Present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Alpha and Omega Ministries presents the Dividing Line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence. Your host is Dr. James White, Director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, you can call now by dialing 602-274-1360. That's 602-274-1360. Or if you're out of the Metro Phoenix dialing area, it's 1-888-550-1360. That's 1-888-550-1360. And now, with today's topic, here's James White. Well hello and welcome to The Dividing Line. My name is Sean Hahn and I am serving as the vice president of Alpha and Omega Ministries and I'm also privileged to be a deacon at Sovereign Grace Bible Church at 29th Avenue and Bethany Home Road. And sitting here in the studio with me is Simon Escobedo who is also a board member of Alpha and Omega Ministries. And Simon you attend Phoenix Reformed Baptist with Dr. White, is that right? That is correct and it's great to be here this morning. Yeah, let me ask you, it must be a difficult task that the Lord has given you to be with Dr. White day in and day out at church on a weekly basis. Is that somewhat of a challenge for you? Yes, it's the most interesting as people write the ministry and have much adoration for Dr. White. I think, yeah, he's a great guy. I wait, live with him, have fun with him. He's just a regular Joe, just like you and I. That's great. Well, it is our delight to be filling in for Dr. White today. Dr. White is currently in St. Louis. Is that correct, Rich? Actually, Rich has got his back to me. Rich is also with us. He's in our studio booth today taking calls and stuff for us. But I do believe that Dr. White is in St. Louis doing some preaching and I believe he was scheduled for a debate that got canceled for reasons that we're not totally clear on. Today our desire is to discuss the very important topic of saving faith. Saving faith. What is saving faith? And is it different from just plain old ordinary faith? Is salvation simply a matter of believing that Jesus is the Son of God? Or is there more to salvation than that? And what does it really mean to believe in Jesus Christ? If I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God come in the flesh, does that make me a Christian? Well, many people think so. You might be asking yourself, why on this apologetical radio program are we talking about saving faith? And I would say that a correct understanding of the nature of biblical saving faith is very much a part of defending the faith. And as a matter of fact, any time you and I study a particular doctrinal truth, you are strengthening your ability to give a more accurate answer for the hope that lies within you. As 1st Peter 3.15 says. And I think it's a guarantee that any non-believer you share Christ with has an errant view of faith or of saving faith. And therefore I think this study is going to be very relevant even for that most hardcore apologist out there. And theology and apologetics for me are very closely related, so closely related that I cannot see doing one without engaging in the others. Would you agree with that, Simon? Absolutely, Sean. One cannot provide a truly biblical apologetic or defense of biblical truth unless one is grounded in sound doctrine. They go hand in hand, and sadly, as you know, as others of the ministry know, many of the groups that we deal with, be they adherence to Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Marianism, you name it, If they are not biblically challenged with sound truth, sound doctrine, there's a lot of confusion, and that tends to be what most of the circles that are not well-grounded end up causing with these groups. In fact, the issue that we are discussing was one of the most frequently asked questions when we were at the Easter pageant, over and over and over again. In Mesa, the question was asked, what does it mean to believe in Christ? What did Paul mean when he said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved? On, I guess it was a week ago Friday, Marty Minto on his Straight Live talk show brought up this very issue. What does saving faith mean? And based upon the response that was given, all the callers that called in, the perspective was so grievous to me. It was disheartening because, quite frankly, most of the answers that were given were downright heretical. And so I think that this is an exciting topic to deal with this morning and extremely relevant. Definitely. And now this is a live program where we welcome your phone calls and today I would ask you that you hold your calls until after our first break. This will give us some time to get through some of the material that we have here and possibly during this first segment we might answer a lot of the calls that would come in. So anyhow, let's dig in. To begin this study you ask a simple question, what is faith? Let's back up and just ask before we get to saving faith, what is faith? Well, in a little dictionary that sits on my desk, it simply says that faith is belief without evidence. Belief without evidence. And that struck me as odd as I read that because I understand what real faith is. And when I read that I was really taken back and I had to think about that. And that definition that that little dictionary gave me is really what we would call blind faith. And this is a common misconception or a common conception and a misconception of faith today. As a matter of fact, I would even say that this kind of faith is a sinful faith and therefore it's not the kind of faith that would honor the God that we serve. It's not a true biblical faith. Simon would you you would you agree with this kind of faith this mindless faith is is prevalent today even in our churches Well, I think Sean certainly that caters to the misconception of some that faith is some kind of a blind leap in the dark it is a faith without certainty of faith seemingly defined as an entity in itself and And it is what I guess I could coin the phrase, it is what some might call wishful thinking. Now my daughter Abigail is in the studio with us this afternoon, and some time ago we had the opportunity of watching The Prince of Egypt. I don't know, John, did you get a chance to see that? Yeah, actually I think we own that film, if that's okay. It's a good video, yes it is. I don't want you to think I'm going in a direction that's going to cause problems here. More popular songs in that movie, from that score, is the song, If You Believe. And if you remember that song, basically, it's never said as to what you're to believe. Seemingly, the idea that's given is that if you have enough belief, then you can make things happen. Hence, the suggested definition of saving faith, or any kind of a faith, is simply that you might be able to make something happen, as opposed to the biblical definition that we're going to get into today that is based on something that has been promised to happen. Right, and there is a current teaching out there that is what we call the faith movement or faith teachers. There's this force of faith that's out there that exists almost as a God. But anyhow, the Bible views the conviction of faith as a known certainty. It's based upon the divine testimony of God who cannot lie. And therefore a true biblical faith is not a blind faith. Why? Well, because it's based upon the testimony and the evidence of God's Word, and hence it's utterly trustworthy. Real biblical faith knows nothing of the prevailing modern notion that faith is an enemy of knowledge. You have stated accurately, Sean. Biblical faith is not antithetical to knowledge. It is not an either-or dichotomy. It in no way is synonymous to the prevailing notion of rationalism. I've heard many individuals, in seeking to give a hope for the reason that lies within them, will basically offer this kind of a response. Well, you just got to have faith. Somehow suggesting that there's no objective testimony to which their faith rests. such as contrary to reason and such as contrary to even the natural faith that you and I experience every day. Now, as we were coming to the radio station today, we were driving in the car, Rich's car, and we were engaged in conversation. And believe it or not, each of us was experiencing some kind of faith each time A rich stepped on that gas and as he was driving we entrusted ourselves to Rich. There was a faith that was demonstrated and I guess you would agree that we recognize Rich as a competent driver. Yeah, we're putting our faith in man or in God when Rich is driving that car. Yeah, that's true. Good point. And as we approached the traffic light there was a faith being demonstrated that the brakes on the vehicle would stop our vehicle. It was a faith that was demonstrated by knowledge. We know mechanically the brakes will work. And it was a faith based on experience. We knew they had worked. So certainly there is a faith that is not irrational and it is not relative or subjective. In other words there are many that would say it's not so important as to what you believe but how you believe it. Objectivity is not an issue but sincerity and that is where they would focus. Right and sincerity becomes the overriding ultimate authority in the individual. If you are sincere then that is all that matters but that is not biblical thinking. Before we look at what saving faith is I want to briefly consider what saving faith is not. This is kind of how the Puritans would define things. They would say it is not this and here is what it is. So I would like to attempt to remove some of the common misconceptions. So what saving faith is not? Here it is. It's not merely, and I want to emphasize the word merely, it's not merely a belief in the truths of the Bible. For instance, saving faith does not, again, merely consist of believing that Jesus is the Son of God, that He was born of a virgin, that He lived a perfect life according to the law of God, that He was crucified as a substitute for sinners, that He was resurrected on the third day, ruling and reigning at the right hand of the Father, and is coming again You see, to simply believe in the facts of the gospel is to have what theologians call a historical faith. A historical faith. In other words, the person who has this kind of historical faith believes the truths of the Bible in the very same way and with the same degree of interest as any other historical fact. In other words, he would believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh as much as he would believe that George Washington was the first president of the United States of America. This person simply does not dispute or deny the facts and thus the name historical faith. It's purely an intellectual apprehension of the truth. And some characters in the Bible that demonstrate this kind of faith well are the demons. In James 2.19 it says, you believe that God is one, you do well. The demons also believe and shudder. Yes, even the demons are monotheists. But despite the notitia element of their faith, there is no trusting in Christ. Mike and I played on this text some time ago, the Greek term there, shudder, frisasson. Despite the fact that they know, they believe, they're monotheists. They believe that there is only one God and it causes them to tremble. Yet this in and of itself does not deliver them from their peril. Yeah I would even go so far as to say that the demons are better than even being a monotheist. I'd give them more credit than that and say they're good Calvinists. They're good Calvinists. They're better Calvinists than we are. As far as the Notitia element goes. That's exactly right. Well anyway, consequently their outward behavior, these individuals, is usually modified so that they begin to look like Christians. The problem is that their outward, actually, I've got the wrong note page here. Let me continue here. The individual that has this historical faith believes that the Bible and all that it teaches is true. And this kind of faith, this kind of historical faith in and of itself is not genuine saving faith. That's the key here. Now there's another type of faith that we come across in the Bible besides just historical faith that is not a saving faith. It is called a temporary faith. A temporary faith. Someone who has a temporary faith has a knowledge of the truth and he reacts to the truth in such a way that He experiences a degree of natural emotions and affections that are externally consistent with their confession. And as a result of experiencing what we call the common grace of God, this individual, they could be in our churches, they could be sitting in our pews. doing the things that we do, and they're coming under the common grace of God. And as a result of this, their natural and their rational and their moral powers, they experience this heightening, although it's a shallow, it's a superficial heightening and an excitement toward the truth. And consequently, this outward behavior is modified so they begin to look like a Christian. And you and I can't tell the difference. These people look like you and I. They do the same things. They say the same things. The problem is that these outward conforming actions involve no supernatural change of the heart. It is a professed faith, Sean. It is not a possessed faith. And I think if we were to try to look at the New Testament and see where this is most clearly demonstrated, it would be in our Lord's parable of the soils, the four soils. Remember that text that the Lord demonstrates there? There are three kinds of soil that are specifically stated not to provide any long-lasting fruit. The word is sown, and either because Satan has taken away the seed, or the plant gets scorched by the sun, or the plant gets choked by the thorns. Ultimately, in all three of those soils, there was no fruit. They produced no fruit. Some of them produced seemingly some indication that the seed had found root, but it was only temporary. It was only a matter of time before various circumstances would expose the fact that it hadn't truly gotten to the bottom, and only one soil is presented in that passage that actually bared fruit, and that was the one that was genuine. Right, so those first three kinds of soils there in that parable are good illustrations of what we're calling a temporary faith. And there are some individuals in the Bible Actually, there are probably many, but a few that I can think of that have this temporary faith are Judas Iscariot. You know, he saw the miracles, he handled the very Son of God, he was there, he understood certain things, he realized that this was the truth. But yet, and the disciples were fooled by him. He was able to walk with them. He might have been able to carry out miracles. He might have been able to cast out demons and do certain things. I think it's interesting, Sean, if I can interject at that point. When the Lord said that one of you would betray me, they didn't all say Judas. That's right. There was no finger pointing at Judas. There was no indication at all. What was the response of the disciples? Lord, is it I? Right, yeah. So he certainly had them all fooled. That's right and that's the point. From our perspective a lot of times with an individual that has a temporary fate we cannot see their heart so we don't know. They're pumping out good works that line up with what the scriptures would be but we cannot see their heart but ultimately time will tell usually for these individuals they will eventually fall away. Simon Magus is another example and another character named Demas in the New Testament that all exhibit these characteristics of temporary faith. So having a faith that merely believes the truths of the Bible and responds to them in such a way that it causes these individuals to reform themselves, external reformation and some sort of external conformity to the gospel, that kind of a faith is not a faith that justifies the individual before God. Ultimately, the knowledge of God, Christ, and the Scriptures that this historical believer, or even the temporary believer has for that matter, it's divorced from any real heart acquaintance. So anyhow, those are two examples of faith-faiths that we see in the Bible that are non-saving faiths. A historical faith and a temporary faith. So what is saving faith? What does saving faith involve? And what is it about faith that makes it a saving faith? Well, theologians say that there are three elements, or three parts, to real saving faith. And they are notitia, which we've hinted to already. It's called knowledge. Notitia is the Latin. The second one is called assensus in the Latin, or assent in English. And fiducia, the third aspect is fiducia, and we're familiar with that word. It means trust. So first off, saving faith is based upon having a knowledge of the truth. You cannot have faith, you cannot have saving faith, without a knowledge of the truth. You cannot have faith in something that you don't know. And so obviously, one must believe that the testimony and the evidence of God's word. And we've kind of mentioned this earlier when we made the point that one may have a knowledge of the truth without having saving faith. But here's the key. One may not have saving faith without having a knowledge of the truth. And so knowledge forms or is the cognitive foundation or the basis for saving faith. And at the same time we must remember that this knowledge in and of itself is not saving faith. And as we mentioned earlier, many Christians walk around today with this knowledge and believe that they're saved because they have the knowledge. and they understand these things. Paul says in 2nd Thessalonians 2.10 that men must love the truth in order to be saved. They must love the truth to be saved and in 2nd Timothy 2.25 Paul says again repentance leads to the knowledge of the truth. Yeah I'd like to add a comment on that second passage particularly Sean that Paul is presenting there. Our hearts are in natural rebellion to God's truth. I mean, that's just a given. Man by nature, his unregenerate state, will naturally reject God's truth. And Paul's plea here is that he was praying that some might be granted repentance, so that they might not only come to a discovery of the truth, but as well a knowledge and acceptance of it. And so I think that's a key issue in making sure that we understand what we're talking about here. That's right, and John, the Apostle John explains the reason why he wrote his gospel in John 20 and verse 31. He says that these things have been written, and there's the idea, they've been written, there's the knowledge aspect, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing, you may have life in his name. So he says, I've given you this truth, this body of information, this These things that you might know that you might become saved. And so the believer knows the truth and he believes it as such. And yet the believer does not stop there. He experiences a further element of saving faith, which is what we've called an ascent or a census. An ascent, according to the doctor Robert Raymond, he says it refers to the conviction that the knowledge that one has of Christ is true. and that the provisions of the gospel correspond exactly to one's spiritual needs. So we could say, based on what he is saying here, that assent is cognition passed into conviction. Let me say that again. Assent is cognition passed into conviction. The believer knows the truth and he becomes convicted that this truth is most appropriate for him. And so saving faith is based upon both a knowledge of the truthfulness of the Word of God and a conviction about those truths. That they are most essential for his soul. He must have them. He becomes exercised about those truths. The believer is convinced that the truths he sees in scripture are going to meet his very deepest spiritual needs. And so the believer who has saving faith ultimately embraces the infallibility and the excellency of the scriptures. The scriptures become the believer's ultimate authority for life and godliness. And now real saving faith not only believes the truth and ascends to it as such, but it goes further. It doesn't just stop there. And this is really the key that we're striving to in this lesson today. I think, Sean, if I can kind of throw a comment in here. What we're getting to now is the actual trusting aspect of faith. We've dealt with knowledge, we've dealt with a census or the ascent to what has been demonstrated, hence we have dealt with the mind, we have dealt with the emotions, and now the volitional aspect of faith, that which actually exhibits trust and a movement of the will, I think this is probably one of the most deficient aspects of faith present in many circles. Now you and I were talking some time ago, both of us come from circles where this aspect has been ignored and you know exactly what I'm talking about. There are many that promote what we might call decisionism, which merely is an intellectual assent to the truth. In essence, what they have done is switch the object of saving faith. They have switched the object of faith that is present in the Gospel message, whereas the New Testament presents the object of our faith in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. So the facts of the gospel then becomes the object of the faith instead of the person of Christ himself. This is not to say that he is the object of our faith in spite of, obviously, the knowledge. We cannot know who we're trusting unless we know who he is truly. But it is to say that he is, in and of himself, the object of our faith, and not merely some facts about him. Now, if I can deviate just a second, I'd like for our listeners to perhaps take a look at John chapter 2, verses 23 through 25, where I think this is kind of demonstrated, in which a person can have knowledge, there can even be some emotion behind that knowledge, they can quote-unquote believe Some things about Christ but truly not be saved and this is most clearly demonstrated in this passage in verse 23 of John's gospel John chapter 2 verse 23 we read now when he that is Christ was in Jerusalem at the Passover during the feast many Not some, not a few, but many, it says, believed in His name, observing His signs, which He was doing. But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men. And because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man. Now, I kind of coined a phrase here that I hope doesn't offend too many people. But I think clearly seen in this passage you have believers who are still children of the devil. These men had faith. They had seen the miracles. They no doubt had heard the objective testimony. They had heard the Lord minister the public ministry of our Lord. Yet all that we can see as demonstrated in their belief is based upon those things. They had a noticia element of their faith. There was some knowledge. Their emotions were driven. But that was all. Sad to say, Sean, if many of these men were attending some of our churches today, they would have been the first to have walked out on the first chorus of Just As I Am. They would have been the first to sign the card, raise the hand, you name it. They would have been the first to have been led into the prayer room. It would have been just a matter of time when they would have been pronounced as true converts. Right, you remember the text, I can't put my finger on it, but our Lord says, many will come to me in that day and say, Lord, Lord, they have the terminology down, they have a certain knowledge there, Lord, Lord, did we not cast out demons in your name? Do we not do many miracles in your name? And he says, and I will say unto you, depart from me, you who, workers of iniquity. And their salvation, these people coming before the Lord in the last day is based upon the things that they did. this action that they were involved in, did we not do these things? And he says, no, I'm going to say, depart from me. What a scary thing to realize. And these people, they're trusting in what they've done. There was no personal relationship either in the account that you're suggesting there and the one that is presented here. And why does the Lord not entrust himself to them? because theirs was a spurious faith. It was something less than saving faith. They had not reached the end of themselves and their sin, so that they might abandon themselves to Christ. The text says, He knew what was in man. They did not want Him. Theirs was not a desire to take up the cross and follow Him. They were only interested in the miracles in John chapter 6, who had followed the Lord because of the feeding of the 5,000. They were after the bread. They were after the miracles, but at the end of that passage, when Christ mandates that there must be this belief and a continuance in belief and that ultimately this is the divine act of God. It says in John 666 that many of His disciples forsook Him and followed Him no more. They did not want Him. They did not want to take up their cross and follow Him. So it is this final aspect of faith that abandons self so as to embrace, trust, flee, and follow Christ no matter the cost. Let me finish with this, Sean. The final aspect of faith, which is most understood, when one realizes that this particular kind of aspect of faith that we're talking about is supernatural. And as folk who are part of the Reformed circle, we recognize that faith is a divine gift. And I think this is one of the reasons why this aspect of faith is so ignored and so misunderstood in many other circles. It is a supernatural faith that is not contrary to reason or knowledge. The objective testimony is already there. But it is contrary to experience. It is not natural to believe something you have not seen or experienced. That is what separates this aspect of faith from mere intellectual assent, commonly referred to as decisionism. One can believe some facts about Christ and his Gospel. One can even show some great emotion, tears, you name it. But only the supernatural faith which Scripture affirms as the divine gift of God is able to embrace Christ as Lord and Savior, a Lord and Savior they have never seen. It is this aspect of faith which abandons self so as to have Christ, a faith which is empty, having absolutely nothing. to commend to God, seeking only to grasp and embrace the merciful hands of a loving Savior. It also is a faith that is committed. There is no such thing as a non-committal saving faith. Nothing is more important to the sinner than having, resting, and trusting in his beloved Lord and Savior. This faith is ready to deny self, take up cross, and follow the Savior. We're coming up to a station break, folks. We hope you'll stay with us. We'll be right back. We'll be taking your calls the second half of the show. Welcome back to the Dividing Line. My name is Shawn Hahn and I am sitting in the studio here with Simon Escobedo and we are both members, board members of Alpha and Omega Ministries and James White is out of town in St. Louis preaching the gospel somewhere to some people. and we're glad that you're with us today and we're talking about saving faith, a very important topic and it is definitely related to the Christian life and related to apologetics and everything else as we need for Christianity. Simon, before the break you had mentioned decisionalism and I wanted to just ask you before we get back to our lesson, what do you mean by decisionalism and maybe our listeners aren't quite familiar with what that means and so can you elaborate on that just for a second? Yes, basically, Sean, some have even coined the phrase decisional regeneration. It is the idea that basically a person has been presented the facts of the gospel. And then as a result of that, they're able now to make a decision. And that in and of itself is what is sufficient and what they would call all that is necessary for saving faith. In fact, if I can give you a little anecdotal here. Some years ago, I was out at the Mormon conference. And we were witnessing to an individual out there. And this individual had stayed long after many of the other Mormons had left. She had sat in on all the conversations. And finally, she had her opportunity now to present some questions to us. And we spent quite a bit of time with her. Went through all the various issues. And by the time it was through, I was just heartbroken, as you have had the same experience, to have been able to not only expose some of the errors within her own system, but accurately present, hopefully, Well, as I was relaying this story to a co-worker who is a believer, I remember he was just sitting on my every word so excited and so forth and finally when I concluded it, this is what he told me. It was humorous but also sad at the same time. And you know what's coming. He said, well, Simon, did you get her to make a decision? And I just looked at him and I said, you know, salvation is of the Lord. All I can do is present the truth of the gospel. And here he was. And he was ignorant of the issues. I'm sure he didn't by that mean something that was heretical in and of itself without actually examining the issues. But that basically is the idea, Sean. You presented some facts. you know, a person goes into a restroom, he's got his little four spiritual laws, presents something to the guy in the bathroom, and comes out shouting, yeah, I just let somebody to the Lord, you know. That's basically behind decisions. And their assurance of salvation would be based in the fact that they made a decision, or that they walked an aisle, or they checked a box, or raised their hand, or prayed a prayer. Their salvation would be based in that thing that they did, rather than the person in the work of Jesus Christ. Absolutely they're not resting primarily in something that Christ has done or in him himself right but on something they have done and if you were to question them perhaps let's say you're dealing with an individual who like James 2 or 1st John 2 has a said faith but doesn't really have a real faith and their lives are inconsistent with their profession and you confront them about that. And you expose the fact that the nature of saving faith is demonstrative. Basically what you're going to get in response to that. Well, I remember because I've had this many of the loved ones in my circle have said this. Well, I remember when I was seven years old and I cried my eyeballs out on the knees of my grandma who just had shared with me that. And I remember trusting in Jesus as my savior. And how dare you try to insinuate that that was less than sincere. Right. Well before we forget I'd like to give our phone numbers out at area code 602-274-1360 or if you're calling long distance it's 1-888-550-1360. By the way Sean let me just say this at the break our president of Alpha Omega Ministries Mr. Richard Pierce came in and informed us that our beloved Marty Minto had been listening to the program. Marty who? Marty Minto. Do you know the name? A great theologian of the faith. And Marty had said that I guess I had inadvertently cited the show incorrectly. I guess I called it Straight Live. It must have been nervous. I guess so. Nervous or something. But Marty, I apologize. It is Straight Talk Live. What is it? The informative voice. Right. Alright, well back to our discussion. We are trying to drive the point home that real saving faith is not just a matter of believing the truth and assenting to it, but it goes further and it receives, real saving faith receives and rests in Christ. This is the crucial element of saving faith that we call fiducia or trust. And this is what it is to truly believe in Christ. Jerome Zankias, he's an old dead theologian, he says, in saving faith there is an active receiving of the truth of God and the God of truth. He says faith embraces Christ. And he similarly maintains that the act of faith embraces not only the revealed truth concerning Christ, but, and here's the key, Christ together with all his benefits. So real saving faith embraces not just the facts of Christ, but the person of Christ. And may I say, Sean, the whole person of Christ. Not a divided Christ simply embracing Christ as Savior, but not as Lord. No receiving and resting in Christ is resting in the biblical and undivided Christ and his work in our behalf. That's right. The true believer goes to the fountain of living waters, and by faith, this individual, he turns to Christ. He desires Christ. He receives Christ. He relies upon Christ. He surrenders himself to Christ. He takes refuge in Christ, and he desires to be united to Christ forever. All of which, all of these things, this turning, desiring, receiving, relying, all of these things are characteristic of believing and trusting and resting in Christ. This is the third element of saving faith, known as trust or in the Latin fiducia. And Robert Raymond, again I've quoted him earlier, he said this is where the sinner cognitively, effectively and volitionally transfers all reliance for pardon, righteousness and cleansing away from himself. and his own resources, in complete and total abandonment to Christ, whom he joyfully receives, and upon whom alone he rests entirely for his salvation. And so it is this receiving and resting act of faith that is the justifying and saving act of faith. We must receive and take hold of him by faith. Now, it looks like we might have a caller online. Is that true? Yes, we do. Let's take line one, if you will. Hello, is this Bill? Yes, it is. Bill, what kind of questions do you have for us today, Bill? My question is, what is the relationship of predestination and saving faith? Okay, thank you for your question. What is the relationship between predestination and faith? Well, predestination has to do with something that God did in eternity past, and faith has to do with something God does in time. It is the bringing about of what God has eternally decreed. Yeah? It's the means that God uses to bring him to himself. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but How are they related? One is something that's eternal, and the other one is something that occurs in time. If I may say to the caller, I think that faith, as we've been presenting, is the inevitable result of predestination. Nowhere is this more clearly stated than in John's Gospel, chapter 6, verses 37 through 44. Verse 37 says, All that the Father gives me will come to me. Hence, there are a group of people that have been given by the Father to the Son. And what does the Son say about those people? They will come to Me. Now, obviously, in this passage, coming is being used metaphorically there to believing. And in verse 44, He makes it very clear that no one can come unless the Father who sent Him has drawn him. So, the connection between faith and predestination is just that, that God has chosen a people and they will inevitably come. The faith that they exercise is the result of them being chosen before the foundations of the world. It is the gift of God, according to Ephesians 2, 8 and 9. And hence, that is the relationship that they bear with each other. Does that answer your question? It answers my question. Okay, Bill. Well, thanks for calling today. We have Jennifer. Jennifer, are you with us? What kind of questions do you have, Jennifer? Are you putting me on the spot, Jennifer? Yeah. That's good to hear you. Hi, are you trying to say that faith goes from a mental ascent to a reality? Is that what you're saying? Well, I don't understand your question. If you're suggesting that am I, then are we stating that faith is a process? That mental ascent isn't enough. It has to be more than that. Oh, exactly. I think we demonstrated that from the passage in James where you have the demons who also believe. There is a there is an orthodox belief that is evident among the demons They are monotheist and as a my brother stated here, they know the Bible even better than we do They are better Calvinist if you will but that mental understanding of the truth is insufficient in and of itself to deliver them from their peril And many men today, even in our reformed circles, love the truth. They love the doctrine. They love to debate. They love to flesh this stuff out without loving the person of the doctrine, who is Jesus Christ. Right, you can't divorce the person of Christ from the message about Christ. But as I stated earlier, The object of our faith is not the gospel message. The object of our faith is the person of Jesus Christ within the gospel message. Do you understand what I'm saying? I see. So a person can believe the facts of the gospel message and hence place their faith in those facts, but that in and of itself will not save them. There is a personal object to our faith. It is abandoning ourselves in the person of Jesus Christ. Jennifer, many people today are caught up in the notion of faith, and having faith, and talking about faith, and speaking of faith as if it were some sort of a God in and of itself, and what they're missing, Jennifer, is the object of faith. Faith's object is Christ and what He has done. That's where our faith must go to the object of itself, which is Christ. Well, we thank you for calling, Jennifer. Thank you for being with us today. Let's continue, Simon. Let me add a footnote to what Jennifer had just asked. There's a classic text that we have already mentioned, of course, Acts 16, 31. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. There definitely is presented here the personal object to where our belief and faith rests. It isn't a person. And so this, again, this receiving and resting part of faith is what we're driving at. This is the key. This is the justifying and the saving action of faith, where it takes hold of Christ. And we must take hold of Christ by faith. As John 1.12 says, as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name. And there's another passage that I think is excellent. In fact, if you were to ask most Christians, give me a definition of faith. Immediately, most people, in fact, when I was going through this yesterday with my family, my daughter Abigail, who had learned this verse and learned it well, gave me the definition before I could work through it. And that's from Hebrews chapter 11, verses 1 through 3. And let me just make some casual comments there. We have in verse 1, now, faith is the substance of things hoped for and of things not seen. And verse 3 says, by faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. And I think this is an excellent passage, Sean, that clearly underscores for us those three elements of faith that we've been discussing. That is, notitia, you can see that in verse 3, by faith we understand, there's the knowledge aspect, that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. There is the assensus or the assent to what has been demonstrated. Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for. And then there is the evidence or the confidence, the trust that we were talking about of those things not seen. So this text not only tells us what faith is, but the subsequent passage that we have in the Hall of Faith demonstrate what faith does. That's right. Let's take a quick break. We'll be back in a moment, folks. Hang on. Oh mi- Welcome back to The Dividing Line. Again, my name is Sean Hann and I am in the studio here with Simon Escobedo and we are filling in the large chair of James White, Dr. White. Very, very large. Yeah. Anyhow, today we're talking about saving faith, a very important topic for Christianity and for apologetics. And Simon, you were just commenting right before the break on Hebrews, the passage there in front of you. Well, I think that in verse one through three, we have an excellent definition of faith as I went through that before the break. And as I was mentioning, as we went to the break, the text, specifically that passage, not only tells us what faith is, but then provides for us an absolutely incredible demonstration of what faith does. You have all of the various characters that are set before us there, which underscores the fact that this faith, again we're talking about a supernatural faith here, a divine gift given by God, is demonstrative and nowhere is that more clearly seen than all the great heroes of the faith. By faith, so and so did. By faith, so and so did. All throughout that there is the clear evidence that that faith was indeed genuine. So by the grace of God, we would say that the believer, he's enabled to see that he's a guilty, law-condemned sinner, having nothing to offer in his defense. And simultaneously, he's enabled to see Christ, or in Christ, he's able to see that in Christ, A perfect righteousness exists for the cleansing and for the justification of his soul. Jesus Christ, he becomes to us that pearl of great price. In 1 Corinthians 1.30, the Apostle Paul says, Christ Jesus becomes to us, listen to these phrases, Christ becomes to us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. And before I forget, I will mention that Dr. White will be back in the studios next week with us. So he's off gallivanting this week. He'll be back with us next week. I had to get that out so I didn't forget. So anyhow, the sinner who has this genuine saving faith, he not only has a knowledge of the truth, the notitia, And he's not only convicted about the truth, that it's appropriate for him, but he also goes further. And here's the key. He receives and he rests in Christ for his complete and total salvation. He trusts in him alone for his justification and for his sanctification and ultimately for his glorification. The sinner wholly leans upon Christ and all his promises that are offered to him in the gospel. And because in Christ he sees an all-sufficient, suitable, and able Savior. And hence we would say that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and because of Christ alone. And therefore to God alone be the glory. And so, another aspect of this that's, you know, it's hard when we work through a lesson like this to mention everything about it, but there's another aspect of this that in receiving Christ, it's not something that you and I do just one time in our life. In other words, there's this notion out there that, well, I walked down an aisle back in 74 and I received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. And I received him just that one time in my life. But it's not something that we do just once in our life. It's something that we do often, daily. When your feet hit the floor in the morning, you should be entering back into Christ with your mind and you're receiving him again and you're renewing your faith. It's something that goes on constantly. Right. It's not simply a decision of the moment, though that is involved. There is this immediate expression of faith that justifies the sinner. But the faith itself, the nature of which, is the pattern of a life, Sean. Right. Paul says that just shall live by faith. It is a way of life and it's a continual process of renewing our faith. You had given me a quote here from a brackle that I thought was absolutely excellent. If I may indulge our listeners by reading this, I think it would certainly drive home what we're trying to communicate. He notes here, he says, this receiving of him, that is Christ, is there, that is the believers, daily food, and therefore they repeat it over and over again. Not so much with the objective to be included in the covenant of grace, but with the objective to be more and more intimately united with Christ. They are motivated by their daily failures to do so, as they perceive that without Him they cannot approach unto God. The desire for rest and inner peace continually drives them out to Him, who alone is their peace. All this, however, is superseded by love, which also continually drives them out to Him. They are also subject to many periods of darkness, spiritual desertion, strife, and infirmities of faith. Since there is no restoration outside of Christ, they time and again return and cleave to Him, repeatedly renewing the exercise of faith. Since the believer's spiritual life is dependent upon continually receiving Christ, who is his life, and just as a person will succumb when he is not able to breathe, so the believer will succumb if by faith he is not able to bring Christ into his heart or his heart to Christ. This constant repetition of believing and receiving may be observed especially in the Psalms and in the Song of Solomon." Now he concludes by saying, Behold, such is the clear distinction between a temporal and a true believer. The one functions outside the realm of his heart and does not move beyond speculating about these matters. He proceeds in an external fashion, having experienced only an imaginary change. The true believer, however, engages himself with his heart. He has dealings with Jesus and finds strength and life in the continual receiving of him. Yeah, and that's a great point to emphasize, is this continual receiving him. It is a pattern of life. It is something that we must think about often. You know, Sean, if I can add a footnote to that. I found it interesting that, you know, there are many dictionaries, obviously, that have various definitions of faith. But check out this definition provided by the Oxford English Dictionary. This is under their theological definition of faith. Now, this is the Oxford English Dictionary. Note what it says. That kind of faith, this is specifically talking about saving faith, is distinctively called saving or justifying faith, by which, in the teaching of the New Testament, a sinner is justified in the sight of God. This is variously defined by theologians, but there is general agreement in regard to it as a conviction practically operative on the character and the will, and thus opposed to the mere intellectual assent of religious truth, sometimes called speculative faith. Now I don't know about you, Sean, but I think there are a lot of theologians that need to get Oxford English Dictionary and check out that definition of faith. Excellent, yeah. Very good. Yeah, it is something that as Abraham said it is the true believer engages himself with his heart and as the Apostle Paul in the book of Philippians talks about All of those things in which he could have entrusted himself to he lays out in Philippians 3 and verse starting at about verse 3 where he says I put no confidence in the flesh, although he might have a right to do this. And then he lists out all of his self-righteous things that he could trust in, all the things that he's accomplished and done in his life. And then in verse 7 he says, But whatever things were gained to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. More than that, he says, I count them all to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish. So that I may gain Christ and may be found in Him. Not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ. The righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. That's the key and I cannot say enough about saving faith. Something that most Christians today are not very well versed in and it's a sad case. It's a sad tale in the church today. Absolutely, Shawn. Excellent opportunity, Shawn, to be here with you this afternoon. I trust that we have been a blessing to our listeners and the truth that we've shared with them will challenge them into further study. Yeah, and I would pray that you will be back with us again next week when Dr. White is with us. And may your prayer be, Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief. Have a great week and God bless. The Dividing Line has been brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries. If you'd like to contact us, call us at 602-973-0318 or write us at P.O. Box 37106, Phoenix, Arizona 85069. You can also find us on the World Wide Web at aomin.org. That's A-O-M-I-N.O-R-G, where you'll find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates, and tracks. Join us again next Saturday afternoon at 2 p.m. for The Dividing Line.