âYe have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.â ~ John 15:16
âAccording as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:â ~ Ephesians 1:4
âThese shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.â ~ Revelation 17:14
(TMC) There are many good reasons not to celebrate Halloween. However, the idea that children simply dressing up gives Satan ownership over them and changes their identity is an un-Scriptural superstition. Our Lordâs âlegal rightsâ are non-negotiable- âThe word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of allâ ~ Acts 10:36
(TMC) @Shane Have you ever read âHow Should We Then Liveâ by Francis Shaeffer? Both the arts and the sciences were revolutionized, not by the age of reason, but by the Reformation. Prior to that, the RCC dogmatically expounded the Greek concepts of the universe and anything else (such as Eliptical Orbits and Heliocentrisity) was considered heresy. Not because of conflict with Scripture, but because it contadicted the pagan philosophy of circles being the sign of perfection that had been adopted wholesale. But when the ancient conflict between universals and particulars was solved with the Gospel centered on the Infinite- Personal God, then people began to apply the implications of Christianity to all areas and questions of life. That is what insipired so many to study creation and to discover scientific laws! Before it had been an exercise in futility, but now it had (and has) God-given meaning! We explore and test and question because it is our Fatherâs creation and He has given us dominion over all the works of His hands! Yes, the world can be bleak. And, yes, evil men plot and plan for their own ends. But, Praise the Lord, He is Sovereign over all! And, He has told us that He holds such men in dirision, and uses them to accomplish His Good Ends!!!
(TMC) @Shane Youâre welcome! Blessings! @Watcher If I may be as candid as you have been, you have yet to really answer ANY of my questions. Apparently, Iâm supposed to believe what you say without asking questions and, in my opinion, in contradiction to Scripture. Iâm not trying to be a know it all. Because God is a God of order and because the universe is created rather than the result of random chance, we should expect there to be scientific laws and methods. The Flat Earth theory makes actual predictions that donât actually come to pass. We should be able to see more than one side of the moon. We should see the sun and moon greatly increase and decrease in their percived size every day. At some point, this becomes a matter of unsubstantiated assertions- not âfactsâ. âWhereâs the beef?â
(John 8:32) @Watcher, Of course when engineers build buildings they don't need to account for earth's curvature! They lay a foundation which they level! However, land surveyors have to account for earth's curvature to get accurate measurements. "There's so much pointing to a flat earth that one is either willingly blind or ignorant." Like what? Everything you've claimed as evidence so far is not. In fact, no one has yet addressed how all the sailors, land surveyors, astronauts, astronomers, and the like have somehow been in some massive cabal to make us all believe the Earth's round! And they kept this up for hundreds or thousands of years? And, btw, it's not our fault observational science works. @Shane, "Grace... and truth is whats needed. Grace comes before conviction." Very true. I hope all of us can remember this when we disagree. You have done a very good job of practicing this. @Dave, right on!
(TMC) @Watcher Umm...No. No one says the North star is chasing us around the universe. At this point in time it APPEARS to be above the North Pole, someday it will no longer. Itâs a very, very simple matter of distance and perspective. Furthermore, this has been nagging me: âdevalues man and leaves him as yet another animal on a rock amongst billions of other rocks just like our ownâ The young man in this article, along with many other godless cultures, have all based their earth-centric cosmology on the glory and âvalueâ of man. The idea that we must be the center of the universe because we are so great. But we do not derive our value from our relative position in the universe. The only reason we have value is because we were created in the Image of God Almighty. The only thing that makes this earth significant is that the Lord of The Universe deigned to come here and take on human flesh. And when He did so, He chose a simple manger in a Judean backwater town, not a Gilded Palace in the Center of the Earth.
(TMC) @Shane Wouldnât that levy not being covered by water contradict Scripture when it says âall the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were coveredâ? Also, in your response to Christopher, you assume that man has only been capable of long distance sea travel for 500 years. There is both Biblical and Archeological evidence to suggest otherwise. Obviously Noah knew how to build a sea worthy boat, as did his sons. King Solomon, in partnership with King Hiram of Phonecia regularly sent his navy out on 3 year long voyages. The Los Lunas NM Decalogue Stone is a facinating artifact written in a blend of Phonecian and very early Hebrew. There are also coins, statuettes, and even modern DNA studies that suggest commerce and intermarriage between The Americas and The Mediterranean Countries. You also made an assumption on the ancient climate of Antarctica. The waters of the deep would have been very hot, thus warming the ocean. There are maps from 1524 and 1531 that acurately portray Antarctica as it would appear without an ice cap, making it likely that it was mapped shortly after the flood and that the 1524 and â31 maps are based off much earlier sources. You can see the maps yourself in section IV of this article: www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread670742/pg1
(TMC) This is interesting: Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Gillâs Commentary: â...accordingly it is observed, that many did flee about this time; (just before the Roman seige of Jerusalem) and it is remarked by several interpreters, and which Josephus takes notice of with surprise, that Cestius Gallus having advanced with his army to Jerusalem, and besieged it, on a sudden, without any cause, raised the siege, and withdrew his army, when the city might have been easily taken; by which means a signal was made; and an opportunity given to the Christians, to make their escape: which they accordingly did, and went over Jordan, as Eusebius says, to a place called Pella; so that when Titus came a few months after, there was not a Christian in the city, but they had fled as they are here bidden to.â
(TMC) @Watcher See Genesis 7:19-20 The height of the mountains doesnât matter. As flat earth theorists point out whenever the Bedford Level experiment comes up- water seeks itâs own level. If, as Godâs Word says, all the mountains under heaven were covered, than an Antarctica rim would have been overflowed as well. Since, again, water seeks itâs own level, the flood would have drained off the edge of the world and into the âetherâ well before the 150 days that Scriptures says the water prevailed on the face of the earth. âLet God be true, but every man a liarâ Common sense says that Surveyors shouldnât have to adjust for the curvature of a flat earth, but they do. Common sense says that people who sail around the world would run out of supplies since the distances should be multiple times longer than all the maps show, but they donât. Common sense says that on a flat earth the sun and moon should appear over 50 times smaller when they rise, but they donât. Common sense says that if the moon is circling over a flat plane then we should see more than just one side of it, but, again, we donât. Common sense might also notice that the lower edge of a âfisheyeâ lense curves things upwards- not downwards. I vote we go with Godâs Word and common sense!
(TMC) @Shane Blessings to you as well! It has been quite interesting! I think it is healthy, on occasion, to investigate those things that we never really question. Itâs sparked a lot of discussion in our family, so thank you! P.s. If you get a chance, you may wish to look over the links that I and others provided earlier, especially since curve math is addressed in them!
@Everyone Something to chew on- If the earth is flat, how did the water cover the highest mountains during Noahâs flood?
(TMC) @Shane So how do you know which flat earth teachers are reputable and which ones are just trolls pulling a prank and rickrolling people? You said earlier that âWe can go to websites from Christian scientists and make claims based on what they say. But many of us have been Led astray in times past by doing the same thing in regards to Bible teaching.â Isnât this just as true for those who post You Tube videos promoting a flat earth? On the one hand we have Christians who have faithfully encouraged the saints and spread the Gospel for decades (Dr. Danny Faulkner, Dr. Jason Lisle, Charlie Duke, Jim Irwin, and many others) vs people with unverifiable backgrounds and lots of claims. (That donât always hold up mathematically either.) Iâve tried this morning to find a decent flat earth map that would provide whatever the âtrueâ distances should be between continents and could not. Do you know of any? At any rate, you can (and people have) sail between Argentina and South Africa. Generations of sailors would have noticed massive problems with their charts, but they did not. Do you believe in light refraction? Also, I still canât see how a lunar eclipse is possible with this model. (And I KNOW they happen, as Iâve seen multiple ones!)
(John 8:32) @Shane, If an objectâs electric charge is removed (can be tested with a multimeter), and then the object dropped, it will still fall. However, electromagnetism would require both objects to contain a charge. With Galileoâs expirement of dropping two objects of dissimilar weight, electromagnetism couldnât explain the outcome. Both objects would have different electric charges, yet would hit the ground at the same time? That wouldnât work with electromagnetism. Furthermore, electromagnetism also can have a repulsion effect. An electromagnet can only be of a negative or positive charge at one given time, it canât apply both in the same plane at once. However, we are surrounded by things of both charges, so either objects with a positive charge or of a negative charge would go floating into space! Hereâs an article from AIG you may find interesting. It contains a good section about relativity. https://answersingenesis.org/physics/do-creationists-believe-in-weird-physics/
(John 8:32) @Shane, Even if we were to assume that gravity was not the force at work, but electromagnetism instead, Earth has a weaker electromagnetic field than the sun, and this is for many reasons. You would still be left with the same problem + a host of others by discounting gravity. Tesla was arguing against Relativity in his older age, while he was writing to a friend who had died several years before, and was writing before Relativity was proven. Based off his actions and health, many have argued he had alzheimers or something similar. Tesla invented several useful things, and I like a lot of Teslaâs work (around here people would call me a Tesla fan) but he was working with Newtonian physics (which, btw, uses gravity as well), and invented some things late in life that donât work such as the âdeath rayâ. Not everything he supported was correct. It should be noted, however, Tesla did believe in gravity. Gravity is not reliant on Relativity. The laws of Gravity were proven and then applied in Newtonian physics. Using the laws of gravity, we can precisely calculate the rate at which an object will fall. Electromagnetism relies on objects containg a charge. A simple experiment will reveal electromagnetism canât be the force at work in place of gravity. If an obj
(TMC) @Shane Thanks for your response. You are correct that there are no flights from Buenos Aires to Cape Town (A distance of 4,278 miles). However, starting next month, there will be regular non-stop flights from Melbourne, Australia to Santiago, Chile (A much greater distance of 7,022 miles)! australianaviation.com.au/2016/12/latam-to-serve-melbourne-santiago-nonstop-from-october-2017/ The flight time from Melbourne to Santiago is about 14 hours. The flight time from Tokyo to New York (6,756 miles) is also about 14 hours. If the earth is flat those two flights should have vastly different flight times given their relation to the North Pole. As to going to experts and teachers- did you not go to pro-flat earth teachers and experts to learn that view? Doesnât linking to a lengthy mathamatical explanation make more sense than trying to write it out? Math is math, no matter if I write it out, you write it out, or a third party writes it out. Have you checked out the links provided and investigated for yourself? Math says that if the sun and moon were circling over a flat surface they would appear 50 - 100 times larger when overhead vs at the horizon. We can all see that is not the case.
...If we view nearby stars on one side of Earthâs orbit, and then the other side of Earthâs orbit 6 months later, those stars will appear to change position. A geocentric model canât account for this, as earth must change position for the effect to be observable. There are several other huge problems with a geocentric model, but I donât have room to expound on them here.