All right, looks like we're rolling. Had an issue with it connecting, but it looks like it's connected. Hopefully, it'll stay connected. Welcome to the streaming audience. This is a recording session for the Faith Debate radio show, so I'll be busy doing that. Won't be able to interact here, but if you leave a comment or anything on this stream, I will get to it later. Anyway, I'm going to turn my back on you, not meaning to be rude, but we're going to get going here. All right, thanks for joining the stream. Make sure I got these on the right, correct side so that everyone doesn't yell at me. Good morning. Welcome to the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. I'm Troy Skinner, your longtime host of the Faith Debate. You can find me online at WFMD.com and at HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com, because HouseholdOfFaithInChrist is the church that I pastor. Join this week as has become pattern by the Rassvees, Imran, known to his friend as Raz, Rassvee, and his son Daniel Rassvee. They co-pastor a church in the Thermon area. It's called the Church that Meets at Imran's. They also have a ministry that is called Conquered by Love Ministries, online at conqueredbylove.org. And we are joined this week by the publisher of a book that is called The Last Day's Pride Parade. Author is said to be a Tom Maccabeus. I'm not sure if I know Tom Maccabeus personally or not, but we have the publisher here to talk about this book. So it's interesting because this show, we're recording it in advance and it's going to air long past the month of June. We're actually recording it during what I like to call goeth before fall month. So we're in the middle of Goethe-Bahura fall month, and we've got this book about the last day's pride parade and the return of the Lord. And I'm going to just throw an open-ended question to our publisher here. And it's interesting. I want to talk about that in a minute, maybe. But Greg Windsor is the publisher. And the open-ended question is, why would you want to publish such a book? Well, I think it's really critical because if there is something related to scripture, prophecy, that many Christians are not aware of, it's very important to get that word out. Now, what people do with it, that's a secondary question, but there's things in here that I believe are not are rarely talked about. Actually there's some things that I don't believe have really been focused on for like centuries and I think it's important to get the message out because it relates to eschatology and also relates to what's going on in in our time, which I believe is unprecedented. There's something going on now that is pretty much unprecedented. And all these people in this room, we all agree that the LGBT agenda is evil and anti-Christ and all of that. That's not really exactly a groundbreaking Christian doctrine. Right. I think what's different about this book, maybe more of how it ties into some historical events as well, we've seen before, right? Right. See, yes, most Christians, if they haven't realized by now You know, they must be in a woke stupor if they haven't realized what's going on now. But, so, it's one thing to say, okay, the Bible speaks generally, as in the days of Lot, so will the coming of the Son of Man, and this is definitely anti-biblical, anti-Christ. But there are unique things which I do believe relate to more specific eschatology beyond just the general environment of Antichrist or persecution, which has been throughout history. But there's something very unique with this whole movement, this whole rainbow movement. Now, it's a new-ish book, but it's not a brand new book. If you look at the copyright, it came out in Goethe Before a Fall month last year. Last year, yes. So was that timing just a coincidence, or were you aiming to have it come out during June? No, I timed that so that, you know, to get the attention that I think people need to be aware of, you know, this message that, hey, there are things in Scripture that we need to look at, and there's things in history that we need to know about in order to know the times that we're living in, sort of like the sons of Issachar, to be able to discern the times that we're living in. in the book is about repeated references and allusions drawn from the book, the period surrounding the book of Maccabees. Right. And so you're making a historical connection. You're talking about the book of Daniel, the time of the Maccabean revolt, the time of Christ, and now the time that we're in. And so that's kind of, I guess what you're, to Daniel's point before, that's what you're Laying claim to is this is your contribution to the the conversation That's the thing you like that may be Christians people in the church are missing. They're not making those historical connections. Is that accurate? Okay, just about everybody who studies prophecy Matthew 24 Daniel regardless of whatever persuasion you have If you study any commentary, Daniel chapter 8, Daniel chapter 11, there's one person in the Old Testament who typifies this Antichrist figure, and that was the Emperor Antiochus IV, Antiochus Epiphanes. He proclaims himself God. Now, most people are aware of study of prophecy. He goes into the temple, he desecrates the temple, he kills the Jews, he persecutes the Jews, he says, I am God. But what many Christians do not realize, there's lots of historical evidence that he also had a sexualized agenda. He was forcing it upon God's people. You know, there was nudity. He built, they built a quote, statum, sort of the YMCA, if you know what I'm talking about. There's nudity, there's homosexuality, right on the temple grounds. It was in your face. And the biggest thing about it is that the Jews were grieved because the young people, they were influencing the young people. In the book of Maccabees, he talks about, you know, the young people were drawn into this. And all this happened at the time of the abomination of desolation. So you have two events, this major cataclysmic event that we all agree upon. You know, most Bible commentators agree this was cataclysmic regardless of whatever persuasion you have. Then you have at the same time a forced sexual agenda upon the Jews. With parades and everything, right? Oh yeah, now that's not the worst. But the worst part was the Jews were forced to march in parades. Imagine that. A parade where men are dressing like women. A parade where there's lewd acts going on. Think about that. A parade where they had to celebrate. That's the word. You must celebrate this god of sexual lawlessness. He's the god of transgression, lawlessness. So there's this shocking historical information that prior to our time really wouldn't have mattered, you know, if you're studying, if you're a Puritan studying, you know, the 1611 Bible and you read about this, it's like, yeah, you know, but it's going on on a scale throughout the whole entire world, so it's shocking, you know, the information. That's the voice of Greg Windsor, publisher of the book, The Last Days, Pride Parade and the Return of The Lord, which came out last year. I hadn't heard about it until this year, and I have read it. And if you're not a reader and you're interested, you know, it's not an imposing thing to have to read. It's more of a booklet than a book. I mean, you can sit down and read it in one sitting, which is what I did. So it's very doable to do that. Very informative. I just want to make a comment for those of you listeners who may not be familiar. Several people have mentioned the Book of Maccabees on this show today. that is not part of the Bible. It is actually published and bound into some Bibles as like an extra book in there. It's part of the Apocrypha, and it's not historically being considered canon by Christians, but that does not mean that it has no historical use and many historians would agree that it's very accurate in the historical depictions of what happens, and there certainly are many biblical truths that you can garner from it, but it is not the word of God such that the book of Daniel is, so just so you're aware of the listeners. And this, oh, we have more to say? No, we have reason to believe that it's an accurate historical record, it's just not scripture, that's all. And it was highly valued by the Jews, it was actually part of the Septuagint. you know, from Alexandria, you know, when they... So the Jews actually held... Similar to it being part of the Roman Catholic Bible today, though, right? It wasn't considered Scripture, but it was an important religious book. Right, so just because it wasn't the Septuagint doesn't mean it was canon. Right. It wasn't one of the books stored up in the temple, for example, right? So it wasn't, you know, when we talk about the Bible of the early church, you know, Jesus' Bible was the Greek Septuagint, but they understood which books were considered God's Word and which books were other important religious... Valuable but not authoritative. Right, so just to clarify. Now I know anybody who hears us talk about this who happens to be Roman Catholic is a little bit peeved at us, but we don't kind of get into all of the inner workings of all that, but historically I would say it's pretty persuasively the truth is on what we're saying here right now on this show. We could have a separate faith debate talking about that if we And it was in the original 1611 KJV. So just for the record, that might sway some people. Although, yeah, it's in some, well, it depends on which version of the KJV. It's in some and not in some others, right? So we're not going to get into the whole KJV only in his polyism conversations here either right now. So this is the faith debate. And in the spirit of that, there were three things that struck me about this that I'll throw out there. We can tackle them one at a time, but I'll put them out there now so you kind of know what's coming. That was one of my things I noted, that a lot of the argumentation in this book, The Last Day's Pride Parade, it's drawing as its authoritative source, if you will, from Maccabees, as opposed to necessarily drawing from what actually is the Word of God. I took note of that, and I'm not sure that I loved that as a reader of it. The other thing is it seems clear to me that the perspective that's put forward on this eschatological framework is a dispensational, premillennial dispensational point of view. So those who aren't dispensational in their point of view, they might have some qualms with the argumentation and the way that the flow of the logic of the argument is laid out in the book. Let's start with those two. Is that fair? It's pretty much a dispensational point of view that's represented here? Okay. I intentionally avoided getting into models of eschatology, which is a huge subject. Actually, the information in the book, you could fit it into different eschatologies, but it was really about just getting the information out. So I intentionally avoided, but it is a futurist. Yes, it's a futurist, a great tribulation, a future final antichrist. I didn't mean to say that you were making a dispensational argument and drawing attention to that, but And so I didn't even notice it right away. But I was about 20, 30% into the book and I was like, okay, I think he's coming at this from a dispensation framework. And then as I continued to read, I realized, okay, so there's some inferences, some implications. So I just wanted to, you know, so that was an accurate read at least. What about the dependence on arguing from Maccabees and that historical point of view? Actually, it's not really dependent on that because When Jesus quoted, when you see the abomination of desolation, his readers, everybody understood that, that that event happened. from the Book of Daniel as recorded in the Book of Maccabees. So there really was no... This is not really a historical fact that's been in dispute. Yeah, there was no dispute. Jesus attended the rededication of the temple, the festival of rededication, which kind of morphed into Hanukkah. It kind of got morphed into that. But there was the rededication of the temple. So none of this was really in dispute. The only reason why I highlight the Book of Maccabees is because this historic information has to be put out there as like the data. Now, you know, the early church, the first Bible commentary ever written outside of the Apostles was Hippolytus. This is like in very, very early on. And he mentions this, he mentions Antiochus Epiphanes, he mentions, actually he mentions the Pride Parade of 168. I mean, he doesn't put it like that, of course. But he connects it with Revelation 13, the mark of the beast, because they had to wear a symbol. It was about symbolism. They had to wear a symbol upon their head. So the early church, there's good evidence that they recognized that this event wasn't really in dispute, and they connected it to the Antichrist, and they used that term, the Antichrist. I know some people take issue with that, but the early church, throughout the literature, uses the singular, the Antichrist, as opposed to many Antichrists. Also, other church historians, I think it's like Jerome mentions this again, of Antiochus Epiphanes. So everybody understood that he was a model or was an archetype of that. I understand your point. The only reason why the author felt the necessity is because so many people are unaware of it. And it has so many connections to the abomination of desolation, because really, how do we get our definition of that term? What does that term mean? In other words, the disciples knew exactly what that meant. It's like, if I say 9-11, we don't have to explain what that meant. And it's the same kind of thing. So, yeah, the author felt the necessity to give that historic information, but it doesn't really rely upon, it doesn't hinge on the book of Maccabees. Because actually, there's a subsequent book coming out, The Rainbow Antichrist, which ties in many other parts of the New Testament where it connects. That's the voice of Greg Windsor. I'm Troy Skinner. You've also heard so far from Daniel Raz. We haven't heard from Imran, so let's see if we can pull Imran into the conversation here. well for me this uh... book was really more of a historical value i didn't realize that the pride parades and things that are going on today happened back then and like a lot of things in scripture we have a a little fulfillment and then a big fulfillment that's what i feel like it's happened back then it was a little fulfillment of the pride parades and what's happening around that area and now the pride parades are all over the world in europe and america and uh... you know It's funny that Russia's fighting against these riot parades, where Russia's deemed the villain in today's media. But again, I think this is more of a – it was eye-opening for me that it was a small fulfillment of prophecy to a large fulfillment of prophecy now that we're living, I think, in the end times. It looks like Daniel's reaching for the microphone. And yeah, to the futurism type of thing, I mean, as you know, we've talked about this before, I'm more of a futurist, not dispensational necessarily, but I believe in a future tribulation period that's coming or upon us. And I don't think – because I've heard I've been in conversations with the publisher before on this topic. I think there is a lot of value to be gained from somebody who has not a futurist view, but more of a preterist view. If nothing else, then to not let history repeat itself, because you can see things happen in history and you can see it happening again today. only the more so. And, you know, when we open our eyes and say, this is a pattern that the devil has been using in the past, and is continuing to use, and he's even more successful at it now than he was two or three thousand years ago, I think there's definitely a value to be gained, regardless of your eschatological view. In fact, I've heard him answer questions from preterists saying, well, why does this apply to me? Because I don't think the tribulation is coming next year, in 50 years, or whatever. Yeah, we're throwing a lot of terms out there and I'm not going to take time to define them all other than to frame this conversation. We talked about the futurist view, which is basically the lion's share of things that are talked about in the Bible are still to come in a future right before the second coming of Christ and how that plays out with the timing of a tribulation or a great apostasy or if there's a rapture, things like that. There's some disagreement on all those sorts of things and those all fall within the historic the dispensational premillennial. Daniel seems to, from shows and conversations we've had in the past, seems to be more in the historic premill camp with some dispensational flavors mixed in. And I'm kind of guessing that Imran maybe is in that same milieu, although I haven't had the same depth of conversations with him, but you guys are at the same church and leading the same thing. And I would be more in the amillennial, probably with more of an idealist. If people know these terms, you kind of know the players now a little bit. More of an idealist view. And as far as preterism, preterism has to do with whether or not everything has already happened or not. I would fall into the partial preterist camp. Meaning that a lot of it has, and I would argue, again this isn't the point of this show, but we're talking about eschatology in the context of this book that we're talking about. Everything that has to have happened for Christ to return has, but obviously it hasn't in all the ways that it will because he hasn't returned yet. But before I finished my next breath, he could return because everything that needed to happen for him to happen. So that would be where I am. And that's not where this book is. And so that's where some of these questions and these thought threads are coming from. And I've noticed, and that was one of the details, if you will, I've noticed that those are more dispensational, more futurist in their orientation, have more of a willingness, it seems to me, and it could be just my personal experiences in reading and conversations, more of a willingness to turn to things like the Didache, the book of Enoch, the books of Maccabees, even, and I'm not suggesting this in this room, but even Gnostic sources, the lost gospels, those sorts of things. They tend to draw from some of the, or even the early church fathers for that matter, and draw their arguments from those sorts of sources and make those more the centerpiece of the argument as opposed to citing chapter and verse and making a distinctly biblical argument. I've noticed that and so that might sound like an accusation. If you take it as one, defend yourself. If not, just interact with it. Okay. The author, since you raised this point, in retrospect, yes, the author probably should have amplified 2 Thessalonians, because the passage on 2 Thessalonians, because if you read that, actually the book of Daniel is only quoted, I think, four times in the whole New Testament. Three in Luke 21, Matthew 24, Mark 13. And one at a time, 2 Thessalonians. And loads of allusions in the book of Revelation. Of course, yeah. Revelation doesn't actually quote any part of the Old Testament, but alludes to it throughout. Right, lots of allusions, right. So 2 Thessalonians, this is where which directly connects to the things in the last day's pride parade. So it says, that day will not come, speaking of the return of the Lord, until the rebellion comes first or the falling away and the man of law is revealed who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called God so that he takes his seat in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God. Okay, so there's a quote from Daniel chapter 11, okay? Daniel chapter 11 is supposedly, it's one of the most detailed prophecies in the whole entire Bible. I think it's like 20 prophecies that Antiochus fulfilled. And once again, partially, he fulfilled all these different things except right up to this final, to a few final points. So that's like uncanny that he fulfilled all these things and then there's this last final fulfillment of the final Antichrist. So to me, that's strong evidence that we do need to go to Daniel and get this silica triangulation theologically from the book of Maccabees and of course from other sources. Also, another evidence is in the New Testament, like 2 Peter, the book of Jude, when it talks about false teachers in the last days, it mentions about, surprise, surprise, about sensuality, sexuality. There's three passages in the New Testament that speak of the, I think it's 2 Peter or Jude, and you'll notice that they talk about false teachers bring in a sensuality, which is exactly what we see going on. Wholesale churches, wholesale rejection of God's plan. There's a bunch of other New Testament times, but I'll just give a moment if you guys want digest that or ask questions. Yeah, I mean, I think as long as you have the distinction in your head, look, this is scripture, and this is not scripture, and none of us would dispute that you can use the Oxford English Dictionary to make a point, or the Britannica to make a point, or Google to make a point. There are more and less authoritative sources, and on the highest end of that scale would be the inerrant Word of God. Right. And as long as everyone's super clear that, well, this other book, Maccabees or Enoch, like you say, or the writings of E.B. White or Ellen White, these are not scripture. I don't think there's – I don't have a problem with somebody making a doctrinal point based on the writings of Calvin or somebody else. I wouldn't even put Ellen White's writings in the same category as Maccabees or Enoch for that matter. The point I'm making is there's all these other – and I think it's sure sighted to say that these other sources have no value at all, but yes, your arguments should be grounded in scripture from the beginning, and I think that's a fair critique, but I think I don't think we've established that there's a disagreement from the author of this book on that subject. Now, we're basically out of time for this episode. In next week's episode, I think we're going to kick off with some of the historical context and the historical line. connecting the dots in history that take us through Old Testament times, the Book of Acabes, the first century, today. We'll talk about that next time, but we have a minute or two and we haven't had a chance to promote. If somebody is interested in interacting with what has been written here in the Last Days Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord. It's a mouthful of a title, by the way. I have a tendency to just call it the Last Days Pride Parade for short, but the and the Return of the Lord is actually in the title. Anyway, if somebody wants to get a copy, what do they do? You can go to Barnes and Nobles. They're one of the publishers who did not shut it down. Thank you, Barnes and Nobles. They didn't shut it down. You can go to Barnes and Nobles. If you want to interact in the debates about these, or as far as a forum, you can go to Worthy News and look up the subject Rainbow Antichrist. There's a forum going on. And I have, if you have about 10 seconds, I got one other thing. Those of you listeners, this is Daniel Razvi. There's a unique event coming up in the next couple of weeks on September 7th and 8th of 2024. I will be conducting the world premiere of a ballet that I've written on the story of Esther from the Bible, and that'll be in Rockville. You can go to estherballet.com and get tickets. There's a discount code, Hadassah, if you know, you know. And you can put that code in and you'll get a good discount on the tickets there. But it should be a wonderful time. I'll be conducting and we'll have a ballet company there as well. So estherballet.com, discount code Hadassah, September 7th and 8th. And one takeaway is don't be a Heyman. So they're sneaking some shibboleths into the discount code there. So only those who know can get the discount. Anyway, Barnes & Noble, I guess, online, you can go to Barnesandnoble.com. If you go to the local Barnes & Noble store, will you find it at the store, on the shelf, or just online? No, but it's coming out in print. So the book, again, is called The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord, published by Greg Windsor, but the author name is Tom Maccabea, so that's what you're looking for. This is the Faith Debate. You heard the voices of Imran Razvi, Daniel Razvi. I'm Troy Skinner. Again, we thank you for listening. We encourage you to find us online, WFMD.com and HouseholdofFaithinChrist.com are the best places to go. for that. And again, next week we're going to continue this conversation. We alluded to some of the history, but we didn't really get a chance to drill down on that. So we're going to do that 167 and a half hours from right about now. Until then, you be good to yourself and God bless. Yeah, sorry to kind of overshadow the other thing at the end. No, no, no, it's fine. No, no, no. To be honest, it slipped my mind. I'm glad that you remembered. Yeah, no, it's good. Yeah, I can only put it in these first two weeks, otherwise... Yeah, I know, because of the timing, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to make sure that we had a chance to promote the book, and I totally forgot about promoting your event. Yeah, sorry. I can certainly promote myself. I don't have to have help. It'll be a two-night deal. You know, this is so good getting feedback. This is really good. Okay, yeah, hot mic, watch out. All right, so let me get the next one ready. This next one airs on, what did we say? 9-1. Feedback, retest the linkage. All right, I'm going to jump right in while things are kind of still fresh on our mind. Does that work for everybody? Yes. That's good. I'm telling you, same thing happened last week. This mouse is really, I don't know if the battery is getting weak, but it is very skittish. I almost couldn't get the music to start. I don't know if you saw me fiddle, I tried to get the mouse to respond, it was totally unresponsive. And I'm not sure how to start the music without the mouse, so. Anyway. I'm going to dance and hum for you if you like. Yeah. Hum. Perfect pitch. Good morning. Thank you for spending part of your Sunday with us here on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. This is the Faith Debate. I'm Troy Skinner, the pastor of a church called Household of Faith in Christ, online at HouseholdofFaithinChrist.com. Of course, you can follow the Faith Debate on the radio station website at WFMD. We pick up this week with a conversation that started last week on a book called The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord written by Tom Maccabeus, published by Greg Windsor, and we entered that conversation talking about some of the biblical and non-biblical sources that support the arguments in the book, and we alluded to some of the history, church history and otherwise, in that, and we didn't really do a deep dive, so we're going to do that this week, and here to do that, again, Imran Razvi from Well, two places. The Church of Eats at Imrans, and also Conquered by Love Ministries online at conqueredbylove.org. And from those same places, Daniel Razvi, he's on again this week, along with Greg Windsor, who is the publisher of the book, The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord. And The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord is available for purchase at barnesandnoble.com. And it was interesting, I want to pick up on this before we get into the history stuff. You mentioned where people could get the book last week. and you mentioned that Barnes & Noble was one of the places that didn't kibosh it. So did you have some issue with people at other booksellers that said, yeah, we're not touching that type of thing? So the shocking thing is, okay, so this author writes a book and he's quoting history, that's all it is. It's here's the history, here's what the Bible says, not in any way attacking anybody. Yes, yes, going after the ideology, but not one single evidence of any kind of hate speech. So two publishers, very, very large, I'm not going to mention their names, but they said, take this, take this down immediately. So they shut it down, you know. They refused to run it, thus proving the initial point of the book, because the book starts out that we live in a time where Christians are losing their businesses. Christians are being sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars. People are being put in jail. Some people are being killed. Some people are losing their livelihood. Why? Because they just want to hold the marriages between a man and a woman. or they send out a Bible verse in a text message. The author has documented like 50 cases in the last couple of years of just blatant persecution because of this agenda. So the publishers basically proved the premise of the first chapter of the book. The ones who shut it down, anyway. It's interesting. Now, what's been the reception of, I mean, we've given you feedback, at least on last week's show we did. What other kind of feedback have you received? Have you had some hate mail? Have you had some people loving you? Well, some people have been very, oh, that's just homophobic. I mean, even some Christians, they said, look, this is homophobic, sounds homophobic. I wouldn't call them Christians then. Now that's interesting because anybody who heard last week's episode knows that I was the one who was asking some questions for clarification. Some of them could have even been accidentally characterized as pointed pushback, which wasn't the intention. It was seeking to just clarify the mode of communication in the book and that sort of thing. But despite any pushback I would have, maybe I'm just oblivious. I read the book. I don't see anything homophobic about it. The author intentionally tried to be redemptive and even mentioned, look, The whole pride parade thing started because the heterosexuals threw out the Bible. The sexual revolution, that was mainly heterosexuals. So it's not targeting, this is really important. The book is not targeting and saying, look how bad the LGBTQ is. No, it's about a whole entire worldwide sexual lawlessness, but it's being headed by the parade. I mean, any sex outside of a marriage between one man and one woman for life is ungodly and unbiblical and sinful. So there's a whole lot more that goes into that than just homosexuality. Yeah, and the reason I say, I mean, first of all, we've come to change our terms anyway, so if we want to go all the way back to what defining our terms and what it really means, homophobia means a fear of those that are homosexual or engaging in in homosexual behaviors. There's no fear of that in this book. Now, I know that it's come to mean something other than fear. It has to do with some sort of a hatred for those who engage in this sort of thing. But there's no hatred in this book either. Now, there is a definite and direct... Well, you call it sin. Yeah, it's definitely directly categorized as a sin. But those are just statements of biblical truth and fact from a Christian worldview perspective. Troy, you're behind the times. That's not the same as... If you say somebody's sinning, that means you must hate them. That's not the same as homophobia. Right. Now, I will say this. Anybody who's angry with this book or angry with what I just said or angry with the adeboeism I'm getting from Daniel, you're clearly Christophobic and you hate Christ and you hate Christians and you're afraid of Christ and you're afraid of Christians, which actually probably has some truth to it. What do you think of that? But, I mean, it works both ways. If we can't have an honest dialogue about where we're coming from on things, it's not just mere opinion. Now, again, I asked some clarifying questions last week, and so there are some differences between me and the author of this book, for instance. But the premise of the arguments that we all would make, at least those in this room and represented by this book, are the same. The premise of our argument is, what does God's Word say? And sometimes we don't always 100% fully agree on what God's Word is saying because we're emphasizing different things and we have to have a meeting in the mind, which is what a show like this is designed to do, to help us figure that out so that at the end of it all, we can hopefully get more closely aligned and be on the same page, like literally, I guess. But there's no homophobia. That's a little bit, other than generically, anything that's biblical being homophobic. If that's what you were hearing, well then, good for you, I guess. And, you know, the ironic thing, just for the record, the early Christians were called haters. That's what the Romans called them, haters. And cannibals. Yeah, right. And atheists. Right. Right, the atheists, yeah. So, also, you know, the responses have been kind of shocking, like, what? How come I never heard about this, you know? or else, and this is kind of hard to critique, but some Christians have a, well, you know, the world's always been evil, yeah, yeah, it's just another evil, almost like a blasé attitude towards it, but what they don't, I think what they're not getting is that If, you know, God declares the end from the beginning, and so Jesus, God gives us hundreds of prophecies in order to prepare his people, to encourage his people, so we won't be surprised. And so, if something is happening that's a specific prophecy, if we write it off as, yeah, that's just the world. The problem is, it's not just the world. It's one denomination after another. Every single denomination, I think, is pretty much, has either capitulated to that god of sensuality or lovers of self, lovers of pleasure. At least the big name denominations, a lot of them have. Right. Or, or else they're compromising. Yeah, I think I'm agreeing with what both of you just said. I think that what Greg Windsor is saying is that at some level, all the denominations are wrestling with and there are certain elements within certain denominations that are beginning to go astray. And I think what Daniel is trying to clarify is that they haven't been completely given over and some of them are fighting within their ranks and they're holding the line. It's been a challenge maybe. but they've been holding the line. So there are some good denominations and some good groups of churches that do exist. But I think that the point that Greg was making is that this infection is impacting the immune systems of all denominations. And all of the immune systems are being called to bear right now. And those with weak immune systems are falling apart. And no, no sarcasm meant it's like a spiritual AIDS virus. It goes after the immune system. And so, and let me just clarify, I wasn't trying to broad brush all the denominations up, but... That's my job. But you have denominations... We've talked about that on the program before. We've said... something to the effect of less than 1% of the people that call themselves churches are actually biblical churches that are worth attending. We're pretty extreme in that belief on this program here. So just today you have a major theological seminary, I'm not going to mention it because I don't want to pick on them, very conservative, who see, they'll say, oh yes, we believe marriage is between a man and a woman. They'll say that, but then they'll say, but we need to accept. these gay unions, or we need to accept LGBT kids. Like the Pope saying you can bless the union, you can't approve of it, but you can bless it. So the danger is the subtle apostasy. I mean, there's the obvious, there's the obvious, I believe obvious, you know, from the liberal Christianity that's, they abandoned scripture decades, if not centuries ago. But then there's the subtle thing of Christians holding to saying that they believe in marriage between a man and a woman, We believe in the traditional view, biblical view, really. But they're compromising subtly, and that's the real danger. Well, I would liken it to the abortion movement. You know, for the last few decades, there's been a number of so-called conservatives, so-called Christians. Well, I would never kill my baby. But, you know, what you do with your baby, that's up to you. No, it's not up to you. Sin is not up to you. You can say, on the one hand, look, it's not my place to specifically judge you, because God's already going to do that. But you need to be able to be vocal and say, well, what sin is, this is actually sin. And those same people that were compromising on that, well, personally, I'm pro-life. But those are the same people that said, well, I believe marriage is, but what you do in the privacy of your home with consenting adults, that's your business. Or you should attend a lesbian wedding, that's okay, etc. etc. So the thing is... Even give them a gift, according to Alistair Begg. And it's sad. So the fundamental issue is the spirit of Antichrist wants Christians to compromise. That's what he's after. And that's what Emperor Antiochus wanted them to fall away, to commit sin, to ruin their conscience. And that's what the spirit of this age is after. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is there's a real big spirit of fear that most Christians today will not stand up, will not be standing in the gap, as God has called men to do. They're not standing up for the biblical worldview. They're afraid. They're afraid of cancel culture, they're afraid of personal attacks, and they have right to, I mean, look at the attack the Supreme Court justices at their houses, you know? So the evil in this world is really going after anybody that stands up. And so most people don't want to stand up. They want to say, well, I may believe this, but you know what? You can believe whatever you want. And that's not the gospel. In fact, we're supposed to preach to people that this is what God says. It's not what I say. There's no reason to get mad at me, OK? This is what God says. And what I found funny that you guys said earlier is the homophobia, it's really Atheists are Christ-phobia. They are so afraid of God because they know they're wrong, and that's why they fight against it. If they don't believe there's a God, why would they fight against it, right? And so they have an unhealthy fear of God, not the right kind of fear of God that we're called to. If God isn't real, how can he be afraid? Right. I mean, literally, how can it... But really, the Christians are afraid, and that's something that... I mean, we understand where the fear comes from, but we still need to be strong against that, because we're not homophobic. We're homophobia-phobic. Like we're afraid of being called homophobes, right? And we should not be. Yeah, we need to get to the point. I think we've begun to get there on other issues. For example, I don't like using this word in a typical context, but here you'll know exactly what I'm talking about because it's the word that's thrown out. It's the label that's attached to somebody like those sitting in this room. You racist, you. And it's gotten to the point where that's been so commonly thrown out there that it means nothing anymore. I mean, there are people like, all right, that's all you got, call me. 20 years ago, they called somebody a racist. No, I'm not a racist. I've got many black friends. Like, they've got all those. But now it's like, okay, whatever. You got something else because that doesn't, it's meaningless. You've used it for everything, right? My, you know, my shoes are dirty. I'm a racist. You know, I didn't, I didn't wash my dishes after dinner. I'm a racist. Like, it's, it's, the label is attached to everything, whether it's a sinful behavior or not. So it doesn't mean anything anymore. So if that's all you got, I'm not offended, I'm not afraid of it. I think we need to get to that place with this homophobia and all the other garbage labels. It's ridiculous on the face. It's not going to impact me anymore. So whatever, I'm rubber, you're glue. We have to have that kind of an attitude. Whoever you throw at me bounces off me and sticks to you. Because a lot of times that's what it is that's going on, by the way, it's projection anyway. So we just need to let them own the projection that they're trying to fire at you. Right. And the important thing I think that you're touching on is, yeah, if you're rooted in what God said, if you know this is what God said, it doesn't matter what people say. But a lot of people, there's a spirit of intimidation that's designed to suppress, and that's part of the rainbow agenda. And that's why so many Christians, I believe, are falling away, or so many church members. Love that distinction, by the way. Church members falling away rather than Christians falling away. Well, yeah, that's a whole other subject there. But throughout history, you know, it's like Rome. By the way, here's another evidence. Let me just give you a little piece. Throughout history, there was anti-Christ figures. And there's a common thread. Many of the anti-Christ figures throughout history either promoted what we would call a rainbow agenda or lived out a decadent rainbow agenda. For instance, Nero. Nero, the early church thought, wow, this guy could be the Antichrist. Nero was like the archetype of an Antichrist. He did unspeakable things. And by the way, Nero had a parade too, where he married somebody and he went around Rome and tried to convince them. But even the decadent Romans didn't go along and say, no, no, no, let's keep marriage between man and woman. But the point is, it's the intimidation. So the early church, just a pinch of salt. Come on, just do a little pinch of salt. They finally came up with this litmus test to get them to fall away. So that's the spirit that we're dealing with. And I like that phrase, I mean, even the Romans, there are some distinctions. When I was in the camp of, oh wow, I never thought of this before, because I'd studied history a lot, I knew about the Maccabean Revolt, I knew about the history of what's now called Hanukkah, but really the Feast of Dedication, and those types of things. And even the nudity and the Genesium stuff, I had read that before, but nobody until I had read this book Nobody had connected the dots about, look, they were actually doing what we would call a pride parade, and they're actually marching to transgender gods, and they were actually forcing the believers to participate. That had never happened before in that way until today. And except in some ways it's even worse today, and that's why you would say even the Romans, it reminded me, I mean, there is There's one distinction, because all throughout history there have been deviant sexual behaviors, and even in Sodom we see that. Even in those situations, they never called it marriage or a replacement for marriage. They said this is something even the Romans would have this pederasty and homosexuality was rampant in the Roman Empire, but it was, hey, you do this thing when you're young and growing up and you take a male lover and this thing, that's part of the culture. And then, okay, now you're grown up, find a wife, propagate the species. They didn't call it marriage because they weren't stupid enough to think that this could be a replacement for the family. This was something else they did, which was fun or culturally appropriate or whatever, that was separate from the family. And what's happened in the last couple decades, and especially the last few years, is an intentional destroying of the family. Not only do we do these behaviors, we are calling it marriage, we are calling it a family. and to the extent that a family is not even necessary. And it's so stupid, just logically, you can't propagate the species that way. But that's the first time in history that that's been the case. But it does come from the closest parallel, even though this is worse than it's ever been, the closest parallel we've ever had has been in that time of the Maccabean Revolt. And that's, I think, the nice tie that this book makes. That's the voice of Daniel Rasby. The one who just said, right, is Greg Windsor, publisher of The Last Day's Pride Parade and The Return of the Lord. And Imran Razvi has also been on today's show, and I'm sure he'll have more to say as we continue today's program. I'm Troy Skinner. This is the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. So we very nicely dovetailed into the history kinds of points that I was hoping to focus on in this week's show. And it's interesting. I'm going to be the contrarian a little bit, but it's in a spirit of agreement. It's almost pulling out little fine hairs here and there. I felt like maybe the case was overstated or overplayed a little bit in the spirit of, you know, there's nothing new under the sun as we see in the Old Testament book of Ecclesiastes. I do agree though that there seems to be a pervasiveness and a scale that strikes us as new. It's across the globe, particularly the western portion of the globe, western civilization, and it's so pervasive and it has infected the visible church, anyway, in ways that feel unprecedented. And you do allude to – this book you've published alludes to the idea of the historical connections. We have the sexual deviancy of Sodom and Gomorrah. We have the stories in the Old Testament of rape and incest and all sorts of bad sexual behaviors and those who want to say, well, homosexuality doesn't exist anymore. Old Testament. Well, you need to read it again because it does, over and over again, actually. And then the time of the Maccabean Revolt. This is where my non-dispensational point of view has some effect on how I understand some of this. I don't disagree that what happened during the time of the Maccabees and the abomination of desolation there is a precursor pointing to something future, but I would say that an aspect of what that's pointing to is the abomination of desolation that would have happened in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple and all the things leading up to and incorporated in that. And even that is then leading to the ultimate, very end of time with the return of Christ. So I do think that there are these re-presentations of prophetic things. It was described to me once by a seminary professor, you know, from our point of view, we look off into the horizon and it looks as though there's just one mountain peak. But as you continue your march forward and you navigate through the woods and get closer and closer, you realize that, oh, it's not a mountain peak, it's a mountain range. From a distance, it looks like one mountain, but as you get a different perspective, you realize it's multiple mountains, and all those multiple mountains are aligned in such a way that they appear as one presentation of the future truth. And so, is it true that what was going on during the times of the Maccabean Revolt is pointing to things that are playing out still today? Yes, but it was also pointing to things that would play out in the first century. Absolutely. And I don't know that that was amplified in the book all that much, which is why my attention was drawn to it. So yeah, you want to respond to that? I think that because so much has been written about the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD, I think the author tried to cover territory that has not been covered. You study any kind of eschatology and there was a lot happening in 7 AD, partial fulfillments. But one interesting thing is that there is some historic record that Titus did defile the temple with a prostitution, a sexual defilement in the Holy of Holies. And that's the reason why some of the praetors think that that was the fulfillment of Daniel. But again, I agree with that position that that was only another foreshadowing for the final event of the final Antichrist. And you brought it up and I'm glad you did. So I'm just going to just make sure we don't do a quick drive-by reference to it. I don't want us to run the risk of underselling the unbelievable animalistic, not merely pagan, but demonic behavior of Nero. I think Nero as an individual and Nero and what those closest to him were involved with is really close to what we see on a grander scale. Nero had a quote-unquote marriage ceremony to his gay young lover. So he was even trying to treat that as a marriage. So that was more of a microcosm for what is playing itself out in a more macrocosm kind of a way. things were really, really bad once upon a time, and things are really, really bad now. And I think we've allowed ourselves to enter into some sort of weird cocoon where we lived in this false version of Christianity, the Christendom or the Churchianity, as I sometimes call it, where we think that, you know, oh, if we can go back to the 1950s, you know, life would be so much better. Well, you know, the Church and the loss of commitment to biblical sufficiency by the 1950s is what led to the 1960s and everything that has followed. So it's not like the 1950s were the good old days. We don't want to merely get back to that. We want to get back to something better than that. So we've got just a couple of minutes, and I want to leave us time again to promote some things. So I know that you want to promote how you can get the book, and Daniel's got an event coming up, so let's talk about those real quick. Yes. Okay, you can go to BarnesandNobles.com, look up Last Day's Pride Parade. And yes, and there's a couple other outlets. Actually, there's a lot of other outlets where you can go to draft the digital. and there's many other outlets that have it but just do a google search last day's pride parade and uh... i also wanted to talk about an event that's happening in uh... this coming weekend uh... september seventh and eighth uh... it's a ballet that i've written daniel rasby the composer do you dance in it i'm not dancing i'm conducting i'll be conducting a full live orchestra in the pit in rockville and we'll have dancers on stage Please tell me Imran dances in there. So anyway, if you're interested, I won't say any more, but if you're interested to see what's going on, then it's estherballet.com. Again, that's estherballet.com, and the discount code is Hadassah. And there's two performances. There are two performances. Saturday is the 7th, and Sunday the 8th. You have all the details on the website, estherballet.com. And I want to mention, this is not just entertainment. This actually will be the reading of Esther. It is biblical. The whole idea behind this is historically true and biblical, so it's not just entertainment. It just happens to be such music and dancing and all that, but we do read through the Book of Esther and we'll talk about that. So it's a performance for such a time as this. Exactly. Remind you, don't be a Haman. And there's a wonderful link of God's deliverance in the face of an Antichrist spirit with Haman. Yes. Yeah. Well, good. Good stuff. And I'll promote their ministry. The Razzies have a ministry called Conquered by Love Ministries online at conqueredbylove.org. And, of course, they pastor a church called the Church at Imran's House. And he's not here, but I'll promote him real quick. I've done that a couple of times, but David Forsey, he's typically on this panel. He's not here this time, but he's a pastor in the area. If you want to get in touch with him or connect with what he's all about, you have to do that through me, because he doesn't really do a whole lot of online stuff. And you can connect with me. You can go to WFMD.com, but I think it's a little easier to connect with me directly through email or even my phone number, that sort of stuff, and learn about everything that's involved with this show and our various ministries at HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. It's a one-stop shop where you can connect with podcasts of this show, which are always posted on the station's website and also eventually onto SermonAudio.com and Odyssey.com and all my social media and that sort of stuff. You can connect with all of that again through the hub that is the website, HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. So we're going to continue our conversation about the last day's pride parade and the return of the Lord and issues that may be related to it as we begin to pivot perhaps into some other areas and hot topics. We'll do that next week, 167 and a half hours from right about now. Till then, God bless. Let me save this audio file. I think logically it makes sense for us to get into more distinct applications for today. You know, there's the history, there's some of the biblical arguments, there's some of the stuff about pushback, all that sort of stuff. But now, you know, more of a call to action, the application, like if this was a three-point sermon. Yeah, the application. The application. So what does this all mean for what we should be doing now? And how does the history and the Bible and the extra-biblical books inform what we should be doing? Does that make sense to you? Yep. Amen. Sounds good. I had bronchitis a couple weeks ago, and bronchitis is a bear, boy. It stays with you past when you're sick. It's like the virus and the illness does damage or something to your bronchial tract, and so it's taking some very dry... So I apologize if my coughing and clearing my throat is distracting or problematic. I haven't even noticed it yet. I took my eye test to do it. Okay, never mind, I didn't say anything. What are you talking about? There's one right there. Is it possible for somebody to get like last minute tickets on the 8th or not really? I don't know how sold out it will be. Gotcha. We can certainly mention it. Yeah. And they can go on the website because there will be some future performances potentially next year in March. By that time we'll have those out probably or the next week they'll be out. My computer's running out of juice. I guess you'll have to go by memory. Yeah. You've been doing fine so far with that. Yeah, I don't even know. Have you referred to it that much? No, it's a lot of stuff in my head. I've got no space on there, sorry. Oh, you're trying to find a plug? That won't reach? That is short, isn't it? How about over there? Can I plug in it over there? There's a plug down in the bottom shelf. It's going to reach here. The bottom shelf has a plug. Okay, that's good. That is the largest plug I've ever seen. That's huge. I know. Why is it so big? All the Mac plugs are like that. All the Macs, yeah. Really? Yeah, because you know, most computers, they have the cord, and then they have the transformer, and then this one's just at the outlet. Wow. That makes it a little less convenient for plugging in, though, because you can't always find an outlet that'll fit. Yeah, I know. It's not good. Yeah. You know what? It's not good. It comes apart, and the little corner of it will replace with different country plugs. So that's how that works, so you can just pull it in. All right. All right, you guys ready? Yeah. Good morning to you. Thanks for spending part of your day with us here on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. This is the Faith Debate. I'm Troy Skinner, joined this week by Imran Razvi, Daniel Razvi, and Greg Windsor. We're going to be talking about The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord. That's a book that you can find at barnesandnoble.com and perhaps in a really good used bookstore or something maybe. I don't know where else you might be able to find it. Anyway, this is our third go-round, talking about this book with the publisher of the book, Greg Windsor. And by the way, I should probably do an adequate job promoting the other people and their resources. You can find all sorts of really good family and devotional and household-related, marriage-related kinds of stuff through the ministry that the Razvys have had now for, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it is now. They're online at ConqueredByLove.org. Their ministry is Conquered By Love Ministries. And you can connect with me online, of course, at WFMD.com and HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. I know it's a mouthful, but that's the name of the church, Household of Faith in Christ, and so we just added a .com to the end and came up with a web address. And if you missed it, there may or may not still be tickets available. I'm not sure. You can go to estherballet.com. There's a performance later today of the world premiere of Esther, the ballet that I've written and I'll be conducting, and we'll have a group on stage and so on. So it's again, estherballet.com in Rockville. And the world premiere was yesterday, and the second ever presentation is today. That's right. Yeah, 3 o'clock, I think, is today, right? I believe so, yes. But go check it out on the website. I'm not sure if there are any tickets left, but you can also send us a message and be on the list if we ever do some future events. Yeah, because the plan is to do, like, this is the first annual of something, right? It might not be the same ballet. It might be a different ballet in the future, but it would do other events. We're looking at some other opportunities. So yeah, all that will be on the website. It's EstherBallet.com. Now, Will, sorry to kick off the show with a whole bunch of promotional kinds of stuff, but your church has done a lot of things almost monthly, at least quarterly, where you have barbershop quartets or special singers or musicians or presentations. You had a spiritual warfare conference this past spring, for example. There's lots of things that you've been Will those sorts of things be on that same website? No, we don't have a social media presence for the church, so you can certainly reach out to me directly if you're interested in getting involved and being part of some of those other events. But this one, the Esther Ballet, was a public event. Okay. And shame on me, and maybe there's not a good answer to this question or an existent answer to this question, but Greg Windsor, you've got this book you've published called The Last Day's Pride Parade and The Return of the Lord, which people can buy at Barnes & Noble. But if they wanted to connect with you or follow you in some other way, do you have a social media presence or a website or something? You can contact me. Yes, you can contact me through Gab. through the Worthy Forum or Gab. Okay. Now, the Worthy Forum, I'm not familiar with. Gab, I am. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm on Gab. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. I'm on MeWe. Contact me through Gab. Parler is back. I'm on that. What else am I on? LinkedIn. What else am I on? I don't know. I'm probably forgetting some. Not all of us are social butterflies like you, Troy. Truth social. I feel like I'm forgetting a couple, I don't know. I'm on a lot of those, the ones that conservatives who got kicked off of other forums, I'm typically on those. And I'm on YouTube, I guess, if you want to call it, and I'm on Sermon Audio and Odyssey.com. Anyway, if you're on any of the ones I just mentioned, or you're curious about one that I maybe forgot to mention, go to HouseholdOfTheFaithInChrist.com, and you can see all the different social media links. And if you want to connect with me there, I'm happy to do it. I'm not very interactive as a start, but I will respond to those who interact with me. So I post, but I don't jump on other people's postings and get into all the Twitter wars and the comment sections. I don't typically do that. But I will post, and if somebody wants to interact with me on one of my posts, I'm happy to do that until it becomes inane and or insane, and then I will bow out. But I'll give you ample opportunity to prove yourself as either inane or insane before I do that. So fair warning. Alright, so we're talking about this book, The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord. So, The Last Day's Pride Parade, we've talked about the historical connections, we've made some biblical arguments, some extra-biblical historical connections, those sorts of things. Talking about, you know, what's new, what's not, that sort of thing. But now we're getting into, and the return of the Lord. So now we're, we are closer to the return of the Lord today than we've ever been. Amen, we all agree. And so what does that mean for us? The things that are talked about in this book, talking about these goeth-before-fall parades, things like that aren't anything necessarily brand new, but they seem to have reached new heights. And we've talked about how that's infected the church and the churches in too many ways. The visible church has fallen away or has been allowed themselves to be infected in ways that are unbiblical or unhelpful for sure. He obviously wrote this book not just to educate us about the history, but to understand that maybe the times that we're in, and maybe even as a call to action. So as the publisher of this book that's been written by Tom Maccabeus, what would you say we need to be cognizant of? If somebody were to do anything with what we've talked about these last couple of shows and again today, what do you hope we'll do with this information? Well, I think, you know, surrounding many passages in the New Testament, end times, last days, you'll notice the word, it's like, watch out, be on your guard, you know, be careful that you don't get led astray with the air of lawless men, you know, all these, you know, flee, flee immorality. So it's like there's these constant warnings. So I think that the church has to be grounded in the Word of God and drawing near to Him and pursuing holiness. If we're pursuing holiness and something comes along which is defiling or, God forbid, an abomination, we recoil at that. Or if it's leading astray young people, which is a whole other serious issue. So the church, first of all, I think needs to hold on to God's Word And I think that the author also tries to highlight this thing of come out, flee. The Maccabees, they fled, they fled to the mountains. Matthew 24, flee to the mountains. Sodom and Gomorrah, get out, get out. And in Revelation 17 and 18, there's this whole concept of mystery Babylon. which is a major New Testament tie-in. And what is the defining characteristic of Mystery Babylon? It corrupts the earth with immorality. So there's this defining characteristic and it says, watch out for the teaching of Balaam who corrupts the servants to immorality. And of course it's spiritual morality too. Jezebel, what does Jezebel do? Revelation two, seduces God's servants. So there's this constant theme throughout scripture linking the sexual defilement with the false teachers and all that. And so God's people have to stand firm. And first of all, separate ourselves, be separate. Not in a holier-than-thou way, but just do not let this stuff infect us. Now, Greg knows his Bible so well, he just casually made a mention to Mystery Babylon, but not everybody who hears him talk about that will know what he's talking about. He's in the book of Revelation. He's talking about, there's two beasts in Revelation. One of them is depicted as a harlot. kind of the church has lost its way, it's false teaching, and it's basically, in an immoral way, marrying itself to the world system, the world governments, the ways of the world, that sort of thing. And this harlot is riding atop the beast and has a name across her forehead, Mystery Babylon, and words that go on from there. And so that's the, if you want to look that up later and see what the context there is. But it's talking about the corruption of the world and the corruption of the visible church working in concert with one another, where one infects the other and the other infects the one, and they almost become indistinguishable. And they are distinguished, but their aim, and they actually turn on each other. It's interesting in the book of Revelation. So they're not completely in lockstep. Satan's kingdom is divided. Their aim is to destroy everything that is godly. And by definition, then, those who are truly followers of Christ, the ones who have been called out to be holy ones, the aim is to set their sights, the beast's sights are set on them. And that's what we see going on in this world. So that's why it's exactly directed to what the book is talking about. There's this incredible energy and effort that's directed at all things biblical, all things godly, all things that are about the true church, about holiness, are under assault, where things we've taken for granted, and it's not just biblical per se, it's even the things that would be merely part of the natural order of things as God created them. So it's not just the world is attacking chapter and verse, but it's attacking these pervasive truths that are just have been considered common sense like for our whole life until now it's no longer common sense because it was common because people were rooted in a in western civilization common sense was biblical sense because we were rooted in biblical truths even if you weren't christian you were reared on biblical truths you just accepted them as common truth but now that's completely rejected my grandfather used to say common sense is very uncommon among the common people Yeah, and we've crossed a line where I think there's an ebb and flow to history. I think it's happened before. I don't think that we're completely distinctly unique, but there's something that's fresh and new for sure. But we've crossed a line from merely pagan to demonic. Right? Yeah, and I would say that the whole purpose of that side, the evil in this world, is to replace what was common-sense, biblically-based worldview to a new common-sense, which is the evil-based, devil-based worldview. So what we call the biblical worldview is being replaced daily, and they're changing the meaning of words to help change the worldview. They're forcing people to accept and participate, just like the last day The Bible is showing that it's not okay just to be a bystander, but you have to participate now. And so a lot of Christians say, well, you know, we think and act differently in church, but out here we have to interact with the public and, you know, we're trying to be the salt of the world. Be loving and kind. Affirming. Reach out. We can't help them or save them if we don't participate with them. And that is completely wrong. You can't put, you know, you can't purify poison. You just can't. And I love how you're drawing attention to the participation part. Probably a couple of decades ago now, a dear pastor, a mentor of mine, really, he was talking about how the typical slide into degeneracy that we see in the world and in the church even, it starts with this lean to be tolerant. You know, I'm not going to agree, but I'm going to tolerate it. You know, I'm not going to call it out as sin. I'm just going to coexist with it. I'm going to tolerate it. But then the next step after tolerance and what the pressure the world puts on you is to not merely tolerate, but to accept. To affirm. Right, yeah, to accept and affirm. So it's not just that I'm going to tolerate it. It's wrong, but I'll be okay with it. Now I'm not going to even say it's wrong. I'm not even going to go so far as to call it a sin. And you feel like that'll satisfy the world. That'll keep the wolves at bay. They won't be at my throat anymore. But that's not enough. What they then want is they want you to celebrate. It's not enough that you tolerate. It's not enough that you accept. You now have to celebrate. You have to march in their parades. You have to be a part of the celebration and wave the flags and put the things in your store window and all that sort of stuff. But now we've gotten to the point where it's gone to a fourth level that that pastor I just mentioned didn't even have on his radar screen 20 years ago. which is they want active participation. There's all these articles you can read about how you are such a hater if you, a straight man, refuse to go on a date with a man who thinks he's a woman. Because, of course, I mean, he's a woman, so that's heterosexual. No, it's not. It's homosexual. And they don't even have room for the people who say, well, I wouldn't date somebody that's transgender because that's no longer dating somebody of the opposite sex at that point. And they have no towers for that. You have to join in. You have to actively say, you're OK with that. And it's crazy. Let me reset again. This is the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. I am Troy Skinner. You just heard the voice of Daniel Razvi, and chiming in for half a second while he was talking was Greg Windsor, and you also heard right before that Imran Razvi. We're talking about issues related to this book, The Last Day's Pride Parade and the Return of the Lord, published by Greg Windsor. You can find it at BarnesandNoble.com. Go ahead. uh... first we overlook evil then we permit evil then we legalize evil then we promote evil then we celebrate evil and then we persecute those who still call it evil that's the other quote i've heard before it's not my quote i've heard it somewhere before and you're seeing christians who claim themselves to be christians persecuting people that are actually standing up for the bible and that's really where we've gotten the so-called christians of this world are now persecuting anyone that stands up for the truth And it's not just in the LGBT. I mean, we've talked about on the program a few weeks ago, or a couple months ago now maybe, about how the pro-life movement, largely made up of professing believers, are persecuting the abolitionist movement. Those who say that it should be considered murder and anybody who participates in it should be a murderer and punished criminally. That argument is completely rejected by the pro-life movement. In fact, they're demonizing people who hold that opinion. which is a more biblical opinion. Yeah, and the whole linguistic argument thing, and Enron was talking about how they changed the language, they changed the meaning. You know, it wasn't too many weeks ago now, there was an article that I saw, and it was talking about, I think it was one of the Ivy League schools maybe, or some big think tank or something, I can't remember. What the source of this was but the point of it was that they've now deemed that if you use the word Biologically or phrase I guess biological male or biologically female that that's hate speech So if you're trying to explain what's a trans woman? What's a trans man? You're trying to explain that well You know you have a biological male who and you go on to finish that sentence you can't finish sentence because just saying biological male is hateful and It's descriptive and even that that descriptor I'm not a fan of that even because that's almost conceding the argument before you've started it right biologically male No, male. Physiologically, biologically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Definitively, male. Why are we going to just subdivide? We've already surrendered the ground before we started the argument. That's the whole point I was saying before. It's not enough. it's you can surrender all the ground in the world until you actively engaged in it yourself they won't be satisfied yeah i mean now we also will pedophilia is still going to be bad but it's not anymore it's MAP you're a minor attractive person you can't even say pedophilia anymore minor attractive person so they're trying to normalize all the evil that's out there and to the point where you gotta start promoting it and then it'll be the other so-called christians will be turning in christians that don't support it and don't We'll move forward on that. Just to, you know, there's a phrase, Revelation 13, it says, you know, speaking of commonly the Antichrist, it says he causes all to receive the mark. It's that word in the Greek, there's a coercion, there's a manipulation. so that the people do it themselves. And just getting back to history, that is exactly what Ambrontiakus wanted. He wanted each person at the sacrifice, not just the abomination temple. Everybody had to own it for themselves to fall away. So that spirit of intimidation is alive and well. But there's a verse, it says, the people who know their God, shall stand firm and do exploits. So there's knowing God, standing firm, and then doing exploits, reaching out the power of the gospel, because it's invincible. Stand your ground. Say, no, we love you, but this is sin. So it's a call to action. And here's why it's so disconcerting. You said, this is sin. That's why it's so disconcerting. It's not so much that it's this evil, horrible sin, although it is, It's missing a mark from the holiness that God represents and that God calls us to. And so I don't want us to merely be talking about the negatives and be on the attack against the evil, although we need to call evil out, particularly the evil that's within the church. We need to identify the wolves and shoot them so that we can protect the sheep. But protecting the sheep unto what? there's a beautiful picture there. So what makes this evil so horrendous is the truth, the beautiful truth that it denies, that we have a Creator who is loving and almighty and all-powerful and He's a God of order and a God of perfect holiness and righteousness and everything that God endeavors to do is done well, like is done to the perfection of doing things well. And so we're called to be like him. We were made in his image. And that's a beautiful thing. But of course, we have this sin, which is we've been talking about now rather extensively. And so that sin, not only is it an evil, that's a sin against God, but it's an affront against what we were made to be. Yeah, we're not living up to the beautiful thing that God made us to be. And so we want to call people to holiness because there's blessing in that. There's blessing in walking the true walk. There's blessing in having an actual biblical marriage. There's blessing in raising a biblical family and training your children up in the way they should go. There's great blessing in those things. And when we fall short of that, that's where you have all the angst and the trouble and the anger and the venom and the death. Just the disgusting dirt of our lives. It's because of this sin. So we want to call people to what's good and beautiful. And that good and beautiful is represented by Christ, who lived the perfect beautiful life and died the perfect death that we should have died. And then we can... Once we embrace that, we can live that out by increasing sanctification out of gratitude for God. So it's not about trying to avoid the evil so much as about trying to embrace the holy, embrace the good. Because that's what ultimately we're going to have in glory. Everything is perfect. There is no evil. It's only the beautiful. It's only the good that's alive. But it's the devil's counterfeit of the biblical culture and the biblical worldview. And the biblical worldview, I mean, we've teased this on the program that we're going to be talking about this at some point soon, maybe in the next few months, the idea that in the world generally there's three main paradigms, you know, the guilt and innocence, and the fear and power, and the honor and shame. And all three of those have their roots in biblical, the true versions of those have their roots in the Bible. But there's also counterfeit versions of all of those. And the counterfeit version of honor-shame culture is arrogance and pride. In fact, I've heard some sermons where some pastors have Attempted and failed to properly distinguish between the biblical desire to be honored and to have honor With pride and arrogance because it can look very similar on the outside But it's a counterfeit if you if you don't know what you're looking for and this pride parade thing This is all desiring false honor. They are in a state of shame sexual immorality causes great shame and they want to be honored so they're they're proclaiming honor on themselves by being prideful, saying, look, look at me, I'm so arrogant, I'm so prideful. And that is exactly the counterfeit of honor. Because honor can only come from above. Only God can provide you honor. Someone that's more honorable than yourself can give you honor. And the honor, you cannot place it on yourself. And that is the devil's counterfeit. All of the devil's counterfeit cultures come from oneself. They don't come from God from the outside. So I think the pride parades and the pervasiveness of that is the infiltration of the devil's counterfeit honor and shame into a culture that traditionally has been very guilt and innocence oriented. And a lot of Christian pastors, they may be fighting it the wrong way. They may be thinking of it as, oh no, you're guilty, you're going to hell or whatever, but it's not so much that. We understand, you're in a position of shame. You know who can cover that shame is God, and here's how we tell you about Him. So there's a positive way to preach that, and I think that may be something that we need to dig more deeply into at some point. And some are so given over that in their heart has become so hard that they would argue and retort to you that I don't feel any shame. That's because they become so calloused. They glory in their shame, the Bible says. But we can see not everybody is as completely given over yet to the hardness of their heart and they're not as calloused yet. And you can see it in the statistics. The level of depression, the level of suicides, the level of substance abuse is much higher among the people within these sinful groups. I don't want to use the word communities because I don't think they fit the definition of community. But these people identify as belonging to certain groups, they have outcomes on the whole that are far worse than the outcomes of those who don't say that they belong to one of those groups. And so that is something that is just, you know, the statistics would bear that out. I don't want to forget we've got a couple minutes left on on the show. And so I do want to have a chance to promote the book one more time. And we might have a chance for a last-minute purchase of the things. And so I do want to do that. Before we get into it, is there anything specific to what we've talked about the last three weeks that you'd like to say in 30 or 45 seconds to put a button on some things? no otherwise we can just start promoting away i think one of the things that's one of the of the last day price rate is really to open your eyes they'll don't be asleep anymore stand-up no one is right by using the bible and stand for that don't be afraid don't be afraid of people telling you that this is not the way the world is anymore the world is the way the world is but you are a christian so stand up for being christian Good words. I like that. That should be almost like the last word. You have something better to say? Well, I just want to say, you know, the good news is, and this is under-reported, there's a lot of people coming out. There's people who are waking up after living in that lifestyle, just like many of us woke up after living in heterosexual sin. And the gospel is changing people. People are coming out of it to God's beautiful plan, you know, like what you're talking about. So there's good things happening. All right, so your website for your events and stuff, the one that's today and ones that might come in the future. Yeah, estherballet.com, so E-S-T-H-E-R, ballet, B-A-L-L-E-T. And that's going to be the website, even if you have an event that's not about ballet or Esther, it's going to be the website? No, that's going to be the event for all things dealing with this ballet that I've written and any future performances of that and contact information will be there as well. Okay, very good. And connecting with you and buying the book one more time? Yes, just go to Barnesandnobles.com, type in Last Days Pride Parade, and it's also available in other outlets. Okay. Thank you. If somebody's destitute, is there a way for them to try to get a copy of the book? Absolutely. There's a complimentary copy available to people. If people contact me personally, I will get you a complimentary copy of the e-book. Okay, very good. So if you want to get in touch with the publisher of the book, Greg Windsor, just get in touch with me and I'll put you in touch with Greg and we'll handle it that way. And to do that, go to householdoffaithinchrist.com. You'll find my email. You'll actually find my phone number there as well. I'm a pretty open book on that sort of thing. If you harass me, I might block you, but I haven't had to do that just yet. So you could be the first. You could be precedent setting. You could be that one. There's always that one, you know. And of course, I don't always give a fair shot at promoting the radio station the way I should. We're incredibly grateful that we have this time to talk about these sorts of things every week on Sunday mornings at 9 o'clock. And so definitely go to WFMD.com. You can get updates on local news and see what's going on with the other shows. And you can connect with the Faith Debate. The Faith Debate does have its own page at WFMD.com. You can see what's coming up on future shows. You can see what was on recent shows. You can connect with all the podcasts, that sort of thing. So you can definitely do that there. And if you're on Sermon Audio or Odyssey.com, I definitely encourage you to find the podcasts of the show. there as well. Well, we're going to continue our conversation on the faith debate next week, 167 and a half hours from now. God bless. Kind of what you expected or? No, this is really good. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. you know, the dialogue, and it really helps to fine-tune, you know. So you'll be able to see the whole thing when he posts it to Rumble, this whole two-hour, three-hour session. And then you also, in September, you're going to get the episodes one by one on Sermon Audio, podcasts, and other things. Okay, great. So yeah, August 25th is the first one, he said. August 25th. Great. Now, I'm not feeling like there's a whole lot of additional ground with the book to talk about. Was there anything else you guys were hoping we would end up talking about in tangential relation to the book that we just never got to? I think maybe how to reach out. You know, it's so difficult for Christians because we're in this place of We have to address the sin and not being defiled, and then how to reach out to people in that lifestyle, which is a whole important issue, too. But that's the only thing that I was thinking about. It's the basic evangelism to the lost kind of idea? And also to Christians in churches, trying to help Christians to not be confused by, to not be seduced by certain arguments, but to just judge rightly the whole situation. And we have talked kind of extensively about the evils of the LGBT movement here on this program quite a few times. I don't think there's ever a time to talk too much about that, honestly. But there's nothing that I feel pressing like, oh, we have to cover this. It's really important in this context that we didn't just cover in the last three episodes, but I'm happy to keep going. Okay. Do you have anything on your end? Yeah, I was just thinking that maybe we should pivot a little bit towards Christians, don't compromise. I don't care what your pastor says. Check with the Bible. Read the Bible. Don't wait for somebody else to tell you what the Bible says. Read it yourself. And don't compromise. Because we each, as individuals, need to stand up and be there for Christ. He died for our sins. I don't care what anybody else says. I don't care what is now acceptable. It is not acceptable if the Bible says no. So we need to go back to the Bible. And that would be a call to everybody to go back to the Bible and read. And try to come to a point where you're following God's commands. Maybe we could address the issue of what does it mean to be welcoming people? There's arguments that are set forth that are deceptive. Well, let's just welcome people. And there's all kinds of embedded deception that is hindering Christians from judging rightly the whole issue. Yeah, I think maybe we could talk about what some of the arguments that we might hear or that others would be hearing and how they might even strike somebody as persuasive because you want to be welcoming. Sure. That sounds like a good argument. Right. I don't want to be unwelcoming, right? So we could maybe think of, on the fly, we'll probably think of other examples of things that we've heard and we can try to address those and equip people. So yeah, maybe we can get one more show before we wrap up for the evening. Welcome to the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. Good morning. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I know your time is valuable. We do not take it for granted. If you're listening to it live, well, we thank you for listening to NewsRadio 930 WFMD. We very much appreciate that. The radio station does too, I'm sure. If you're listening to this later on podcast, well, we love you just as much. And if you'd like to comment on the social media platforms that this show ends up appearing on, glad to interact with you. there. You can connect with all those platforms and this show and all those sorts of things rather easily. Just go to the one-stop shop for doing so. Go to HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. That's the name of the church, Household of Faith in Christ. That's the church I pastor. Just add a .com to the end of that, and you can connect with me rather easily. You can connect with the Razvys, Daniel Razvy and his father Imran Razvy, known as Raz to his friends. They have a website, ConqueredByLove.org, for their ministry called Conquered By Love Ministries, and they co-pastor a church in the Thurmont area. called The Church that Meets at Imran's House, and we are joined for a fourth time. It might be the last time for a little while that we're joined by Greg Windsor. He is the publisher of a book called The Last Day's Pride Parade and The Return of the Lord by Tom Maccabees. You can find that at BarnesandNoble.com, so we encourage you to check that out. And so we've talked about the previous three weeks on this topic and talked about this book. We've talked about the history, biblical connections, some extra biblical connections. We've talked about kind of the way the church has kind of lost its way in so many ways, the pressures that are placed upon us by the world, the ungodly pagan and even demonic influences of the world and all those sorts of things. We began to get into some practical application stuff and what that all means for us last week. But I think we need to spend some time making sure that we're all equipped, helping to equip others, addressing elephants in the room, because the winds in the sails are pushing us in a particular direction, right? So we've got to know how to adjust the tact on our sails so we don't get driven in the direction of the sirens and get taken into all sorts of evil outcomes. I'm mixing ancient mythology and biblical truth there. So what are some things that sound like persuasive arguments that we need to be on guard against? And if they're not hearing answers from the pastors or the Sunday school teachers or what have you, or the online ministries that they're listening to, maybe we can help. So what are some things? For example, the big one is, well, Imran, you sound like a real hater. You just hate everybody. What's wrong with you? And it can sound like you're a hater, right? And I began to try to address that a little bit toward the middle part of last week's show. But what do we say in response to, well, you just hate, you hate homosexuals. You hate lesbians. You hate queer community. You hate trans people. You just hate, hate, hate. And it sounds like you are wagging a finger. That's sinful. That sounds hateful. Why are you not being hateful? Because I'm not hating anyone. hating sin and I'm loving God. So it's not me that is saying don't do this. God is saying that. So don't come to me with your hate. I'm just reading the Bible and saying this is what God says. So first of all, you've got to understand who God is. And if you understand who God is, wisdom comes by the fear of God. And the problem is, people have lost the fear of God. We've been so wealthy, so comfortable in this country, that there is no fear of God. And because there's no fear of God, wisdom has gone out the window. And I think that's where people come back and say, just like me coming up to somebody and saying, when did you stop beating your wife? that automatically implies you're being a wife. It doesn't mean that you ever were, but that's what it's implied. So when you say, well, you're such a hater, you're assuming that something's there that's not always there. And I'm not here to defend that what I hate or not hate. I love everybody. I think God loves everybody, but he doesn't love sin. He doesn't love your blatant desire to not be with him. He's there with his open arms, and it's a free gift to be with him. But that free gift comes with a price. It's kind of funny. It's a free gift, but it comes with a price. What is the price? You've got to give up your sinful ways. You have to leave the world. Repent. And, I mean, it says who the Lord loves, that's who He chastens, right? If He didn't love you, then why would He bother telling you to stop doing things? He doesn't care. And, you know, it was said really well by a famous atheist, Penn Jillette, which I think was mentioned on the program. He said, look, if you're a Christian and you're not telling me that I'm in sin and I'm going to hell, you must really hate me, because that means you want me to go to hell. You not only believe I'm going to hell, but you're not telling me about it, so you must really want me to go there. That's really hateful. So the most hateful thing is to not preach the gospel. But I'll throw another one at you. So, Troy, you know, you keep saying homosexuality is wrong and stuff and LGBT is wrong. In this day and age, I mean, we're modern and involved, we understand that really consent is the primary determiner of whether something's moral and correct. So as long as the people involved in whatever the action is, as long as they consent, they all want to do it, then what's the harm in that? I mean, even the passages in the Bible you put this on, oh, they were trying to rape, you know, all these other things, passages mostly seem to talk about, you know, forced activity. And no, I'm not a fan of forcing anybody to do anything. We know that's disingenuous because we talked about that last week, but what would you say to that? Consent is, first of all, the ultimate arbiter of what is moral. Second of all, all the examples in the Bible of deviant sexual behaviors have to do with generally forced behavior or rape, and that's been what's talked of as bad. Yeah, one of the first things that occurs to me, it's not necessarily quoting a scripture verse, but it's one of those truisms that we kind of grew up with, the idea that misery loves company. So just because two people agree to participate in something doesn't automatically mean that it's not going to bring misery. You know, sin ultimately will bring misery. It might feel good in the moment. It might fill you with a sense of euphoria and you think, this is the best thing I've ever done. And that feeling or that idea might even stay with you for a stretch of time, a season of life. It might stay with you to your grave. But ultimately, sin, unrepentant sin, brings misery. And misery loves company. So just because two people consent to engage in it together doesn't mean that they won't have a miserable eternity. So there's that. The other thing is, this is a fancy term, but there's something that talks about the fall of man and our sinful nature now. We are corrupt. And one of the things that is corrupt is our mind. Our brains don't work the way they're supposed to. Our mind is not holy. It's called the noetic effects of the fall. Meaning that I don't care how high your IQ, how clear you might think that your thinking is, it's not perfect. And so you can make mistakes, right? We've all had errors in our thinking. And so you might think that this is good because two people are consenting, but you can't know for sure that it's good because your brain is broken. God knows what's good, and God is the ultimate perfect arbiter of what is right, what is wrong, and what is okay, and what is not, and what's going to bring misery, and what's going to bring blessing. So we were totally dependent on God, who knows all things. That old story about the elephant, you know, you've heard this analogy. One person, they're all blindfolded, and one person grabs a tail and says, oh, the elephant, it's like a rope. And the other person feels the side of the elephant while they're blindfolded. Oh, an elephant is like a big wall. And they all have these different perspectives. And the idea there is, well, who can know? Well, the one who can see the whole elephant can know. God sees the whole elephant. So God knows if you're grabbing the tail, if you're pressing against the side that feels like a wall. God knows all, so we have to be dependent on him. So those are the kinds of things that I would... And it's not just that you say that in the Bible there's a lot of stories where it seems like there's forced deviant behavior, but it wasn't always forced. there were people that were deviant in concert with one another. They were consenting. Somebody would have a sexual dalliance or would commit a particular sin, or there was the group of men who joined together with the whole story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those men were all working in concert. They were all in agreement with one another that what we're doing here is good, but it wasn't. So we can find examples in the Bible too where it's not just forced. There's some debate about this. I don't necessarily agree with those who hold to the view that Bathsheba was raped. So I think that Bathsheba was a willing participant in her adulterous affair with David. So they were consensual. So because David and Bathsheba had a consensual dalliance while her husband was off fighting a war on David's behalf, mind you, just because they were both consenting doesn't make that adulterous affair any less wrong. So we can find examples in the Bible. So anyway, that's kind of a long-winded answer. But don't you see that Jesus didn't punish the woman taking adultery? He said, you know, just I'm not going to condemn you. Sin no more. He did say sin no more. So there's a couple of things. One, first of all, there's some debate as to whether or not that's authentic scripture or not. So there is that. It is. But assuming that it is, he does then say, go and sin no more. So there's an implication there that she had sinned. And he was following the legal framework, because it says you need to have witnesses, and there were no witnesses. They all left, and you have to have at least two, and Jesus was the only one standing there, right? So there was that. Me, the Father, and the Spirit. He could have said that. But the other thing, too, is we have to understand the moment. And Christ, in his first coming, didn't come to demonstrate God's wrath. Right. He reads from the book of Isaiah, the scroll of Isaiah, and then he stops right before it gets to the part where there's going to be wrath. So we were talking about this last week about the mountain ranges and you see the mountain. It looks like, oh, there's just one mountain. You elevate or you get a different perspective. You see there's more than one mountain. So there's a there's like a double fulfillment. So Christ, his coming. comes in two phases. And the first phase is a call to repentance. It's the grace-filled aspects of the Messiah. And then there's the wrath of God aspect of the coming Messiah, and that's still to come. And so if she doesn't repent and she goes and continues to sin, she doesn't follow the instruction to go and sin no more, she's going to face the wrath of God. We talked in between last week's show and this week's show about We want to be reaching out to others. We want to be evangelistic. We want to be welcoming. We want to welcome people into the truth of the gospel. We want to welcome them into our church. And if you're going to be pointing out their sins, aren't you being unwelcoming? So how do we respond to that, or what's the tact to take? I have some thoughts about what that means and there's some truth actually in that, but I don't want to steal the show I've just talked for like three minutes in a row. So what do you say Greg? Someone wants to put it this way, you know, we have to have grace and truth You can't compromise the truth that I think we have to we have to love the truth So yeah, we have to reach out in grace and I'm an evangelist and I I really want to reach out to people So there it's a really a fine line to walk in. It's like, yeah, we want to be welcoming people, but just like anybody who has fallen from God's original plans, like what you were saying, you know, it's going to be disastrous. And so in love with gentleness and respect, I think that's the key, just to love people enough to tell them. And I think that With humility most Christians have probably fallen in some way, you know in the past like whatever sexually and so we get that and so we're trying to just help people like look this is going down the You're heading down to destruction. Even your life is is going to be ruinous. So we're warning people but it's it's in a spirit of love and grace and gentleness and it's It's not easy because sometimes, you know, you'll get a lot of pushback. But the second thing is also Christians trying to warn other Christians not to compromise and not to be confused with the word welcoming. or tolerant. Jesus does not commend tolerance. He says, I have this against you. You tolerate the woman Jezebel who's promoting immorality. So we're not supposed to tolerate that. And so those words are just twisted. So what you're saying is you can be welcoming without compromising, right? So you don't need to go on their level but you can still be welcoming. We need to be able to show them there's a better way, there's a biblical way, a godly way, and that does not mean that we're judging you, because again, if you're saved, God replaced the judgment that you deserve, so rightly deserve, with grace where you're not going to be judged. You're going to be based on Christ's blood. So all the evil stuff you've done is going to be wiped away. To me, that's welcoming. But one of the things that I've heard often by a lot of people, in fact, Franklin Graham was saying that at the Baptist Convention, is that our children have to be the salt. They have to be the salt. They have to go to school and they have to be the salt. That's garbage. you can't put our kids through the wolves. I think one of the first things is that the school system is so evil, anybody that still has kids in the school system should rethink whether they love God or love the school system, because I think you need to pull your kids out. Yeah, and we're really running a risk. I mean, there's a certain level, see this is what makes some of these I don't want to say a lot. I'm going to use the language, I guess. It makes these lies so dangerous as they have elements of truth mixed in. So God's people are called to be salt and light, right? And so salt has the idea of adding flavor, has the idea of being a preservative and all that sort of thing. And so we do want to be preserving what is good and right and true about God's teaching. And we want to do it in a way that is flavorful and allows for a flourishing and a and just a wonderful life. But if we're not careful, if we take our children who are not equipped to do that, they're not fully formed yet, you haven't finished training them up on the way they should go, you're putting them at risk so they could be the salt that loses its saltiness. And then it's good for nothing. It gets trampled. It gets trampled. It's worthless. And so if you're not careful, you're going to put your children in a situation where 10, 20 years down the road, they're going to be useless because you've wasted their saltiness. You've got to be really careful about that. But there's this mix, right? So what's the, is it Mary Poppins? Spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down, right? There's some biblical truth in that song. And I think where we get out of balance or we miss the blend is we are so endeavoring to be welcoming. We want to be perceived as loving and accepting and affirming and tolerant that all we do is give them the sugar. It's nothing but sugar. It's saccharine sweet sugar. There's no medicine. And the medicine is, you know what, you need this medicine. And nobody wants to be told that they have a failing, they have a need, right? You need this medicine. Oh, it tastes jucky. I don't want that medicine. You make a grimace and you run away from the medicine. And so I think there's some benefit to those who are lost to couch it in a way that there's some sugar and you emphasize the sweetness of Christ. He's the great physician who has this medicine and you need this medicine from the great physician. And that need is the part that seems bitter. They don't want the bitterness. They don't want to acknowledge that they have failed. But to help them to understand that they have failed. is the medicine, the beginnings of the medicine. And I think we can couch that in terms that feel and sound more sweet. And I think that we can be prone to being guilty of doing just medicine, no sugar. Jesus was the perfect blend of medicine with sugar, right? And He promises abundant life. He promises everything that we need is found in Him. You mentioned a little while back, God's plan for marriage, the family, the beauty of sexuality, all that stuff. So God has this beautiful plan. We're made in the image of God. If we can try to encourage people, look, you're going to miss out. God has this beautiful, wonderful plan. Awesome. And so to try to, in love, help them to see beyond just the fleeting pleasures of sin or whatever. And sometimes people overhear what are intramural conversations. We're giving a charge or calling and holding to account other Christians and say, you cannot compromise. You understand that this sort of behavior is sin. And you can't say it's not. And then the overhearing world, it's not Christian. They're like, oh, you guys are just haters. But we're being very direct and exacting with other believers saying you can't because you know better. Right. You know better. Right. You have partaken of the Holy Spirit. Right. You understand the truth. You've been given the illumination of the Spirit to understand and recognize the truth of His Word, and now you're turning your back on that? You can't do that because you would have been better off never believing at all than to turn your back on the truth. And so we're in a public forum like this, we're also speaking to the fellow Christian, and the non-Christian hears us, and we're not talking, they're not exactly the audience in that moment. Right, so the non-Christian audience, the message for you, if that's you, is God made you in his image. But you need to understand that you are a marred image bearer and you need to be made whole again. And God has done that for you in and through Jesus Christ. If you repent and accept the gift of faith and then live a life of gratitude and humble submission to God, those things are there. But let's start with, you are a beautiful creature of God. Let's start there. I want to remind you of that, but you're not perfect. You're not all that, right? You're not what you think you are. You shouldn't be all puffed up with pride. You should recognize that you have a need for your creator to make you to be perfectly what you're made to be. So there's this idea of both and. Right. And I want to clarify, too. I mean, I've heard even some on the left use that image of God recently. In fact, I think Joe Biden used it in a speech. Transgender people are still also made in the image of God. That's the first half of the verse. The second half of the verse says male and female. God made us in his image male and female. There are still two and you were made in a specific one of the two. But it is still the image of God and you may have a flawed or marred emotional understanding or spiritual feeling about what thing you'd wish to be different about yourself, but you are important the way that God made you and there is a purpose that God has if you're going to be In his kingdom that he has a specific purpose and plan for you to fulfill that in his kingdom But that's the way in the way he made you specifically And and so not not to be in intentionally in sin, and I'm gonna spend this no compromise thing on his head in just a second But but first I would say that was the voice of Daniel Razzie you just heard you also heard I think the voice before that was Greg Windsor's voice and And the voice before that, I think, was Imran Razi's voice. I'm not counting my voice, of course, because I think I was interspersed throughout all of that. You're listening to the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. We don't want to compromise, so we want to make sure that we properly identify sin as sin, and righteousness as righteousness, and we can't compromise on those things. The Church needs to hold to the truth of God. However, this is for you, believer. Not compromising also means the way you live out your life. It's not enough that you get your doctrine right. If you understand that God's word is truth, but you refuse to love your wife, you've compromised. If you will call all the sins of the world the sins of the world, you will accurately identify them, and you will even identify wolves within the church, and you will do a good job of being discerning about those things, but you do not love your neighbor. You don't put in an honest, hard day's work for your employer. You don't do those sorts of things, then you have compromised. It's not just about doctrinal purity. It's about, right? It's about the way you live out your life. It's not just about orthodoxy, but orthopraxy. It's the practice of your life. You have to be perfect. Is that what you're saying, Trudy? We have to be perfect? We are called to be perfect as Christ is perfect. Now we fail, and so we are made fully sufficient in Christ and by the blood of Christ, which just calls us to be reminded of our need for Christ. But we are called to perfection, but we fall short. We need to identify that we are not going to live perfect lives until sin is no more in glory, where there's no more crying, no more sin, no more death, and all those things. But we are called to perfection, but Christians understand we don't live a perfect life, but we are called to it, so we're not off the hook. And so, well, I can't be perfect anyway, so I'll just beat my wife. What? No! I think the Apostle Paul might have said something about that. You raise a really good point, Troy, that, yeah, we have to model this beautiful, glorious A plan, yeah, loving our wives and our families and all the things that go along with that plan because then they can see, the unbelievers can see something. I try not to focus on specific sins unless it's like an issue, but just try to keep bringing it back to, look, here's God's plan. Anytime we go outside of that, your life's gonna be miserable. Those who choose another God multiply their sorrows. Your life's gonna be miserable. But choose God, choose life. That's a really good point. When I've had opportunity to be in a kind of a situation where it's a one-on-one sharing of the gospel, evangelistic kind of a setting or that sort of thing, I haven't thought about it until you just said it, but I can't remember ever focusing on a specific sin. It's more generalized, like you've done some things that even by your own standard, you would admit are wrong, right? What do you do with the guilt and shame and the dishonor that comes with that? What do you do with that? You own it. You just admitted that by your own standard, you've fallen short. So what do you do with that? How can you make it right? And that it's just a generic general thing now with it and the devil has a counterfeit, right? He says you can remove that that that shame by by becoming prideful and arrogant you can remove this fear by By becoming the oppressor instead of the oppressed you can you know? You can remove this guilt by just passing laws saying that it's not wrong, you know in a specific counseling session with a Christian or a Christian sermon, right? I might be specific there and say, when you spend all that time online looking at dirty videos and pictures and things like that, that's a sin. You need to stop. I will call it out, right? The fact that you're disrespectful to your husband, not honoring your husband, not respecting his his authority as spiritual head of the home, that needs to stop. I will point out, you're sassing your mother, that needs to stop. I will call out specific things to a Christian, either in a sermon or a one-on-one situation. But when you're evangelizing to the lost, they need to know about the love of Christ, and part of that is them acknowledging they have a need. So that's why you bring up sin at all. The good news is that there's a solution to the bad news. So you have to identify the bad news some way. But I think that's where we sometimes get a little bit mixed up in the fray. We start wagging our fingers at the lost as though they're believers and holding them to account and a standard that they can't live up to because they don't have the Holy Spirit. So to say, you're an evil sinner. Yeah, well, that's the Westboro Baptist Church model of evangelism. And it doesn't work because it's not biblical. So anyway, we've got like a minute or so. Last word to somebody. Anybody? Well, we have to love people with grace and truth, and I think that we need to be like Jesus in this world. As an elder at my church used to say, you're called to become Jesus' identical twin. Meaning you want to look and act in the way he would be. That's what we're called. That's an impossible task, but that's what we're striving to do. And again, it's not through our own powers, it's through Christ that makes us able to do that. Yeah, and the picture that comes to mind is think about a non-believer that comes to you and you talk to them. They got arrows in them, okay? You can't judge them for having arrows in them. You gotta heal the arrows. You gotta take them out loving kindly. You can't just accept that they have arrows and it's okay, that's part of life. No. God has a plan for each person. And the first thing is, heal them. Identify the errors, identify the evil that's there, and then start getting rid of that. And then move towards, hey, let's reconcile your relationship with Christ, because it's all about relationships. That's Imran Razvi. Before that was Daniel Razvi. Before that was Greg Windsor. I'm Troy Skinner. This has been the Faith Debate on NewsRadio 930 WFMD. Find me online at HouseholdOfFaithInChrist.com. Until next week, 167 and a half hours from right about now, God bless. Thank you. Thank you, General. This is very, very important.