Are you telling me that one of your own kind is wrong?

In fact listen to what James Montgomery Boice wrote in his book of Philippians on page 96.

"If you will see persecution in this light, then you will see it for what it really is, a gift from God."

WHAT DID HE SAY "A GIFT FROM GOD"!

Let's continue from the book:

"Paul refers to persecution as a GIFT twice in the last verses of the first chapter of Philippians"

..."Given by God as a token of his grace! How wonderful that persecution can be received in that way by Christians."

WOW a reformie declaring that the gift in Phil. 1`:29 is of the suffering and persecution on behalf of Yahshua Messiah.

Faith according to Webster:

"to persuade, to draw towards any thing, to conciliate; to believe, to obey."
"In theology, the assent of the mind or understanding to the truth of what God has revealed. Simple belief of the scriptures, of the being and perfections of God, and of the existence, character and doctrines of Christ, founded on the testimony of the sacred writers"
"Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony"

Do you have faith that your car will start in the morning?

Do you have faith that you will wake up?

Do you have faith that when you turn on the shower, water comes out?

In my 3 examples, this type of faith includes everyone, saved or unsaved.

Therefore is this faith from Yahweh?

Based on the clavies/reformies faith is a gift to Yahweh's elect.

But how can we describe faith in these examples?

Where is it wrote that Yahweh gave me the gift of faith, that when I turned the shower on, water came out.

You guys have missed the boat, heck the dock when it comes to faith.

Can you read? Really can you read?

What did I say? "What I don't make mention of, is the fact that I am being told that the IG Farbin company is now owned by Haliburton. I don't have solid proof on this, so I leave that info out of the statement."

Now what lie am I accused of?

That Karl worked at the chemical factory or Hitlers Pope Pius the 12th?

I guess Charles Chinuqy [spelling may be off] was a liar when he expose the deception of the RCC.

In fact I believe that Charles was privy at the meeting when the RCC was attempting to have Mr. President Lincoln murdered.

GG check out your history. If you would like more info, contact me via e-mail.

But I realize that you don't want to know the truth behind the RCC.

Why is it that the Mafia are RCC members?

Go and eat your wafer.

This is why I have gotten out of the church system.

However, I don't watch those prosperity fools on TV.

My question to you is, which Church in Sussex County can I attend, that teaches the truth?

Also where in the writings of Paul, James, and Peter requires us to tithe/

My question to you is How did Yahweh know that Jacob was good and Esau was evil?

This seems to be the big question the calvies/reformies can't answer.

If Yahweh knew that Esau was evil, why would Yahweh allow evil into this world, IF those of the evil nature can't be saved?

If I was going to bake a cake, why would I put good materials and evil materials in the same mix?

If the evil ones of this world have no hope of salvation, why even bother to allow them to exist?

It can't be to decieve the "ELECTION" of Yahweh, because the "ELECTION" are preserved.

This type of doctrine is false!

Terry, don't you know? Can't you research out what I write?

I learn of this truth app. 15 years ago.

Why don't you check me out and let me know if I'm wrong.

Just as Lance did in the post prior to mine.

"The comment made by kevin
whose comments I question
and his last being the same"

Well if you question any of my comments, send me an e-mail. I'll gladly respond to you or any other person on this forum. This is why I give my e-mail out, so the comments can be answered.

You don't have to ask anyone else, just ask me.

Lance, in Pope John's book, it makes reference of him working at the chemical plant. However, just as a common laborer. I had many conversations with various Catholics in my area, of course they were upset, but in the same token, they couldn't disprove the "history".

What I don't make mention of, is the fact that I am being told that the IG Farbin company is now owned by Haliburton.

I don't have solid proof on this, so I leave that info out of the statement.

By the way, let's not forget about Hitlers Pope !

In the early 1940's, the I.G. Farbin Chemical Company employed a Polish salesman who sold cyanide to the Nazis for use in Auschwitz. The same salesman also worked as a chemist in the manufacture of the poison gas. This same cyanide gas along with Zyklon B and malathion was used to exterminate millions of Jews and other groups. Their bodies were then burned to ashes in the ovens. After the war the salesman, fearing for his life, joined the CC and was ordained a priest in 1946. The salesman was ordained Poland's youngest bishop in 1958. After a 30 day reign his predecessor was assassinated and our ex-cyanide gas salesman assumed the papacy.

His name? Karl Wojtyla. Other words know us Pope John Paul II.

Therefore “not only” has reference to the Gospel of the Messiah, of verse 27.

Incredulous:

Listen to what Vincent is saying: “This is because we know that it is God who sovereignly grants us grace to believe the gospel,”

Did you pick that up? Yahweh grants us the “grace”! But that doesn’t mean that everyone will consume that grace. Grace is something that we as sinners, must take hold of and go with. Once we have accepted His grace, by the way, what is that grace to us? That Gospel of Yahshua Messiah. There's where our faith lies in. Yahweh doesn’t give us “faith” as a gift. Faith comes upon those that put their trust in Yahshua Messiah as their Savior. That's were the gift lies.

Once we have accepted that grace, then our faith kicks in. That is to say our relieance and obedience to that grace of the Gospel of Yahshua Messiah.

Then on that day of judgment, those of us, that have not swayed from the truth, shall be justified at that Great White Throne Judgment Seat.

But in the calvies/reformies world, they can’t understand this.

I thought you were smarter then this?

You have missed the boat on this one.

What "is given"?

1) The Gospel of the Messiah verse 27

or

2) are the same type of suffering for the sake of Yahshua Messiah.

Point 2 is the one I favor the most.

In fact listen to what James Montgomery Boice wrote in his book of Philippians on page 96.

By the way isn't he a reformie?

"If you will see persecution in this light, then you will see it for what it really is, a gift from God."

WHAT DID HE SAY "A GIFT FROM GOD"!

Let's continue from the book:

"Paul refers to persecution as a GIFT twice in the last verses of the first chapter of Philippians"

..."Given by God as a token of his grace! How wonderful that persecution can be received in that way by Christians."

WOW a reformie declaring that the gift in Phil. 1`:29 is of the suffering and persecution on behalf of Yahshua Messiah.

Sounds like to me that the average calvie/reformie lacks the true faith. This is why they are so scared to share into the suffering of the Gospel of Yahshua Messiah!!!!

You need to get your eyes checked.

I believe you are going blind.

Come on RK, give it a break. No way is Paul referring as FAITH, as a gift!

The grace is the gift.

Our salvation is made possible by our faith into that grace.

Through = “dia” preposition. With the Genitive, means “proceeding from and passing out.”

“For [reasoning] by grace [grace has the article, “THE grace or THE unmerited favor {why the article? Because “THE grace” is from Yahweh}] are ye saved [who is the one that does the saving? Yahshua Messiah] through [dia] faith [pistis from the verb peitho].

Faith is our reliance or obedience into that salvation which was given to us by the grace of Yahweh.

So we see that our faith, as it passes out or proceeds from our soul, grafts unto that salvation, Yahshua Messaih, which Yahweh sent forth into this world to be an atonement for you and I!

Then I made reference to the 4 Gospels.

"You cast doubt doubt on the manuscripts and translations then insist that that is where our faith comes in- really?!" [must we double talk]

What I cast doubt on is man's doctrines!
In each one of the letters, the writers wrote to the "ek-kelsia" AFTER those of the "ek-kelsia" heard the Gospel of Yahshua Messiah.

Their faith was all ready inscribed within their hearts from the spoken words of the Apostles. In every instance, the writers were correcting sometype of deception that crept in unaware.

On the day of Pentecost, where the app. 3000 souls saved because they read a manuscript? NO! By hearing the words spoken by the Apostles.

James letter was wrote to those that fell by the wayside of the Gosple of Yahshua Messiah. But what we gather from his letter, they were considered "brethen".

My faith relies in the Gospel of Yahshua Messiah. Not some manuscript.

Yes I read manuscripts, but do I put faith in them? No! My faith lies in the redemption at the Cross.

Every one of the so-called books of the New Testament are letters. Letters in which, for most of the part, were wrote for instruction or correction.

Pauls letters were first wrote then the so-called Gospel Of Mark, followed by Matthew, whom by the way copied from Mark and the Q Gospel. Luke followed next, where he copied from Mark, Matthew and the Q Gospel.

"therefore we cannot be certain that we even have the Word of God- whether in the originals or in the translation"

This is where our faith comes in.

Why is it that there are so many different Bible translation? Compare the KJV to the NIV. In fact check out the Lord's Prayer in the Gospel of Luke Chapter 11.

Now if the NIV and the KJV were from the same manuscript, why don't they read the same. In fact, I believe I'm right, there are over 10,000 difference just between those 2 translations!

Lets focus on the KJV. How can we take 1 translation, but have so many commentaries on this, Schofiled, Darby, Bob Jones, Fallwell, etc.

What is the answer? OUR FAITH IN YAHSHUA MESSIAH, AS STATED IN PAUL'S LETTER TO THE ROMANS CHAPTER 3:21-26.

Yahweh Bless

Bible Verse, Yes Murray is correct to say that "do we find dia pistin or dia ten pistin: on the ground/basis of faith." If I consider that fact that he is referring side by side.

However keep in mind that the manuscripts that we have are wrote in what I call a letter format. It was man's ways that added the chapter and verses. And alot of times man interpreted these letters to suit their own doctrines.

Even though the exact Greeks words are not side by side as Murray is looking for, I beleive Paul's writing to the Romans is what Murray says doesn't exist.

If you look carefully at Romans 3, beginning with verse 21 to verse 26 we see that this is all one sentence structure.

Therefore we have within that text, what is there that Murray says doesn't exist.

We can find of several instances where the argument can be made on the “dia” being in the accusative which deals with faith and justification.

In the Letter to Romans Paul writes, in 3:23-25 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of Yahweh; Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Yahshua Messiah: Whom Yahweh hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh;”

In the phrase “for the remission” is the Greek preposition “dia” which is in the accusative.

“Dia he paresis hamartema” [because of the passing or on account of the passing or by the reason of the passing]

In closing Paul continues in verse 26, “To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Yahshua.”

Can we say that our faith is grounded in that blood that redeemed us? Are we not justified by our faith which channeled out from the fact the He became that propitiation for us?

We also can make an argument in Romans 9:32.
I'm sorry that I couldn't go into a full detail. I hope you can see the connection.

11/10/07 @ 7:37 AM and 10:57 AM
12/19/07 @ 3:37 PM
12/26/07 @ 2:33 PM

Advice says: "May the Truth set you free."

The truth has, stay away from the doctrines of the calvie/reformies!

Yahweh Bless

"Justification is never on the ground of faith, [DO WHAT]
which would be expressed in Greek by dia with "faith" in the accusative case (dia ten pistin). But one never finds this in the NT."

Because of their lack of faith!

Joh 11:23 Yahshua saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
She saith unto Him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Messiah, the Son of Yahweh, which should come into the world.
Joh 11:32 Then when Mary was come where Yahshua was, and saw Him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto Him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.
Joh 11:33 When Yahshua therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
Joh 11:34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
Joh 11:35 Yahshua wept.

There is a deeper message within this!