back is a sinner's prayer. You read it out loud. You say Amen. Then it says you should go tell someone you are a Christian. [EB]

Now you tell me how many out of an hundred would have a genuine conversion by doing that.

Christianity is far more glorious than that. It is a resurrection from the dead, passing from death to life. It is coming out of darkness into light. It is being rescued from Satan's grip into the freedom of serving Christ. It is having the shackles removed. It is being adopted into God's family. It is being baptised with the Spirit, forgiven and cleansed, freed from the power and condemnation of sin.

112

News Item11/18/13 12:37 AM
Lurker  Protected NameFind all comments by Lurker
Ken wrote:
But if I'm taught "if you really love god you'll change all your ways", and it's not of the Holy Spirit working through me, then that's of my own actions, and that would be works of my own. Then I would feel like I had to do this plus faith in order to really be saved and that's not true salvation.
True, Ken.

I think Jesus summed up what you are attempting to articulate.....

Jhn 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

When the Son calls, it's always successful.

The problem lies in too many preachers trying to make sheep out of goats so their pews (and pockets) will be full. I pity these hirelings when they have to answer to God for saying "This saith the Lord" when He never spoke.

1Cr 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Preach the unadulterated gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation, and leave the results in His capable hands. If God is calling one of His own, they will hear and follow for He, who cannot lie, said so.

Thanks for the exchange, Ken. Actually pretty close to being on topic.

111

News Item11/17/13 10:20 PM
Ken  Find all comments by Ken
I hope I never left the impression that I don't think "repentance" is not needed. Yes it is biblical and it is needed before and after conversion. It's just the way it is being used by some today, especially when presenting the gospel is being misused. That's all
110

News Item11/17/13 10:13 PM
Ken  Find all comments by Ken
Sorry Us. Thanks for the response.yes about the comment. I was merely speaking about certain evangalist who speak messages like such and that I find that to be a very arrogant message to those who are lost.
Now this whole point of view all comes from watching certain evangalist who preach "repent of all your sins" message along with the gospel. And they clearly state that's what they mean when they say that, to quit sinning. As of matter of fact not long ago I watched repeated videos from Ray Comfort speaking that very message to lost sinners. That's where I'm coming from and simply trying to state that's not right.
109

News Item11/17/13 5:08 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Hey Ken, I see you in hands of real Bible Scholars, like Luker, John UK and GS and I hope that one not in their league may address some of the issues being discussed. Also, ditto to GS statement appreciate your spirit.

Verses about Lordship salvation

The Scripture knows of no division between Lord and Savior. See Luke 2:11, note Peter's terminology in salvation messages (Acts 2:36,39, 10:36) What Paul said in Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-13, also when speaking of the preaching of the gospel, he said in II Corinthians 4:5(KJV) "For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; ..."

Again, if you are addressing those who say to the individual that they must give up this, and "make Jesus Lord", to be saved, We agree, the flesh profits nothing, but salvation is not by the will of man but of God (John 1:12,13) The ones who have been born for above (John 3) granted faith and repentance by God, are subjects of the work of the Spirit in their lives not the works of flesh. (John 3:6)

I would hope you bear with me so I may address your comments in your 11/17/13 2:12 AM post about, "a true believe has to show evidence that they are saved by obedience to Christ, and if they don't they were never really saved In the first place." Running out of characters and time for now.

108

News Item11/17/13 3:27 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Hi Ken,

It may interest you to know that Lordship Salvationists hold these good doctrines in common with all believers:

"There are many articles of faith that are fundamental to all evangelical teaching. For example, there is agreement among all believers on the following truths: (1) Christ's death purchased eternal salvation; (2) the saved are justified by grace through faith in Christ alone; (3) sinners cannot earn divine favor; (4) God requires no preparatory works or pre-salvation reformation; (5) eternal life is a gift of God; (6) believers are saved before their faith ever produces any righteous works; and (7) Christians can and do sin, sometimes horribly."

Just from this paragraph alone, you can see the belief in salvation by grace apart from works, and that no sinner can earn salvation. So you see that you were misled into thinking wrongly of LS's.

Where from, you ask?

John MacArthur's short introductory study on the distinctives of LORDSHIP SALVATION

I think this easily read article will convince you of the biblical position of repentance and faith being inseparable.

107

News Item11/17/13 1:30 PM
GsTexas | Texas  Find all comments by GsTexas
I agree Ken, I was talking more about those who claim Christianity, yet live like the devil all week long except the couple of hours a week they are in church. We will struggle with sin until the day we die because our flesh has not been redeemed. The difference between a true Christian and a false convert is that a true Christian will exhibit the fruits of their faith, whereas the false convert has no fruit to show for it, except a superficial church attendance, and professional of faith. David was a man after Gods own heart, yet repeatedly failed him. Paul considered himself chief of sinners, and a wretched man. Yet these two great men of God very obviously have the fruit of their faith. Romans chapters 6,7,8 are a good read on this subject.
106

News Item11/17/13 1:07 PM
Ken  Find all comments by Ken
No Gs. I never took it as thats what you were stating. I'm just speaking in general. I'm mostly asking if that's what the L.S. belief or aditude was towards certain belivers was, and if so that's how I felt about the matter. Like I said I don't claim to be a L.S.im just saying that was my impression.
Gs. To be honest with you, I agree with you that yes there should be a change in someone after being saved wether great or small changes.
But to look at someone and make the assumption that if they're a real christian they'll never fall out of the race.(fellowship). I try to be down to earth about the matter because I've been their. Honestly, I've strived so hard to seek God and go all out for him that I've ended up burning myself out. Then I'm asking God for strength to get back up and press forth. I'm saying, that just because a believer isn't fully in the faith or maybe there struggling, to classify them as not a real christian, would be wrong. Like I said earlier, your either a christian or your not. You either believe or you don't.
You've either put all your trust in Christ or you haven't.
105
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