Minnow wrote: The problem of 17/18th century African (Black) slavery is that it does not carry the same definition as the term used in Scripture.
Take this as kindly as possible...
Are you saying that the slavery of Israel in Egypt was a lesser slavery? or that the enslavement of some by Israel was not what it was in the days of American slavery? or that the bondage of those captives in Babylon was not really enslavement? I don't quite understand what you're saying.
I think there has been a lot of propaganda making the enslavement of some Africans the worst in history. It's not. And many blacks at present have benefited by the VERY unfortunate suffering of their ancestors. Just LOOK at the state of Africa today! They're killing each other and starving (there are exceptions). South Africa has become a h-e-l-l hole.
Anyway, there's been a LOT of ugliness that shouldn't happen between brothers/sisters and wouldn't if we looked at things from a different perspective; that of COMPLETE Sovereignty.
God never ordained freedom for all men at all times (or it would be so). God brings bondage on people for different reasons usually to punish. God ordained the slavery of blacks by whites for a time and that time passed. For some it was punishment, as THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS! for others for their good.
White people have been enslaved too at times by other white people and nonwhite people that too was ordained by God. Roman's didn't care about your color neither did Egyptians or Russians. All the world and "peoples" have at one time or other been enslaved by others and all under the sovereignty of God (St. Patrick too).
I refer you to my last posting as we're all being too earthly minded here.
Thanks for the very sweet response, I wrote it 1. to bring a little levity to the discussion and 2. to point out that life isnâ€™t easy for most (I too have had far deeper troubles than those mentioned).
Race should not be an issue within the true Church of God. God places each individual in the time, place and situation they are in for a reason. If you belong to God, know it is for your GOOD whatever the circumstances, for ALL things work together for good to those who love God who are the Called according to HIS purpose (?). If you belong not to God, it is for judgment even if you have it â€śgoodâ€ť in this life, you will be judged for unbelief and unthankful ness in addition to your many other sins.
Adversity should make the believer grow in understanding and strength of faith as Joseph and Job, but NEVER are we promised a life free from sorrows in fact I find that there was great sadness on the part of many of the godly in this life (those persons in Bible), but their hope was in the life to come. Remember, Christ was NOT concerned for the socio/political condition of the Israelites, He came not to free them from the tyranny of Rome, but to free them spiritually and in that way, regardless the circumstances, they would have/know peace.
At some time or other we are all victims of discrimination.
When I was 12-16 I was terribly treated by blacks, whites, Mexicans, male and female, why? because I had frizzy, red hair and lots of freckles, I was slightly over weight and I was poor! Now, you try growing up in sunny California in the 1980's looking like THAT!
It took me years to get over it, but a job, hair straigtener, sun screen and areobics really did the trick... now I'm nearly 4-0 and quite attractive, just ask my husband.
Great Sermon! Pastor Schwertley is a man called by God and his organization one of the last vestages of sound teaching. The choice, for me, is between His denomination and the Protestant Reformed Churches. I don't know what I'll do.
I have personally found that not only does the secular world not care for God (of course), but in the Church after Sunday School and Services "believers" don't want to talk about God if you talk doctrine. They're more interested in feelings... or football, lunch and their kids.
Okay, I've tried to determine just where I was unclear... I can't.
Where do I sound Arminian? I'm one of the biggest Calvinists you'll meet (down to the regulative principle).
I think I clearly stated why I think America is being judged with worthless leaders like Obama, Clinton and McCain. We (America) are a wicked nation! Prove me wrong if you can. The churches HAVE fallen away the Arminians prove that.
I agree with Wright in that 911 was a judgment by God, but not for the reasons he stated. God knew what we'd become corrupt. We are corrupt in everyway and most of our "churches" are corrupt (which is what God cares about most) with false teachers, doctrines and practices.
The seeds of our destruction were planted long ago, infact from the beginning (slaves). Perhaps in this Century we will be in the same boat as Kosovo and Israel with African Americans, Hispanics and Muslims etc. working for independent nations and hence, wide-spread terrorism and civil war may lay ahead. This post Christian, sex obsessed, baby aborting, Arminian nation will collapse.
But don't worry "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" if only you'll let him "in!"
For those who hold that 4 point Calvinism is little different than five point... (assuming I'm correct in that they drop the doctrine of the limited atonement) I suggest a careful, focused study of John Owen's The Death of Death.
I, being a newer Calvinist, have been shocked to find that most American churches who call themselves Calvinists or SAY they respect the Westminster Divines and Puritans, would not have him/them to preach or teach in their churches.
They clearly condemned Arminianism in the strongest terms (and cast them from their churches and schools), modern reformed/Calvinist churches accept them as brethern; they followed the regulative principle of worship (NO HUMAN INVENTION IN WORSHIP), modern Calvinists sing hymns (even by Arminians)and/or contemporary music, celebrate X-Mas, Advent and Easter; members will easily drift between Arminian and Calvinist churches noting little difference between the two.
If you are a true Calvinist holding to Calvinist/Biblical doctrine, you find little welcome.