A few of us have the free time to study God's Word as much as we'd like. The goal of this series is not only to open up the scriptures to our listeners, but also to help bivocational teachers prepare to teach the scriptures. These recordings were taught using the method Jesus used in small groups. When Jesus spoke to the multitudes, he preached. It was monologue. However, when Jesus spoke to smaller groups, he often used the question-and-answer participatory method. Since this unedited presentation is question-and-answer style, and since only the teacher had a microphone, the answers and scripture readings from the participants were often lost. While this at times may be frustrating, listening to each lesson will still give you a good idea of the types of issues and applications raised in each chapter and help you to think through which topics you will emphasize and how to present the material to best work with the Holy Spirit to effect the most life change. The actual teaching notes used for each recording are available without charge on our website, along with typed questions for the participants that can be emailed out a week in advance to get them thinking about the Scriptures before they arrive for the study. Our ministry is called the New Testament Reformation Fellowship. www.ntrf.org. Hebrews 13. We're going to read a paragraph which is 7 through 16. In fact, I'm going to bump it down a little bit further than that. 7 through 17. It's two similar thoughts with a bunch of stuff in between. What we're going to talk about today is heresy. How can it be detected? How is it best stopped? So, a prominent part of this very last chapter is this teaching on the role that leaders play combating false teaching. For instance, that's why I never let Andy teach. So let's read it. I'm going to get somebody close to the mic to read, and we'll do that. Doug, you look like you're close. And what we're looking for is what he says to combat heresy. See what you can get out of this. Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings. For it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods which have not benefited those devoted to them. We have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore, let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. Through him, then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of the lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will have to give an account. He says something about strange teachings in there. What did y'all get out of that? How are you supposed to safeguard against strange teachings? What ideas does he give? Jesus is always the same, so if somebody comes with something new that no one's ever heard before, you're probably wrong. Okay, so first is, Jesus never changes, so if somebody comes with something new, it's probably wrong. That's one of his arguments. What else does he say? Okay, he says, watch your leaders, the ones who taught you. What do they say about this thing? What are they doing? What have they done? What else does he say? Whatever arguments does he give? He brings in something from the Old Testament, just as the sacrifices of the Old Testament were burned, outside the camp. He says, so too, Jesus was crucified outside the camp. And what should we do? Leave the camp and go with Jesus outside. You see that? So, in other words, I'm just going to put, go outside with Jesus. But the point is, what are you supposed to do? You're supposed to leave the camp. And what he means by that is Judaism, clearly. We'll keep that in there. We'll just stop with that. That's kind of the gist of it. They're not in order, what I wrote up here. Notice how, though, he starts talking about leaders, and he kind of ends talking about leaders. So they play a big role in this thing, evidently. So let's take this apart. The first thing he says is in verse 7 about church leaders. Marcel, re-read verse 7. Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Okay, now let's talk about how that fits into his argument. Why does he point out that it was the leaders who had spoken to them the word of life? Why does he say that? They're the ones that have the truth. They're the ones that know the truth about Jesus. What were you going to say, Al? Well, just that leadership has the job, the responsibility to extract from the word of God. the sound doctrine that keeps us on the right course. On the right course. And so the contrast here, you listen to your leaders versus whoever has what he calls strange teachings. He calls it something else besides strange, doesn't he? Varied or something? Diverse. Diverse. Okay. So, yes, please. That's good. Notice the word elder is not here. Leaders. And what do leaders do? They speak the word of life. Oh, he means church leaders, yeah. And we're going to take this apart when we get to 17, but it's really not the leader you obey, it's the truth he represents. I was just going to comment, is it possible to, when it says to watch the leaders, that's kind of what it's getting at, is look at their example. Are they leading? How about the example? Because if you've got somebody that's trying to lead and you had Yeah, so he says look at the outcome of the way of life as opposed to who? The people that had the strange teaching about food and it didn't help them a bit. Now the fact, actually I said look at your leaders. It doesn't say that quite here. It starts off by saying remember. What does it mean to remember them? What does he mean by that? You were aligned with them before and you got distracted. Now remember where you were and go back. Some people think these guys are gone. In other words, they started the church. You know, this church, what if it got started in AD 40 and now we're at 65? That's 25 years later. Some of them might have died, some of them might have moved away. It could have been, you don't say elders, it could have been the eternal apostles who came through the first time, the evangelists and the church planners. He says, remember what they taught, you've known them for 25 years, look at the outcome of their life over all these years, and consider what they have to say as opposed to these fancy new, titillating, exciting, strange and diverse teachings. You see? That seems to be the contrast there. And they say, pardon the pun, but the proof's in the pudding. And he's saying, look at the outcome of their life versus their life. This strange new thing that you haven't even seen the fruit of yet. You see that? So yeah, that seems to be what he's saying. I see three action verbs in verse seven. What are the three action verbs? The first one's remember. What's the other two? Consider. And the third one is imitate. So we've talked about remembering them and considering them, and then he says, imitate them. Not only what they do, but what they believe. If they don't have dietary hang-ups, neither should you. If they don't wear yarmulkes, neither should you. Whatever it is, if they don't make sacrifices in the temple, neither should you. Al? I think also the fact that historically the central battle that the church has had to fight, which it is predominantly losing today I think, is the battle of the purity of doctrine. We think precedes the way we behave. And if our thinking goes down the drain, our behavior will go down the drain. Yeah, that's a good point. Right. And most of that, all of that, should be coming from the Word of God and mostly through the teachers that God has provided. Bad doctrine almost always produces bad fruit. Look at the outcome of the way of life. And so now, if you've got some false teacher, you know, they always have Bible verses. They've always got Bible verses. Jehovah's Witnesses have Bible verses. The Mormons, they have Bible verses. The Unitarians, they got Bible verses. But they twist them. And it might sound convincing, mightn't it, if you just listen to that. And so he's saying, alright, whoa, whoa, whoa, go back to the basics, the leaders who've taught the Word in the first place, and look at their lifestyle, look at the outcome of what they are teaching. And so, when he says, you know, you consider the fruit of the doctrine and then also imitate the leaders. So, it's all together. You can't divorce doctrine from duty or belief from behavior. It's going to affect you, for good or bad. Bet on the horse you know, not the one you don't, that's what he's saying. And so what I'm saying is, if you're just tied up in knots by somebody outside of the church, who's teaching you some strange new thing, and it sure does look convincing, but on the other hand, you can see what the church is teaching, you can see that too, and you can't decide, you gotta flip a coin, he says, don't flip the coin, go with the ones you know. What he's saying is, give their words extra weight, help that decide. We had trouble in our church years ago with this heresy of hyper-preterism. Just like the Jews missed the first coming, the church missed the second. And there's this one family that was real tempted by that, because their argument sounded so convincing. And I pointed out, look what the church of history has always believed for 2,000 years all around the world. You've got these godly church leaders studying scriptures, and they all conclude the second coming hadn't happened yet. Well, that got his attention. This is the same thing here. You go with what the leaders say if you're confused about something like that. Alright. Yes, sir. Oh, Paul says imitate me as I imitate Christ. Good. Well, he talks about Jesus, theological truth about Jesus in verse 8. What's the truth? Jesus never changes. What relevance does that have to the overall argument here? And they're saying this is something new. Right. And since Jesus never changes, so if the original Jesus man didn't teach this, it's not right. He never changes and the Word of Life never changes, and what these teachers taught hadn't changed. That's what he's saying. By the way, yes ma'am? A lot of people think these leaders aren't in the church anymore, either because they died of old age or moved away, but they had been teaching the same thing long enough. He said, you can look at the whole of their lives and you can see the outcome of it. Not that it got them killed, but rather that even though they might be dead now, they lived these lives of faithfulness to the end and it turned out good. This is not going to turn out good. So yeah, that's why a lot of people do think that. The Mormons believe there's more than one God. Okay, now that's not something the Bible teaches, so I don't know what Bible verses they'd come up with for that. But, you shouldn't believe it, but another thing they teach that's wrong is called the Adam, I think it's called the Adam-God doctrine. And what it says is, if I can read this, as man is, God once was. And as God is, man may become. And they believe that through their religion, they'll all be a future Jesus to some far off planet somewhere. And they are on the road to Godhood. And the reason they worship Jesus as God is because He's a couple thousand years ahead of you, and the Father's a couple thousand years, or however long, ahead of Him. So you've got this progression of plurality of gods all becoming more and more powerful, and Jehovah God's ahead of Jesus because He's been at it longer. And so, if you become a Mormon, you can be a god too. Well, that's polytheism, but it's called the doctrine of eternal progression. How does that fit, that doctrine, with what the author said right here in verse, whatever verse that was? Verse 8. It's strange! Thank you. It's strange. They said this is the most quoted verse in the whole book of Hebrews. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and you probably never will see a Mormon with that on the checkbooks, saying or something. The strange teachings he's talking about is in verse 9. We see it has to do with what subject? What strange subject? Food! Now, I don't think we're hung up on that too much, but in the first century, for whatever reason, that was a big deal. So, the strange teachings change over time. Colossians says, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink. Quote, do not handle, do not taste, do not touch. These have an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and aestheticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. In Corinthians, Paul wrote, food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. I don't think he's condemning here a kosher diet. He seems to be beyond that. Since he calls it varied and strange, he's evidently dealing with some heresy related to food that was popular in the first century. It probably spun off of the dietary stuff and went further with it. But anyway, look at verse 9 again. In contrast to food, what is it that really strengthens the heart? Grace. What does he say about these food people in verse 9? What observation does he make? It didn't benefit them. Now, what should this tell you about a religion that teaches special diets for spiritual purposes? Do you know of any religion that teaches that? Who? Who? The Buddhists? Okay. Islam? How about Seventh-day Adventists? How about the Mormons? I don't know, that's a good question. I said, how about? Alright, you get a bit in front of the doubt. Okay, Messianic Christians would fall in that. Yeah, if a person says you should abstain from eating certain things because it's bad for you, okay. But if they're saying this is how you get more spiritual and you're sanctified, that's where you get in trouble, right there. So in verses 10 and 11, he takes this idea of physical food to a higher level, and he starts talking about Levitical priests. So let's re-read 10 and 11 and see what he says. We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat, for the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priests as an offering for sin are burned outside the camp. What in the world is he talking about? Okay, on the Day of Atonement, what happened? Normally they could, that's how a priest made his living, so to speak, he ate what you brought. But, not on that day, the Day of Atonement, they sacrificed the bull or the goat or the lamb and all that stuff, and then, what did they do with it according to this? And they did what with the bodies? And where did they burn them? Outside the camp or outside Jerusalem in that sense. Right. He contrasts that with, what's the contrast? Jesus is our Yom Kippur. He's the ultimate Passover sacrifice, and where did he suffer and burn, so to speak? Outside the camp, on the cross, outside the city. Being infinite God, he could suffer in a finite time on the cross. What would it take you, who are finite, in infinity to suffer in hell? He suffered your hell on the cross, outside the camp. And so, the author is saying, figuratively now, let us leave the camp, and go, let's go with Jesus outside the camp. What's the camp? That's Judaism. Yes, because we have a priest called Melchizedek, and those priests aren't authorized to eat at his altar. What does authorize you to eat at that altar? faith in Jesus as the Messiah. And Jesus said, pushing the thing, He said, I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I give for the life of the world is my flesh. So, that's the idea. We have a very personal sacrifice, not that the bulls and the goats weren't personal to those people, but we have a better sacrifice. Amen, we do have a better sacrifice. You can see it helps to have studied the book up to this point, doesn't it? Now Nathan pointed out that, he can correct me, Buddhism was started as a sort of a non-religious version of Hinduism, without all the ritual and form. But it fell flat on its face and the Buddhists had to add back in the ritualism and form because they were losing adherence. People went back to Hinduism. In man-made religion, you've got certain things. You've got usually a holy building. and a holy man you take care of, and then they add other things. And so, what he's saying here is true Christianity, he's saying look, we don't have a holy building, we don't have a temple, a sanctuary, we don't have an offering, sacrifices, we don't have a priest that you can see, we don't have an altar, And what he's saying is, you worship at the true altar with a heavenly priest and leave all that behind, that's man-made religion. And that's a common denominator in all man-made religions. True Christianity doesn't have those things, since we are living stones and we make up a spiritual temple. Go back to verse 12, why did Jesus suffer? What was his purpose? To sanctify the people through his blood, that's right. And then there's an application in verse 13 and 14. Matthew, you have that up on your thing? Well, let's see the application, 13 and 14. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproaching, Lord. For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. So tell me one more time the application, according to what Matthew read. Go outside the camp with Jesus, that's right, that's where he suffered, that's it, to Calvary. Ronald Reagan was famous for saying he didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him, right? These people didn't leave Judaism. It left God. So that by the time the New Testament is written, you crucify your own Messiah, that's pretty bad. John speaks of heretical Judaism as those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie. Who are the true Jews? You are if you have Abraham's faith. That's right. So what was formerly sacred is now unclean because they expelled Jesus and he said, what are you still in there for? Leave! Why do you suppose the author picked this time in verse 13 to bring out that Jesus bore reproach? Because he was encouraging Christians. to leave the system of the world, which now included Judaism, and be separate from it. And you might be reproached just like Jesus was. By the way, now, Keith's the only one here that's left Judaism, but you leave a lot of worldly things. If you're a scientist and you leave the world of evolution, you're going to get a lot of reproach. Or, some political parties, if you become a Christian and you leave that party, you might bear a lot of reproach. As our society becomes more and more hostile, and you sort of leave that society spiritually, you'll bear reproach. There's a lot of different ways for this to happen, beyond just leaving Judaism, right? So, according to verse 14, it looks to me like the author felt no nostalgia whatsoever toward physical Jerusalem. You know that song, I walked today with Jesus, walked and felt his presence. I don't think the author would have ever written that song. Why did he have no use for Jerusalem? According to verse 14. It's a man-made city. What do we have? That city we already talked about, that Abraham was looking for, a city whose founder and builder is God, is called the New Jerusalem, right? Y'all see that? Up on the spiritual Mount Zion, didn't we talk about all that? The New Testament does not have a friendly attitude toward the Middle East, real estate. Galatians says, the present Jerusalem is in slavery with her children, but the Jerusalem above is free and she is our mother. John, in his Apocalypse, referred to physical Jerusalem as Sodom and Egypt. He said it's the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt where their Lord was crucified. What did he do to Egypt? Yes, he did. And what did he do to Sodom? Burned it up. So, see these people are having a love affair with Jewishness, and he is trying to get them away from it, okay? So, we've been talking about Levitical sacrifices, right? Well, now he says what kind of sacrifices you need to offer. So, let's reread 15 and 16 and see what kind of sacrifices we got. I'm gonna get you to read 15 and 16. Therefore, let us continually offer God a sacrifice of praise. the fruit of lips that confess his name, and do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased." So instead of going to the temple offering sacrifices of animals, what does he want you to sacrifice? What's one thing? Praises, and what's the other thing? Yeah, not just words, but doing good to other people and sharing. That's right. So let's talk about the praise part of it. Hopefully we did a little bit of that this morning. You do it all the time. all week, you ought to be doing it, Psalm chapter 50 verse 23, the one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me. Psalm 107 verse 22, the sacrifices of thanksgiving tell of his deeds and songs of joy. So, then he says, do not neglect to do good. Let me ask you a question, what good are you? Do you do good? Do you do good? I hope so too, but then he says, do not neglect to share what you have. So scent stock is cheap, put your money where your mouth is. It's all fine and good to sing praises to Jesus, but it can't be all there is to it. So, it pleases God when you offer sacrifices of doing good things for other people and even giving. For years, I have had a struggle understanding why praising God was a sacrifice. We sing songs about it. We all mouth those words. I never understood, until reading this passage, that our praise of God, number one, takes us out of ourselves. We are sacrificing self-centeredness to focus on God. And secondly, we are told to be thankful in all cases. That makes it very clear. Wow, that can be a sacrifice. Yeah. It is really a sacrifice to praise God for whatever is happening because we would never have chosen that for ourselves. Yeah. Amen, brother. It shows faith, doesn't it? That's good. Thank you, Al. Based on what he says here, how's your worship? That's what I'm asking. How's your worship? Alright, now he's got, in my opinion, what is a final safeguard from false teaching in verse 17. Nick, re-read verse 17 and tell me that final safeguard. What's the final safeguard? be persuaded by your leaders. So what relationship should exist between a church and its leaders based on verse 13? Just read what it says, what does it say? It says obey and submit, doesn't it? The normal Greek word for obey is, I think I spelled that right, hupakouo, and it's used all over the New Testament. Let me give you some examples. In Ephesians chapter 6 verse 1 it says, Children, obey your parents. That's this word. And in chapter 6, verse 5, it says, slaves, obey your masters, just like you obey your boss at work. And that word means exactly what it says. Obey. You can't explain it away. You can't get out of it. Unfortunately, that's not the word that's here. You would think it would be, but it's not. The word here is a different Greek word. It's a Greek word, pytho. And pytho, if you look it up in any dictionary, is a Greek word for what, Nathan? Persuade. Persuade. But that's in the passive or middle form, which means, if it's in the middle form, what does it mean? Well, that's the implication. Hold on. If it's active, what does it mean? Give me a sentence with the word persuade in the active form. Yeah. Persuade other people. You do persuading. That's active. Middle is persuade yourself. Passive is be persuaded, you see. So he's telling the church, look guys, be persuaded by the arguments of your church leaders about this heresy. Now if you're persuaded by something, you'll act on it. If you're persuaded this house is on fire, you'll leave. If Boo Boo here stands up and says, probably you wouldn't be persuaded. You and leave. It can't mean obey. If you're persuaded of something, you act on it, but the point is the process. Church leaders have to be good at persuading. A qualification for a church leader, he's got to be able to teach. So, what this means is the church leaders are doing a whole lot of persuading from scripture about, in this example, why the false teaching's wrong. And he's saying, Give their words extra weight. Put yourself in the frame of mind of being persuaded by what they say, because it's probably right. So again, unless you're wrestling with the heresy, you don't wrestle with something unless it's convincing. So when you can't decide, what do I do, what do I do, go with somebody that's got more experience than you do, your church leaders, be persuaded by what they say. So church leaders ought not just bark, the trinity is true, amen. You need to be persuaded that it's true, which is why Denton's gonna teach on that soon. Where is he? Okay. You got that, Denton? He's out teaching that. Now, the other word is submit. Okay, the normal Greek word for submit is another big one that you won't know if I spell wrong, but it's hoopo-tossomai. Yeah, hupotosemai is used all over the New Testament, and it's in Romans 13.1, what do you suppose it says there for submit? Who knows Romans 13.1? Submit to government. Colossians 3.18, wives, submit to your husbands. And then 1 Peter 2.13, Christians, submit to the king. Now this word, it just means what it says. Hupo means under and taso means to arrange. So you've got a pyramid like in the military with a general at the top and a private at the bottom. You arrange yourself under authority and, yes sir! Now that's the normal word. It's not used here. It should be if they're going to translate it like this, but it's not. now that's significant. when the authors depart from the normal use of grammar, it should get your attention. they did it here, and they do it here. actually, it's not that it doesn't mean submit, but it sure does change the flavor of it. the greek word here, hypiko, it's never used anywhere else in the bible. but it is used outside the bible. what does it mean? well it means submit. but what's it used of? wrestlers. armies opposing and fighting each other. Kennedy and Khrushchev, two world powers, who is he telling to blink first? The Russians. You're a Russian if you're a church person and the church leaders are the Kennedys. Now, did the South submit to the North in 1865? Yes! But, well that's the problem, it's a sort of. It didn't happen in 1861. It took four years of talking about it a little bit to get it to submit. Alright? And same with wrestlers. It's not a foregone conclusion. It's not a mindless obedience like it is to the government. I hate paying taxes. It just rubs me the wrong way. But you know what? I gotta pay the things. You just gotta do it. Well, it's not like a church leader should ever say, pronouncement, and you've just got to do it. No. He's not a cop. It's a persuasion process, and it's okay to disagree and wrangle and fight in an edifying way. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, he's saying, look, look, give their words extra weight, being a frame of mind and being persuaded. As Keith said, once you've broken all the furniture, and it's time, he's telling the church, the holdouts, not the church, but anybody in the church that disagrees with the leadership, he's telling them to blink first after the healthy process of wrangling. Now that kind of changes the flavor of it. Does it mean submit? Yeah. But you see, it's a different flavor, isn't it? Just from a church government perspective, I feel like some churches abuse the spirit of this passage and they come out with very heavy-handed, authoritarian, autocratic, dictatorial church leadership. That's wrong. what you have is this picture. But now let's put it back into heresy context. The problem with heresy is it's pretty vibrant, it's pretty convincing, or you wouldn't be tempted by it. And there can be talking about it, and you can question it strongly, but if at the end of the day you're not persuaded, he's still telling you to blink first and go with what the leadership says. the word of God and how he has set up Christianity. The government model, just as you mentioned with taxes, is plain, but you have no choice. It's not about you being persuaded or persuading yourself because its model actually kind of incites a rebellion in a sense. Yeah, that's good. And this one puts down rebellion. Exactly. That's good, Al. You know, another thing about this too is that if the rule is suffer myself, suffer yourself to be persuaded. It means that the leader to whom I am going to submit has to be persuasive. Say they have to do their homework. They have to be able to persuade. That's right. Yeah, one of the qualifications of an elder is to be able to refute those who differ, meaning, in that case, again, false teachers. And that's part of it, too. Thank you. Yes. That's right. That's right. So, people question the Trinity. People question the deity of Christ. People question the very gospel message. People question the inerrancy of scripture. The reality of hell is being questioned right now. Gender roles between men and women in the church and in the family, all that's being questioned. Well, if you read their arguments, maybe it sounds pretty persuasive. But he's saying you need to go with the tried and the true of what church leaders all along have taught in the past, and that your present church leaders ought to still be teaching. That's what he's saying. What reason does he give for submitting to church leaders in verse 17? They've got to give an account to God. And James says, we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. Part of that same thing. Because it says they're watching over your soul, meaning they're guarding the flaw against, in this case, false teachings, false practices. Well Jesus said, to whom much is given, much will be required. That's true. So if they are sharing, these guys are sharing, and they're going to give an account because you're going to yield to what they're saying. So it's very important if they're going to be outspoken with God, they need to be true. Yes. Thank you. Also, he's talking to Jews here who want to go back to Judaism. He's not talking to Greeks. And there is a very good reason that they call the Jews the stiff-necked and stubborn people. And this is addressing the very issue that, well, you may be right, but I'm still going to argue. After a point. You can argue for a little while. So when you have guys on TV or people that come through with these new things, oh that's so exciting, it's so titillating. F.F. Bruce said, there will always be a tendency throughout the churches for visitors who come purveying new and esoteric doctrines to be regarded as much more attractive and interesting personalities than the rather humdrum local elders who never taught anything new but were content with the conservative line of apostolic tradition. I have seen that. He says, nevertheless, it was those local leaders and not the purveyors of strange teaching who had a real concern for the welfare of the church and a sense of their accountability to God in this respect. That is an 80-year-old problem. It never changes. Well, he took advantage of it in that case, didn't he? Yes. Go ahead. What? just gives you nothing but grief, and after a while, you're like, fine, die. He's trying to do good, and the dog is just not cooperating. And it's telling us, don't do that. It is. Thank you. Because you're going to aggravate this guy who's really laying his life on the line to help you. At some point, he might just give up. He is human, just like the rest of us. And at some point, he might give up. You don't want him to do that. Don't give him so much grief. You know, back in the 20s, Ataturk had the new turkey, they called them young Turks, you know. That became a byword for young men full of vim and vigor. So, if you consider yourself a young man, I think it's appropriate to point out that whereas this word, pytho, is used here about church being persuaded by your leaders, well, in Peter, it says, young men, submit to your elders. And you know what word he uses? Not the word for persuade, not the word for battle. This other word just means submit, like wives to her husband or citizens to the government. And why do you think he singles out young men with a word that you guys just need to shut up and submit? That's what he says. It's the gunslinger mentality of the wild west. Why do you think a young man couldn't be a judge in ancient Israel? You just gotta have mileage. So, in this whole process, who's the most likely to be carried away by Verdant's strange teachings? Oh yeah, why did Obama get elected? All the young people voted for him. It's new! It's different! Oh, change! What change? From what? You know, you always think if it's new, it's better. Well, it's not. You get a little mileage on you and you say, oh, wait a minute. Sandra looks troubled. Last thought, Sandra. It says that too. Thank you, young men being silent in the gates. There you go. So, in conclusion, what role do church leaders play in combating heresy? What? Umpire, would you say? They hold the line. They're your last line of defense in that sense. They are the conservatives. They ought to know. It's a little bit about church government, but it's mostly about heresy. Now it's just a matter of time till we get some new heretics in. They won't think they're heretics. They'll come through. Maybe they won't stay long. Now you don't know. Ed and I run off a lot of people you'll never meet. we're protecting the sheep. Now if we think they're innocent, if we think they're harmless, that's one thing, but if they got an axe to grind, well, you never know about it. That's the elder's job. When rams butt heads, like Keith said, you know what happened? Lambs get trampled. And that's not good. You want to avoid that if at all possible. Then when we had that big preterist blow up, we lost a lot of very innocent people who couldn't take the controversy. Anyhow, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Maybe next time we'll finish Hebrews. 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