Knowing the Truth with Pastor Kevin Bowling is a live call-in radio program providing doctrinal dialogue, cultural commentary, and insightful interviews with some of today's foremost Christian authors and leaders. Knowing the Truth is the outreach ministry of the Mountain Bridge Bible Fellowship located on Highway 25 in Traveler's Rest. The goal of the church and the radio program is to seek the glory of God in the salvation of sinners and the sanctification of the saints. by the Ministry of the Word. For more information, go to www.knowingthetruth.org. Here with today's edition of Knowing the Truth is Pastor Kevin Bowling. Hey, welcome into this edition of the Knowing the Truth radio broadcast. This is Pastor Kevin Bolling. So glad that you joined us on the broadcast today. Today is our Worldview Wednesday edition of the Knowing the Truth radio broadcast. And so, as is our habit, we go and talk to somebody from World Magazine, www.worldmag.com. You can go out there in order to check out all of the articles. that we talk about on the program today. In fact, we're going to talk about one that is not really released out there yet. It will be, I think, shortly, but I'm going to talk about an issue that is facing an American couple in Qatar. There is this threat of imprisonment. In fact, I think that they've actually been in prison for a short period of time. thus far, but it's over the idea of a tragedy that happened with this American family where one of their children died, and then the authorities there in Qatar accused them of actually starving the child to death. And so now they're really facing some real difficulties there in Qatar. And we want to talk with Jamie Dean, the news editor for World Magazine, about that unfolding story. Second on the program today, we're going to be joined by Jerome Corsi at the second half of the program today. A lot of folks here in the upstate of South Carolina are aware of the fact that yesterday a group of World War II veterans left from the GSP, the Greenville-Spartanburg Airport, in order to head to Washington, D.C. to go to the World War II Memorial there in D.C. They were then flown back to Greenville last night, about 8 o'clock I think they arrived at GSP, and then a number of people from the upstate of South Carolina were there to greet them when they got off the plane and so forth. It's a big event. here in Greenville. It's called the Honor Flight. Well, I wanted to do a broadcast that would speak to the idea of veterans. Veterans Day is coming up in November, on November 11th. And I wanted to just get out in front of that a little bit to talk about our veterans and the honor that they deserve, and specifically those that had served in World War II. So we're going to do that in the second half of the program. with Jerome Corsi. He has written a book about the Battle of Bastogne. It was a very important battle in World War II, and he's going to tell us about that and his book that he's written about that subject. He's a New York Times bestselling author. He'll be joining us on the second half of the program today. First up, Jamie Dean from World Magazine. Jamie, welcome back to the program today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Well, Jamie, let's talk a little bit about this story from Qatar. It's very scary for this American couple and what they're facing there. If you would give our listening audience a little bit of background about what has taken place thus far and what this couple is facing. Sure. This is an American couple from California. Their names are Matthew and Grace Hong. They're a Christian couple as well. And they are the adoptive parents of three children from Africa. And in 2012, Matthew accepted an assignment to move to Qatar with his family for a time to work on engineering projects. Qatar is hosting the World Cup in 2022, I believe. And Matthew was working on some engineering projects there. And they thought it would be an adventure for their family. They would go and experience this other culture. But it really turned into quite a nightmare. Tragically, their eight-year-old daughter, Gloria, died unexpectedly in January of 2013. It's unclear why she died. She did suffer from an eating disorder that's not uncommon to some children who have grown up in impoverished countries. She lived in Ghana for the first four years of her life. It's unclear why she died, but the real tragedy also unfolded as Qatari officials blamed Matthew and Grace. They immediately suspected them of having murdered their daughter. Specifically, they said that they tried to starve their daughter. And what was really galling about it was that they offered this very bizarre explanation, a very bizarre motive for why this adoptive couple would do this. They basically said that they were trying to starve Gloria so that they could harvest and sell her organs. It gets more and more bizarre, and one of the strangest things is that at the root of all of this, the Qatari officials basically say, why would an American couple adopt an undesirable child? I mean, it's just so tragic. But this culture doesn't really have a concept of adoption. Adoption is very rare. Biracial families are very, very rare. And so they basically said, why would this couple want to adopt this undesirable child? Islam doesn't look well on adoption. They must have had an ill motive, and so therefore we think that they murdered her. So what happened over the next month was just kind of a kangaroo court. I mean, it was really just... no due process going on for this couple. They remained in jail for 11 months from January of 2013 until November of last year. Their children were taken away from them. Eventually they were returned to Grace's parents in Washington state, but the couple remained in jail for 11 months. They were released on bail last November. And in March, there was a hearing to basically sentence them. The judge didn't really say what they were guilty of. He just sentenced them to three years in prison. They later found out that the charge had been reduced from murder to child endangerment, but still three years in prison. And so they are appealing that verdict, and they would like to be able to leave the country. They've asked for the travel ban that they face to be lifted. The Qatari government has refused to do that. And so they are still stuck in Qatar, separated from their children. And on November 30th, there will be a hearing to rule on their appeal of their conviction. So just really a heartbreaking story that they lost their daughter and then were accused of murdering her under such strange circumstances in such a contorted view of what adoption really is. Yeah, and I understand that the prosecutors in that November 30th hearing that's coming up, that the prosecutors are actually pressuring the judge to impose a harsher They don't feel that just three years for what they're being accused from on the Qatar side of things, that that is long enough. And so, I mean, it could go that they could actually not even have to just submit to the three years of incarceration, but if they have their way, it could even be more than that, right? That's right. And the Qatari prosecutors have said that they may try to add new charges. I mean, they've alleged that this couple bought their children on some kind of black market. Now, the couple offered and showed all their adoption papers from a reputable agency in the U.S. They showed all the visas, all the appropriate paperwork. So, I mean, it's just bizarre that they would posit these charges that they somehow bought these children. But they may try to bring these charges, which would increase the time. And they may ask for a tougher sentence. I mean, it really is very much a nightmare for this couple. You know, I would think that this has really put a bit of a strain on what seemed to be a pretty good political relationship. I think we actually refer to Qatar as being an ally, and I remember their name being mentioned most recently where we were talking about with ISIS and being able to fly out of certain areas. I think there was also Some talk about them being one of the intermediaries between trying to release some hostages and so forth. So we kind of view them as an ally, right? Yes. I mean, the largest American airbase in the Middle East is sitting in Qatar. So it is sort of a difficult situation, I think, for U.S. officials who are trying to figure out how to pressure them. to let go this American couple and yet maintain this relationship. I mean, it's really sad that it has to come down to that, but there is definitely a lot of political and strategic implications to this. And I think U.S. officials are trying to weigh through all of that. Has the president or anybody, any official, U.S. official mentioned this couple and their situation publicly? Not much. The U.S. State Department issued a couple of statements The first one was seven months after this couple had already been in jail, in prison. I shouldn't say jail, it's definitely a Qatari prison that they were in, very difficult circumstances. The U.S. State Department called for the Qatari government to lift their travel ban in July of last year, and then in October, right before its latest hearing, they called again for them to lift the travel ban and to bring the case to a just conclusion. They haven't exactly said let my people go, but they have kind of made it known that they think that things aren't being handled well. So those are the only two statements directly, publicly, from the State Department. They say they've been talking with them behind the scenes, but those are the only public statements. Interestingly, Matthew Hong called on President Obama to please call Qatari officials and explain why Americans adopt children in need. Something that simple, just to clear up these motives. It's unclear whether that's happened, but the president has not publicly mentioned the harms. Yeah, that's strange that they find it so odd that Americans would be interested in adopting children. Of course, there's quite a movement right now, especially among evangelicals, to really embrace adoption, physical adoption, based upon the teachings of the Scripture about spiritual adoption, that we've been adopted in Christ and our relationship before God and all the privileges and benefits of that relationship are bestowed upon us because of our adoption. And they're making a strong tie together with the theological teaching of adoption as to why we should then be involved in physical adoption. And that message has resonated quite a bit. And not only that, but a lot of folks have even more specifically adopted special needs children as a result of that. So it's not a strange thing at all, and certainly shouldn't be a strange thing among Christians. Have the hunks received any legal assistance, and specifically, I know they're in Qatar, so are they limited to just legal assistance there, or do they have legal assistance from folks back here in the States as well? They do have legal assistance from folks here in the States. There's a group called the David House Agency. It's based in California, and they specifically work to help Americans who are in situations like the Hongs of various kinds and places all over the world. So they've been very involved in their case. In fact, the president of that group was in Qatar in October for their latest hearing and has been working to get them good counsel. in Qatar. Also, the California Innocence Project, which is a group that takes on really egregiously when someone has been accused of something and there's just absolutely very little evidence for it. The California Innocence Project will often take on those cases, and you can imagine they have cases a mile long. People that want to have their cases taken out, but they jump on this very quickly. I mean, this to them was so clearly out of bounds of any due process or any evidence. I mean, the prosecutors have not offered any physical evidence for their claims. So the California Innocence Project is also offering some help with that as well. But it's been a huge strain on the Hongs. I mean, they've sold their home in California to be able to help pay for some of their legal assistance. They're separated from their children. They're homeschooling them via Skype five hours a day. You know, they're flipped in time. So I'm imagining they're doing that at night when their children are awake. And just, I mean, just such a trauma and a heartache for this family. Exactly. This situation, I think, just highlights, you know, when you go abroad now, it just seems to, something like this seems like it could happen. It's a little bit scary to think when you go abroad that, you know, suddenly you could be put in this type of situation. I know that a lot of times it's easy to critique the State Department and say, you know, well, they need to be doing something about this. And we hope that they are doing something about it behind the scenes. But it just seems that it takes an awful long time, seven months, for them to you know, to publicly get involved in this, it just seems like we should have more influence and more sway in these situations where they could just say, you know, this is an egregious overreach by your prosecution there of these individuals, and we want something done about it. Otherwise, there's going to be ramification. It just doesn't seem like we have very much leverage anymore to deal with these cases. Do you agree? I do. I mean, especially in a case just so outrageous. I mean, it's just so absurd. The arguments that they've made, no evidence. I mean, this isn't like a case where there's really some doubt in anybody's mind that I've found about this couple. So, I mean, one would think you could just kind of say the truth in this situation and find a way to do that publicly and put some pressure there. And perhaps, I don't know, we'll see if more pressure is exerted in the coming days, but I think it is a time to speak publicly on behalf of of, again, Americans like the Hongs, Americans like Saeed Abedini, who we hear very little about from the State Department. These folks who have been in prison in places all over the world, it's just a harrowing thing. And I think you're right about traveling to different parts of the world. It makes me think of our need to be praying, especially for missionaries all over the world. You go to these places to bring the Gospel, and hopefully won't face situations like this. They are more rare than they're common, that's for sure. But still, in these cultures that are more hypothetical to the Gospel, and don't understand fatherly adoption, these kinds of concepts, all of these things, really do need to pray for these folks. That's horrible. We just continue to protect them. Speaking about children, in this case it was dealing with adoption, but just the birth of children. You have another story that I wanted to talk about just for a few moments. It relates, of course, to the election, which now we're only six days away from the midterm elections. And this story is entitled Southern Exposure, and it deals with campaign 2014 issues. And it says this in the subtitle, in a string of Senate races across the South, pro-abortion groups are spending big to promote a shaded agenda. And it starts off very close here to home. It starts off with what's taking place in the North Carolina state legislator where they stripped Planned Parenthood of state funding in 2012 and what the reaction has been from the pro-abortion providers and how they're getting involved in this race. Tell us a little bit about what's going on specifically there in North Carolina, but then we'll look at a couple other areas as well. Sure, I mean, this story is about pro-abortion groups like Planned Parenthood and EMILY's List, which is a group that seeks to elect pro-abortion women candidates to office. And it's about the millions and millions and millions of dollars they're spending on Senate races, specifically and especially in the South. And what I start out the story pointing out is that, as you mentioned, in 2012, the North Carolina State Legislature voted to strip Planned Parenthood state funding. That was about $200,000. All of the organization went, he and Planned Parenthood bemoaned the loss and hurt women, and so now they are funding Senator Kay Hagan. They're running ads for her campaign to the tune of $3 million in North Carolina. So there's some irony there. They're bemoaning the loss of $200,000, but they're spending $3 million. in order to try to keep Kay Hagan in her seat. And they've pledged across the nation to pass the $18 million mark just in these midterm elections. Planned Parenthood plans to spend about $18 million to try to elect pro-abortion candidates to office. Their political arm is seeking to do that. So this is, to them, a very significant election, and they're pouring a ton of money into it. So that is just so wrong, you know, because here they receive federal funds. Our money, you know, is taken from us, from the taxpayer, and then given to Planned Parenthood, and then they use it to go against what, you know, against what many people, of course, and the United States are against the majority of people being against abortion and being against certainly the types of abortions that they provide as well. I mean, it's just, I hope people see the problem here that they're using the money that they receive, much of it to be able to then use in a political campaign. Yeah, and of course they make these unfair distinctions where they say, well, we're not using taxpayer money in these campaigns. We have political action committees, and we raise money, and those are the funds we use. And that may be true, but it's still the case that having that money frees them up to do all these other things. So, you know, there's a lot of, I think, in my opinion, sort of fudging those lines there. But you're right. I mean, they're a tremendously funded organization who just spends a ton of money to kind of stay in this position of power. North Carolina is interesting because I think it's something to the order of 500,000 more women are registered to vote in that state than men. And so that's kind of an interesting side note to this story. It is, and you know, one of the things I mentioned also in the story is Emily's List, this group I mentioned a moment ago that seeks to elect pro-abortion women to office. They're running a ton of ads in North Carolina, too, but here's the interesting thing. None of their ads mention abortion. None of them even mention contraception. They talk about equal pay for women, and they talk about education. So it's really interesting that their one issue, they don't want to hit on that. And I think some pro-life advocates see that as a sign that that this is not the most popular issue to campaign on anymore. And so, I mean, it seems a little disingenuous for an explicitly pro-abortion group to be running out to have nothing to do with abortion. But I think it also says something encouraging about perhaps there being even more of a pro-life trend among women. So we'll see how all that plays out as well. Yeah, right now I'm seeing some reports that are saying that Republican candidates are doing pretty well and actually have spiked in this last few day run up to the election, which is a good time to spike, of course. But I'm just saying that, you know, the president and his agenda is very negative and where they can bring in the president's leadership or lack of leadership, the Democratic leaders themselves from the Democratic Party, where they can talk about them and their lack of leadership as well or poor leadership. into the races, then those candidates seem to be doing, the Republican candidates against the Democratic ones, seem to be doing pretty well in their races. And it looks like, at least right now, it's going to be quite a night for the Republicans on Tuesday. We hope that's the case. It looks like it will. I mean, it's interesting. Democratic candidates have wanted very little to do with the president. I mean, we've seen the president campaigning very, very little. And then that's unusual that Democratic candidates realize they need to distance themselves from this extremely unpopular president at this point. And so that's not a good sign for a party that wants to win or to hold onto seats. And so, I mean, a lot of people, I think, are seeing that as a sign that things could go for Republicans, and we'll just have to wait and see. One of the headlines the other day listed this as the rejection election. I thought that that was a good title, that it's a way of people voicing their rejection of what this administration is doing and has done. And I think that's not just coming from the Tea Party. That's not just coming from conservatives now. It seems to be much broader than that. It seems that a number of different people and people groups across the country are voicing their opposition and their dissatisfaction with what has been taking place, and I think that's going to make a big difference on Tuesday. I think so too, and I think if it does, I think if we see Republicans For instance, take the Senate. They've got a lot of work to do. I mean, I think the celebration's probably pretty short, because they've got a lot of work to do to fill that vacuum. I mean, you've got two years before a presidential election, and if you win, because people are disgruntled, but you don't come in with real steps and real plans and real ways to make progress, that's going to be a problem. So I think the next thing to look for will be how will Republicans, how will conservatives lead and try to reverse some of these really negative trends. Yeah, I totally agree. Unfortunately, in an election, because you're against something more than you're actually for something never gets anybody really jazzed about the actual election. And, you know, some of these rascals on the Republican side are a little better, other than the platform, you know, we were just talking about with abortion and and social issues. We hope that they, most of the time, especially in the abortion issue, they're much better than the other side. And hopefully on the remainder of social issues like marriage and so forth, I hope that they hold the line and stay better on those issues as well. But you're absolutely right. They haven't been talking a lot about what they would actually do, what they're for. They've been mostly talking about what they're against. And we want to see that really articulated. Most recently, I think, some of their leaders have now been saying that they will stop, if they get the Senate, they will stop Obama's executive order for amnesty, which I'm very much in favor of stopping that. And I hope that that's the case. I'm not quite sure what they have in their tool bag to be able to do that. I think dealing with funding and so forth. But hopefully that is truly the case, because I think that that would really fundamentally change the country for the worse. And I think that that should be on top of everybody's mind when they're voting. Jamie, thank you so much for talking about these stories today and writing these things. World Mag, again, you know, just bringing some of these really important issues to light, and we're so glad that you folks do it on a regular basis. Well, you're certainly welcome. Thanks for having us. Okay. That was Jamie Dean again from World Magazine. And again, you want to check out some of those articles that we were talking about with Jamie. The article related to the Qatar that we're talking about is not out yet, but I think it'll be coming out shortly. So you can watch WorldMag.com for that. The other article that I referred to called Southern Exposure, that one is out and it is actually part of their Return of the Security Mom issue that came out. The date on it is November 1st. Go out to their webpage www.worldmag.com. Stay tuned, we'll be right back. You're listening to Knowing the Truth with Pastor Kevin Bowling. For more information about today's program, the radio ministry, and the resources we offer, go to www.knowingthetruth.org.