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RELIGION, CURRENT EVENTS, TECHNOLOGY Subscribe to the breaking newsWhat is RSS?
FRONT PAGE  |  8/22/2014
WEDNESDAY, MAY 20, 2009  |  50 comments
Parents Fuming as Texas Schools Let Gideons Provide Bibles to Students

Some parents in Frisco, Texas, are fuming because their public school district allowed Christian evangelists to provide Bibles to students on school grounds, which administrators say was done to stop even more proselytizing outside the schools.

Frisco Independent Schools allowed Gideons International to display Bibles on tabletops in all 13 of the district's middle and high schools last week. Officials say it didn't violate the law, but some parents say school is not the place to be offering the Good Book.

"I was never notified by the schools that they were going to allow this. I was a little shocked," said Debbie Lutz, a mother with three children who attend schools in Frisco, about 20 miles north of Dallas. ...


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· Page 1 ·  Found: 50 user comment(s)
News Item7/21/09 2:49 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Biblicist, I would have to go back to my original post way, way back when, and see if I left a url such as, Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today. Perhaps I provoked the idea on one of the Calvinist thread, but I think I just took the opportunity to point out the ESV, before many of the KJVonlyers did. One other thread, perhaps it was this one I might have stirred the pot first, but I think I appologized for that. If the irrationality of the KJVonlyism could just be viewed as an idiosyncrasy because it doesn't effect theology, you would really see an attack from me on such a moonstruck idea, if it did. Hmmm that word should go back to Elizabethan times, at least to the Cromwellian era.
50

News Item7/20/09 7:36 PM
Biblicist  Find all comments by Biblicist
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Actually, why I came to this thread was not to carry on about the KJV...
Really!

Well you did a pretty good job of just carrying on about the KJV anyway!

49

News Item7/20/09 2:54 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ah, Biblicist, you know it was the desire of the translators to put the Bible into the vulgar tongue, and this they did. It's interesting though the meaning of the word ,"vulgar", has changed it still applies to parts of the KJV.

However, I do believe these men did the best job the could with the poor resources they had, Erasmus and the Textus Receptus by William W. Combs. I might add from what I remember about it, they didn't have that good of sources for the Old Testament either. So, they did the best job that they could, and knew that others would do a better job in the future. Errors in the King James Version?. I'd suggest you print out the preface of the KJV, e.g., Preface to the King James Version 1611, and think on it.
Actually, why I came to this thread was not to carry on about the KJV, but about the article itself. I believe this is some later information on it?
ACLU targets Gideons in Texas school case

48

News Item7/19/09 5:41 PM
Biblicist  Find all comments by Biblicist
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Alan-H, after our last KJV only arguments on this forum, I have turned into anything but KJV, it did make look into the matter, and even though the translators of the KJV said even a bad version of the Bible is still the Bible, e.g., the KJV itself.
Ha! Jim, so you really think that having translated the Bible they thought that they had done such a bad job that they had to make reference to bad versions as still being Bibles to cover themselves? You're a real funny man!
47

News Item7/19/09 4:47 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Alan-H, after our last KJV only arguments on this forum, I have turned into anything but KJV, it did make look into the matter, and even though the translators of the KJV said even a bad version of the Bible is still the Bible, e.g., the KJV itself. They also would have supported a modern translation, the verse they quoted,

1Corintians 14:11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me. ---NASB

in support of a Bible in the common tongue, such as their translation.

Of course there were other versions of the Bible around, such as the RV, ASV, Darby, and even Webster's which were more understandable, and teenagers had the help of parents and pastors in translating the KJV into English, even if they didn't read it themselves. The KJV was something to have on a coffee table, and not read. When it was said the Bible was the most owned but least read books, that commentary must have been directed towards the KJV.

46

News Item5/29/09 3:03 PM
Alan H | Washington State  Protected NameFind all comments by Alan H
kenny wrote:
Jim/Gil wrote:

"Mainly because high school students won't go to the effort of reading the much more accurate versions of the Bible, the ASV or Darby, because of the Elizabethan taint."

High school students won't read the Bible because most of them are not saved. That's mainly because most of them have been warehoused in a government controlled, godless, humanist indoctrination center for most of their lives. They have been coerced into believing that the Bible is a book of nonsense and fables so they have no use for it. Usually they openly ridicule it. That's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?

BTW, Jim, what Bible did teenagers read (and comprehend) prior to the 1970s? How in the world did anyone ever comprehend Scripture before your NASB, NIV, etc.?

And Jim, I want to know where you acquired your knowledge. Did you do "a high school survey" or what. It seems to me that your only source of information is your bigoted bias against the Authorized Version of the Bible.

You are evidently one of those "NO-KJV Only" fanatics; that is, any version is OK, but not the KJV.

I use the KJV,
Yes! That's the book for me.
I believe we have the Word of God,
It's in the KJV.

(To the song the B.I.B.L.E.)

45

News Item5/29/09 12:00 PM
kenny  Find all comments by kenny
Jim/Gil wrote:

"Mainly because high school students won't go to the effort of reading the much more accurate versions of the Bible, the ASV or Darby, because of the Elizabethan taint."

High school students won't read the Bible because most of them are not saved. That's mainly because most of them have been warehoused in a government controlled, godless, humanist indoctrination center for most of their lives. They have been coerced into believing that the Bible is a book of nonsense and fables so they have no use for it. Usually they openly ridicule it. That's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?

BTW, Jim, what Bible did teenagers read (and comprehend) prior to the 1970s? How in the world did anyone ever comprehend Scripture before your NASB, NIV, etc.?

44

News Item5/29/09 1:22 AM
James | Buffalo  Find all comments by James
It's kind of funny how, every so called bible, other then the real Holy Bible, has been found to have flaws and contradictions in them. You won't know about that unless you study them out for yourself. I've noticed that people who don't believe in the infallibility of the KJV, it's due to the fact that they trust man's word (not GOD's), which are lies straight from hell. The only way to prove what man says is to research it for yourself. I know about 45 kids including my 7 and 9 year old children that can teach you some things out of the Holy Bible. My 51 year old dad thinks it's to hard to understand (he never even tried), but my son can write a message and deliver it. We let him do that sometimes in family devotions, it's the power of GOD. When I first got saved I believed that the niv & nkjv was good, but I only grew so far before it started effecting my growth, when I found out the truth, It was over, I've never stoped growing. It's not up to us to understand on our own, it's GOD, HE teaches us and reveals HIS Word. Also this has nothing to do with the reading level, oh yeah we got you there too. There is no argument in this matter. There isn't and never will be a way for you or anyone else to disprove the infallible KJV, without lying. I'll keep trusting GOD in this matter.
43

News Item5/28/09 11:53 PM
James | Buffalo  Find all comments by James
No teenager will read Elizabethan English, which is significantly different from good American English. I never knew of a teenager in a public hight school to voluntarily study Shakwsphere, (sp) I certainly didn't, but as I said, an American teenager would toss a KJV (and unfortunately give an ASV or Darby version an equally ignoble end) into the nearest trash bin. So, whatever you think of the KJV you wouldn't give it American high school students.


A majority of them will stay lost dew to the lack of GOD in those, so called better versions of GOD's perfect and Holy Word.

42

News Item5/28/09 10:56 PM
Alan H | Washington State  Protected NameFind all comments by Alan H
"In undertaking a defense of the plenary inspiration and absolute integrity of the Sacred Scriptures, as is my present purpose (which defense has been made absolutely necessary by the intolerable wickedness of some parties), it will be a service to the truth to point out, first of all, the universal agreement and wonderful harmony of every sort of heretic in this one point—total opposition to the infallibility of the Bible (John 20:31; Roman 15:4; 2 Timothy 3:15)." [John Owen - A Defense of the Sacred Scripture]
41

News Item5/28/09 2:43 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Mainly because high school students won't go to the effort of reading the much more accurate versions of the Bible, the ASV or Darby, because of the Elizabethan taint.

I would even be happier if they got a Ryrie or MacArthur Study Bible, no matter what the version, but there would be even more complaints about that idea.
You may enjoy Elizabethan English--fine--most Americans including teenagers don't. They will dump KJV (or copies of Shakespeare for that matter) in the nearest trash receptacle, metal or not. So, give them something that will read, which the Gideons have. The KJV Translators Said THAT?!? Yes, basically they did.

In this case it's not what you prefer, though of course I don't, Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today. But use what you wish, I really don't think it's the Battle of the Bible versions. It's the battle of what they will read, and not having cults piggy-back their literature into public schools.

40

News Item5/27/09 6:42 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Trashcanalley wrote:

Protesting again
Hey Jim why are youy always banging on in protest against the KJV
Hey bro, you know full well the days of the trash can are numbered - too noisy. So they brought in these big black, green or blue wheely bins made of plastic, and the lids are nice and quiet. Except in my remote location they've never seen a wheely bin, you just chuck your black plastic sack full of junk by the side of the road every Wednesday.
39

News Item5/27/09 6:22 PM
Trashcanalley  Find all comments by Trashcanalley
Jim Lincoln wrote:
Ho Hum... into the nearest trash bin. So, whatever you think of the KJV you wouldn't give it American high school students.

Protesting again

Hey Jim why are youy always banging on in protest against the KJV

So are you promoting ignorance as an excuse then?

What next American students throw their language study books into the nearest trash can too? I take it Americans do learn foreign languages-I mean American youth invented 'rap' and if the kids can deciphor those lyrics then anything is possible with a little application and of course the grace of God.

How come so many Africans who have English as a second language have no problem with the KJV

I am sure you will have the answer brother

38

News Item5/27/09 5:13 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
kenny wrote:
I believe the reason the AV has suddenly become so unreadable to folks is because that's exactly what Zondervan, Tyndale, Thomas Nelson & others spend millions trying to make you believe. Bible publishing is BIG business.
Correct, Kenny, my TBS man!

It's all those $$$$$'s again, filthy lucre, making merchandise of God's precious word. Those folks don't fool the Lord.

37

News Item5/27/09 5:07 PM
kenny  Find all comments by kenny
What in the world is so difficult about understanding the AV? I have been reading it since I was a kid and I know loads of teenagers and (every other age group) who read it regularly today.

What do you think people read prior to the NIV's marketing driven popularity 20 years ago? The AV was for the most part all anyone had in their homes until the 1970s and no one seemed to be bothered by it. I personally suspect -and I do not mean this as a put down to anyone, simply an observation - that if someone is too dense or dumb to understand the AV they are probably too dense to understand the NASB ot the NIV also.

In most cases, it's probably just as Alan Foster wrote. Scripture is God's Word and is intended for His (regenerate) people. Unregenerate man probably is incapable of understanding the AV because unregenerate man, not being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, is incapable of understanding Scripture at all.

I believe the reason the AV has suddenly become so unreadable to folks is because that's exactly what Zondervan, Tyndale, Thomas Nelson & others spend millions trying to make you believe. Bible publishing is BIG business.

36

News Item5/27/09 4:00 PM
John UK | Wales  Find all comments by John UK
Alan Foster wrote:
The comments made concerning the KJV are not valid as the language is not dated, as is usually claimed by those who but profess Christianity. Please tell me this, when I was an unbeliever I knew that I could not read the language of the KJV, yet the very day that I became a believer I could understand it and marvelled at the fact. Why was this? May I sujest that it is because has the divine, supernatural imprint upon it.
As for J.N.Darby's version, that is something that I would gladly burn as it is an offence against God...
Excellent comments, Alan!

I'm sure there will be many more testimonies as to the spiritual nature of the Authorized Version; spiritual nature in the sense that our Lord Jesus Christ, over the centuries, has so often spoken to men through this particular version, which is an accurate translation of the texts RECEIVED by the Church. I know myself of a former gypsy who was converted in her 70's who at the time she was born again, could neither read nor write. The church she attended was an AV church, and the first book she ever read was THIS book - with NO PROBLEM. Thanks to this Bible, she has learnt to write also, and is a lovely Christian.

35

News Item5/27/09 3:53 PM
Here24  Find all comments by Here24
Jim Lincoln wrote:
So, whatever you think of the KJV you wouldn't give it American high school students.
Your arguement here is untenable Jim.
If you go back to the 19th century the english vernacular used then was basically the same as we use today. The church grew and people were taught and the Holy Spirit used His sword THE KJV greatly. - perhaps we might add greater than today.

The problem with modern versions is not vernacular but content. The NIV for example was put together with contributions of known heretics, (Westcott and Hort) and eclectic Greek texts that are not ratified by many.

34

News Item5/27/09 3:25 PM
Alan Foster | England  Find all comments by Alan Foster
The comments made concerning the KJV are not valid as the language is not dated, as is usually claimed by those who but profess Christianity. Please tell me this, when I was an unbeliever I knew that I could not read the language of the KJV, yet the very day that I became a believer I could understand it and marvelled at the fact. Why was this? May I sujest that it is because has the divine, supernatural imprint upon it.

As for J.N.Darby's version, that is something that I would gladly burn as it is an offence against God as it fights against God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, even down to denying that Christ's blood washes away sin, and that Christ is not the Creator. Darby was a clergy man, and that was all that his faith consisted in, subtly denying Christian doctrine when ever he go the chance.

33

News Item5/27/09 2:52 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Ho Hum The KJV Translators Said THAT?!?

ISA 29:11 And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, "Please read this," he will say, "I cannot, for it is sealed."
ISA 29:12 Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, "Please read this." And he will say, "I cannot read."
ISA 29:13 ¶ Then the Lord said, #"Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned {by rote,}

Scripture taken from the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE,
© Copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1988, 1995

No teenager will read Elizabethan English, which is significantly different from good American English. I never knew of a teenager in a public hight school to voluntarily study Shakwsphere, (sp) I certainly didn't, but as I said, an American teenager would toss a KJV (and unfortunately give an ASV or Darby version an equally ignoble end) into the nearest trash bin. So, whatever you think of the KJV you wouldn't give it American high school students.

32

News Item5/27/09 3:00 AM
seibert  Contact via emailFind all comments by seibert
When a car rental location runs out of cars, the standard industry practice is to pay for a rental from a competitor at no extra cost to you. Dollar didn't follow that rule when you arrived in Austin. I think it should have.
seibert

31
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