john anticalvin wrote:
Lurker...That's something I really dislike about Calvinism. When the God says He loves the whole world and whosoever will may come, Calvinist will change His words to mean He didn't love the "world", only some, and "whosever"only means a few. When God says faith is not a work, the Calvinist says it is but because it's God who forces the faith, it's not a work that people do. Calvinist don't seem to understand that faith is not a work at all whether it's an action of man or God.

Calvinism is false wrote:
v 24 reminds us of the context viz. that Paul is still writing about the Jewish controversy about the justice of God in saving believing Gentiles while rejecting unbelieving Jews.
Paul is not, and cannot, be attempting to persuade his readers that God pre-selects some to be “vessels of wrath” and others to be “vessels of mercy,” as that would contradict everything He has said about God’s justice. Rather, Paul is emphasizing that God has been extremely patient with those who were “vessels of wrath prepared for destruction” (9:22). These “vessels” were not “prepared sovereignly by God,” but simply “prepared,” or “ready” for destruction because of their own sinfulness. Paul is not saying that only a certain percentage of people are “vessels of wrath.” All people are such vessels prior to their repentance and regeneration, as Paul has made abundantly clear in earlier chapters of Romans.ePaul explains that the reason God was so patient with vessels that were so worthy of His judgment

Calvinism is false wrote:
Faith does not "merit" righteousness! Faith being accounted righteousness is not the same as meriting anything. You are adding to the scriptures.
We are back to Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace (not merit!)....."

Calvinism is false wrote:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law
If faith were a deed of the law then this would not be true.

Calvinism is false wrote:
Not to mention that it flies in the face of scripture!
Ezekiel 33:11
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

Calvinism is false wrote:
I am not sure that I understand. Can you clarify.
Romans 10.4 states "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth..."
BUT this is actually making our case that faith cannot then be related to law!!

So if one acknowledges salvation is all of grace, but one has to believe to be saved?

Calvinism is false wrote:
Care to produce a scripture to show that it is the law's fulfillment?
How do you read Romans 4:16? viz. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace....."
Here faith and grace go hand in hand. If faith was of the law, then grace would NOT sit well with it because then it would be deserved!

john anticalvin wrote:
Tidbit...I understand there are none righteous under the law. Ems 3:20 says "...by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight;". However, verse 28 makes it clear "that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." So people can do what is considered good, just not according to the works of the Law. Faith, not being a work, can be performed unto salvation only because then God graciously saves us at faith.

Calvinism is false wrote:
The calvinists make much of this, but they are unable to settle the matter by producing a passage of scripture that clearly teaches this. The
only reference they produce is Ephesians 2, but this is hardly a clear cut case. If the bible thought this to be a big issue one would think that there would be more than a single reference!

Calvinism is false wrote:
The Romans verse you quoted was RomansThe verse reads "Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" So I have no idea where your interpretation comes from. And, in any case whoever said that we are born by man's will? You misrepresent again!
All I insist on is what the scriptures say viz. "~~~Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace~~~; to the end thepromise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" Romans 4.16
There is nothing here to intimate that somehow faith is a work or meritorious. Quite the contrary the beggars arms receiving the bounty magnifies the grace of the giver!
This calvinist witch hunt against those who themselves believe as though they had committed a crime is wholly unwarranted from the bible. If you have any verse or passage which demonstrates that faith is ever a work bring it forward.

john anticalvin wrote:
Lurker...then I really don't get why if someone says they were saved by faith that a Calvinist will be quick to accuse the person of believing in salvation by works of the flesh.

Calvinism is false wrote:
Well sir, he is present by His Spirit and through his word to convince and convict, to open eyes and hearts. But some will harden their hearts and others will believe and be converted.

If you wish to discuss the scriptures don't proof text. Explain your understanding and I will counter. Don't press analogies too far lest you go beyond the scriptures.

Not at all. The doctrine of the bondage of the will was dreamt up at the reformation. It is supported philosophically not scripturally.
Out of space.

Calvinism is false wrote:
Show me a Christian who says that one does not need to be born again, or that it is done by the will of God. Prove to me that faith is a gift of God.
Romans 9.19 I doubt you understand this.
Sure we have a free will as to whether we come to Christ or not. Were you made a robot before you came to Christ?
Who, other than you says that man has to achieve something that God cannot?
You appear very confused as to what the opposing party actually believes. So instead of misrepresentation why don't you take the time to read and consider?

Calvinism is false wrote:
You don't have a monopoly on grace. You do have a weird construction of it which you claim is superior to the plain teaching of the bible.

Same old pelagian/cassian/arminian, works-based religion.

And Romans 9:19 is in the bible why (?) if we can just have free will in our faith decision?

Jim Lincoln wrote:
Yes, conservative Christians should note that Ron Paul supports the legalization of marijuana and his past record indicates that he is a supporter of, [URL=http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/crj0002b.txt]]]Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists[/URL]. [URL=http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2012/01/04/rise_of_paul_power_only_helps_obama/page/full/]]]Rise of "Paul Power" Only Helps Obama[/URL] is certainly true.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
At least one who has noted that, [URL=http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelmedved/2012/01/04/rise_of_paul_power_only_helps_obama/page/full/]]]Rise of "Paul Power" Only Helps Obama[/URL].
All I can say is that, the Republican menagerie, makes me glad that I am an Independent.

Kevin Boling wrote:
Re: Dr. Ron Paul - his cure is worse than the disease