Welcome to the Contending for the Word podcast. A podcast devoted to helping inform, educate, equip, and warn people about false teachers, false movements, and unbiblical philosophies. Now join our host for today's episode and enjoy. Well, when we're first saved, we're often very vulnerable to false teachers that sound Christian, they're holding a Bible, they're quoting scripture, but they're twisting scripture. Some of these false teachers are so over the top that they're easy to spot, but some, like the couple that we're going to be highlighting today, seem to fly under the radar because they can sound solid. Unless you know your Bible, which is why Dave Jenkins and I are so adamant that we have to know our Bible, we must read it daily, study under solid teachers, use a solid Bible study, or commentaries and learn the word and compare everything to scriptures as the Bereans did, as described in Acts 17.11. But being a newly saved person, and I was age 58, maybe 59 at the time, it was in 2017, and I thought I knew the Bible, I thought I was a Christian, but boy, was I wrong. And so, I was experiencing consciously for the first time that I was aware of, spiritual warfare, and it was bad. I mean, it was so bad I couldn't sleep. I was having insomnia, there was just this palpable evil presence, I didn't know what to do. So, what do you do when you have a problem? You go to YouTube, you Google it, you ask people. And I ended up buying this book, you can see the screenshot, this was one of the first These so-called Christian books that I bought after my salvation, praise the Lord for being saved, but gosh, I made some real theological errors in buying this book. Here it is, The Bait of Satan by John Bevere. Several people had recommended it to me. It sure sounded solid. There were some good reviews on Amazon. You can see here I bought it on September 23, 2017, soon after. the, when I read Deuteronomy 18, 10-12 and realized that I was a wretched sinner who was an abomination detestable to God and that I needed Jesus to be my Lord and Savior. And then even as a baby Christian, I opened the book up and look at this, here's a screenshot of the preface of the book. Look what John Bevere says, the book you hold is quite possibly the most important confrontation with truth you'll encounter in your lifetime. And even then, I was a baby Christian, I choked on how prideful that was, but I muddled through the book somehow and found that almost every page John Bevere was boasting about himself with some testimony of how people were saying that John Bevere had saved their life and and basically painting himself as a savior. And the crux of the book, it sounded plausible that if we're offended, it means in Koine Greek, skandalon, which is a trap. And so, his whole book is that if you get offended, you're prideful, which is ironic that he wrote that, and that that makes you more vulnerable to Satan if you're offended. But that doesn't make sense theologically, does it? Because the gospel is offensive. We, being offended by false teaching is actually a sign of conviction of the indwelling Holy Spirit. So, joining me today is our brother in Christ, our good friend, Dave Jenkins, Executive Director of Servants of Grace and his brand new ministry, Contending for the Word, which is a discernment ministry that you'll absolutely want to subscribe to. He's also an author, a blogger, posts on social media. The links to his websites and ministries is in the description below. Thank you, Dave, so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me, Dorrie. It's always a pleasure. Dave, thanks so much for joining me. To take these teachers, John and his wife Lisa, from under the radar and expose them to the light of God's truth. You know, you hit on so many good points there in the introduction. I mean, I was talking to Sarah, you know, before we recorded this, And it just seems like all these people that we talk about would do really well to take a class, not from somebody in their camp, but somebody who really knows, you know, hermeneutics, the art and science of biblical interpretation, because they would avoid even—they would be able to strengthen their positions through correctly handling the Bible. You know, so if they were able to correctly interpret the Bible, you know, we might not even be having a lot of these conversations. That would be great. We're having a lot of these conversations. We're having these conversations, I should say, you know, because they don't correctly handle the Bible. They get it right insofar as it goes, but then they miss the point of the passage. And so, that they would boast, as we'll see, we'll see practical examples of this as we go on. But, you know, before we get too far into this, you know, Michelle, Leslie, our friend, our sister in Christ, She has this to write about Lisa Verveer, who she does not recommend. So that's her words. I'll put this up on a screenshot here on the screen as I'm reading it. Michelle describes Lisa and her husband John, author of many men's ministry books, former associate pastor to Benny Hinn at World Outreach Center, current board member of Joyce Meyer Ministries, don't recommend uh... john she says either uh... head up their own speaking writing and preaching ministry called messenger international lisa associates and partners with many false teachers including jess myer that's more christine cain chris volatile who is a senior associate leader of bethel church co-founder of the battle school of supernatural ministry battle music battle quote-unquote church she describes it Joel and Victoria Osteen, T.D. Jakes, Paula White, and Hillsong. Her extensive ties to Bethel are particularly troubling and undoubtedly influencing her towards the New Apostolic Reformation heresy. This next screenshot is from NAR Connections, and they describe John Bevere in this way. that John Bevere in the 1980s and 90s. He worked under Benny Hinn as a youth pastor and then as Benny Hinn's personal assistant. John is the founder of Messenger International. He's the founder of Messenger Cup. He's the founder of Sons and Daughters. He's an internationally sought-after speaker and best-selling author. John and Lisa are part of a project working closely with Brian Simmons on the past in translations, which they endorse fully. And John states it's one of his favorite translations. John is married to Lisa Bevere. They have four sons, Addison David Bevere, Austin Michael Bevere, Joshua Alexander Bevere, and Arden Christopher Bevere. So I have a screenshot from our friends Famine in the Land, and they are a great ministry out of South Africa. They've got a lot of great content on their website, and you'll be able to see this on the video, but I'm going to read it. The first part of the description is John saying prayer is a dialogue, not a monologue. And then he cites 1 Thessalonians 5.17, pray without ceasing. And then John says, the Lord asked me once, is prayer dialogue or a monologue? He replied, it's a monologue, Lord, a two-way conversation. And then he said, well, if I said to pray without ceasing, then that means I'm willing to communicate with you without ceasing. If we are willing, so is he. And Feynman in the land comments about how that John didn't hear from the Lord. and how scripture instructs us to pray and to know the voice of the Lord as revealed in the scripture and gives advice and counsel to those who are caught up in the new apostolic reformation and much more. And so that is a very good solid post that they had there and you'll be able to see that on the screen. Yeah, those are excellent resources. Michelle Leslie also has links to Biblically Solid Churches on her website, as well as lists of recommended teachers. And then you mentioned NAR Connection, that's Menno Zwier's, and he's spent so much time outlining the different NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, False Teachers on the NAR Connections website. And then Famine in the Land with Rick Becker in South Africa. He has written such detailed discernment blogs about the Bavirs and so I'm glad that you're including these resources, brother. uh... so are we have a our first example will be leading in uh... from that description of john and lisa john is uh... we're going to hear uh... at battle he's gonna praise bill johnson uh... and so here's uh... that clip I've been so refreshed already. I came in yesterday, and I plan on staying until Saturday. Why? Because I just want to keep drinking and drinking and drinking, amen? I honestly could have listened to Pastor Bill speak for hours last night. Does anybody agree with me on that? It was off the chart amazing. There was such insight that the Holy Spirit was just pouring into me through this great man of God, this great father in the church. So, Pastor Bill, thank you. Apostle Bill, thank you so much. Lisa and I, we love you and Benny so very much. We love your whole family. We love Brian and Jen, Eric and Candice. I look at Chris and Kathy Valentin. You know, I'm new to this family. I think I got an inside look of what the secret sauce is of the Bethel family, okay? That's because I just came in and I got it, I got it. You know, Chris came and ministered to our staff just about two months ago. Lisa and I invited him to come and it was amazing, okay? But he doesn't even know this, the statement that he made that so impacted me more than anything else is he said, you know, so often the Protestant church divides off of doctrine. Now I was raised Catholic, and then he brought up the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has far fewer breakups. Why? Because family doesn't break up over doctrine. And I heard that, and that has revolutionized the way I think, the way I am. I think I've come to that point, but he identified it. Wow, where do we even start with that clip, Brother Dave? It's ecumenicalism where he's endorsing the Roman Catholic Church and not calling it out for worshiping a different Jesus, a different gospel, and then he's endorsing just a slew of false teachers there. He mentioned Bill Johnson, who of course you and on my channel too have a lot of materials about the issues with Bill Johnson and Bethel Redding's false gospel, false teachings about name it and claim it, false prophets, calling Bill Johnson an apostle when there are no more apostles since the closed canon, endorsing Chris Vallotton who actually Chris Vallotton to me is more troubling than even Bill Johnson because Chris Vallotton, he just spews out new age material about spirit guides and power animals and bubbles of protection. Just very new age and he doesn't seem to care and he's in charge of teaching these poor vulnerable students at his so-called supernatural school. And then he was endorsing Benny Hinn just then who we know he used to work with. So, the trouble with someone like John Bevere, that he seems kind of normal, he seems kind of grounded, and he quotes scripture, is that flying under the radar like that could open the door to following these teachers he endorses. Don't you agree? Yeah, absolutely. If you even notice, I mean, I might be reading into this, but I've watched this now at least three or four times, and every time it strikes me, he's minimizing doctrine. He's saying that the revolution that he's having is that, you know, one camp or whatever, whoever, whatever camp he's referring to is basically emphasizing doctrine too much and their family, and so what does that mean? You know what I'm saying? To believe that we're the body of Christ is a doctrinal thing. It's a teaching thing that comes from God's Word. And so, like, I don't know what you mean. Like, what do you mean? Tell me what you mean. I don't know. But nobody knows. So it's like, you know, that it seems to be not only that he's undermining the teaching that comes from God's Word, but also, can we know theologies? It's like, So you have this, what we would call a doctrinal minimalism. What doctrinal minimalism does is it basically says, here's a certain core of amount of doctrines that you have to agree with, and it's okay if we disagree on the rest. And maybe the rest doesn't even matter. Now, there are essentials to the Christian faith. We believe in the Trinity, the resurrection, the death of Christ, the inerrancy of scripture, and we could go on and on with that. But that's not the point. What he's doing is he's essentially saying, you know, here's here's where basically I think I land. And I think that that's really dangerous because, like you said, he not only endorses fully endorses Bill Johnson, but he's speaking from the platform about how he acknowledges Bill Johnson as an apostle, which it's it's just absolutely ludicrous. what not only just the doctrinal and theological statements there, but also just that the practical way in which he's advocating that the church would function, we call that ecclesiology, it's deeply troubling and I wonder how many people who are reading John and Lisa Bevere's books understand how deep their connection to deception is and these false teachers. And it includes the passion so-called translation that you and I have covered, in fact we'll put a link in the description below to our video breaking down why the passion is not something that anyone should read and this is supposedly John Bevere's favorite translation, it's not even a translation, it's an opinion and it's not even a biblical opinion. It's something, it's like reading a comic book versus reading scholarly work. So, I think for, only God knows their motives, but I would say that for a lot of people, they would find the passion seems to be easier to read and seems to be easier to understand than say, you know, KJV Bible. And the reason it seems easier is because it's a person's opinion and that person's opinion is not biblical. In fact, some of it is antithetical to the Bible. But anyway, we'll put a link in the description below of the points of why the passion is something that no professing Christian should have anything to do with. And that's the so-called Bible that they read from the pulpit at Bethel Redding. And just really, I'll just be real brief on this, you know, what Brian Simmons did is he has no training in the biblical languages, and instead he said that the Holy Spirit taught him the languages, which he demonstrates zero understanding of. But forget that point. Now compare that with the ESV, where you have the best commentators on the Bible and theologians and people who have real degrees from real institutions that have learned Greek and Hebrew, and you can see the difference between that and the passion translation. Previously, Brian had no experience with new tribes, and then suddenly now he says that the Lord taught him and gave him this translation, commissioned him to have this translation. And it's just ridiculous, because that's what they... And he did it by himself, too. Usually with Bibles, there's a committee. On our next clip that we're going to talk about, we're going to spend quite a bit of time on this one. John and Lisa are on their podcast talking about, they're going to talk about legal rights, they're going to talk about extra biblical revelation, and more. I want you, when you listen to this, I want you to pay attention to the way in which they're talking about a Christian. And when we come back here after this clip, we're gonna dive into this quite a bit. And I also want you to notice the way in which John engages the scriptures here in this clip. you have a protection when you're in obedience, but when you deny God's word or his provision for protection in your life and you partner with things that open the door to demonic things, He takes legal action. Pete Well, that's what Paul was talking about with the Corinthian church. He was saying, lest Satan get advantage of us, we're not ignorant of his devices. Do you know what he was talking about specifically there? Unforgiveness. So, Paul was telling them, hey, when you refuse to forgive, because Jesus said, forgive us as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. That's not a suggestion. That's the Lord's prayer. Jesus said, if you don't forgive, your heavenly Father will not forgive you. Remember, he said that, okay, in Mark 11? All right. So, when we refuse to forgive, we give foothold to the enemy. I will never forget, ever will I ever forget this. There was a, I was at CBN years ago with Pat Robinson, Terry Musen, and they have a chaplain there or a guy who runs like the chapel for the whole thing. He's kind of like the pastor of the staff back in those days and he shared that there was a person who had come in that they were ministering to and they just could not get this person free. The person wanted to be free. The person was a baby baby Christian, wanted to get free, said please can you have your counselors pray for me and he said we were baffled until the Holy Spirit gave us a vision and we saw a that every time we prayed for him, this person was in a wind tunnel, right? And, or excuse me, not this person, we saw a demonic spirit, we saw like a wind tunnel and a demonic spirit had a hold on a bar and when we prayed, it was like a massive wind of the Holy Spirit went through and the demon just hung on. Jennifer But it had a hold. Pete It just hung on, yeah. Jennifer How interesting. Pete And the Holy Spirit revealed to them he's holding on forgiveness. So, he asked him and he said what he started saying, it was something, I think it was his father or something like that. And they led him in a prayer to forgive. As soon as he forgave, they had another vision and they saw the wind blow and they saw that demon just gone like that. So, it had legal access, a legal hold because of the unforgiveness. How about Ephesians? Paul says, don't let the sun go down in your wrath, right? lest we give Satan a foothold." That's the exact translation in the NLT. A foothold. Maura And can I just say, I remember when we were early married, I would, if I didn't forgive you before we went to sleep at night, it was like I dreamed all night and got madder and madder and madder. In the morning, I'd turn to John and be like, you know what you did in my dreams. Pete You were so upset at me. Maura It wasn't even a real thing, but because I had slept with that unforgiveness and that bitterness. It had taken over my mindset, had robbed me of my rest, and we actually are not created for that. You know, so Lisa, the Bible says the whole world, literally the whole world, is under the sway or the influence of the evil one. I mean, that's crazy. So when you get born again, all of a sudden, you are free. Because you're part of a kingdom. Yep, you're part of the kingdom of God, you're technically free, but You have to drive out these enemies, just like when God said, hey, that land is yours, Israel, but you got to drive out all these enemies. You know, when I have watched this clip a number of times, in fact, I was just curious when we were during when you and I were starting to work on this, this episode. I was curious if John and Lisa supported this legal rights idea, which you heard over and over again when they're talking about this whole idea of you give the devil a foothold or you have to drive out demons as a Christian, which, by the way, if you think of it, think of it in this way. As Christians, we believe, following Paul's teaching in 1 Timothy 1, that there's only one mediator between God and man. But what teachers like this do is make themselves to be a mediator between God and man. And so they're telling you that you have to either go to them for ongoing deliverance, or as a Christian, you can be possessed by a demon. Not harassed or oppressed, possessed by a demon. And you give Satan legal rights and access by you not forgiving. And he said that over and over and over again. In fact, he appealed to his they appeal to their experience, that vision, right, he said that he had, and that not being able to. So even the idea, he didn't even cite a scripture there, he appealed to extra-biblical revelation. So then he just set himself up, if you think about it, like a Catholic at a confessional booth, he set himself up as a mediator between between the people that he's talking to and God. That is, whoa, that's super bad. I mean, that's just putting it mildly. That's heresy. He's promoting another gospel. And just the whole example, a personal example. It sounds so good, right? They get a lot right. But if we look at the passages he cites, he mentions a passage in 2 Corinthians. The passage he actually cites is 2 Corinthians 2, 10-11, specifically verse 11, but I'm quoting verse 10. He says, Paul says in 2 Corinthians 2, 10-11, "...anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven If I have forgiven anything has been for your sake in the presence of Christ, so that we would not be outwitted by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his design." Now, the context of this passage that starts at verse 5 runs to verse 11 of 2 Corinthians 2. Paul is giving an application of his example to the Corinthians. This section is pointing out that the majority of the Corinthians had expressed their repentance by punishing the leader of the rebellion against Paul, and now Paul is calling the people at Corinth to follow his example and extending mercy to the offender, lest Satan have his way once again in the church. And in verse 10 of 2 Corinthians 2, Paul is, with the word forgive, is telling the Corinthians they are to forgive because they have been forgiven of their sins, which is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 6, 14 through 15. and in Matthew 18.35 and Colossians 3.13. And so, if that's not enough, if that doesn't counter that view that John established on that, there's actually more, because verse 11, Paul is talking about the designs of Satan are to destroy the mutual forgiveness, love, and unity that is to characterize God's people as those who have been reconciled to God through Christ, as Paul teaches in 2 Corinthians 5.16-16. So in this way, Satan aims to dishonor God's own glory revealed in Jesus as the Son of God. And yet, what John does is he uses that passage to suggest that Paul is meaning that Christians can give Satan a legal foothold or legal rights to come into their life and possess them, not harass them, not oppress them, possess them, indwell them, which is a... By the way, I'm just going to pause here. That is, as you've no doubt heard me say many times now, that is a literal impossibility. we have been legally declared not guilty, we have been sealed by the Spirit, and indwelt by the Spirit. So tell me, is that a possibility for any Christian to be possessed by a demon? The answer is no. So just right on its face, and you go through all these other passages that he mentions, which, you know, I'll go through some of them, You know, like Matthew 6, 12, and 14, that's about our fellowship with God being disrupted, not giving Satan legal access. Another one that he mentions in Mark, that he doesn't actually give the verse, but he mentions Mark 11, 24 through 25, where I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it and it'll be yours. And whenever you stand praying, forgive. If you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who's in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." So of course, we know that in the Word of Faith it's all about, you know, we just ask God and we get it, but there's actually a motive, a right motive that Jesus is talking about here, a humble heart that trusts God and is confident that God will do exactly what he says he will do. Not that they'll get everything that they ask for when they ask it or something like that. That's not what Jesus is talking about there. That's not what the apostles talk about. And again, he uses this appeal to experience, to extra-biblical revelation. It makes it about me. I mentioned the fact of the mediator. But also, Don mentioned this recently in us talking about deliverance. and it's and it's really interesting you will never see anybody that proposes propounds or exposes this particular viewpoint you will never see them talk about sanctification why because if you're why go past the point of your fellowship being broken and demons needing to be driven out as john said he uses ephesians 4 26 be angry and don't sin don't let your don't let the sun go down on your anger that's there's a difference between being righteously angry, like sex trafficking or abortion or something like that. But that's not what Paul's saying. He's talking about something else. He's giving practical examples in this Ephesians 5, 25-32, about how church members can build up one another in his body. because of their identity in Christ. And then how to deal with our anger, not letting it, dealing with it and keeping short accounts and repenting of our sin, not giving Satan a literal foothold into our life. Again, that's not what Paul means. That's not what Jesus taught. And not only that, but it's a theological impossibility. There's nothing orthodox about that view. The church has never taught that view. thank you for exegeting those verses that get twisted by false teachers like the Bavirs, who in this clip we just showed, it can be so subtle and it can sound so feasible and you can say, oh yeah, I know that verse, I know that verse, and Jesus did say that. And it's very similar to how the devil in the garden, Genesis 3, and then in Matthew 4 in the temptation, the devil does know scripture, but he will manipulate it to control people, in this case to drive people to deliverance ministries, which as we have talked about and we've got lots of videos about this, that's not how it works. You were very clear that when we're indwelled by the Holy Spirit, sealed as a born-again Christian, that the demons cannot possess us. They certainly, as Ephesians 6 warns, can oppress us. We're promised spiritual warfare. But they're talking about getting freedom for someone, which they mean exercising, depossessing them. Dave, I don't know what's in the water in Tennessee, but here we've got the Bevers from Franklin. I lived in Tennessee for, I guess, two and a half years in the 90s, and they live in Franklin, which is like the Beverly Hills. of Tennessee. It's the rich people's side. And then there's Steve Berger, who I've got a video on. Greg Locke, who we did a video on from Tennessee. Why are there so many false teachers pushing deliverance in Tennessee. I was a psychotherapist there and a lot of the patients that came to the hospital that I was the director of in Nashville were satanic abuse survivors and incest survivors and they had very deeply troubling psychological issues. So I don't know if that's a correlation, but it is interesting that they're also from Tennessee, isn't it? Yeah, that is interesting. You also have the Southern Baptist Convention is right there in Nashville, and a huge part of it, the Bible Belt. And I'm not equating a one-to-one there, just to be clear for everyone. I'm just saying there's a church on every—I've never actually been there, but I know that there's a church on every corner in the South, okay? So, you know, there's so many churches. And the question is, when you hear these things, it's not only that they're reading the Bible. I think when people see, oh, he's reading the Bible. So guess what? He must be getting it right. Great. Yes. Everybody should read the Bible. Everybody should study the Bible. But it's not only a matter of if you're reading it and studying the Bible, are you correctly interpreting the Bible? Because as far as it goes, It sounds good, right? I mean he's quoting scripture. So you hear that and you think this sounds appealing this sounds good But then you look at what is paul actually saying? What is jesus actually saying like we like I did just briefly a minute ago And I could have gone much further than I did. But the point is is they say enough that sounds good they they even quote like jesus if you don't forgive you won't be forgiven, but Jesus there in Matthew, in the Lord's Prayer, at the end of the Lord's Prayer, isn't talking about giving Satan illegal access or rights or our security being disrupted or anything like that. He's talking about if we don't forgive, our fellowship with God is going to be hindered, hindered or disrupted. That's why we have to continue to repent of our sin, as 1 John 1-9 says, because if we don't, John says in 1 John 1.7, if we say we don't have sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. The truth is in the Word. The truth that he's pointing to is Jesus Christ in His incarnation, that He came under the sentence of death to pay the penalty for our sin. By the way, 1 John was written to deal with those who denied that truth. over and against people who thought that they had a superior knowledge of God. And that's kind of an important thing, especially in this discussion, because these people do claim to have additional revelation outside of the Bible. they claim to have something hidden that we don't understand and that's exactly what john is talking about you know in first john and also paul writes about in in colossians so you know we we gotta be we gotta be alert that's why i said when we listen to this clip we watch this clip you need to pay attention to the things that he's saying And as you do start to pay attention to the words that are coming out of his mouth, they're all bad. There's not a thing in what he's saying and what either one of them discuss that's helpful. that's truthful, that's truly edifying. You know, Ephesians 4.15, we're supposed to speak the truth in love, it's a command. Ephesians 4.29 tells us that we're to speak words that build up. There's nothing that builds up there. So it's literally worthless talk, what they're offering is worthless talk. And you should pay attention to that. The way that people handle the Bible matters because, as I've said before, it reveals what they think about the Bible. And what they think about the Bible is they don't even teach the Bible. So, yeah, it's very troubling when they talk about the legal rights because this is where, and you and I have talked about this before, that there's videos actually on YouTube and articles that for people like me who've come out of deception, come out of the new age, to immediately burn or destroy all your new age and occult paraphernalia, or it gives the demons legal rights to possess or oppress you. And so, there's that truth mixed with lies that the devil always does, because Acts 19 shows that when people were convicted and converted, that they burned at great financial cost. They're sorcery paraphernalia. And there is, a lot of the Bibles commands us to have nothing to do with idolatry, nothing to do with idols, to smash our idols. So, that's biblical, to get rid of your idols. But the reason they're giving is what's unbiblical, that it gives the devil legal rights. There does seem to be, if you've got a lot of New Age things sitting around, that you might have more oppression, but that's because the Bible says if you sin, if you're unrepentantly sinning, that one of the consequences of that sin is that you would have the spiritual warfare, not because you've given the devil legal rights. Yeah, that's good. And we can go back to 1 John. John gives litmus tests after litmus tests for those who say they truly love God. They'll make loving God and loving others, as Jesus said in the Great Commandment, a habitual pattern of their life over and against those. to make a practice of sinning. They show that they profess one thing, meaning that they talk a good game, but then where's the action? And John's concerned that not only will we profess the truth, but that we'll walk it out in daily life. And if we look at, you know, Paul's teaching in Philippians 4 and other places like Colossians 3. He's very concerned not just that we know the truth, but that as he says in Philippians 4, that we practice the truth, or James says, be doers of the word. And this is why we don't just have a... This is what's so concerning to me, and I'm sure you too, Doreen, about what John said in the first clip, is he's saying it doesn't really matter what we believe or anything like that, but Paul would counter, no look, you got to believe the right things because those things are going to impact what you do and the fact that it's revolutionized his ministry is deeply concerning to say the least. Hmm, very deep. Yeah, and especially with the Bavarians quoting Ephesians 4, 26 and 27 about don't let the sun go down on your anger lest you give the devil a foothold. In Ephesians, it talks about that unity cannot happen with false teachings. So, in the very book they're quoting, it disputes what they're teaching. It's really good. And all of that's because we've been united to Christ by faith in His name, you know? That dividing wall, Paul says in Ephesians 2, that separated us from God. Now, because of Christ, we're reconciled to God and we can dwell in unity. Think about that. I mean, where's that? Not to mention, these are imperatives that are, meaning things that we're to do because of who we belong to. Who we belong to is Jesus. and Jesus empowers us through the Holy Spirit to obey him, as Jesus himself says in John 14, 15, if you love me, obey my commandments. And so, yeah, and he does through the Holy Spirit, so. And the Bevers, I mean, we're just scratching the surface of their false teaching. As we mentioned earlier, Famine in the Land, and we'll have their website link below, has lots of screenshots of John Bevers' posts, and then exegetes, the relevant scripture and explains why it's unbiblical. But the category that John tends to teach is name it and claim it. He's also one like Bill Johnson that says that God always decrees your health. and that if you just get your mindset right, and that's, I grew up Christian science, it was the same false teaching, just it's up to you, you've got to have enough faith, you've got to have the right mindset, then you're guaranteed that God will heal you. And that sets people up to get their faith shipwrecked because it's not always God's will. We see this in 2 Corinthians 1 to alleviate suffering. Suffering actually is part of sanctification. And I think we're going to see that in the next clip, where we're going to see Lisa Bevere. This content comes from Joyce Meyer's Love Life Conference in 2014, where Lisa Bevere is speaking. You know what? When my boys were little, I didn't give them options. Every single night before I put them to bed, I lined them up, and I said, boys, I'm really sorry. I should probably do this in the morning, but I am not a morning person, so you're going to have to sleep in your armor. I would line them up, and I would say, you are for signs and wonders and miracles. You are not for death and destruction. You are disciples taught of the Lord, and great is your peace and undisturbed composure. They were like, What's composure? I was like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You'll just need it. You'll just need it. So I'm going to just throw it into your future. It'll just be waiting for you when you need it. Then I'd be like, OK, now we're just going to put our armor on. And they'd be like, oh my gosh, this is so exhausting. Why can't we just put our pajamas on like normal children? I'm like, because you are not normal children. You are sons of the most high God. And you will not be positioned for normal because normal has not served the church well. Your children will inherit one of two things, either God's promises or your fears. So you better figure out what you are going to speak over your children. Let's frame a world large enough for them to be heroes in. My goodness, the histrionics are just too dramatic for me. Girls with swords? It's promoting feminism, first of all, that title, which it's a pseudo-Christianity of women. And there's men in the audience, as there always is at Joyce Meyer conferences, and we women are not to be having authority over men. I know some people will go, well, you're you're on YouTube, aren't you having authority? No, this is not a pulpit. I'm not serving communion. I'm not trying to be a pastor. But Lisa Bevere frequently gives Sunday sermons at churches to men in the audience. And so, she is not a pastor. She can't be a pastor. The Holy Spirit will not indwell a sermon of a woman who's trying to give a sermon. so it's just it's so wrong on many levels but her poor boys to yell at them like that and then when she says your future self will understand composure that's straight out occultic new age witchcraft your future self that's not biblical yeah i was thinking and and you might have to correct me on this if i'm wrong please do but it seems like she's decreeing and declaring She's saying, this is what your future is. And so line you up now. There's nothing wrong with a parent speaking well to their child and raising them up in the truth. Just to clarify, you might see that. Well, that's what she's doing. But she's doing something actually opposite of that. She's decreeing that this is your future. And just believe it, even if you don't realize it now, that's that's decreeing and declaring. Yeah, and it's great to teach your kids about the armor of God because I had spiritual warfare as a child, didn't understand it till later, and it would have been so nice to have been equipped biblically with learning about calling on Jesus, praying the Lord's Prayer, armor of God, resist the devil and he will flee, what the Bible equips us with for spiritual warfare. Kids need that. I think kids are vulnerable. to the devil oppressing them. So, that part's good. It's just the way she's doing this, the yelling and the drama of it. And again, only God knows her heart, but it's sure smacks of pridefulness that, look at what a superior mother I am to do this. The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. David And remember where she's at. She's at a Joyce Meyer conference. She's speaking at a Joyce Meyer conference. Yeah, and we have a video that about, and this was the video that of course, your book, The Word Matters, really gives examples of why we have to be careful and compare everything to God's word. Because Joyce Meyer is like the Bevers in that she seems to be quoting the Bible, but then she'll twist it and sugarcoat it and make it all about us. Yeah, that's why we've been talking over the last six months now about the fact that it's not just enough to have the right principle. And you hear that with the Bevers in their conversation with one another. You hear the principle. Well, if I don't forgive, I won't be forgiven. But then they'd stop. They don't stop there and say, so repent. They instead say something else. They say you're going to give Satan legal rights. Notice that. Notice when the teacher says that, because what they're doing is they're cutting you off from the gospel itself. They're cutting you off, when these teachers do this, from the truth. And it sounds good. They're taking you 85% of the way, and then the rest of the 15% they're taking away from the source. They're taking away from the only mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ, who can forgive you of your sin and cleanse you and make you new. This is what we need. We don't need to be pointed to ourselves This is why people wallow in despair and guilt and condemnation whether by so many people struggle with assurance Because they're under this kind of teaching and what it does is it leads to despair at least a depression at least a discouragement it leads to a guilty conscience instead of being having a conscience that is You know forgiven and that's cleansed by the blood of Christ This is the tragedy of what these teachers are offering and why we need to mark and avoid this kind of teaching. It's another, like you mentioned earlier, it's another gospel. It's another gospel, but it's like the Catholic in the confessional booth. They think, if I confess my sins and say a thousand Hail Marys, I'm going to be forgiven by God. It's the same kind of idea. If I go to this teacher and hear what they have to say and follow their instruction and do what they say, I'm going to be delivered of my demons. And I'm telling you, since I've been speaking out on this, I hear so many, so much of this kind of thing from people. And what you need, if that's you, I just want to speak directly to you right now. You do not need to go to anybody to be delivered or set free. You need to go to the mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ, and be, as Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5, be reconciled to God. By the way, we're commanded as Christians to call other people to be reconciled to God. That's what he's teaching in 2 Corinthians 5. Some people might have maybe a problem with that, but you look at the example of Charles Spurgeon. He called people to repent and believe in Jesus. and God used him on both sides of the Atlantic in a powerful way and all around the world. You know, we gotta not be afraid in the Reformed community to call people to repent and believe and put their hope and trust in Christ. We have, the modern missionary movement was all started under this guise, this guise of trusting the sovereignty of God, and God, the faithful people, men and women preaching the gospel, and trusting the Spirit to open eyes and to call people to repentance and faith in His name, to bring them to repentance and faith. Our job is only to be faithful to the Bible. The Spirit's job, He opens eyes, He opens ears, He leads them through the door by irresistibly drawing them to salvation. So our job is to be faithful to the Word and be faithful to declare the gospel. The Spirit's job, He uses that faithful ministry to open eyes and to open ears. And so that's why, you know, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ, as Paul says in Romans 10, 17. So that's what we need to do. We need to be faithful to the Bible, faithful to call people to repent and believe, and maybe that's you. You! Jesus came and looked for his very first sermon. He came, opened that scroll from Isaiah 61, and he said that he came to bring freedom for the captives. Isn't that amazing? What these teachers are offering you is slavery. What the Lord Jesus offers you is freedom, salvation, hope. Not to go to some other person, go to the person, the God-man, who alone can pardon you of your sins. And so I would just invite you, I would plead with you to go to the God-man, Jesus. He came under the sentence of death for you. He paid that penalty on the cross for you. He was buried for you. He rose again for you. He ascended on the third day for you. He is coming back for you. You're going to give an answer to the Lord Jesus. So the question is, are you going to be giving an answer for what you did with what he gave you, or are you going to be giving an answer for refusing to repent and believe? And if you refuse to repent and believe, you're going to go to hell, a place of unrelenting, unending punishment. If you repent and believe, you go to be with the Lord forever. And now, today, this moment, this very hour, if you repent and believe, you can grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. You can flee from false teachers like John and Lisa Bevere and Bill Johnson and the whole nine yards and get in a solid Bible-believing church. This is why we're doing these things. I hear from so many people when we do these episodes. Thank you for saying what you did. Thank you for saying what you did. And the reason this is one of the reasons I keep doing it, because so many people keep saying thank you, thank you, thank you. It's not about the thank you. It's not about the pat on the back. It's about the fact that so many of you are realizing that these people are leading you away from the Bible that you just want to read, that you just want to know the God who's in the Word. And that's all that I want, and that's all Doreen wants, is for you to know the God who has revealed Himself in the Word. And to know Him rightly, you must know His Word rightly. And to do that, you must know the Son who has revealed Himself in the pages of the Word. Amen. Yeah. One of the big differences between a biblical teacher and a false teacher like the Bavarians is who do they give glory to? And the Bible tells us in all things, with our body and all things we do to give glory all glory to God, all glory to God. But false teachers give glory to themselves. And you mentioned repentance, which is essential, and you never hear them talk about repentance. Probably, again, only God knows their heart, but probably because they don't consider it important, they may not be repentant themselves. But if you, one of the reasons that these false teachers are so popular is because they create that illusion by glorifying themselves, like John Bevere's book. It's all how wonderful he is, that clip from Lisa Bevere. Look at my parenting that I do. Be like me. And they're not imitating Christ, they are putting themselves on a pedestal like Nebuchadnezzar And so, then the unsuspecting person says, oh, I have to follow this person. And that person becomes an idol, that false teacher seems to have the answers. And that false teacher does not point them to repentance, to surrender to Jesus, to humility, because they're modeling the opposite of humility. All the godly characteristics, they're not pointing them in that direction. Suffering, The value of suffering, they teach the opposite, that you shouldn't have any suffering, or if you do, it's saying you're a failure, because you fill in the blank, didn't have enough faith, or you didn't tithe enough, or you had negative thoughts. So they teach the opposite of what the Bible teaches and they paint themselves as the savior, the idol. Be careful, you guys. Just because someone has a Bible and quotes scripture does not mean they're a Christian teacher. It's really important that you educate yourself by reading the Bible. It is the guardrails against false teachings. Amen. Well said. This has, I think, been really good and helpful for people. And if you're a Christian, I just want to urge you, being informed is good. Being educated is good. But now that you know these things, you must take it out, and you must contend for the faith. And so we want to encourage you to subscribe to Doreen's channel. to subscribe to Servants of Grace for great resources. We're also excited about Contend for the Word Ministries, and excited about what the Lord will do. Doreen is going to be a part of that, and we have many more trustworthy teachers to help you with these things. So, exciting days ahead. Real exciting. Very excited for your new ministry, brother. Thank you. Thank you for being a part. Thank you for listening to this episode of Contending for the Word. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show and rate us wherever you listen to podcasts. Be sure to also like, subscribe, and follow Servants of Grace on Facebook, Instagram, or X. We appreciate your support.