Timothy 2.15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Alpha and Omega Ministries presents the Dividing Line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence. Your host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, you can call now by dialing 508-0960. That's 508-0960. And now, with today's topic, here's James White. And good afternoon, Phoenix. James White is teaching in Tucson, and my name is Rich Pierce. I am sitting in for James today, and I am on my soapbox. I have listened to a great deal of discussion over the last couple of weeks regarding the Mormon Church, and today we're going to talk about the Mormon Church, and we're going to talk about witnessing to Mormons. And some may not understand in our valley, because they are new, that Maricopa County, last time I heard, had the fourth largest concentration of Mormons per capita in the world. Folks, if you're going to live in Maricopa County, you're going to run into Mormons. You're going to encounter them, and they're going to have some things to say. At Alpha Omega Ministries, we have a philosophy in our witnessing to whatever group we're dealing with that you don't get caught up in sidetracks. You don't get caught up in other issues that are not relevant to witnessing to Mormons or to whatever group you're dealing with. You stay focused, and you stay on target. You stay focused on the fact that you're there to share the gospel. And witnessing to Mormons, one of the easiest things that can happen to a Christian, one of the most frustrating things, is that you can get caught up in side issues. You can get caught up and talk about polygamy for hours. Where does it get you? What did it do? How did that share the gospel? How did that lead them to the true Jesus Christ? You can get caught up in the Adam-God doctrine. I've met folks that stand outside of the Mormon temple with other groups and they just insist Mormons believe that Adam is God. And yet, that was an old teaching that was abandoned years ago. If you want to talk about Brigham Young believing that Adam was God, okay, we can talk about Brigham Young believing that Adam was God. But Mormons today don't believe that. You want to get caught up in white salamanders? You want to get caught up in all kinds of scandal and Mark Hoffman bombing in Utah and all that other stuff. The whole nine yards you want to talk about what's called the Solomon Spaulding thesis and that somebody else authored the Book of Mormon besides Joseph Smith. You can get wrapped up in all of these kinds of issues and it can go on and on and on for hours. And it will get you nowhere. How much witnessing have you actually done? The Apostle Paul tells us that we are to keep our eye on the prize as we run the race. And when you're sharing the gospel, that's one thing you must do. You know, folks, I could get into rumor mongering and anecdotal information. The information that I know and have learned over the last 12, 13 years now in witnessing to Mormons, I could sit here and I could rail on the Mormon church. I could just go on and on and on. I could rip it to shreds. I don't understand how that gets anybody any closer to the gospel. How does talking about a Mormon bishop who gave a woman counsel to divorce her husband, and I'm not saying this doesn't happen regularly, but how does spending our time on the air talking about that and counseling her to divorce her husband because he left the church How does that further the gospel? If I wanted to, like I said, I could rip on the Mormon church and I could rip it to shreds. But that's not what Alpha Omega Ministries is about. And when we train people to go out with us to Mesa, to the Easter pageant, when we train people to go up to Salt Lake City, which I'll be leading the group this next time, it'll be the first Saturday in October, When we train people and teach them how to share their faith, that's what we teach them to do, and that is to share their faith. How to stay off of the side issues, stay on track, and focus on the essentials of the faith. We're here to share God's Word, we stand on the Word of God, and we want to spend as much time sharing His Word with Mormons as we possibly can. and so that's what i'm going to dedicate today's show to doing and uh... unfortunately i ran into a little snafu here at the studio when i got here but that's okay we can work around it that's uh... something we can take care of i was kinda hoping to have a little bit of an interactive session today with you all uh... to have you log on to the internet and as i'm logging on i'm on our website and i'm telling and talking about our website you can start to see the kind of information that we have on that website. And I'm going to actually talk you through it blindly here. I can't get onto the website right now because I can't dial up, but that's okay. If you have internet access, I'd like you to dial up www.aomin.org right now. And when you get there, write this down, because I know your computer doesn't go that fast unless you've got a T1 line. But when you get there, you're going to see the apologetics menu on our main menu there. Click on the apologetics menu. And then when you're there, click on Mormonism. And there you're going to see a vast array of various, you're going to see debates, discussions, and topical things. You're going to see an address of the 17 points of the true church, and you're going to see the 100-verse memorization system. That's right, folks. Today we're going to talk about 100 verses. We'll probably never get to them all in one day, but we're going to go through this listing here, and you're going to find out. You can print this out on your computer. You can print this out, and it is a tremendously valuable tool to being able to be ready to give an answer when the time comes to give that answer. Now, as we talk about verses and sharing with Mormons, these aren't the only verses that we're going to be talking about, because I want to hear from you today. 508-0960. If you're out of the Phoenix area, 1-888-TALK-960. That's 1-888-TALK-960. And again, here in the Valley, it's 508-0960. Call me up. Let's talk about the verses that you might want to talk about. If you're not sure, if you've had a Mormon throw a Bible verse at you and you're stumped by it, let's talk about it. And let's talk about how you can properly interpret what they're saying and understand what they're saying and best Answer them. Give them that answer of the hope that is within you. And so one of the things that we often hear right off the bat is a discussion when folks sit back and go, wow, 100 verses. How in the world can I memorize 100 verses? That's just a lot of work. Well, that's probably the most active word you could use there in that the word work is necessary when studying God's Word. It's one of those four-letter words that we don't like to do in America. Work. Well, we need to sit down and we need to open up our Bible and we need to memorize these verses. We need to know them. And I have to tell you, I have found these verses valuable to have at my disposal at any time, whether I'm carrying a Bible or not. in sharing the gospel with someone, sharing God's truth, whether I'm at work, whether I'm in whatever situation, and I don't just have to be witnessing to a Mormon. There are many groups out there that, I mean, just regular Philistines out there that don't believe that the Bible is God's Word. They don't believe that the Bible is just a bunch of myths. And when you start sharing from God's Word what it has to say about itself, It can be a powerful thing, because we need to understand, we need to be ready to understand that the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. That's from Hebrews 4.12. When you think about what that has to say, that is a powerful, powerful verse. Now, did you notice something? I quoted from the King James Version of the Bible. Now, we've got a book called The King James Only Controversy, and some in the King James camp seem to think that we don't believe that the King James is God's Word, and nothing could be farther from the truth. We don't believe it's the only translation that is valuable for a believer to use today. In fact, we believe that the King James English can be very difficult for folks to use. But in this situation, if you're going to communicate with a Mormon, one of the things that you need to understand is that part of their articles of faith is where they believe the Bible insofar as it is translated correctly. And when they say the Bible, they mean the King James Version. And so unless you want to sit there and have a big old discussion about the translation you're using, and sometimes that's valuable, and why you're using that translation and why that translation is trustworthy, you'll use the King James and it can cut through to an acceptable version for them in communicating with them. If you're not using the King James, I recommend the New American Standard. It is close to the King James in wording, and if you've memorized your scriptures in New American Standard, oftentimes they won't bother, they won't see the difference in the language, because it is so close. The only difference is that it's been brought up to more of a a modern vernacular in how it expresses itself. But understand, it is not a paraphrase of the King James, the New American Standard is an excellent translation in the modern-day vernacular. When we talk about the authority of God's Word, one of the most important verses we need to understand is a passage that talks about or addresses directly the issue of whether or not we should add to God's Word. Oftentimes what happens is we find ourselves, we're doing an outreach visit or something like that, and we find ourselves sitting in front of a Mormon in their home, and they're talking about the Book of Mormon. And they're talking about the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price and that we need modern-day prophets, etc., etc., etc. And we suddenly say, well, wait a minute. The Book of Revelation, it says that you're not to add to the words of this book. All these curses are going to happen. And the Mormon comes back and says, well, that's actually just for the book of Revelation. Guess what? The Mormon's right. Contextually, the Book of Revelation didn't necessarily fall into that place in our order as we look at the 66 books of the Bible. Now, the thing we need to understand is we need to take a little bit of a different approach, because a lot of times people think they can just cut to the chase with a handful of verses and they can slay the Mormon theology real quick, and it doesn't work that way. Mormons have been well-trained. and they know what verses to give you an answer for, and they know how to deal with you on, shall we say, the average level. Again, as I said in a broadcast back in May, the last statistic I heard was from the quote-unquote, as the Mormon Church had stated, I can't remember the source, but the idea was that 24 Baptists were being converted into the Mormon Church to every one that the Mormons lost to the Baptists. Now that says something about whatever approach we're taking. That says that we're not using the Word of God, that we don't know the Word of God, and when the Mormons give an answer or a response, the person on the other end who thought they had this thing nailed suddenly find themselves going, oh, wait a second, maybe I don't have this right. They haven't been trained properly by the Word of God. They may even haven't been discipled. Oftentimes they just don't have the information and the ammunition to be able to respond properly. And so we look at the point right up front. Well, what is the standard of a prophet? And we can find that in the book of Deuteronomy. We talked about that back in May. But I want to focus on one thing here. If God were to reveal uh... more scripture if the bible isn't all of it then there are certain things that we can test that new revelation with we can we can take a look at that new revelation and ask some questions and one of the warnings we see in the book of proverbs it's uh... proverbs chapter thirty verses five and six and it says to us that every word of god is pure he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him We are warned, add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. And so we're immediately warned right up front that we are not to add to the Word of God, we're not to come up with revelations of our own. We're not to come up with systems of our own. We're not to sit back and say, well, you know what? I could do it better than God, and I have my way of looking at things, and suddenly I invent my own version of the Bible or something like that. It doesn't work that way. We are warned up front by the Word of God. Now, one of the things you deal with immediately, right off the bat, when you encounter a Mormon, conversation starts off I don't know how many times I have heard this, but to Christians, when you talk about your testimony, you're talking about your personal testimony. And I can tell you right off the bat here that if you hear a Mormon sharing their testimony, it's going to sound something like this. I know that the Book of Mormon is true. I know that the Mormon Church is true. i know that joseph smith is a true prophet the holy spirit or the holy ghost has revealed these things to me and they may go on and on and on depending on how flowery they want to make it but there's three major elements to the mormon testimony a they know that the mormon church is true to or be they know the book of mormon is true and see they know that joseph smith and the current prophet whose name suddenly, Gordon Hinckley, is a true prophet. So you want to ask the question, well, how is it that you know this? How do you know? Well, you see, I've prayed about it. I've prayed and I've received the Holy Ghost's assurance. I've received a feeling that I know He's assured me that these things are true, and so we can follow the teachings of the Mormon Church. had to take a sip there real quick it is for some reason really dry in the studio but goodness gracious folks what happened to it's a dry heat outside it's uh... it's supposed to be uh... It's supposed to be a dry heat out there, and it seems like this summer has just been drenching us here in Phoenix. Those of you listening on the internet and other places in the world, Phoenix has been going through a very lengthy monsoon season, and not that I mind the cool rain. It cools us down, but the humidity that we get afterwards can be something else to endure. So when you understand what the Mormon testimony is about, You understand that this person is basically expressing to you that they have prayed and that the Holy Ghost, as they see it, has given them a warm feeling inside that is an assurance of their faith and assurance of what it is that they're praying about. And they're asking you to pray about it. Well, first and foremost, I'm going to warn you right up front, they're going to ask you to pray about the Mormon Church. They're going to ask you to pray about Joseph Smith. And when they ask me this question, I answer, no, I have not prayed about it, and no, I will not pray about it. I've read the Book of Mormon. I understand Mormon theology oftentimes better than many Mormons I encounter, because I've studied it, because I want to be prepared properly to be able to accurately represent what their faith is so that I can deal with it from a biblical perspective. And they kind of get this look, well, why wouldn't you pray about it? I don't understand. Because I'm commanded by the Word of God that I am not to tempt the Lord my God. Okay? And if I were to, for instance, have committed murder, or want to commit murder, I'm not going to go to the Word of God, or I'm not going to go to God and pray about it and say, you know, God, is it okay if I just kill this person? If it's in my heart or my mind to commit adultery, I'm not going to go to God in prayer and say, are you really sure that thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not murder? Are you really sure about that? That's tempting God. He has already expressed Himself in this. He has already laid out His will, His law, and He's not going to back off of it. And so I would be tempting God, and I would say in the same vein, folks, that if you're going to pray about the Mormon Church, He's already revealed this stuff. He's already said in his word where he stands on the doctrines that the Mormon Church teaches, okay? And we're going to talk about that, and we're going to go on. Again, I'm a little puzzled why the phones aren't lighting up right now, because I know we are broadcasting all over the state of Arizona. I was coming back from Denver, Colorado, off a vacation. a little over a week ago and picked KPXQ up on 1360 in Winslow, Arizona, so I know we're out there. And maybe you're a Mormon listening today. I know that some Mormons have called other talk shows here at KPXQ, and they've had some interaction. Maybe you'd like to talk with me today about your faith and the things that the Mormon Church teaches, but understand something. I'm not going to get sidetracked on all these irrelevancies. I want to talk about what the Word of God has to say, and I want to talk about what it has to say to you. Proverbs 14.12, regarding that feeling that we were talking about, Proverbs 14.12 says that there is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. That's the thing right up front that we need to understand. This is an issue of sin, the heart, and the way we feel. There are things that seem right to us. Oh my gosh, the world at large right now. If it feels good, do it. It seems right to these people. It seems right to the world around us to be doing the things that they're doing, and yet they're in immorality. And Proverbs 14.12 says of them, those who are guided by their feelings, that there's a way which seems right. It seems right. But the end thereof are the ways of death. We're to look to the word of God for our answers, not what seems really cool. I'll bet when David was standing up on the top of his roof looking at Bathsheba, it seemed right to do what he did. But then suddenly he found himself in a very difficult position and he had to deal with her husband. That was a way that led to death. It was a sinful way. It was a rebellion against God. Now, Jeremiah 17.9 tells us that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it? This is important. This is a very important verse to camp out on. God has revealed to Jeremiah about the condition of man's heart. Can I trust my feelings? If it feels good, do it. If I pray about something and I get a good feeling, then it must be right." Is that what we're going to say here? That's what Mormons are saying regarding their testimony. Well, Jeremiah says that the heart is deceitful. It's going to lie to you, folks. Your own heart lies to you all the time. And it's deceitful above all things. Jeremiah says there's nothing more deceitful than the heart of a man. You surely can't know your own heart. And so it's important to lay that foundation. A, there's a way which seems right but leads to death. The heart is deceitful above all things. We can't trust our feelings. Now, let's point them in the right direction. Acts 17.11. This is the Berean passage, and it's talking about the Bereans. And the thing is that you need to understand that Paul and Silas, they were over in a town called Thessalonica, and they got beat up. The Thessalonicans did not like what Paul and Silas were preaching, and so they beat them up, they threw rocks at them, and they kicked them out of town. In fact, they had to be smuggled out of town. And so they went from there to a town called Berea. and it says of the Bereans that these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so. Luke applauds the Bereans. He puts them apart. He sets them apart in the chronology of time that they have a place in the Scripture that all believers from then on would look to them with honor. because they searched the scriptures. Now, let's read this again. Maybe it says something a little bit differently. These were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and prayed about it, whether those things were so. That's what the Mormon church would tell you. That's what Mormons do. So Paul and Silas would come to them and preach some doctrine that they've never heard before, and they go and pray about it. No. These people look to God's Word for their answer. They look to God's Word for the answer. And they relied upon God's Word for the answer. And they are commended in Scripture as being noble. Noble. Now, one verse that you have to deal with, the Mormon missionary is going to bring this up very quickly, especially if he's talking about Joseph Smith's first vision, because Joseph Smith was supposedly impacted by James 1.5. And it says that, if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not. and it shall be given him." Now Joseph Smith was in a quandary. He's got all these different, as he put it, religions, all these denominations, and they're, as he saw it, preaching different doctrines, and they're just confusing the heck out of him. He can't understand anything. He just doesn't know what to do, and he's looking for the true faith. And he sees James 1, 5, and it says to him, if any of you lack wisdom, ask of God. Go out and pray about this. Ask God. He'll give you liberally, and He'll upbraideth not. And, of course, the events that follow this situation are he goes out and he has a vision where God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ appear to him in separate and distinct bodies, on and on and on. So this is a pattern for Mormons to follow. They look at this and say, well, that's why we need to pray about these things. Well, here's a problem. It says wisdom. It does not say knowledge. And if you examine what Joseph Smith's quandary was, he didn't know which church was true. Now, I would venture to tell you that he probably lacked wisdom in the process as well, because he did have the information, and he did have the Word of God in his hand, and he didn't have wisdom either. But the point is that he did not have knowledge. That's what he was seeking. And that's what, as the first vision unfolds, you see Joseph Smith telling everybody, suddenly he now has the knowledge, and he has direct knowledge from God. So he never did get wisdom. He got knowledge. And the Greek word for knowledge is gnosis. But the Greek word for wisdom is sophia. And that's the word here. And you see, you want to go back and look at what wisdom is and define the word wisdom, go read the book of Proverbs. Go read the book of Proverbs. You're going to find out very quickly that knowledge and wisdom are two very different things. And Joseph Smith, unfortunately, didn't get the kind of knowledge that, well, he thought he was looking for knowledge or wisdom, whatever, but the point is that this verse cannot apply to the reason or the motivation to pray about the Mormon church and to pray about the Book of Mormon. The next section we're going to look at is the section on God. And again, we are looking at Alpha and Omega Ministries' webpage at www.aomin.org, a-o-m-i-n-dot-o-r-g. We are in the apologetics section from the main menu under Mormonism looking at 100 verses for witnessing to Mormons and we're going to break coming up here real quick we're going to take that break and uh... again five zero eight zero nine sixty one eighty eight talk nine sixty will be right back we're back my name is rich peers i'm sitting in for james white on the dividing line today and we are talking about the mormon church and we're talking about mormon doctrine and how best to witness to mormons and a one hundred verses now for the main mysteries is assembled from the scripture there's not just one hundred verses there's a lot more in the word of god but these we felt were the best one hundred if you will this is our top one hundred from god's word uh... to use to witness to a Mormon. And as we continue on here, we're going to focus on the person of God and who God is. And if we look at what Joseph Smith had to say about God, and folks, this is, despite the, what I call, plausible deniability approach that the Mormon Church is taking in their public relations today, Trying to avoid this doctrine because it doesn't sound real hot. This is what Joseph Smith had to say I have always declared God to be a distinct personage Jesus Christ to be a separate and distinct personage from God the Father and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a spirit and these three constitute three distinct personages and three gods if this is in accordance with the New Testament lo and behold we have a three gods anyhow, and they are plural, and who can contradict it?" This is from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 370 and 372. In fact, he even goes on to say, or this is interesting, "'The head god organized the heavens and the earth. I defy all the world to refute me. In the beginning, the heads of the gods organized the heavens and the earth.'" fascinating perspective from Joseph Smith, but it has nothing to do with the Bible, and the Bible will have none of it, as we're about to see. Turn to Deuteronomy 6, verse 4. Let's see if I can't do this in Hebrew. My Hebrew professor is probably listening, and Dr. White, I hope I don't slaughter this. Shemach Yisrael, Yahweh Eloheinu, Yahweh Echad. Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. This verse, in and of itself, just put what Joseph Smith said to shame. and to this sinful absolutely heretical statement that he made in that quote. Hero Israel, the Yahweh, the Elohim, as Mormons like to call the first God, the Father, the Yahweh, God's personal name, the Jehovah, Our Elohim is one Jehovah. You see, the point is, is that in Scripture Jehovah, or Yahweh, is the personal name for the one true God of Israel. You see, the thing is, is that what Joseph Smith describes there is polytheism. There is no way around it. It is a multiplicity of gods, and he even says it outright, lo and behold, we have three gods anyhow, and who can contradict it? And, of course, if you understand more about Mormon Church's teachings, you understand quickly that they teach that there is an endless genealogy of gods, and so there is a million, billion different gods that have gone before these gods and that are out there populating other worlds like ours. Deuteronomy 6.4, which is the Hebrew Shemach, it is something that every good Jew gets up in the morning recites, teaches very clearly that Jehovah is Elohim. He is one Jehovah, and that is the major point that we need to understand. Understand something. In Hebrew thought, now understand, we believe in a Judeo-Christian The Bible is a Judeo-Christian ethic, or it is a Judeo-Christian work. That's our faith. That's the word I'm looking for, Judeo-Christian faith. And the point is, is that the Christianity comes out of Judaism, okay? And in Judaism, they are absolutely monotheistic. The God of Israel is the God we worship, and He is one. He clearly states in the upcoming verse that I'm about to talk about, Isaiah 43, verses 10 and 11, that there are none else besides Him. He says here, You are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant, whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Now listen carefully. Before me there was no God formed. Now I love the major difference in the responses that I get in talking with Mormons out in Mesa and in Salt Lake these days as opposed to just ten years ago. And when I was starting out doing this, and James had started teaching many of us the basics of Mormonism, you know, we went out there and oftentimes you're kind of sitting going, man, this idea that Joseph Smith is putting forth, this is incredible. Can anybody actually believe this stuff? Can anybody actually really want to defend this?" And you stand up there and you go, okay, this is what Joseph Smith taught, and you're expecting them to go, no, he didn't, and they're looking at you going, yeah, absolutely. You got a problem with that? and he's gone well you know the bible and uh... he didn't say that and uh... back then i was a whole lot more nervous on this topic uh... than i am now i've been doing it for so long clearly he says that before him there was no god formed mormons today in their quest to look like just another christian denomination are running around saying all we just we believe in one god We believe that there is only one God, and you have to really press them to get them to admit the fact that the church actually does teach a multiplicity of gods. And they say, well, we have one God for this earth, and that's Heavenly Father. Well, wait a second. Didn't Joseph Smith just say they have three gods anyhow? Didn't we just read that? They have three gods, at least, just for this world. So they're polytheistic. And I've seen all kinds of twists and turns, but ultimately the belief that there is in existence more than one God anywhere, anytime, anyhow, is polytheism. Okay? So we need to understand that. Let's continue on talking about the nature of God. Isaiah 44, 6 and 8. 44, verses 6 and 8. Thus saith the Lord. Now understand, when you're looking at your Bible, I talked about this back in May. When you look in your Bible and you see the word LORD there in all caps, the L-O-R-D are smaller, but they're still capital letters. Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel. That word LORD, when you see it appear like that in capital letters, is the Hebrew word Yahweh. It's a Hebrew word, Yahweh, or what we got from Germany. Martin Luther translated it into German as Jehovah, and we brought it over and transliterated it into English. And so we see this, and he's saying, Thus saith the Yahweh, or the Jehovah, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Jehovah of hosts, I am the first, and I am the last, and beside me there is no Elohim, God. Capital G-O-D, when you see that, the term is Elohim. fear you not, neither be afraid, have I not told thee, have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it, you are even my witnesses, is there a God, is there an Elohim beside me? Yea, there is no Elohim, I know not any." Now I find that absolutely fascinating in light of what Joseph Smith says in the King Follett funeral discourse that I just read. Because in essence Joseph Smith comes along thousands of years after Isaiah gives this prophecy And God says, there is no God beside me, yea, there's no God. He doesn't know of any other God. And yet Joseph Smith comes along thousands of years later and says he's wrong. That there's actually thousands of gods, millions of gods, an endless genealogy of gods out there. as a forty five five and six uh... by the way uh... you can go i say a forty three forty eight is replete with verses like this uh... i am the lord i'm the away and the jehovah and there is none else there is no no god no elohim beside me but joseph smith say he said that uh... jesus who's beside the Father and the Holy Spirit, or Holy Ghost, who's beside Jesus and the Father, they're gods too? He says, there's no God beside me. I girded thee, though thou hast not known me, that they may know from the rising of the sun and from the west that there is none beside me. I am Jehovah, there is none else. Now, you have to understand that we're kind of leaning into, inadvertently, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and the idea that the one true God is The Father, the person of the Father, the person of the Son, the person of the Holy Spirit, these three persons make up the one being who is God. He is unique and there is none else. And we need to understand that is what we are saying on this program. Don't get into all this, I'm saying that Jesus isn't God and the Holy Spirit isn't God. Yes, of course they are. They are triune. They are one. They make up the one true God. Deuteronomy 4.35, differentiating between Yahweh and Elohim, as I've already been doing It is an interesting passage, unto thee it was showed, or shown, that thou mightest know that Yahweh, or Jehovah, he is Elohim, and there is none else beside him. And though it is important, especially in this series of verses, to stick with the King James, you might want to take and, for instance, insert, pronounce it showed, or at least maybe even shown, in that verse so that it's a little bit more understandable. Moving along here, Isaiah 44, 24, and then we're going to get into the nature of God and talk about His eternal nature. This will be the last verse on that. Isaiah 44, 24, Thus saith the Lord thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Now this is key in understanding that the Mormon temple ceremonies depict God, the Father, Jehovah, sending down, or actually Elohim, sending down Michael and Jehovah to organize the matter. So in Mormon thought the quote-unquote head God for this earth doesn't even do the organization, let alone the creation. We need to understand that Jehovah He says that He did it alone, by Himself. And of course, the verses we've already revealed, it says that Jehovah is Elohim. And so the one true God of Israel, the Creator of all things, created this planet alone, and He also created the heavens. all things he says here all things any spread of the broad the birth by himself and that's a key verse uh... to understanding that uh... we're gonna get into god's nature here in a second but uh... first uh... we are up for a break and so we're gonna talk about song ninety verse two before the mountains were formed from everlasting to everlasting our god and just a minute and we're back uh... that young lady was james white's daughter uh... summer She's not my daughter. Her daddy won't be right back. He's probably at this moment just wrapping up some teaching at Golden Gate Seminary and he's down in Tucson right now teaching down there. He's going to have, I believe, five different times this semester he'll be doing that and so I'll be filling in. And 5080960, I've been informed today that we're going to actually have an extra 10 minutes of the program today, and I hope that's a blessing. The lines aren't lighting up, and I hope that's not a bad sign, but at the very least we have lots of Bible verses to cover here, certainly more than what we have time for. But after the top of the hour, we're going to actually continue with the program until about ten after three o'clock. So I just wanted to let you know that. So if you call in now, there will be plenty of time to talk with you. We are talking about Bible verses for witnessing to Mormons in a theme where we're staying on target and being focused on what the real issues are in witnessing to Mormons and not getting sidetracked. psalm ninety verse two we're talking about the nature of god here it is a this is more of a interactive verse if you will in using it to you actually have to use your arms and if you're like me that's really because i'd like to let my arms and hands flail around a lot while i'm talking and it says before the mountains were brought forth or ever thou hast for me birth in the world even from everlasting to everlasting thou art god now this is uh... as i recall some of those And I read this psalm, and if you really look at what the whole passage is saying, it is a beautiful, beautiful psalm where Moses is exalting God in his true nature, in his genuine nature as the Creator and as eternal. And so if you will, you use your arms, and you use your left arm and you stretch it all the way out to your side, and then you use your right arm and you stretch it all the way out to your other side. And it would go like this. before the mountains were brought forth opening extending your left arm And before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting," so your left arm's out there pointing to everlasting, to everlasting. Your right arm now comes out and points to everlasting, thou art God. Now I have one question. How long does everlasting last? Well, it's everlasting. It's like forever. Okay, you can put a time limit on it of any kind, and it's got that much further to go. It's infinity. It's infinite. From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Present tense statement, where Moses is saying, you are God, even from everlasting to everlasting, before the mountains were brought forth, or ever he had formed the earth and the world. from everlasting to everlasting you're God you are and Joseph Smith's God can't say that because there was a time when he lived in a mortal probation and he was on earth as a human being himself as Orson Pratt taught a sinful human being and he eventually became a God through working his way up to exaltation But that's not the God of the Bible. No way. No way. He's always been God. There are no other gods. And He will always be God. Okay? That is a very key verse to understand. Hosea 11.9. God says it outright. Because again, we talk about Joseph Smith teaching that God was once a man and lived on another planet. And if you looked in the heavens, he says, if you looked in the veil we're in today and you could look in the old, you would see God in the very form as a man. So he's an exalted man, but he's still by nature a man. But God in Hosea 11.9 differentiates very clearly. He says, for I am God and not man, the Holy One in the midst of thee. He's talking about his nature. Now, let's expound on that a second here. Nature. What are we talking about then? If you've ever been up in the mountains and you've seen some of these big, huge boulders, I want you to imagine a big rock. imagining the big rock okay good that rock has the being of a rock that's right it has the nature and being of a rock human beings have the nature and being of a human of a man okay what god is differentiating here is that he has the nature the being of god He is a totally different order of being. He is not a man. He is God, and He is the Holy One in the midst of thee. And this verse is something we've got to explain that very clearly, that He is not an exalted man. He is not of the same species. my dog i got to take my dog to the vet this morning okay and my dog has a wonderful personality i mean this guy this dog is fun okay uh... he i i i love the fact that i throw the ball and all growing up the german shepherds my parents bought me would never bring the thing back they just and look at me like a stupid okay by this dog actually brings the ball back and he loves to do this he has great personality okay And he's fun. But the thing is, is that he is of the nature and species and being of a dog. He's a canine. Okay? We are human beings. He is the one unique God being. Okay? That's what Hosea 11.9 is getting after here. Jeremiah 23.24. Jeremiah 23.24. Can any man hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him, saith the Lord? Listen closely. Do not I fill the heaven and the earth, saith the Lord. This is talking about God's omnipresence. We're talking about the fact that God fills all space and all time. And so we need to understand that in Jeremiah 23, 24, he's saying it's not his influence that fills the heaven and the earth, it's him that fills the heaven and the earth. Jeremiah 23, 24, where we're talking about God filling the heaven and the earth. And, can anyone hide himself in secret places that he shall not see him? He is very clear on, hmm, He's very clear on this issue. 2 Chronicles 6.18, but will God in very deed dwell with men on earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee, how much less this house which I have built. Now, let's get some context here as we take a look at this. The context is Solomon, and he's dedicating the temple. He says, but will God in very deed dwell with men on earth? Behold, the heaven and the heavens cannot contain thee, how much less this house which I have built. Well, the temple was a very large place. and a great deal of work went into building it. The thing that needs to be expressed here is that God cannot be contained in limited space. And in Mormon thought, the God of Mormonism is contained within a limited space. And we need to understand He's omnipresent. He's everywhere. not his influence, as Mormons like to describe it, but his being is everywhere. He is everywhere. Talking about Jesus and Lucifer, now one of the things we need to often understand here is that Jesus according to the mormon church is the spirit brother of lucifer in fact they teach that he is the firstborn spirit child of god the father and he is in fact of the literal born uh... child of god the father in the flesh and that uh... you god the father actually began through mary uh... through physical intercourse uh... his son jesus christ and they look to Jesus as their elder brother. And so we need to understand that as we take a look at Colossians chapter one. I'm looking at the board here and there's all kinds of things here. Let me bring KJ on the line on line one. KJ, how are you today? Hi, how are you today? Great. That's good. Well, I'm calling because I've been listening to the program on the weekday talk show where they've been upbraiding the Mormons for putting the ad on PAX TV. My background is that I was baptized a Mormon when I was eight years old. The first thing I did when I was about ten, I read Mormon Doctrine by David O. McKay, which is a book about what Mormons are supposed to believe. Then I read the Bible and compared it and found several inconsistencies. and attempted to get the answers and never received satisfactory answers, and then finally I became inactive in the church and became a Christian. But I think people, like I don't even understand, to me a lot of the concept of what the Trinity is is a mystery, you know? There are many things about Christianity that I don't understand, but there are many things that are Mormon doctrine that are definitely non-biblical, but I must say that the Mormon Church does a better job of spreading its interpretation of what the gospel is.