Women in authority in government and society should remain an exception rather than the rule for the simple reason that we need them to BE THERE in the home, raising the next generation.
Again, being unfamiliar with either the movie or play, from what little I know, it seems like Petruchio expected "a loving submission" without manifesting "a loving authority." It seems that he exploits "the profession of her willingness to submit" to him as well as "those actual acts of her submission." It kind of leaves out an essential part of Ephesians chapter five.
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:..." Eph 5:22-29
The Apostle has more to say to the husband than the wife...
Alan H wrote:Having never seen nor read this play by Shakespeare, is or was Katherine "the Shrew" to whom the title refers?
Shakespeare is very earthy, bawdy may be a better description, and I haven't read much of his work, but Shakespeare-isms pop up in language even today, and are still poignant.
BTW, I was thinking of you when I posted that part, knowing how you like to quote from Scripture that a woman's place is to be silent (in the church). But, Hey, why stop there?
I think you would like the movie - especially where Katherina agrees with Petruchio that the sun is the moon and moon is the sun. Smile.
Warning: the "Induction" for this play (omitted from the film) is a bit naughty. Shakespeare sneaks in bawdy stuff elsewhere as well.
[URL=http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?WorkID=tamingshrew&Act=5&Scene=2&Scope=scene&displaytype=print]]]The Taming of the Shrew Act V, Scene 2[/URL]
Katherine giving her speech on what she has learned by being tamed by Petruchio.
8. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10. But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.This is church Doctrine
(Ezekiel 22:30-31) And I sought for *a man* among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.
Paul to Timothy:
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve (doctrine of creation order).
"And Adam was not deceived (by the serpent), but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (doctrine of the Fall and its order).
These two doctrinal appeals, while they are used in Timothy for the church, are two confirming witnesses much broader in that they prove and confirm "God's social order" (instead of Democracy's "new world order") for male-female relations, since creation and fall. (See Knox's Blast Againt the Modern Regiment of Women, against Queen Mary).
And Sarah Palin is no Deborah.
Meanwhile, the other 'Sarah' of the holy scriptures (Peter exhorts) called Abraham "lord". That Sarah is so politically incorrect today, yet she is the model held up by the Holy Spirit in the inspired writing of the apostle as an example:
"For in this manner in the old time the holy women also...being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sarah obeyed Abraham calling him 'lord'.
Two Sarah's here, only one can be right as a model for Christians or God's social order since creation.
There are time when MEN refuse to lead, and the natural product of that is a Woman, right or wrong, who will take up leadership out of necessity. Although there are those women who crave leadership, I think they are fewer than we think, and I am not speaking of them.
Because men refuse to lead, which is a natural tendency, God will allow a woman to be in his position, like Deborah. Deborah was not God's first and desired choice, but it was because men were not leading. And it is God's last ditch effort to get a country to repent when he allows a woman to be in charge. I am against women outside of the home if there are children. And ultimately it is up to her head - her husband, weather or not he lets her take responsibilities away from home. But there is a bigger thing going on here in America. Women in leadership is not the issue. America repenting is! It is God's mercy that he will let a woman lead, because the alternative is total judgment. And men need to wake up and get back to leading their homes!!!
"And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Mat 20.27
Christiana wrote:Alan,What they need is THE gospel.Jesus' whole ministry taught that outward conformity (alone) to man-made rules served no purpose in true religion, but that a relationship with God is through the Spirit according to Truth. When it is necessary to give a message concerning the husband and wife roles, tone should be considered in the delivery.Grace and Truth must come together. The Believer will not reject such.
Jesus' whole ministry taught that outward conformity (alone) to man-made rules served no purpose in true religion, but that a relationship with God is through the Spirit according to Truth.
When it is necessary to give a message concerning the husband and wife roles, tone should be considered in the delivery.
Grace and Truth must come together. The Believer will not reject such.
I tried to edit the previous post of 10/1 12:28 p.m., but failed to do so in a timely manner. There were some words out of place.
Hopefully, the above corrections will make my previous post easier to read.
Thank you for the link on Complementarianism. That describes my belief, since it is Biblical.
My point is: the role of a woman is described in Scripture almost as a passing comment, and should be treated as such.
The born again Believer will submit to the Word! It is pointless to preach submission to the unredeemed. What they need is gospel.
When the Holy Spirit writes the law of God on the heart of the Believer, they do not have to be told "Thou shalt not steal, murder, ..whatever." The Holy Spirit convicts, brings into conformity to the law, sanctifies - that which an external code of conduct can never do.
Jesus' whole ministry was taught that outward conformity (alone) to man-made rules was served no purpose in true religion, but that a relationship with God is through the Spirit. He broke rules that they adhered to as a testimony of righteousness, - like healing on the Sabbath, etc., but served no purpose in worshipping a Holy God.
Only the indwelling Spirit would once again bring the intimacy of the relationship that Adam had before the fall.
This message can be presented by pastors when there is a situation that calls for it. Tone and delivery are key. Grace and Truth must come together. The Believer will not reject such.
CMT wrote:That's a beautiful Psalm. And it's completely compatible with Psalm 2, as it is with the rest of scripture.