Hello, I'm Larry Wessels, director of Christian Answers, and I want to thank you for being with us today. Our broadcast today centers on the religion of Islam. We're doing a series right now. In fact, we're in show number six in this series entitled, Answering Islamic Apologists. Now, for our first-time viewers, a lot of people don't know what the word apologist means. It doesn't mean someone that's apologizing for something. It basically means someone who's a defender of their faith. It means someone who proclaims that his particular religion and his religious views are true. They will stand the test, and he also defends his religion against other people who attack his religion. He sets forth the propositions with reasonable arguments, as he would think, and evidence, facts, and so forth, to prove that his religion is true. That's what mainly an apologist does. And what we're going to do on this show is try to answer Islamic apologists who make their claims. In fact, I might as well bring this out now. The show centers on Islamic teachings by Dr. Jamal Badawi. He's one of these Islamic apologists I was just talking about. We're using his tape series, this one being package 8, called Series K, Jesus, Beloved Messenger of Allah. And what we have here is 16 hours, just in this particular album alone, of Dr. Jamal Badawi's tapes, where he, from an apologetical point of view, is trying to prove the Islamic perspective that it is true and that Christianity is false. And the Jesus of the Christians is false. And the Jesus of Islam is true. And what we're doing here in this program is mainly answering Dr. Jamal Badawi, although we will be dealing with some of the other Islamic apologists as well in this series. But the main focus of our program is to deal with what Dr. Badawi has said on his television broadcast. Like I said, these are soundtracks from his television shows, and try to answer those arguments and accusations that he makes against the Christian faith. And joining me on this program to do just this is my brother in Christ and also our director of research for Christian Answers, Steve Morrison. Steve, great to have you here. Well, thank you, Larry. And just as Dr. Jamal Badawi, and I'll put him back here between us, but just as Dr. Badawi is an apologist for his faith, We are Christian apologists following the command of Jude 3 to earnestly contend for the faith or to get in there and fight or wrestle or grapple as the Greek says for that word contend in Jude 3, the little book right before Revelation. There's other passages, 1 Peter 3 15, I think of Philippians 1 verse 17, it says to be set for the defense and confirmation of the gospel. You have many scriptures that tell us as Christians we are to defend our faith from those who would attack it and also give reasonable answers why we believe this faith. Not that we blindly believe it, but are there reasons why we believe it? And is it reasonable? Are there facts and evidence that would substantiate why we believe or believe, or is it just a blind faith? And we as Christian apologists, not apologizing, but giving reasonable answers and defending our faith, have been provided with a wealth of evidences by God to prove the Christian faith from all kinds of points, from manuscript evidence, from archaeological evidence, from prophecies that you find throughout the Bible. People make a big deal about that. that guy from way back in medieval times, Nostradamus. But Nostradamus doesn't have anything on the Bible and on the prophets of God or on Jesus Christ. If you want fulfilled Bible prophecy, a hundred percent, you go to the Bible. This is a quick recap from show number five in this series on answering Islamic apologists. In the previous show, Dr. Badawi made charges concerning the early Christian Church being non-Trinitarian. Bataoui is 170 years out of date on the Trinity, and more out of date than that on the deity of Christ. We first find the term Trinity in the writings of Theophilus of Antioch, 168 to 181, 188 AD. The curious thing about this reference is that he mentions the Trinity assuming the readers were already familiar with the term. Another early church father, Irenaeus, a disciple of Ignatius, also wrote about the deity of Christ. Early church non-Trinitarian? Definitely not. Is this a Unitarian statement? Quote, As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so sent he him. As God, he sent him. As to men, he sent him. As a Savior, he sent him. this 130 A.D. by Dognetus, a disciple of the Apostle, in his letter to Methodius. Batawi's endorsement of Arius. Batawi's endorsement of Arius is curious, as we were under the impression Batawi was not a heretical Muslim. Arius believed Jesus was a God, though a lesser God than the Father. And Arians had various views of Jesus being of, like, though not identical, substance with the Father. Bishop Alexander was against Arius, but Athanasius had a greater role. Batawi's Council of Nicaea. Somehow Batawi thinks the council had 270 different Gospels there. That is actually the number of people who were there. In Batawi's version, the Council approved of the Trinity despite there being no conclusive evidence for the doctrine. This would make no sense in reality. The historical documents themselves prove Batawi wrong. Bataoui says the council approved that the Holy Spirit was God despite, allegedly, no evidence for this. Once again, Bataoui expects his audience to remain ignorant by simply believing what he says. Not 270 gospels. Bataoui says there were 270 different gospels without any evidence to substantiate his claim. Against Batawe, Irenaeus, living 120-202 AD, wrote much earlier, quote, she, the church, also believes these points of doctrine, just as if she had but one soul. For the churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor do those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor etc., etc., etc." The doctrine was the same throughout the world. Recap of Batawi's attacks on the Apostle Paul. Bataoui accuses Paul of being a heretic and an innovator of non-gospel material. Bataoui accuses Paul of having a false religion compared to that of Jesus because Paul was influenced by Hellenistic philosophy and ancient mystery cult religions. Bataoui has adopted a view that was popular among Bible critics particularly between 1890 in 1940, namely, that Paul's theology was syncretistic, i.e., not one held by the original disciples and Jesus himself, but a theology that evolved and borrowed from pagan religions. Mattaway's line of argumentation against Paul is now well over 60 years outdated and is no longer seriously considered by informed scholars. Those who would like scholarly research dealing with this issue are invited to read, The Gospel in the Greeks by Ronald H. Nash, published 2003 by PNR Publishing out of New Jersey. Selections from Hellenistic Philosophy, Gordon H. Clark, 1940, Appleton Century Crofts. The Christology of the New Testament, Oscar Coleman, 1963, Westminster Press, Philadelphia. The background of the New Testament and its eschatology. W. D. Davies and D. Daube, 1956, Cambridge University Press. The origin of Paul's gospel. Seung Kim, 1982, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan. The origin of Paul's religion. J. Gresham Macon, 1925, Macmillan, New York. Batouille's claims about early Christian church history. Battawee's interpretation of early Christian church history and the reliability of the New Testament records is so flawed as to be laughable from a scholarly perspective. Those who would like further information on this issue are invited to read The Apostolic Fathers, J.B. Lightfoot and J.R. Harmer, 1989, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan. The New Testament documents, are they reliable? By F.F. Bruce, 1960, InterVarsity Press, Grove, Illinois. Why Believe the Bible? By John F. MacArthur, 1980, Regal Books, Glendale, California. The Foundation of Biblical Authority, James M. Boyce, 1978, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan. The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible, B.B. Warfield, 1970, PNR Publishing, New Jersey. Archeology and the Religion of Israel, W.F. Albright, 1956, J. Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, Maryland. Redating the New Testament by John A.T. Robinson, 1976, Westminster Press, Philadelphia, PA. See also, the Anti-Nicene Fathers, 1981, Erdman's, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Well, let's go to tape 13. That's where we are in this series, in show number six. Dr. Bataoui's tape is entitled, Other Major Councils and Later Councils. And as you see on the screen, some information that came from Dr. Bataoui's tapes. And then we'll just briefly discuss these things and move on to his next tape. Of course, we'll take more time if we feel like it deserves more time. Anyway, point A, after the Council of Nicaea in 325, the second major council of the church was held in 381 AD in Constantinople. This council reiterated that the Holy Spirit was divine. The third major council was held in Ephesus in 431 A.D. to clarify the divinity and humanity of Jesus and to condemn Nestorius. C. The fourth major council was held in Chalcedon in 451 A.D. which sided with the theory that Jesus had two natures, but those two natures are united without change, without division, and without separation. Battaway says this doctrine is blasphemy because it is saying God died on the cross. D. The Fifth Council was the Second Council of Constantinople, which took place in 553 A.D., and Bataoui goes on to list a few more councils and conferences. E. Bataoui talks about how the rise of Islam comes along to clarify things. Bataoui says the Council of Nicaea and others were, quote, innovations, end quote. And F. Bataoui lists sins of the Christian Church, including icon worship, selling forgiveness, otherwise known as indulgences. He says no one can forgive sins, including Jesus, and he mentions the Crusades. where the Crusaders attacked the Muslim lands and tried to take Jerusalem. Batawi says the Muslim rulers were more humane during these Crusades than the Crusader overlords. So basically what we have here in tape 13 of Dr. Batawi's soundtrack from his television show in this particular series, is he's trying to show all these councils of the Christian Church, Council of Nicaea, Council of Constantinople, Second Council, and so forth, and then he's trying to show the incredible confusion that the Christian Church had to go through by these things. And he argues that, well, they're arguing about the two natures of Christ over here. And suddenly they're coming up with this idea that the Holy Spirit mentioned in the scriptures is divine. And they had to have a council on that. But there was disagreements. And they had to argue on this kind of majority rule vote. And there were pressure under the Roman emperors and some of their other hierarchical councils that were exerting political influence on these councils. Basically, to make a long story short, he's trying to make these councils look like there's a lot of confusion going on and it's kind of a mess. And what they really needed was Islam to come along sometime after these councils and clarify everything. He's basically trying to make these councils look like they're a confused mess, and Islam is going to come along and clarify things. And then he also points out, you know, the problems in the church about icon worship and, as you mentioned, the Crusades and the terrible things they did, you know, slaughtering people and all the terrible things you've seen in history dealing with that. And he tries to show how Islam is the answer to all this confusion. and errors and these weird ideas like the Council of Nicaea comes up with the doctrine of the Trinity and then these other councils saying the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus is God. And so basically what we have here is just a whitewash, you might say, of early church history in these councils and how they're coming up basically from Battaweed's point of view with false doctrine, things that aren't true, things that could be easily refuted by any Unitarian out there who doesn't believe what these innovative scriptures that the Apostle Paul brought in, and these other forgeries that the Gospels have brought in from either someone who claimed to be John, or someone who claimed to be Mark, or someone who claimed to be Matthew. And he makes those kind of arguments and shows how the validity of Islam is what we need. Well, obviously we would totally disagree with what Dr. Battaway is saying here. Constantinople, 381 A.D. Lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God, according to Acts 5, verses 3 and 4. 1 Corinthians 3, verse 16, Acts 13, verse 2, and Matthew 12, verses 31-32 also declare the Holy Spirit to be God, among other verses. Long before this council, Irenaeus, living 120-202 AD, wrote, quote, Know thou that every man is either empty or full, For if he has not the Holy Spirit, he has no knowledge of the Creator, he has not received Jesus Christ, the life, he knows not the Father who is in heaven." Against Heresies 3, 16. Constantinople 2, 553 AD. Early Islam had an analog to councils also, with Karajites, followers of Ali, etc. Except these are not called peaceful councils, they were bloody battles. Unlike Christian councils, Muslim councils, many times dependent on which Islamic doctrinal side, had the better general with a victorious army. Islam clarifies and councils innovate. Selective semantics. Uthman's standardizing of the Quran was not done in a council fashion either. The major doctrines in these councils have their basis in the Bible, though some of the later councils did add other traditions. Many human traditions were added to Christianity in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches. While we do not approve of these additions, Muslims should understand this because they have had Hadith added to Islam centuries after Muhammad walked the earth. Yes, he mentions the right dates and times of these councils. Yes, the Church did say that the Holy Spirit is God, and there's plenty of references for that. In fact, just to be brief on this, because we've got a lot of material to cover, the Holy Spirit, when you look in the Scripture, the Holy Spirit has a mind. That's in Romans 8.27. There's the infinite comprehension of the Holy Spirit. That's 1 Corinthians 2.11. The foreknowledge of the Spirit, that's mentioned in John 16.13. The power of the Spirit, Romans 15.13. The love of the Spirit, Romans 15 30, the determinate will of the Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit that determines what gifts you get, the charismatic gifts for instance. In 1 Corinthians chapter 12 and 11, that the Holy Spirit creates life and gives it, that's in Job chapter 33 verse 4 and also Psalm 33 6. The Holy Spirit strives with the Angeli, Angeli Genesis 6-3. And I have an entire list here that the Holy Spirit is God. You get that in like Acts 13-2 and also Acts chapter 5 with the, in the early verses there dealing with Ananias and Sapphira where Peter says, you haven't, where he says, you've lied to the Holy Spirit. Then he says, almost in the same breath, you've not lied unto men, but you've lied to God. In other words, he's calling the Holy Spirit God there. So, and you got those other references in John 14 and 16 by Jesus about another comforter will come to you, giving credence to the whole biblical idea that the Holy Spirit is God. And for anyone that wants more information on this, please contact our ministry. We have plenty of written material. We've got videos, tapes. We've got a wealth of information to substantiate this thing. So, the scriptures definitely prove that. And Steve, to get you in the act here, just briefly, One of Battaway's points about these councils and things is they created this doctrine that people believe that Jesus is God and the Trinity, the Holy Spirit being God and so forth, from the Council of Nicaea in 325. All this confusion started to come along with these councils coming up with these crazy ideas like the Trinity and Jesus being God when that was not true. OK, well, first of all, one thing a lot of people may not know is that the Nicene Creed, it was created at Nicaea, but it wasn't invented from scratch. It was actually just a slight emendation of what was called the Old Creed of Jerusalem. And it was also very similar to another creed called the Creed of Caesarea. And this is according to the long series of Apostolic Fathers of Volume 7, page 524. But even going back before these creeds, going to the early Church Fathers, you have Ignatius, who died 107 or 106 AD, and he said about Jesus, Look for him that is above the times, him who is not times. Him who is invisible. Him who for our sakes became visible. Him who is impalpable, which means beyond touch. Him who is impassable, beyond passion. Him who for our sakes suffered, who endured everything in every way for our sakes. And this was through his letter in Polycarp, Chapter 3. And so he has an extremely high view of Jesus, talking about Jesus was not in time, and Jesus was in time, and Jesus was not visible, and then he became visible, just to show how that, he didn't actually use the word Trinity, but he had a part of the concept there. the very beginnings of the Christian Church and find that they were believing that Jesus was God from the very beginning, from John 20, 28, where Thomas falls down at Jesus' feet and he says to Jesus, my Lord and my God. And so the evidence is there. We could go on with all this, but like I say, to save time, Anyone that needs more information, contact our ministry, get the written literature. We have many other videos and things that deal with this topic in much more detail than we plan to do here. One more thing about the councils, though, is that the councils were not to create doctrine. The councils were to guard against heresy and false doctrine. Now, so they met together and times of the early church and later and resolve this. You're saying they're not making innovations like Dr. Ben-Hassan? No, they're not making innovations. Now, in Islam we can show the same things except we don't show councils. We have different names like Sifn and Karbala. These aren't councils. These are battles. to where Ali gets killed. Ali's son, Hussein, gets killed. And so they basically handled their differences just by killing the opposite side, rather than discussing them. And let's say, in some cases, Exxon, the heretics in Christianity, they just kill Ali and his son. Frankly, I think that our way of dealing with heresy is a little more milder than killing the descendants of the prophets. That's right. That's right. And as far as those other points about the battle we made about Jesus never forgave anybody's sins, well, all you have to do is read Mark chapter 2, verses 5 through 13. You find Jesus forgiving people's sins right there. Only God can forgive sins. Everybody knows that. But Jesus was forgiving sins because He is God. So Battaway leaves that out conveniently. And as far as the Crusaders, we've said this in other programs, we agree the Crusaders were just as bad as the people they claimed to be ungodly. They were violating what God says. And so to use hypocrites to say that the Bible's not true or something like that doesn't prove a thing. You know, I remember going to a speech by Madeline Murray O'Hara at UT one time, and she was saying, you can't believe the Bible because the church is full of hypocrites. But see, there's a logical fallacy in that. Just because there's a bunch of hypocrites everywhere doesn't mean that the Bible itself is not true. So, you know, the whole logic of that just doesn't work when it comes to the Crusaders and so forth like that. Let's go on to the next tape. Tape 14. The title is Later Unitarians. He brings up Servetus and Francis David. Point A, Bataoui talks about the Spanish Inquisition and how it forced people to worship the Trinity. B, Bataoui here gives a very, from my perspective, very biased and sympathetic sob story about the anti-Trinitarian Servetus and his execution. He spends a lot of time on that. C, Bataoui states that Trinitarians, quote, really believe in three gods, end quote. D, Bataoui says the Trinity is impossible. and the Bible does not support it. E, Battaway says a non-Trinitarian named Francis David from the 1500s AD won all his debates and said Trinitarians believed in three or four gods. And F, Battaway says Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are Christians. So, what we have here again, and we've already addressed this, just to start from the back and move backwards, the last point he makes about Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons or Christians, well, as we've stated in other shows, that's like saying a gulot Muslim who believes in a trinity of Allah, Ali, And pick your other one, like Muhammad. That would be a true Muslim. A Sunni Muslim would never accept that. So what Batawi is constantly doing is he's generalizing. Anybody that even claims some kind of semblance to Christianity or the Bible, well, they're Christians. But he wouldn't expect us to do that to Muslims. So you get one of these way out Sufi Muslims that's buying into Rumi, I guess, or some of these other guys. He wouldn't accept that. But yet he does the same thing to Christians and tries to lump them all together even when they have widely divergent views. Mormons believe there are going to be millions of gods and they're going to be a god themselves. Jehovah's Witnesses have a totally set of different beliefs than I hear. They're not considered to be true Christians by the Christian church. So, Battley thinks it's alright to make that accusation against Christians, but he would never accept it if we were to turn it around on him and bring in some of these Muslim groups that he would not accept as Muslims. And as we get into some of these other things, I'd like to mention, since he spent so much time on Servetus, We're going to play a little tape clip here of someone we highly respect, James White, He is from, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and he did a debate with a person who, one that's Pentecostal, James Saban, one that's Pentecostal, who gave almost in that debate a similar sob story like Dr. Betta we did, and James White had a great reputation to it. So we're going to listen to a clip of James White dealing with this Cervetus issue, and then we'll be right back. Much was said, and I teach church history once in a while, and so I was somewhat antsy because I, in fact, at one point went to the Phoenix Public Library and read every book in the library that made any mention whatsoever to Miguel Cervedes. So the story that you heard, I am very, very, very familiar with. I'd just like to mention briefly a few things that didn't get mentioned. For example, the fact that John Calvin risked his life to meet Cervetis in Paris many years before the events described to you, Cervetis didn't show up. Also not mentioned was the fact that Calvin tried to reason with Servetus in the correspondence once he figured out that Villanueva was actually Servetus. It was not mentioned that Servetus sent Calvin's institutes, which Calvin had sent to him, back to him with rude insults written in the margins. Neither was it mentioned that it took Calvin's friend a long time to coerce him into giving the information to the Roman Catholic authorities as to who Villanueva actually was. It did not mention that Servetus was condemned by the Inquisition and escaped only the night before his execution by burning by the Roman Catholic Inquisition. In fact, they burned him in effigy the next day. Neither was it mentioned that Servetus tried to get Calvin himself charged with heresy and that Servetus aligned himself with Calvin's political foes in Geneva. And neither was it mentioned that the ministers, including Calvin, pled that Cervetus be executed in a humane manner and not the way in which it was described, and that their pleas were rejected by the Council. And neither was it mentioned that Geneva sent to all the other Swiss cantons. They sent to Luther's successor, Melanchthon, and they all agreed together that Servetus had to die. That's the danger of sacralism. That's what happens when you place the sword in the hand of the state and give them religious authority. I am a Baptist. Baptists have the longest martyrology of any Protestant denomination in the world. Baptists were killed long after any other group had come to peace with either Rome or the magisterial Protestants There was a Baptist burned in London in 1611 when the King James Version of the Bible was published there were Baptists being persecuted well into the 17th century and the 18th century and So I know the danger of the state church But I stand before you presenting to you the doctrine of the Trinity not on the authority of the state church. I I presented to you the doctrine of the Trinity based upon the exegesis of the text of Scripture. And that must be where any person who loves God's truth goes. Well, I think James took care of Servetus pretty clearly. The history's there, the study's there, and y'all can easily check into that. Just going with sob stories and emotionalism stories does not prove your case. Yeah, if I can bring up ten guys that were wrong for something, you know, that was not right, that still doesn't prove this other point about is the Trinity true or not? I mean, what does the Bible say? Just because this guy got ripped off and got burned at the stake or something, does that mean the Bible's not teaching the Trinity? You know, there's no logical consistency there. So coming up with sob stories and emotionalism doesn't prove anything. Okay, and then with that, Bataoui goes on about saying, and I've said it in other shows, Bataoui will not accept what the Christians tell him. The Christians say, we believe in one God, and within the nature of the one God, there's three eternally distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But see, Bataoui and his champions like Francis David, he just won't accept it. He says, no, what they really are doing is believing in three different gods. And see, he's denying us, he's setting up a straw man. He's actually making us, he's putting into our mouths something we don't believe. I don't believe in three gods, or four, like this guy Francis David, he quote says. And he also says that Francis David won all his debates. Well, you know, I could just go around saying I've won all my debates. Of course, that's debatable. But the problem is, you can make claims and statements, but that doesn't prove your point. And for Battawee to go around saying Christians believe in three gods, when any true born-again Christian will tell you that's not true, I believe in one God, within the nature of the one essence of God, are revealed from the scripture three eternally distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But see, Battawee just will not accept what we're telling him we believe. But he would get mad at us if we started to put words in his mouth and tell him things that he's supposed to believe when he really doesn't believe it. One last word about Cervetus. Cervetus was unfortunately burned. But if we want to swap Saab stories, Muhammad cut off people's limbs, burned out their eyes, and made them die of thirst. See Bukhari, 9, 117, 6, 198 prior, as well as Fiqh Ussunah, Volume 1, page 133. Sahih Muslim, volume 1, page 315, speaks of burning down the houses of people who miss prayer. Al-Hakim, an insane Muslim caliph who, immolating Nero, burned down the entire Jewish quarter in Cairo. Okay, let's go to the next section then. This will be tape number 15 by Madeline. There's a lot of material here. I'll try to read it rapidly, and then we'll try to deal with the high points and move on. Tape 15, Later Unitarians. He's just bringing up Sozzini, Socinius, and John Brittle. Point A, Bataoui says the Trinity Doctrine is a result of pagan philosophy. B, Bataoui says there is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus is divine. C, Bataoui relates the lives and struggles of Socinius, who in Bataoui's eyes were heroes fighting against, quote, innovations, end quote, in Christian doctrine. They lived around 1605 AD, but one wonders why Bataoui quotes these non-Muslims almost a thousand years after Muhammad. D. Battlewey says that these champions fought against the idea of Jesus' death, atoning for sins. Some of their arguments were as follows, which Battlewey lists in his tapes. One, Jesus, a mere man, could not die and atone for all the sins of all masses of humans on earth. 2. If Jesus died for sins, then everyone is okay and does not need to obey God's commands. 3. If Jesus paid the debt owed to God, then God has no authority over man for anything because the debt has already been paid by Jesus. 4. Jesus is not a Word made flesh and did not exist before He was created and later simply received revelation from His Creator. E. Baddowy says the official Christian church could not refute these two guys' arguments with scripture or logical arguments, but simply condemned them as heretics. F. Baddowy says the Holy Spirit is the Angel Gabriel Gee, Battaway praises the anti-Trinitarian John Brittle, who is around 1662, and gives some of Brittle's arguments against the Holy Spirit being God, such as, one, the Old Testament says the Holy Spirit is given by God, therefore the Holy Spirit is distinct from God, and therefore cannot be God. Two, to talk of difference of being, that's essence, and person. And the nature of God is to talk of God impersonally. And since God is a person, this is impossible. Three, the scripture says the Holy Spirit only speaks what he hears from God, John 16, 13, and therefore cannot be God. Four, in John 16, 14, he says the Holy Spirit receives and therefore cannot be God. 5. Anyone that is sent by another cannot be God. 6. The Holy Spirit is a gift and therefore cannot be God. 7. The Holy Spirit prays and therefore cannot be divine. 8. Anyone who has a will independent of God cannot be God. uh... and also h that we says no one that was ever able to refute brittle on these points so uh... it looks like uh... we're up against a in a possible task here steve because brittle on these points i just listed was never able to be no one's been able to ever repute this guy well according to according to bodily but actually answers for all these things were we're going to invite by early christians Result of pagan philosophy? Hellenistic pagan philosophy contained an almost endless variety of combinations of religion and philosophy. Bataoui argues that modern Christian doctrine is a result of this. One major flaw in this line of reasoning is early Christianity's uncompromising exclusiveness. There is only one God, it taught. Those who worship any other but the true God are lost. There is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ. Any who seek to approach the Father in any other way are lost. There is only one ground of human salvation, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Those who seek redemption in any other way will perish. Thus, evidence furnished by the New Testament suggests that early Christianity was an exception to the syncretism and inclusiveness of the Hellenistic age. Despite the evidence of the trinity, threeness, in the Bible given earlier, Batawi's theory is disingenuous, as many of Muhammad's teachings are also said to be derived from pagan philosophy. For example, the Quran even mentions the daughters of Allah. Jesus was no mere man. Jesus was God in the flesh, the God-man. The biblical evidence is overwhelming. Jesus is God, John 20, 28, John 1, 1, Hebrews chapter 1, verses 8 and 9, 2 Corinthians chapter 11, verse 3, Titus 2, 13, Jesus is the same nature as God. Philippians 2, verses 6 and 7. Jesus has the fullness of God. Colossians 1, verse 19. Jesus was specifically prayed to. Acts 7, verse 59. Jesus accepted worship. Matthew 2, verse 2. Matthew 8, verse 2. Matthew 14, 33. 28, 17. 29, 9. Luke 24, verse 52. And John 9, 38. Jesus forgave sins only God could forgive Matthew chapter 9 verses 2 through 6 Mark chapter 2 verses 5 through 12 and Luke chapter 5 20 through 23 Luke 7 48 through 50 Jesus said he existed before the world began John chapter 8 verse 58 Jesus never said he was innocent of claiming to be God John chapter 10 verse 33 and John 20 28 Sozini and Socinius, heroes? These men would be considered heretics or worse for their views of Jesus by Muslims also. Their doctrinal views of Jesus differ greatly with the Muslim view of Jesus. Does this mean they are qualified to be quote, heroes, end quote, since they deny what Muhammad said about Jesus? Battle is quoting of invalid arguments. But if Jesus were not just a mere man, but also God, then Battley's argument has an invalid presupposition. All genuine Christians believe that Jesus' death for all types of people does not give salvation to those who reject God's grace. Jesus paid the price in full for sins committed by those saved through his shed blood. That payment is not applied to those who reject Christ and His atonement. Battley did say earlier that Jesus was a word from Allah. That's from his tape number 5 in this series, Comparative Christology number 1. Surah 3, 45 and Surah 4, 171 from the Quran and Sahih Muslim 1, 22 from the Hadith state that Jesus was a quote, word, end quote, from Allah. Who first taught Jesus is God? Modern Christians take no credit for being the first to show from the Bible that Jesus is God because apart from the Bible, Ignatius Irenaeus, Polycarp, Tertullian, Novatian, Hippolytus, and other early Christian church fathers already stated this fact 1,700 to 1,900 years ago. The Holy Spirit is Gabriel or a force? Like Batawi, many Muslims consider the Holy Spirit and Gabriel to be the same. This is not universal, though, because the Quran does not really explain the Holy Spirit. Yet in the next tape, point C, Badawi states that Unitarians who taught the Holy Spirit as just a force had the original apostolic teaching. Therefore, Does Bataoui believe, A, like many Muslims that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel, B, the Unitarians had the original apostolic teaching that the Holy Spirit is a force, or C, he is just trying to say anything to attack the Holy Spirit and the Trinity? Brittle simple arguments? Note that arguments 1 through 6 by Brittle are restriction arguments. Almighty God, the Holy Spirit, is restricted from being God because the Holy Spirit has some attribute, according to Brittle. Brittle never gave the basis for who or what restricted the omnipotent God from this. 7. There is communication of feelings and thoughts among the Trinity. And whether you call it prayer, interceding, or something else, Brittle's arguments here, with Bataoui's blessings, are simply semantics. Semantic gymnastics in redefinition do not win arguments. 8. The Holy Spirit does not have an independent, separate will from God. Rather, the Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct, but not separate. 9. We only quickly outlined a refutation of Brittle here, because most good books on the Trinity have already refuted him. Contact our ministry for more resources on this subject. What would you say about that passage where Jesus talks about the unpardonable sin in Matthew chapter 12? He says, sins against my father and me can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit There is no forgiveness, neither in this life or the next. What I would say is blasphemies against the Son of Man could be forgiven, but what the Pharisees had done just prior to that, is that they had seen Jesus' miracle done with miraculous power, and they had attributed, knowingly attributed God's miraculous power to Satan. And so I think Jesus had talked, in my opinion, just for that type of a sin of somebody who they knowingly know the truth, they know that this power of the Holy Spirit is from God, and yet they choose to teach and choose to show that this power is Satan. And in that case, no one can come to God without the Holy Spirit. And if someone continually and deliberately says, you know, I don't want the Holy Spirit to have any use in my life, then eventually the Holy Spirit says, okay. In fact, just to read that passage for clarification, Matthew 12, 31 and 32, Jesus speaking, Wherefore, I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him. But whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." If the Holy Spirit is not God, and He's the angel Gabriel let's say, or if He's like the Muslims say, or if He's a power beam like the Jehovah's Witnesses say, or He's just an impersonal force like New Age or whatever, if He's not God, why would Jesus say something like, this is an unpardonable sin when you blaspheme the Holy Spirit. I mean, to me that would prove the deity of the Holy Spirit. And how do you blaspheme something that's not personal? That's not personal. That's the point. Can you blaspheme this lamp over here? Can you even blaspheme a person? Well, the person isn't God. He's making the error of not understanding what the doctrine of the Trinity is teaching. at all, and therefore he makes a category error along those lines. But it seems like that what's being done in all these arguments is putting these restrictions on God. Now, these restrictions are not found in Scripture. They're not found anywhere else except Brittle's mind is like, well, you know, certain things that I see can't be a certain way. Therefore, God, who's greater than all this, can't be a certain way. Right. He's limiting God and what God can do. Yeah, so maybe when every place where it says God here, you really ought to say Brittle's God. No, not the real guy. And that's exactly a good point on that. Well, let's go to tape 16. I think we've dealt with his irrefutable arguments, which logically don't make any sense. But anyway, tape 16, later Unitarians, and he mentions Emlyn, Lindsay, and Joseph Priestley. And going down the list here to finish this tape series, Battle Week continues to praise Unitarians who attack Christian dogmas. Battlewey also brings up Matthew 19, 16 through 17 about there's none good but God. Point B, Battlewey brings up John 14, 28, my father is greater than I and says Jesus cannot be God. C, Battlewey says the late 18th century saw these Unitarians of which Lindsay said the Holy Ghost was just a force and not a personality. And Battlewey claims that this was original apostolic teaching D, Batawi continues to argue that Jesus cannot be God, as if he were reading from a Jehovah's Witness cookbook. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. If the original apostles taught the Holy Spirit was a force, and Muslims think the Holy Spirit is Gabriel, then Batawi... says that the Muslims are wrong? Well, Bataoui would disagree with him anyway. No, no, no, no. Well, I know what you're saying. But if Bataoui says that the original apostles said the Holy Spirit was a force, and if Muslims say the Holy Spirit is a being, Gabriel, then Bataoui is saying that the Muslim world is all wrong here. Well, that's true. If he's going to accept that it was really true... Original apostolic teaching. You know, that's a good point. You know, and I miss that. You caught it. That's why two heads are better than one. But that's a very good point, because he does mention that. He's saying that this was more the original teaching, that the Holy Spirit was just a force. But, of course, in Islamic teaching, the Holy Spirit is, according to Muslim understanding, this angel Gabriel, which came to Mohammed and had him prophesy the words of Allah. So he's automatically now saying that this stuff would have to relate to the Injil, I would say, or else that's been corrupted too. So he's got problems there. He's got problems there, but... Well, it's not that, but wherever in the Hadith or in the Quran it mentions the Holy Spirit, and the interpretation of most Muslims is Gabriel, And so, you know, he's got pretty major problems there. Oh yeah, he's got major problems. Well, let's finish this list and finish this off and move on. Okay, at point E, Bat always says that outside of John 1 and verse 14, the Bible never shows Jesus to be God. F. Bataoui claims that Unitarianism is true Christianity, not Trinity. G. Bataoui says that Christian theology is mixed with heathen philosophy, particularly the Greek ideas of Logos. H. Bataoui's arguments are constantly dependent on a Unitarian concept of thought only, with no accommodation whatsoever for a Trinitarian line of reasoning on any issue. None good but God. Battawee correctly observes that Jesus was careful in his use of the word good. Yet Jesus explicitly calls himself the Good Shepherd in John chapter 10 verse 11. In Matthew 19, verses 16 and 17, and Mark 10, verse 18, where the man lightly called Jesus good teacher, Jesus only questioned why the man acknowledged Jesus was called good. Jesus never denied He was good or that He was God. In the Bible, 2 Corinthians 5.21, Hebrews 4.15, and 1 Peter 1.18 and 19 say that Jesus had no sin. Jesus even asked in John 8, 46a, Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? The Muslim Hadiths say Jesus was untouched by sin in Sahih Muslim 4, 58, 37, page 1261, Bukhari 4, 641, page 426, and Bukhari 4, 506, page 324. My father is greater than I. In John 1428, in many ways the father was greater than Jesus on earth. Remember Jesus had voluntarily emptied himself of much of his divine glory. That's found in Philippians chapter 2. Even in heaven, the father and Jesus have different roles. John 17. The closest analog we can observe to this is that of a father and son relationship on earth. Jesus is not saying the father is better. essence of nature than he is, but that his role on earth is different than the Father's. Dr. Battawee claims that early Christianity, apostolic times, taught that the Holy Spirit was just a force. Battawee needs to find an apostle or a disciple of an apostle that said that. We have both apostles, such as John and Paul, and disciples of the apostle, Ignatius, etc., that say otherwise. Not only does the Bible and early Christian writing show the worship of Jesus as God, but even a hostile, 2nd century, close to apostolic times, pagan writer, Lucian, the satirist, attests to this fact. Lucian, 2nd century satirist, even this enemy of Christianity said, quote, the Christians, you know, worship a man to this day. the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites and was crucified on that account. You see these misguided creatures." End quote. From his death of Peregrine 11. Just a force? Many people, not only Muslims, tend to believe any argument, no matter how little proof is given, If it coincides with what they already believe, however, these same people demand a great burden of proof for arguments that have a conclusion they disagree with. One mark of being objective is to require the same level of evidence for arguments both pro and con against a given position. It must be mentioned, though, that most Muslims would call Battlewy wrong here. They believe the Holy Spirit is the Archangel Gabriel, not an impersonal force similar to Luke Skywalker's Star Wars version. Quote, outside of John 1 in verse 14, the Bible never shows Jesus to be God, end quote. Dr. Battawee proves from his own argumentation here that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God. Bataoui simply does not believe what the Bible teaches and grasps any straw he can to attack biblical teaching that he does not agree with. Is Dr. Bataoui converting to Unitarianism? Unitarians believe all religions lead to God, which the vast majority of Muslims deny. Bataoui uses Unitarians to attack Bible teachings he does not like. At the same time, he remained silent about Unitarian doctrines he or the Islamic faith would disagree with. Would Dr. Badawi agree that original apostolic teachings declared that all religions lead to God? The Greek word Logos was a technical term used prominently in several philosophical systems that annotate Christianity. Its philosophic use goes back to Heraclitus about 500 BC. It was then used by the Stoics, some of whom influenced Philo, the Jewish philosopher of Alexandria. It was probably inevitable that some would conclude that the appearance of logos in John 1 or biblical texts such as Hebrews evidences the influence of these earlier uses. One of the central and most familiar tenets of Platonism was its disparagement of this earthly world in comparison with the ideal world of rational forms. Philo shared Plato's disregard for the corporeal, sensible world. The writer of Hebrews did not do so, or the Apostle John, for that matter. The Logos Mediator of Hebrews is not Philo's metaphysical abstraction, but a specific, individual, historical person. Philo's philosophical system is totally incompatible with the notion of the Incarnation. The description in Hebrews of Jesus' compassion for his brethren is incompatible with Philo's view of the emotions. Philo's logos could never be described as Hebrews pictures Jesus as suffering, being tempted to sin, or dying. These references are found in the Gospel and the Greeks, pages 70, 90 through 93. Dr. Batawe is astounding. The concept of Jesus being a, the, quote, word is also in the Quran, Surah 345, 4, 171. If the Logos Doctrine were pagan philosophy, Dr. Batawi would be teaching the Quran has been mixed with pagan philosophy also. In fact, Batawi's arguments, rather than being exclusively Muslim, are constantly dependent on a Christian Unitarian concept of thought. And as I mentioned, Battery brings up almost a Jehovah's Witness cookbook to attack the deity of Christ, that Jesus is not God. We have refutations to all that in our literature that you are free to call or write us about. Because of the limitations of television, we don't have time to go into every last detail on this, and we've already spent a lot of time dealing with it already. But basically, all these arguments are fallacious. They can be dealt with from the text of the Bible itself. And what's funny to me is Batawi himself admits there's Bible verses like John 1 in verse 14 that say Jesus is God. But see, his problem is he's not going to accept any passage that says Jesus is God, and it doesn't count. And then he looks at other passages and tries to twist them to say the opposite. So to me, that's not That's rather disingenuous, because to take some verses and turn a blind eye to others, and then make claims like, well, the Bible never says, and in the context the Bible doesn't teach any of this, to me is absolutely ludicrous. What if I did that to the Koran? What if I just take a Koran and anything I want to believe, a preconceived notion, a prior theological commitment. What if I just go to the Quran and take any passages out of there I want to believe and then forget the rest and make it say what I want it to say? Well, that's exactly what Battaway's doing with the Bible. And it doesn't work at all. Any final comments on any of this before we move to the next? If Battaway thinks the only verses in the Bible, John 1, 1 and 14 show Jesus is God. Let me give, there are lots of others, I'll just give one other though. John 20, 28. Thomas says to him, my Lord and my God. Then Jesus says to him, because you have seen me, you have believed. So, Thomas is believing what Jesus intends for him to believe here. And it says, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. So, just in John, those are two. And we can go through Hebrews and Revelation and other places, but we're talking about the Bible, so don't substitute some other thing on us and say, oh, that wasn't in that. But that's just one other verse, at least. you know, maybe in the future about it we can say. At least, you ought to say there are at least two, but actually there are really many more than that, even Colossians and everything else. Any last quick comment before I sign us off? Well, just that for anybody, Muslim, non-Muslim, looking at the Trinity, I guess, why don't you pray to God and just say, God, God, I'm going to let you be whatever you are. I'm not going to force you to be a certain way or another way, force you to be a trinity or not a trinity, but just read the scriptures for yourself and say, God can be a trinity, God could not be a trinity, and just read from scriptures and find out what God really is. And you'll find out that the trinity is consistent with scripture, but don't restrict God and say he has to be a certain way. Let him reveal to you the way he really is in his work. And you don't have to make phony arguments up about what God has said either. Just go with what God says and trust and believe in Him. Okay, with that said, I'd like to offer our free newsletter to anyone that would be interested. Just call or write. Our phone number and address are at the end of the program. We also have our websites. One dealing with Islam, so check that website address out along with our regular website. And we also have free literature dealing with Islam or other religions. Free for the asking. We don't do this for money, that's for sure. So anyway, thank you for being with us. I'm Larry Wessels with Steve Morrison for Christian Answers. Join us again next time. And remember, Jesus is Lord. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And Jesus said, no man comes to the Father except by Him. And it wasn't a Greek philosopher that said that. That was Jesus Himself. God bless you all. you