Nathan wrote:St JeremiahI hope you don't place salvation by grace through faith in the cultural context of 1st Century Middle East like you do Leviticus 19:18?
Nathan wrote:I mean how far does cultural context operate?It's up to the bias of the individual to which many ministers in churches today do not even believe in God ... probably because it isn't culturally relevant to do so today.It isn't culturally relevant to be against homosexuality.What you are proposing is that changing standards of a society can change what is relevant in scripture.I like that you state the scripture yet you voted no. That takes a lot of mental gymnastics.None the less at least you still come to the same conclusion that it defiles the temple of God.Just watch out cultural context does not supersede scripture.
I hope you don't place salvation by grace through faith in the cultural context of 1st Century Middle East like you do Leviticus 19:18?I mean how far does cultural context operate?It's up to the bias of the individual to which many ministers in churches today do not even believe in God ... probably because it isn't culturally relevant to do so today.
It isn't culturally relevant to be against homosexuality.
What you are proposing is that changing standards of a society can change what is relevant in scripture.
I like that you state the scripture yet you voted no. That takes a lot of mental gymnastics.
None the less at least you still come to the same conclusion that it defiles the temple of God.
Just watch out cultural context does not supersede scripture.
Part of this message to us today is that what our culture thinks and how they perceive things is important. If some clothing or jewelry or body decoration would associate us with the pagan world, it should not be done. This is a difficult line to draw, because the standards of culture are always changing. Some modern examples of changing standards are hair length and earrings for men.
Leviticus 19:28....concerns the practice of a pagan culture. Instead of this text....for Christians wanting to get a tatoo...I go to 1 Corinthians 6:19 & 20.
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Modern body art...even it is with relgious pictures...is a desecration of the Lord's temple.
I do not buy your confession of faith, and here is why.
If I told you that I was a believer yet I frequently make use of profanity, you would call me a liar. If I claimed to love Christ and yet dressed as a goth (leather, black lipstick, and bright green hair, say), you would not believe me. My actions would give me away.
Yes, it is what is inside that counts. But, an inward change always has an outward change as a symptom. For example, have you ever heard of what happened to Norma McCorvey? She's the "Roe" of Roe vs Wade responsible for legalized abortion, but now she is outspoken publicly in her belief that abortion is a sin.
Yes, Jesus does not judge by our outward appearance, but our outward appearance is to represent Christ. It is inconsistent for you to defend having a tatoo and a nose piercing while at the same time claiming to love the LORD. Also, if you are a man, defending having earings is equally contradicting. (Deut 22:5 - A moral law that didn't pass away)
An inward change unaccompanied by an outward change isn't really an inward change.
Yes, it is clear. Tatoos and all this other decorating of the flesh is unecessary for the children of God. They should abstain from it.
"In the NT we have much more liberty, diversity."
A great buzz word...diversity..it's used to justify all kinds of lawlessness of the flesh, or in the case of tatoos, destruction of the body. Don, perhaps we should take the other extreme and have no contraints to our lusts, right? I don't buy that. If the Apostles recommended against decorating the body with gold, jewels, and costly array, surely tatoos are a no-no.
Read Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances,
Hos 2:11 "I will also put an end to all her gaiety, Her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths, And all her festal assemblies. Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come,
Generally, the Law is deprecated in the NT for two reasons: it condemns but does not save, and its ceremonial ordinances (the Tabernacle, circumcision) were fulfilled in Christ. Otherwise, the Decalogue is repeated in the NT as normative for Christians; I don't have my list w/ me but it's all there, directly or otherwise. The casuisitic commands in the OT like Ex. 21 are derivative from it, so while cultures & circumstances change, the need for proper use of the Decalogue still stands. Lawkeeping is not part of justification, true, but it IS part of sanctification.
That does sound awful snotty! My apologies.
Ok. I am calm.
Now you calm down.
Well, you must not be too bad, I guess. You are a Baptist.
But no I am not better than you: to answer your question.
If you made past mistakes, you are not going to hell. You've must've heard some haughty fundamentalist preach. Sometimes, you just have to take the truth of what they say and ignore their attitude.
But you must forget your past and reach for the things ahead of you. So long as you realize it was wrong, there is no reason to feel any more guilt.
You did sound like you were defending the practice of tatooing. But if that was not the case, you have my sincere apologies for my misunderstanding.
But if you should debate me once again, do not take anything personally. If you reread my posts I try to attack your ideas. But even sometimes this can understandibly be offensive. But if you were to talk to me face to face, I am sure you will realize that this is far from the truth.
That is a antinomianism in a nutshell.
Let me turn the tables (pun intended) re the Law. Are we now free to curse the deaf, as that is not forbidden in the New Testament?
"Does the scipture clearly teach that we should abstain from any type of body markings like tatoos."
You said:"I have a tattoo, ears pierced, and nose pierced. I am saved by faith. I love the LORD, I witness for the LORD. My tattoo is tasteful and hidden from the general public. But, and I'm not twisting the BIBLE, it also clearly states, that we are not the ultimate judge and jury. GOD is. So for a man or woman to condemn me for my personal choice, is to sin themselves. Correct?"
So it seems to me that you ARE arguing in favor of tatoos.
I am glad that you try to please the Lord in every area of your life, but we must please the Lord in every area of our lives even if it hurts us a little bit.
"Jesus will judge us by our heart and soul, not by our outwardly appearance. It is what is inside that counts."
That is where Matthew backs up my comment. It is you that didn't read.
Jesus Himself said in Matthew 15:11 that it is what comes out of the mouth of man that defiles him - that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Matthew 12:34-35). It is the love, purity and faith that comes out of your heart that keeps your temple holy - or it is the strife, immorality and unbelief within your heart that defiles it.---
I am not and will not argue the Bible, OT or NT. I was stating what I had found. You are instead, trying to be insulting. I gave my opinion, and backed it up, like you asked. At no point did I lower myself to insult you or your point of view. So in closingMay God Bless You