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All right, wrapping up our discussion
on the Trinity. Last time we were together, we
had kind of talked about some of the false views, and then
we talked about a proper view of what should be expected, that
the Father is not begotten, the Son is eternally begotten. We
had kind of talked about the issues that happen or that could
happen when we look at that word begot or begotten. So our proper
view this Augustinian triangle, which we looked at the last time
For me this is the most helpful way to kind of understand the
Trinity because it tells me what they are and what they're not
So I think we spent time looking at that so we won't rehash that
completely if we have time We'll look at a stupid YouTube video.
That is absolutely entertaining but Old Testament references. So, let me ask you this. Is the
idea of a Trinity only a New Testament issue? We talked about
this last time. Where would you go to look at
the Trinity in the New Testament? What is the Trinity and where
would we go? Blake? Okay, we'll go to the baptism.
Anywhere else you could think of? Okay, the birth of Jesus. Anywhere else you would go that
you could think of to Okay, you can hear Transfiguration,
you can probably make a case for that one. Anything else?
Zedekiah? Maybe Pentecost. I would maybe
go a little bit further or a little bit earlier with the Great Commission. Alright, any of you know what
the Great Commission is? What's the Great Commission say?
No, okay. Yeah, go into the world, make
disciples, but what's the command? Baptizing them in the name of
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So you have a couple different
references. That one's more of a reference to there being at
least three, not necessarily that there are three that coexist.
The baptism is a pretty open and shut case, I feel, because
there is Jesus standing in the water, God speaking, and the
Holy Spirit descending. So they're three separate locations,
three separate functions, yet one God. So let's look in the
Old Testament and see, does it support the concept of a trinity?
Our first reference is Genesis chapter one. All right. Genesis chapter one. Anyone know
it? I just want to quote Genesis chapter one, verse one. Great. Well done. So in Genesis chapter 1 verse
1, you guys know that. So God created, verse 1, looking
at verse 2, if you want to join me there. In verse 2, it says,
the earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the
face of the deep. And then we see what? The Spirit
of God. So we have a distinction between
God creating and the Spirit of God hovering over the face of
the waters. Verse 3, you're back to the concept
of God. Then we skip all the way down
to verse 26. Who's being made in verse 26,
or what's being made in verse 26? Okay, man, Claire, we're informal
here. You can just blurt it out, all
right? So, no, you're good. So, verse 26, God says, someone
got that and want to read it nice and loud? Lettuce? Lettuce. All right. Yes. The creation mandate is
there, but we're looking for what we're looking for right
now. Because Abby, you're right. The creation mandate's there.
But before you get to the creation mandate, you have this concept
of plural usage. All right. So verse 26. And God
said, let us make man in what's the next word? Our image after
our likeness so you have us and then the usage the plural possessive
pronoun of our oh you are two times all right so if god is
only one being only one entity only one person then why is he
using plural pronouns huh okay Yeah, so it's a reference
to the concept of the Trinity. Now, what we run into is, well,
is the fact of which of them is... If you were an Israelite, what's
your perspective on God? Let's back up a little bit. What's
the perspective of the person who's getting the book of Genesis
for the very first time? How do they look at the world?
What influences do they have? Yes, they have God. When did
they get the book of Genesis? Yes, after Moses wrote it. So
what else is going on there? You're right, Jen. It's after
Moses wrote it. OK, so they're in the wilderness. What had they been doing, Cameron?
No, before the wandering. Yeah, that's fine. I will take the correct answer
from anyone. All right. They're slaves in Egypt. All
right. What's going on in Egypt? What's the climate like there?
Not literally climate. OK, but. They have idols. They have multiple
gods. All right. How many of you sidebar? Slightly relevant, though. Any
of you watch Moon Knight? OK, so Moon Knight to kind of
give you an idea, which I have to say Moon Knight was one of
the along the lines of like the creepiest, like darkest of the
marvels, at least my perspective on it. Y'all know, even know,
even know what Moon Knight is. All right, so Moon Knight is
one of the Marvel superheroes, if you will. Yeah, but the whole
premise is this, is why I brought up, because he basically works
for an Egyptian god. And there are other Egyptian
gods that have these humans that are their avatars that work for
them. That's the gist of the series.
But why I brought that up is because if you're an Egyptian,
are you monotheistic? polytheistic, pantheistic, okay? You're polytheistic. What's polytheistic
mean? Many gods. Okay, so keep in mind,
because we talked about this back when we were discussing
the names of God. The name God in Genesis chapter
1, capital G-O-D, that is the name Elohim. That word Elohim
is used for capital G-O-D as well as lowercase g-o-d-s. They're the exact same in Hebrew.
Context tells you whether or not we're talking about gods
or God. So if you're a Hebrew, if you're
a Jew, you're getting Genesis for the first time. I want you
to consider what's going on when you hear, and Elohim, and in
the beginning Elohim created, and then you get down to verse
26, and then God said, let us make man in our image, after
our likeness. And so you kind of wonder, is
this a transition for the Jew to leave their polytheistic beliefs
and to hear that there's only one God? And so we kind of have
to deal with that. It's not necessarily something
that we can just ignore. But at the same time, Moses will
go on to tell the people of Israel, he says, Hear, O Israel, the
Lord our God is one Lord. OK, so we understand he will
clarify that for them. But I want you to kind of have
that in the back your mind when we look at a reference like what's
in Genesis, because these are the people who are hearing this
for the very first time. They don't know who God is. They're
learning who God is. That's why he's giving them a
creation account because they don't know that they were created
and they need to know that. So Old Testament references to
the Trinity first in the sense that there is a plural usage,
like a cohesive three oneness happening at the same time in
those pronouns. Now let's go to Psalm 110. Hopefully
you know what's in Psalm 110. If you don't, it's okay, I'll
forgive you. Psalm 110. Verse one, Psalm 110, verse one. Someone with their Bible ready
to go, anyone want to read that? Go ahead, Claire. All right. So Psalm 110 is a
messianic psalm. It's quoted in the book of Hebrews. But David says in verse one,
the Lord, capital L-O-R-D, all uppercase, which is what name
of God? You should know what actually.
OK, what's the other version of it? Yahweh is the exact same
as Jehovah. So Yahweh says to my L capital
lowercase O.R.D. What does. L.O.R.D. What is the Hebrew word behind
that one? We looked at as well. So all caps L.O.R.D. is Yahweh. What is lowercase
L.O.R.D.? Anyone remember? Yes, I knew it was Lord. I did have that much down. Anyone
remember? So, the New Testament, it'll
get to Kurios. Old Testament, not so much. Old
Testament, it's Adon, or Adonai. So, Yahweh says to Adonai, Yahweh
says to my Adonai well if there's only one God now see this is
and this is kind of the conflict is are we arguing from the perspective
of There is, you believe in many gods and I need you to believe
that there's one God. Or am I arguing from the perspective of you believe
in one God and I need you to believe that there are actually
this trinity of a Godhead? Do y'all understand that like
how you argue this, how you discuss this, depends on what it is you're
trying to convince them of. An Egyptian needs convincing
that there is one God, his name is Yahweh. Okay, someone who
is struggling with the concept of there being a Trinity to know
God just exists in three different forms at different times, and
that's how he reveals himself. Well, then they need the convincing
of, okay, well, if you think there's only one member of the
Godhead, well, then we need to rationalize some of these other
things. That's the perspective we're looking at here. is if
you say there's only one God and one person of the Godhead,
because orthodox belief is that there is one God who exists eternally
in three persons. God the Father, God the Son,
God the Holy Spirit. Why is he having conversations with himself
in our first point of let us make man in our image or in his
different titles? which we see in Psalm 110. The
Lord, Yahweh, said to my Adonai, sit at my right hand until I
make your enemies your footstool. I will take care of this. And
then if you even go down a little further, look at verse four in
case you're wondering. Maybe he's just confused. The
Lord has sworn and will not change his mind. You are a priest forever
after the order of Melchizedek. All right, well then we automatically
know Melchizedek, well we only get him twice, well three times,
twice outside of this passage. Genesis 15 and then Hebrews where
the author of Hebrews makes the case that Jesus is a priest after
the order of Melchizedek. So if this is Jesus who is the
lowercase l-o-r-d, and we can insert that up in verse 1. And
we know who Yahweh is because he tells Moses who he is. So
we have in verse 1, the Lord saying to Jesus, Yahweh saying
to Jesus, I'm going to make your enemies your footstool. So another
reference and their titles. So we have the plural usage titles
and then their roles. Let's flip over a little bit
to Isaiah 61. All right. Now we're looking
at several different roles as far as what's going on within
the Godhead. The Spirit, verse one, the Spirit of the Lord God. So there's a spirit. And there
is this. There has to be a Lord God if
there is a spirit of the Lord God, you'll track him. OK, is
upon me. Why? Because the Lord. has appointed me to bring good
news to the poor. He has set me up to bind the
brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and opening
the prison to those who are bound." So you have the Spirit of the
Lord God being on you, and then you also have the God who is
the Lord that is doing the anointing. So let me ask you this. If you
lived in the Old Testament, how difficult would it be for you
to grab a hold of the concept of the Trinity? If you knew all
that only the Old Testament saints knew, would you have problems
believing that there is a God? Hopefully not. What about the
Spirit of God? Do you think the Old Testament
individuals really understood the Spirit of God completely? Blake says no. Why do you say
no? Okay, so the spirit is there
and he's not there. So the fact that the spirit is
temporary Could cause you to question it. Okay anything else? Okay, the Holy Spirit anoints
people for a specific task, can you give me an example? Okay
Kings good, can you give me another example? Okay, David will be
a king So I want I'm wondering from an
Old Testament perspective, if all you knew was what they knew
in the Old Testament. You didn't have the New Testament
to go back and clarify. You only had the Old Testament.
Would you have problems believing that there is a God? Probably
not. OK, and then we went to the spirit
of God. Blake says, yeah, kind of, because, well, he's kind
of here and kind of not here. He shows up and anoints a king
and then he leaves that king. So maybe it was just kind of
a, maybe he's not really the spirit of God, maybe it was just
a short time period of something. Okay? Anything else other than
anointing kings? Okay, so you have a pillar. You
have a pillar of fire by day, or filler of fire. Okay, you have fire by night,
cloud by day. I'll just eliminate the word
pillar altogether. All right, you have those. Can
you think of any other times in which the Spirit of God Because
this is kind of, at least this is how I kind of track things.
Anytime you have God showing up in physical human form, for
example, Joshua, before he goes in to fight the battle of Jericho,
he meets the angel of the Lord of Hosts. He bows and worships
him. That's Christ. It has to be Christ. It can't be an angel. Angels
don't accept worship. It's not God. God's not bound
by form. So anytime it shows up in human form, it's Christ.
There are examples, some people would categorize like the burning
bush that Moses saw, or the cloud, or the fire, that those would
be theophanies. I don't necessarily think that
they have to be. I'm very comfortable with it being the Spirit of God,
especially considering, why are we, I'll get right, I'll come
to you, Elise. Especially with the fire, the Shekinah glory
that's over the temple, which is I think where one of you was
suggesting with the fire thing, with the Shekinah glory that
comes down over the temple to show that's God's presence. Why
are we OK with that being the Holy Spirit? Fire over the temple
in the Old Testament. We're OK with that being the
Holy Spirit. Well, one, it's not a physical
being, but why are we OK with saying it is the Spirit of God?
because presence of God and fire. Any other times in which you
can think of? Good. The flaming tongues. Where,
Cameron? What flaming tongues? Good. Acts chapter two in the
Sermon and Pentecost. OK, that you're intended You
watched all those Bible project videos. You should have known
that. You're intended with the the tongue of fire over the individual
in Acts chapter two, you're intended to think, oh, this is the temple.
So what was over the temple there, the spirit of God is now here
resting on us. That's the coming of the Holy
Spirit. OK, what about God having a son? Is that easy to understand
in the Old Testament? No. Now, God having a Messiah,
we're OK with. But did they expect that the
Messiah would be God's son? Do you ever stop to think about
that? That he sends only that his it
makes sense for us because we're looking back on it. I don't know, Cameron, you tell
me, did any prophets predict that God would send his son? Come on, Cameron. We're going
to need you to hand back that diploma. All right. I heard someone say Isaiah,
but OK. But what about Isaiah? 41? You're
just throwing out chapters? Isaiah 56? Are you thinking 53? Alright, even looking at Isaiah
53, which is the Which speaks about Jesus being
cut off out of the land of the living it talks about the chastisement
of our peace being Upon him with his stripes. We are healed like
yes, there's atonement But is there the concept that it is
the Son of God? making the atonement See, that's
what I want you guys to rack your brains around. Okay, let's
talk about virgin birth. I Isaiah 9 6 and Isaiah 7 14
behold a virgin shall conceive and you shall call his name Emmanuel okay, which is God with
us All right. Did you find Isaiah 9 6 and 7
14? All right, so we've got a child
who's going to be God. Okay, the son given. And then in 714. Therefore, the
Lord will give him a sign a virgin shall conceive and you shall
call his name Immanuel. She shall bear a son and call
his name Immanuel, which we understand is God with us. So you have some
references to that concept, but it still would have been difficult.
Because even thinking about the disciples as they're walking
around with the Messiah, they're not expecting him to die. So
distinctive roles. Looking at New Testament references.
Well, what do we mean by that? If I can get a couple volunteers
to help out with some of these verses. Why would you take Luke 3? The
first one I need is 1 Corinthians 8. I'm wondering why I can't see
any of my screens, and then I'm like, because I've moved them. All right, I need someone to
find 1 Corinthians 8. Are you raising your hand, Abby?
That'd be great. Thank you. Great. Abby, 1 Corinthians 8.
Jenna, Hebrews 1. Cameron, you know where the book
of Acts is. You can find Acts 5. James has Luke 3. Nathaniel's got Matthew 28, and
then Zedekiah's got Romans chapter 8. The very first one, 1 Corinthians
chapter 8. So in 1 Corinthians chapter 8,
So these first couple references, we're looking at how each of
these members of the Godhead are called God. They are given
the title of God. So 1 Corinthians 8, 6, Abby. All right, so yet for us there
is one God, the Father, from whom all things and for whom
we exist. There's one God and one Lord.
And who's the Lord? Jesus Christ, through whom we
all, whom are all things and through whom we exist. So what
is he doing? He's trying to get you to understand
using the words exist and saying there's one God, there's one
Lord, that they are one. All right, Hebrews chapter 1,
verses 8, 9, and 10. Alright, so in verse 8, "...of
the Son, He says, your throne, O God." Verse 9, two more references
to Him being God. And in verse 10, "...you, Lord,
have laid the foundations of the earth." Acts chapter 5, Cameron. All right, so Peter calling out
Ananias and Sapphira for their lie. He says, you lied to the
spirit. And then he says later, you lied
to God. So which one is it? Well, it's both because the Holy
Spirit's God. And then we get the baptism of Christ. We looked,
we talked about this already, but in Luke chapter three, twenty
one and twenty two. Now, when all the people were baptized
and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the
heavens were open. All right, so at the baptism
we see all three, we've discussed that. In our Great Commission,
Matthew 28, 19. All right, in our Great Commission, we have
a reference to a trinity. And all three indwell us, Romans
8. Romans chapter 8, verses 9, 10,
11. Alright, so reference to the
spirit dwelling within us of God the Father, God the Son,
God the Holy Spirit. Alright, so let's wrestle through some
of these difficulties. So how is Christ eternal, meaning He
exists forever, yet begotten? Well, He's begotten only in His
humanity. Those of you that know geometry,
what's the difference between a line and a ray? Great, so a line extends forever
in both directions. A ray has a definitive starting
point and goes on continually in only one direction. Okay,
not the boy band, not that one direction. All right, so here's
how I've always kind of wrapped my brain around it is Christ
in his deity is the equivalent of a line. It extends forever
in both directions. Christ in his humanity had a
definite beginning point. The moment at which the Holy
Spirit caused Mary's egg to be fertilized, his humanity began
the moment before. Then it didn't exist. You can't
make it exist before it existed. So his humanity has a beginning
point, but he stayed. He stayed in human form. Christ is seated. At the right
hand of the father today in human form. So. Christ sonship. Christ's sonship
is verified as a result of the resurrection and it is not the
cause of it. So please understand that he's
not the son because he resurrected from the grave. He was the son.
Therefore, he rose from the grave. Does that make sense? It's not
that, oh, you did this good job. You get to be my son now. OK,
that's one of the incorrect views on the Trinity, is that God found
some man who was doing a really good job and said, you're going
to be my son now. Alright, what about the firstborn?
Well, what about that word firstborn? Well, the concept of firstborn
simply places emphasis on the status of the eldest and the
double portion receiver Christ deserves the preferential treatment
supremacy and respect from all it's not that he's literally
the firstborn Cameron's the firstborn Okay, he's the oldest Derek,
you're the firstborn too, right? James, you're the firstborn.
Nathaniel, you're the firstborn, right? There are older ones?
Oh, Naomi's the firstborn. I always forget who's older.
Zach, you're the firstborn. Malachi, you're not the firstborn.
Sammy's the firstborn, right? So, Sienna, does that mean she
gets preferential treatment? Sometimes. Yeah, because, I mean,
how often does that come up in your house? Cameron, how often
do you get things because you're the oldest? Really? I don't know
about that. Who got a car first? Okay, who
got a cell phone first? Yeah, all right. Alex, you're
an only child. Zedekai, you're the oldest. How
much do you get in contrast to the others? Yeah, there are perks
to being the oldest. OK, so when we say first born,
like that's something you have to you have to get a hold of
is it's not that he's literally like born born. It's. That he gets the privilege of
the firstborn. All right, something that some people have issue with. I don't think any of you guys
carry a King James Version, but the King James Version in John
3, 16 refers to Christ as God's only begotten son. Y'all know
that? For God so loved the world that
he gave his only begotten son. Trans other translations will
say like one and only son or his only son Okay, the word that's
in there is monogamous. It basically means one of a kind
his unique child It's the only of its kind And so that's one
of the things when people are like, well, what about God saying
that Jesus is his only begotten son? If he's begotten, then he's
begotten. That means he was born. Well,
no, he's not born. We're taking human words that
we understand and we're putting them onto Christ so that we understand
the reverence and the position that he gets. All right. That
will be all of our time today on the Trinity.
The Trinity pt.2
Series Bible Doctrines
| Sermon ID | 915221512283748 |
| Duration | 31:51 |
| Date | |
| Category | Youth |
| Language | English |
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