After several years of study, the Episcopal Church has released a draft of what same-sex marriage rites would look like. An important caveat: these are just drafts, and it will likely be years before any final liturgy is approved for official use across the church.
The report’s theological reflection notes that the SCLM [Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music] has reviewed more than 30 years of General Convention’s deliberation on same-gender couples, especially [a] resolution approved in 2000, that identified characteristics the Church expects of couples living in marriage and other lifelong committed relationships: “fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, careful, honest communication, and the holy love which enables those in such relationships to see in each other the image of God.”
“Such covenantal relationships can reflect God‘s own gracious covenant with us in Christ,...
When the church is deflated, family is decimated and government and commerce are pumped up, this train ride ends right where we are today. Big Healthcare, Big Education (both underwritten by tax dollars), a withering church and shell-shocked families encounter yet another Western "choice": same-sex "marriage."
Then dump in millions of unemployed and uninsured hurting, sick and dying every year.
Stir thoroughly.
The problem is profound. The solution isn't tidy. The individual Christian remains responsible for every hurting, sick and dying person God places on his path.
Mandate wrote: If your democracy could provide either taxpayer-funded education or healthcare, which would more closely resemble Jesus' mandate to "love thy neighbor"?
Neither is relevant to that Commandment. The state's role (be it a “democracy” or anything else) is negative, to be a terror to evildoers, Rom. 13:3. The sword is not an instrument of education or healing.
If your democracy could provide either taxpayer-funded education or healthcare, which would more closely resemble Jesus' mandate to "love thy neighbor" -- albeit on a grand scale? Also, at least with healthcare, a subversive worldview wouldn't be as much a factor.
XP wrote: The common thread is loving and caring for one's neighbor. The challenge is paying for this on a vast scale (far beyond the scope of Jesus' good SamaritanJ.
Bad analogy; the Good Samaritan paid for the mugging victim's expenses out of his OWN POCKET, not someone else's, & w/o compulsion from Judea or Rome (BTW Rome had gov't welfare, the Corn Dole). There is nothing charitable about forcing a person to pay for his neighbor's accidental expenses, unless he materially injured the latter. This is the fundamental error of "Christian" Socialism (or Democracy as Europeans often label it). It does not logically follow that the Biblical injunction to practice personal charity implies a need for the Welfare State.
In fact true charity is undermined by it; why help your neighbor when he can get a bureaucrat to solve his problems instead?
After the fall of the Roman government, that bishop carried the water for centuries and the Gospel (Nicene Creed) to the far-flung corners of the Empire. Over time, a Christianization occurred especially in Europe. Charity proceeded apace and eventually clinics and centers of learning (monasteries) arose to meet the needs of the people. Later these became the Catholic Hospital and University systems we're thankful for today.
Meanwhile democracy and capitalism were perfected in Western nations which developed today's healthcare system.
The common thread is loving and caring for one's neighbor. The challenge is paying for this on a vast scale (far beyond the scope of Jesus' good Samaritan).
With the good Samaritan older and now a bit senile, how do you prevent him from killing off young and old to reduce his healthcare system cost?
Having a healthcare system of US scale isn't wrong, it's simply difficult to administer. That's why all the fuss in Washington.
Make it work but without elective abortion, abortifacient, sterilization or euthanasia components.
Bishop X wrote: Which Episcopalian bishop is linking arms with the 180+ Roman Catholic bishops to oppose same-sex marriage and abortifacient contraception?
I'd be more impressed if the majority of bishops stood opposed. Is your 180+ a majority? Where are the rest? Where was the RCC when most RC's voted for Obama in the first place? Why are you being distracted now by contraception, when Obamacare itself is a major corruption and threat to religious as well as secular liberty? Will you feel successful if contraception is removed from it? Are you aware that the purpose of the distraction is to get the focus on a detail or two, so that the majority of it will be left alone when the detail or two is dropped? You like being worked?
Which Episcopalian bishop is linking arms with the 180+ Roman Catholic bishops to oppose same-sex marriage and abortifacient contraception?
Mike wrote: RCC vs liberal Protestants. 6 of 1, etc. In the end they will join together to oppose Christians, while imagining they are doing God's work. Brings to mind what Yul Brynner once said, "So it shall be written, so it shall be done."
RCC vs liberal Protestants. 6 of 1, etc. In the end they will join together to oppose Christians, while imagining they are doing God's work. Brings to mind what Yul Brynner once said, "So it shall be written, so it shall be done."
water wrote: Satan works to bring the papal antichrist and his followers into power and authority in the nations to confound and confuse along with other false churches.
Only confusing if one's in league with the culture of death. All faers are inadvertently heading that way.
flamethrower wrote: This was the Reformers' intent
The Reformation was ordained by God to remove the Church from blasphemous weird pagan Roman practices like worshipping dumb idols and rediculous relics etc etc etc.
But during the last two centuries history has recorded that the church doctrines have backslidden into hellish and heretical practices and denominations which are no longer or even never were Christian, have emerged. During these predicted times "false teachings" and "damnable heresies" and "pernicious ways" (2Peter 2:1,2), the Roman blasphemous and idolatrous heresy following the papal antichrtist has made a come back. Which of course is no surprise in these modern times of apostasy. Satan works to bring the papal antichrist and his followers into power and authority in the nations to confound and confuse along with other false churches.
Geography wrote: 2) The Reformation was ordained by God to remove the Church from...
This was the Reformers' intent. However, in practice and to their posthumous chagrin, their metastasized legacy is an ultimate tool of social destruction. Every day, it seems, another Reformed denomination salutes the mainlines' schemes. All predictable by the thinking man on the street.
Reformation wrote: 1) Mainline stalwarts including the CoE, CoS, ECUSA, PC(USA), ELCA and the UCC continue the Reformation in the social justice arena. For this, many liberals, and the majority of Englanders and Americans are thankful.
2) Long live the Reformation, that is, if you're liberal or just blatantly hate God.
"Englanders"??? I see the Scots, Welsh and Irish have disappeared off the face of the geographical map again.
2) The Reformation was ordained by God to remove the Church from blasphemous weird pagan Roman practices like worshipping dumb idols and rediculous relics etc etc etc.
Corinthians 1 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised, God has chosen, the things that are not, that He might nullify the things that are, 29 that no man should boast before God.---NASB
Dave Shiflett wrote: …This consuming public–people who already believe, … who want their children to believe–go to church to learn about the mysterious Truth on which the Christian religion is built. They want the Good News, not the minister’s political views or intellectual coaching. The latter creates sprawling vacancies in the pews. Indeed, those empty pews can be considered the earthly reward for abandoning heaven, traditionally understood.
Reformation wrote: Mainline stalwarts including the CoE, CoS, ECUSA, PC(USA), ELCA and the UCC continue the Reformation in the social justice arena. For this, many liberals, and the majority of Englanders and Americans are thankful. Anyone who thinks logically or who has a college education would agree that this was all predictable in the 16th Century. Once the Reformation started rolling down the tracks, it would eventually develop such explosive momentum as it blasted through the Bible, splintered into 1,000s of chunks, that each of these would wreak untold global havoc. And now for something completely new in church history, and this from one of these chunks of the "church": "Same-sex marriage rites."
It's what happens when Reformation is sought rather than Restoration. A little leaven and all that. But well within the prophetic reality that it is the few find their way, and the many who walk the broad way that leads to destruction. If you find Rome growing ever larger due to influx from protestants dropping out of their various denominations, do not cheer, but consider your eternal destiny, pray for God to reveal his truth to you. Will you be among the few, or the many?
Mainline stalwarts including the CoE, CoS, ECUSA, PC(USA), ELCA and the UCC continue the Reformation in the social justice arena. For this, many liberals, and the majority of Englanders and Americans are thankful.
Anyone who thinks logically or who has a college education would agree that this was all predictable in the 16th Century. Once the Reformation started rolling down the tracks, it would eventually develop such explosive momentum as it blasted through the Bible and splintered into 100s of chunks, that each of these would wreak untold global havoc. Collateral damage would be so widespread that even the few Bible-orthodox chunks would be devastated.
And now for something completely different in church history, and this from one of the more progressive chunks of the "church":
"Same-sex marriage rites."
Long live the Reformation, that is, if you're liberal or just blatantly hate God.
Only wrote: --- With 500 years of this continuous passive leadership, it's not wonder that fleets of conservative congregations are hoisting sails for Rome.
"... a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"
“fidelity, monogamy, mutual affection and respect, careful, honest communication, and the holy love which enables those in such relationships to see in each other the image of God.”
This crowd is trying to cover up blatant wickedness with flowery language but God is not deceived with their deception & in spite of the credit crunch the Wages of Sin are still the same
Only wrote: With 500 years of this continuous passive leadership, it's not wonder that fleets of conservative congregations are hoisting sails for Rome.
Only an idolater would go back to Rome and its silly relics and dumb idols which they use to replace God in worship.
The Episcopalian/Anglican church reflects the signs of the times we live in. Liberalism is just another satanic heretical influence which destroys what is real church and true doctrine. Peter reveals this back in his day in 2Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of."
Here we hear the same story of Liberal heresy and the Roman Catholic heretical religious teachings. Now that Satan has finished with graven images, relics and idols he in his subtle ways has introduced Liberalism to refute Scripture and raise the creature and his "wisdom" (Rom 1:22) above what they see as primitive early writers of Scripture, who got it wrong.
With shackles crushed, slaves set free, America grows accustomed, so too are Americans already celebrating the freedom of lovers entering gay matrimony.
The Church of England and its unintended reformation is now a primary Reformer advancing these many human freedoms (abortion in every conceivable form, female preachers, gay bishops, no-fault marriage, same-sex marriage, etc).
With 500 years of this continuous passive leadership, it's not wonder that fleets of conservative congregations are hoisting sails for Rome.
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