â€śThe Bible really cares about the dynamic between men and women. It has nothing to do with a womanâ€™s incompetency,â€ť Piper said during a 40-minute Q&A session at a recent seminar, â€śLet the Nations Be Glad!â€ť organized by the Desiring God ministry.
â€śA manâ€™s headship in the home is not based on his being superiorly competency,â€ť said Piper, the pastor for preaching at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minn., as he responded to the question of whatâ€™s the place of women in missions.
I was in Africa for a Family Conference in 1998. Now I grant that was sometime ago, but at the time, I was amazed at the apparent contrast of openness to the Word of God compared with here in the West. Yes, there were the common struggles among believers to deal with; misunderstanding seemed to be the biggest problem, from preconceived ideas and assumption that got in the way unless guarded against. A gentle answer returned for offense would clear things up quickly, it was family in the church. There was a great hunger for truth among the young people and the foreigners not indigenous to that nation. They were very easy to engage in conversation and curious. Most knew English. The indigenous Churches clearly had a creativity for evangelism in meeting the needs of their country men. Being a foreigner I had the advantage of being different and interesting for that reason. There were so many orphans and young adults that were with siblings, and not their mother and father. These desired the opportunity to be with older folks and their respectful deportment was breath taking. I remember a 17 year old who was my instructor in cultural respect, to my own shame. I have pleasant memories of the warmth of his smile or the look of fear due to my cultural ignorance.
Another good book for VRE to read by Elisabeth Elliot is "Keep a Quiet Heart." When I was first casting off my feminist mindset, it was a great blessing to me. Feminism is so ingrained in our culture, that we often don't realize how much we are influenced until confronted with the Word of God.
VRE, the last person you would want to quote to make your point is Elizabeth Elliot. Perhaps a good read of "Let Me Be a Woman" would give you a more whole-life perspective on male and female (not just an anatomy issue but a whole person body/soul/spirit) and her article in Christianity Today, 1975, "Why I Oppose the Ordination of Women" would be helpful as well. The thousands of Christian ladies that you mentioned may not necessarily agree with you either. A woman missionary is usually glad to have a male pastor/family around for support and treads carefully in cultures that aren't as gentile (or flippant) about gender issues. A woman missionary in countries where there is much female brutality is able to find endless ways of sharing the gospel, what more ways for a western woman. If she is called to teach, she must --- scriptures call the older woman to teach the younger women. And let us not forget that the less visible needs can be served by a Christian lady. Just as there are separate bathroom stalls, there needs to be a healthy separation between men and women who are not married. Consider a man struggling with an addiction, should a pastor woman be closing doors and letting him cry on her shoulder? Even male pastor would bring elder woman to help pregnant girl.
In response to: "How does your denomination explain these verses to lost female executives?" It was reported on NBC Nightly News yesterday that more younger women are refusing high power/paying positions because they want to have a life and spend more time with their family... So, I think a lost female executive just might be ready for the true Gospel and the pure teaching/preaching of God's Word.
interesting wrote: How does your denomination explain these verses to lost female executives?
We always rely on the Holy Spirit to convert all people male and female. HE doesn't appear to be too concerned with their status or occupation.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
Your opinion matters very little here... You have not once used the Bible to back up your view and the reason why... If you actually use the Bible you cant back up your view. If you want to preach femonism thats great but please dont call it Christian. Call it whatever you want but what your preaching is anti-christian, and before you respond again with your own opinion try backing up your view using scripture.
VRE wrote: Carmichael, Elliot, Moon and 1000s of other Christian ladies who are sharing the Gospel across every continent are ineffective instruments in God's hands? If this word gets out it could really put a crimp on the missionary movement since a large percentage of them are female. God help the unbelieving man who is stranded on a deserted island and the only person to reach him is a Christian missionary.
There is NO such thing as a "missionary movement".
Except, of course, in the cults and false churches like the RCC.
God's plan is for the gospel to be communicated by every genuine, born again disciple, no matter where in the world they find themselves. This is called "witnessing", and it is to be accomplished in the power of the Holy Ghost. The biblical precedent for this, regarding women, is the whoring woman in Samaria who, when convinced that Jesus is the Messiah, stopped all her daily round to go tell several men and women in the village about her newfound Saviour.
This is a far cry from her setting off to the synagogue to stand and preach to the audience.
When and if you get converted, you will be able to do the same and be a witness to Christ.
elaros wrote: GOD SAID... "11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
* "[Women are to] learn in silence." * "[Women are to be in] all subjection [to men]." * "I [do not allow] a woman to teach [a man]." * "[I do not allow a woman] to usurp authority over the man." * "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
How does your denomination explain these verses to lost female executives?
As has been clearly pointed out Scripture is clear on the matter of who is called to be a "pastor". I do not state this in a perjorative manner towards Christian women, but I respectfully submit that there is something to be said about the connection to Eve being decieved by the serpent in the garden and the role of pastor being for qualified men. Modern church history is replete with women playing strong leadership roles in movements that ultimately ended up as cults...JW, Mormons, and Seventh Day Adventist who are fringe at best. And what of the main line denominations that approve of WO and the apostacy that often follows. And whom are the great female theologians...Madam Guyon and Amy Semple McPhereson.
I only write these examples to distill the point that drifting from Scripture has its consequences.
VRE wrote: Carmichael, Elliot, Moon and 1000s of other Christian ladies who are sharing the Gospel across every continent are ineffective instruments in God's hands? If this word gets out it could really put a crimp on the missionary movement since a large percentage of them are female.
It's really quiter simple VRE....
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
Now we know that Roman Catholics teach that God cannot Write a book (Bible) and use it throughout history. We know that Roman Catholics teach that idolatry and graven images are the same as God. We know that Roman Catholics teach that God is ineffectual without your RCC Traditions.
But we also know that Sola Scriptura is a fact, reality and the Truth.
VRE wrote: Neither Carmichael nor Elliot taught the Gospel to many savages "over there"? The many men under their teaching could never be saved merely because these two ladies aren't also men? Balderdash! Even the imb would flatly deny this premise that "GOD will not use a woman to preach the Gospel to men" by their own Lottie Moon
Of course VRE I must expect you as a Roman Catholic to disagree with God and Scripture. Thats your religion isn't it.
Regardless of your unBiblical unproven assumptions try to remember that God - not man or church - is sovereign.
As I said before you can put a woman into any pulpit you like - BUT - divine work, preaching and saving is only in the hands of God.
Man including man's religious monoliths eg the Vatican, has nothing to do with this. THE ELECT are chosen by God before the world began. Eph 1:4,5 refers. Your speculation on any womans success simply because man allowed her to be there - is pure unadulterated speculation and conjecture. But as I said thats YOUR religion!!
We all know that your "salvation by works" theology cuts out God and obedience to Scripture, to replace it by DIY.
BTW Have you been told that the Elect don't do idolatry!
...which did prophesy; not explain and interpret Scripture, or preach in public assemblies; for these were not allowed women, neither in the Jewish synagogues, nor in Christian assemblies; but they were endowed with a gift of foretelling future events, as was promised such should have in Gospel times, Joe_2:28.
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
I was not implying that they were called to the pulpit but to service; (see Calvin on 1 Tim. 5) amongst the people of God; wherever their father was in the case of Philips daughters. They were under his headship and functioned in a Middle Eastern culture as woman to women but not independent of male headship nor of the male over-site and protection of their brethren, that related to them as sisters in Christ's family. 1 Cor. 7 give fathers the responsibility of observing their daughters gifts and encouraging either their married or single estate. They should also be actively involved with the brethren in the choosing a husband from among interested brethren. Young children at home with qualified women to teach them until their little immune systems are ready to face the world, Women for home health care in Church and community.
Hmm, even if they pray in public --church assembly-- that is they should have their heads covered. There are no more prophets or prophetesses, so expounding on the Scripture would be completely forbidden now.
RP wrote: If Phillip the evangelist was away Church planting, then possibly; just a thought, that was why his virgin daughters were prophetesses. He either brought them with him or they remained with the Church in his sending location. They were acting as such before the close of canon and functioned under a father's authority. If they functioned in a foreign field wouldn't it have been under his headship and relating to women and children in their place and station? It could be that God did equip them in harmony with their fathers gift. Then it would seen there would be a New Testament model post canon that would be an near equivalent. 1 Cor. 7 seems to indicate singleness having some advantage related to concerns 'the man caring for the things that belong to the Lord, the woman caring for of the things of the Lord. Yet it would seem these singles would be under either parental or church over-site Yes? 1 Cor.11:11-12
Yes. A Christian lady with a calling to the pulpit and an M.Div. could serve under your various Presbytery leaders/Presbyters (men). There'd be nothing unscriptural with that
If Phillip the evangelist was away Church planting, then possibly; just a thought, that was why his virgin daughters were prophetesses. He either brought them with him or they remained with the Church in his sending location. They were acting as such before the close of canon and functioned under a father's authority. If they functioned in a foreign field wouldn't it have been under his headship and relating to women and children in their place and station? It could be that God did equip them in harmony with their fathers gift. Then it would seen there would be a New Testament model post canon that would be an near equivalent. 1 Cor. 7 seems to indicate singleness having some advantage related to concerns 'the man caring for the things that belong to the Lord, the woman caring for of the things of the Lord. Yet it would seem these singles would be under either parental or church over-site Yes? 1 Cor.11:11-12