Michael Hranek wrote:Have you all ever or are you now experiencing or hearing of these kind of services and events?
How about this one:
If someone preaches the death, burial and resurrection of Christ are they preaching the gospel if?
#7 They are a man FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND WITH FAITH. A man who is LIVING IN THE SPIRIT, WALKING IN THE SPIRIT, AND WHO CARES NOTHING FOR THIS WORLD AND ITS TOYS. A man who is loving, kind, generous, dedicated to Christ, committed to his flock, and who walks worthy of his calling.
I was thinking of this just five minutes ago, pondering as to why there are so few conversions today. I thought that maybe it is because today there is too much intellectualism, and not enough belief, in the church today. Too much time and effort is spent on controversial issues and in-fighting, rather than the important issue of getting disciples discipled and FILLED with the Spirit of God, and DOING his will in the world.
I believe there can be a return to the 'ACTS' experience, if only we desire the same attitude they had back then. Full Commitment to the Cause of the Lord Jesus Christ!
* If we invite someone to a church service were the "hymn singing" is only a ritual to endure and made to be convient for the members, where truly edifying verses are regularly omitted for times sake, where the singing is oft interrupted with announcements, the offering, an entertaining mini dramas?
and in contrast to this
* if we invite or bring our teenagers and young adults to mega blow out all night events full of games, sports, hillarity, pizza soda and snacks, music that will make your ears ring preformed by musicians that imitate the behavior of worldly celebraties to hear and entertaining and humorous speaker tell them to believe in Jesus?
Have you all ever or are you now experiencing or hearing of these kind of services and events?
apercu wrote: You don't 'alf talk a load of old fertilizer John. Must be your inner hyper-wesleyan fluences!!!!What you need is a good dose of tulip mixture to cure you of Bible error.
But just to be charitable to you, let me explain that I had it proven to me by my Calvinistic friends over at Cork Free Presbyterian Church, which is in Cork, Rep of Ireland. God bless 'em, to be sure, why aye!
If you're not convinced, let me know ASAP and I will post up where this proof is with a link. Okay dude?
Man, you sure dredge 'em up, eh? You copyin' out every post that goes up. Wow that should make interesting reading, me ol' turnip.
John UK wrote:It is also proven that Frenchie was like the apostle, in desiring the salvation of all men, and believed that we should seek to bring the entire world into Christ's flock, that they all might be saved
Alan H wrote:Your comparisons will never justify your condemnation of many good men for the evil of a few. Michael, I'll be quite frank, you are an accuser of the brethren. I really think you need to examine your heart (as do we all).
2 Pet 315 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
I have to consider what would Paul a man filled with the Spirit, who a rebuked and repentant Peter acknowledged as one whom God used in writting Scripture would have done with the individuals who professed to be Christians and yet put people to death over theological disagreements. In Paul's letters it is quite clear he addresses various sins and errors in the different churches he wrote to...so was he an accusor???
Putting heretics and dissenters to death in Jesus name (supposedly) all for the glory of God is something I believe is evil and wrong. Further if the civil laws of the local community demand this it is likewise evil and wrong such as Nazi law against Jews in WW2. Corrie TenBoom resisted such laws didn't she
Michael Hranek wrote:Alan HYour post reminds me of history.
The Apostle Paul wrote:"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared..." Titus 3:1-4"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Timothy 2:25, 26
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Timothy 2:25, 26
Alan H wrote:It seems only some of those in Massachusetts were guilty of this event.
Your post reminds me of history. It is reported there was a church along the railroad tracts in WW2 Germany where trains full of Jews on their way to the death camps pitifully wailing disrupted the worship service on their way to by on Sunday mornings. So the people just sang louder to keep from being bothered.
When the Death Camps were liberated U.S. Commanding Officers were so outraged they had the local populace dragged in to witness the piles of corpses and see the barracks and all because the local people made it out like they didn't know and were not in the least responsible even though they could smell the stench of burning bodies daily.
Then in the good old USA we had professing Christians who personally would never own a slave but didn't want to do a thing if somebody else wanted to have a whole plantation full of stolen human property from Africa.
Then there is abortion. It is one thing to say you personally oppose abortion and another to ever participate in a protest against the killing outside a clinic.
IMHO the world doesn't need to hear a church singing louder that whitewashes itself as to evil but one that REPENTS
Michael Hranek wrote:Alan HMary Dryer was hung to death so kindly do yourself a favor and own up to the reality of it in good old Puritan Massachusetts and quit pretending your beloved Puritans are some kind of giants in Christian compassion. regarding others.
"...among the many woful miscarriages of men professing the religion of Jesus Christ, whereby the beauty and glory of it have been stained in the world, and itself in a great measure rendered ineffectual unto its blessed ends, there is not any thing of more sad consideration than the endeavors of men to promote and propagate the things which they suppose belong unto it by ways and means directly contrary unto, and destructive of, its most known and fundamental principles For when it is once observed and manifest that the actings of men in the promotion of any religion are forbidden and condemned in that religion which they seek to promote, what can rationally be concluded but that they not only disbelieve themselves what they outwardly profess, but also esteem it a fit mask and cover to carry on other interests of their own which they prefer before it?" (John Owen - A VINDICATION OF THE ANIMADVERSIONS ON â€śFIAT LUX;â€ť
Alan H wrote: Where in the world did you ever come up with idea that "all the Puritans" should be held accountable for the hanging of Mary Dryer?
But hey let's just white wash what happened with Mary Dryer and others who experience the wonderful freedom of religion these Puritans had for them so we can all be happy. Right? ROTFL
Mary Dryer was hung to death so kindly do yourself a favor and own up to the reality of it in good old Puritan Massachusetts and quit pretending your beloved Puritans are some kind of giants in Christian compassion. regarding others.
Michael Hranek wrote:Alan H Where in the world did the Puritans come up with the idea of hanging Mary Dryer? From Calvin? Augustine?????
From Calvin? Augustine?????
The LORD God wrote:"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." Ezekiel 18:20
"It is the religion of Christ you pretend to plead for and to promote; but if there be a word true in it, the way you take for that end, â€” namely, by openly false accusations, â€” is to be abhorred; which manifests what regard unto it you inwardly cherish."
"You little think how much it concerns him to look to himself who undertakes to accuse another..."
(The Puritan John Owen - "Vindication of the first chapter of the 'Animadversions.'")
Alan H wrote:Michael,I did not intend on being funny. I take this matter very seriously.
Where in the world did the Puritans come up with the idea of hanging Mary Dryer?
Luke 954 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, â€śLord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?â€ť55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, â€śYou do not know what manner of spirit you are of.56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy menâ€™s lives but to save them.â€ť And they went to another village.
Not from this passage
Luke 2333 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left.34 Then Jesus said, â€śFather, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.â€ť And they divided His garments and cast lots.
Not this one either
Acts 759 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, â€śLord Jesus, receive my spirit.â€ť60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, â€śLord, do not charge them with this sin.â€ť And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Oops not this one
Alan H wrote:Michael,You acknowledged yourself that "some" who are Reformed "would rightfully reject everyone of these false beliefs (unless...
Michael Hranek wrote:Alan HYour post is "funny".
I did not intend on being funny. I take this matter very seriously. I noticed you didn't answer any of my humorous questions below:
1). Did Augustine die still believing these errors?
2). Do you think that those who quoted his writings agreed with everything he said?
3). Is the "truth" no longer true when spoken by a man who holds to some "serious" erroneous opinions?
4). Did he come to a greater understanding and change his opinions regarding those things?"
Say Michael, I would like to ask you another question, do you think John Calvin was saved or lost? You seem to imply that he was unsaved and that all who are Calvinists share that same fate by following his teaching.
Did you ever consider the fact that if Calvin was right, then you are wrong, and you are fighting against God. IMHO, YOU ARE WRONG!!!
As to "Catholic" belief among the Reformed how about infant sprinkling (I know they call it baptism) and the denial of believer's baptism...well I guess those "baptising" their babies don't really hold it all that secret, so I confess I miss it on that one.
Another "Catholic" belief is that of an "authoritative" church with complusory church "membership" etc. that punishes heretics and dissenters (The Inquistion of the RCC is also famous for this)...such as can be seen in what happened to Mary Dryer and others at the hands of the Puritans (Calvinists) in New England.
Alan H wrote:"At the end of a book, we sometimes find that the printers insert a list of â€śErrata,â€ť â€” errors made in the printing of the volume. Ah, me! we shall need to have a long list of â€śErrataâ€ť at the end of the volume ofour lives. How many mistakes we have made! Augustine, in his â€śConfessions,â€ť amended what he had written amiss in his previous books. The best of men need continually to confess their errors..." C. H. Spurgeon
And if the 'best of men' have need to confess their errors continually, what of ordinary turnips like myself? If I have any grievance in this life, it is that I have not served the Lord as I would have wished - and after he has done so much for me!
But I praise him that his efforts on my behalf, and on behalf of all God's eternally beloved remnant is quite sufficient to ensure the eternal felicity of all who are recipients of his grace, that is, his undeserved favour.
Michael Hranek wrote:...the question is WHY some Reformed who would rightfully reject everyone of these false beliefs (unless they secretly hold them) would ever consider such a HERETIC a HERO in the world of Reformed or Calvinistic religion?
You acknowledged yourself that "some" who are Reformed "would rightfully reject everyone of these false beliefs (unless...)," so to imply that those who are Reformed are Roman Catholic Augustinians is just a poor attempt to slander without any real basis.
Did Augustine die still believing these errors? Do you think that those who quoted his writings agreed with everything he said? Is the "truth" no longer true when spoken by a man who holds to some "serious" erroneous opinions? Did he come to a greater understanding and change his opinions regarding those things?
"At the end of a book, we sometimes find that the printers insert a list of â€śErrata,â€ť â€” errors made in the printing of the volume. Ah, me! we shall need to have a long list of â€śErrataâ€ť at the end of the volume ofour lives. How many mistakes we have made! Augustine, in his â€śConfessions,â€ť amended what he had written amiss in his previous books. The best of men need continually to confess their errors..." C. H. Spurgeon
Discerning Believer wrote:Calvinist do not aka. as you call it, regeneration with being saved. Regeneration is regeneration, justification is justification, sanctification is sanctification and glorification is glorification.The question is still on the floor, can an unregenerate person repent of sin by his own power and free-willWhat sayest thou?
The question is still on the floor, can an unregenerate person repent of sin by his own power and free-will
What sayest thou?
Titus 34 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Also a quick comment about religious "freedom" under the Puritans have you ever heard of the Mary Dyer and the relgious freedom she experience in Boston June 1, 1660?
Now about repentance...don't you pay attention? It is the very Spirit of God who CONVICTS of sin and what sinner under the CONVICTION of the HOLY SPIRIT would be unable to repent? While it is true sinners left to themselves won't BUT THEY AREN'T
Michael Hranek wrote:DBWhy??? From what some professing to be Calvinists tell me they are regenerated (aka saved) before and apart from any personal repentance or faith and give the impression that any kind of repentance and faith must be works salvation.
The question is still on the floor, can an unregenerate person repent of sin by his own power and free-will in light of Romans 8:7-8? I'll quote the verse for you.
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Discerning Believer wrote:Everywhere you have Arminianism, you have totalitarianism.Also when you get a chance, consider the question on repentance as it deals more with the original topic.
Also when you get a chance, consider the question on repentance as it deals more with the original topic.
REPENTANCE? Why??? From what some professing to be Calvinists tell me they are regenerated (aka saved) before and apart from any personal repentance or faith and give the impression that any kind of repentance and faith must be works salvation.
Back to totalitarianism ... I sure wouldn't have liked to live (it proabably would have been a brief life indeed) as a Baptist type believer in Calvin's Geneva. From what I gather they weren't real big on religious freedom there.