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BIBLE, SOCIETY, TECH, PERSONAL SURVEYS | FAVORITES CREATE NEW

All Categories |  Bible & Theology Issues
469 total votes have been cast on this survey | 29 user comments  ( edit survey )

In Joshua 24:15 What does 'The other side of the flood ' refer to?
Created: 11/13/2005 | Last Vote: 8 years ago | Comment: 11 years ago
Disclaimer: These surveys are created by PLUS or FULL Members of the site and, unless specified, are not created by the SermonAudio staff nor do they necessarily reflect the site's position on any topic.

 •   Noah's Flood
  34% | 160 votes

 •   The Euphrates River
  21% | 97 votes

 •   The Red Sea
  16% | 76 votes

 •   River in general
  5% | 22 votes

 •   Haven't the slighest
  14% | 64 votes

 •   No answer. Skip this survey, I do not care to vote on this topic.
  11% | 50 votes

   

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· Page 1 ·  Found: 29 user comment(s)

Survey11/11/08 2:13 PM
St Jeremiah | Salt Lake City, UT  Contact via emailGo to homepageFind all comments by St Jeremiah
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Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Haran, they settled there. Genesis 11:31

(Abram) took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot (from) Haran, and they set out for the land of Canaan, and they arrived there. Genesis 12:5

The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia...he left the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After the death of his father, God sent him to this land where you are now living. Acts 7:2, 4

...the great river, the Euphrates - Gen 15:18

So (Jacob) fled with all he had, and crossing the River (That is, the Euphrates), he headed for the hill country of Gilead. Gen. 13:21


Survey9/1/08 7:34 PM
freed | idaho  Find all comments by freed
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Cheryl wrote:
Chris M,
How in the world does that Scripture verse debunk Calvinism?
Calvinism is right on as I see it..TULIP is correct as I understand.

Survey3/16/08 11:34 PM
MurrayA | Australia  Find all comments by MurrayA
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This question would not arise were it not for the renderings of the KJV. Thus it is really but one facet of the more general doctrine of the supposed infallibility of the KJV renderings, a tenet of KJV-only-ism.

Why oh why do not KJVO folks simply read and take on board what Miles Smith wrote in his "Translators to the Reader" on behalf of all the translators? They were not claiming any kind of finality or irreformability to their product. Quite the reverse! They were trying to make good translations better, and trying to rise above partisanship.

We thank God for the contribution that the KJV has made over the last three to four centuries (remember that its path to acceptance was far from immediate, but was slow and rocky).

However, it is time to move on: we know much more about Hebrew and cognate languages now; we likewise know more about the Greek language through the multitudes of papyri from the Graeco-Roman world of the time. There is no reason at all to regard the KJV, or any translation, as the be-all and end-all. As Miles Smith himself observed,
"They that are wise, had rather have their judgements at liberty in differences of readings, than to be captivated to one, when it may be the other."


Survey3/16/08 8:01 PM
Mr. J | Australia  Find all comments by Mr. J
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The only thing that makes sense is the Euphrates. It talks about the gods/idols that Abraham served before his conversion. They were never eradicated and surfaced again when Rachel stole them from her father Laban. But it makes little difference in the overall scheme of things, as there is one true God and apart from Him an endless host of false gods, including man as he deifies himself. Joshua is telling the Israelites there are only two possibilities - either you serve the Living God or you are an idolater. This is a truth that reverberates throughout Scripture; there are only two kinds of people in this world - those who are in Christ and those who are not. There are sheep and goats, wheat and tares, elect and reprobate; call them what you like. But the fact remains you either serve the Living God or you are an idolater.

Survey3/16/08 4:01 PM
DJC49 | Florida  Contact via emailFind all comments by DJC49
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"The other side of the flood" -- as found in Joshua 24:15 -- refers to the Euphrates River.

I think it becomes fairly clear that the Euphrates is indicated especially after one reads "the flood" mentioned in previous verses of the same chapter of Joshua.

(Joshua 24:2) "And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, [even] Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods."

From where did Terah originate and serve other gods?
Answer: UR OF THE CHALDEES.

(Gen 11:31) "And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them FROM UR OF THE CHALDEES, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there."

Also:
(Joshua 24:3) "And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.
(Jos 24:14) "Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD."


Survey3/16/08 2:30 PM
Observation Post  Find all comments by Observation Post
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When read in context it appears that the flood Joshua spoke of was the flood of fire and brimstone which overthrew Somom and Gomorrah. The timing is right and these words spoken by Jesus add strength to this view:

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Luke 17:26-30

The other side of the flood is the time before the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah when men served idols and knew not God.


Survey11/29/07 7:19 AM
kevin | Georgetown De  Find all comments by kevin
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MurrayA, you are correct, It was a mistake on my part, I was in a big hurry, and didn’t re-read my post before I sent it. What I meant was “The word flood “nâhâr” [naw-hawr'] and it means “a stream and/or including the sea.” The word is taken from “nâhar”
[naw-har'] (A primitive root; to sparkle, that is, (figuratively) be cheerful; hence (from the sheen of a running stream) to flow, that is, (figuratively) assemble: - flow (together), be lightened.)
“But in each case such a rendering is a mistranslation. (I'm expecting here the howls of ignorant abuse from the KJVO people)”
No, it is not a mistranslation, and yes I am a KJVO. There are only 2 basic manuscripts, [now I know that these are copies] in which all Bible translations.
1) Majority Text (Textus Receptus) - originally known as the Received Text, which was compiled between 1514 and 1641. The Majority Text has, since then, been made up of thousands of other Greek manuscripts. These later manuscript discoveries have confirmed the reliability of the Received Text.
2) Minority Text (Alexandrian Text)is based mainly on just two manuscripts, the Vaticanus (also known as "B") and the Sinaiticus (also known as "Aleph"). These manuscripts not only disagree with the Majority Text, but they disagree with each

Survey11/28/07 8:50 PM
MurrayA | Australia  Find all comments by MurrayA
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Kevin, with the utmost respect, you are talking claptrap.
1. 'eber as a noun indeed means "the opposite side", the region beyond". But here in the combination b'eber it is a prepositional phrase meaning simply "beyond".
2 Heb. nahar NEVER means "sea". The regular word for sea is "yam". It is occasionally translated "floods" in the KJV (Psa.24:2; 93:3; Song 8:7; and in Job [14:11; 22:16; 28:11]), and likewise in Josh.24:2,3,15. But in each case such a rendering is a mistranslation. Even in Job 22:16 it is a river in flood which sweeps things away. (I'm expecting here the howls of ignorant abuse from the KJVO people)

There are several texts where "the River" denotes the Euphrates: Deut.11:24 (where the name Perat is added for further clarification); Psa.72:8; Isa.7:20; 8:7; 11:15: 19:5; Zech.9:10.

In Josh.24 the reference is clear, as Joshua mentions the idolatrous worship practised by Terah and Nahor, clearly in Mesopotamia (24:2), and then how God brought them from Mesopotamia to Canaan (24:3). In each case in this passage "the River" refers to to the Euphrates, the border of the West Semitic world and the East Semitic world of Mesopotamia.


Survey11/28/07 2:59 PM
kevin | Georgetown De  Find all comments by kevin
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MurrayA is wrong.

The phrase “on the other side” is “ay'-ber” and it means “region across or opposite side”
The word flood “nâhâr” and it means “a stream or sea”
Therefore we have the phrase the “region across or opposite the stream or sea.”
Now the question is who, what, where?
In the 1st verse we read, “And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, …”, other words the 12 tribes.
Now in verse 14 we see the same Hebrew word, “ay-ber”. “and put away the elohiyms which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Yahweh.”
Note your “fathers” those of Egypt, not those of the river Euphrates.
Now note in verse 15, when Yahweh says “which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood,”
“which your fathers served that were on the region across or opposite side of the stream or river.”
Now ask yourself which river? Red Sea!

Now in closing I will say that some manuscripts do read “which your fathers served on the other side of the Euphrates and in Egypt.”

Kevin


Survey11/26/07 6:07 PM
Discerning Believer  Find all comments by Discerning Believer
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Murray is correct. A different Hebrew word המבול 'mabbul' is used in reference to the flood or deluge of Noah's day.

Survey11/26/07 5:51 PM
MurrayA | Australia  Find all comments by MurrayA
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Joshua 24:15
"Beyond the flood" (KJV) is actually "beyond the River" (Heb. b'eber hannahar), and refers to the river Euphrates, i.e. Mesopotamia, or more specifically lower Mesopotamia, where Abraham's ancestors lived, viz. Ur and surrounding regions, the city states of Sumer.

Joshua specifically refers to "the gods which your fathers worshipped" (Terah et al and their worship of the moon deity) when they they lived there. Part of God's call to Abraham was to leave that whole environment with its idolatry and go to a new land where fellowship with the true God would be all important.


Survey11/26/07 4:42 PM
daveandnic | detroit, mi  Find all comments by daveandnic
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i find it amazing that one would skip over God's sovereignty in hardening pharaoh's heart to (allegedly) debunk calvin's teachings with the red sea.

Survey1/17/06 10:42 AM
David | Uk  
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Hey Sihon was king of the amorites and heshbon was on the other side of the jordan to shechem

Survey1/2/06 4:29 PM
Socrates | Iowa  
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The flood is another name for river spicifcaly the Jordon. When the Iseallites intered Caanon they crossed the river Jordon at the time of year that it was at flood stag.

Survey1/2/06 1:06 PM
Matthew  
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David and Gabriela,

What a wonderful description of IRRESISTIBLE GRACE!!!

So much for free choice...


Survey11/26/05 3:26 AM
John | San Jose, CA  
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I always assumed it was talking about Noah's flood, but after reading
some of the previous posts AND re-reading Joshua 24, it DOES in fact
sound like they're talking about the Euphrates river. Interesting!

If we read verse 15 carefully we see it's not a choice between gods
including Jehovah, but a choice of gods EXCLUDING Jehovah. The first
part of the verse makes this abundantly clear. Joshua is NOT making a
choice but affirming to his fellow Israelites that he belives that it's
NOT evil to serve the Lord, therefore no choice is necessary or even made
on his part.

For proof of Arminianism or Calvinism, one has to look elswhere in the
Bible. You won't find it here.


Survey11/14/05 2:16 PM
David and Gabriela Buzulak | Newville, Pennsylvania  
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Arthur,

I liked your answers below. I've been teaching my wife the Hebrew and sometimes I confuse her. I'll try and get her to read the O.T. in English next time.


Survey11/14/05 2:12 PM
Arthur | Scotland  
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David Gabriella

Well at least on this survey thread the Calvinist came up with the right answer.
There is no way that this refers to the Noahdic flood.
At least my Calvinist theological schooling taught me to read the plain evidence of Scripture.


Survey11/14/05 2:02 PM
Ronald Robey | Mississippi  
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Amen David and Gabriela.

Wonderful illustration of free choice


Survey11/14/05 1:58 PM
David and Gabriela Buzulak | Newville, Pennsylvania  
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I wonder if Chris M was ascribing the crossing of the Red Sea as a symbol of God's free gift of salvation.

Think about this:
There were the Israelites trapped at the Red Sea(devil/certain death/sin-bondage).
But God stopped the Egyptians with the cloud/darkness(God's power/protection).
God then seperated the Sea(offer of salvation).
Moses and the people accept(what you must DO in order to be saved)
Israelites cross safely to the other side(Heaven bound).

Had the Israelites refused it would have meant back to bondage and/or certain death.

God did not push the Hebrews thru the Sea. He created a way of safety and it was up to the Jew to do something. They chose salvation. They had a free-will choice. They chose right

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