All right, welcome to our Bible study tonight. I appreciate those who are joined, waiting, ready to go. We are getting into a subject that I consider to be one of the more difficult to teach just because there's so much ground to cover. It's not really possible that I could ever cover it all in one lesson. I picked one specific avenue tonight that I'm going to use to try to answer this question. But to be fair, it's a bigger question than I could answer in one hour long lesson. It would have to be considerably longer to do a justifiable answer to the question. So there's two things to note before I get started. One is I'm going to trust people to watch some of the other videos that I'll be referencing and building some of this upon. And two, I'll trust that people will stick it through and listen to the arguments given and maybe take some of the stuff that I'll throw out at the end extra and study some of that as well. Maybe listen to some of the future lessons where we're going into this a little bit deeper. Because this is what I find to be the consistent reason why people struggle so much about the rapture itself is because it's not a small doctrine. It's not something where the Bible gives you one verse and it's like, this is the verse that answers all the questions you'll ever have about this. It is something that no matter what belief system you're coming into this with today, Let's say you were somebody who were coming into this with a mid-trib, pre-wrath, post-trib, whatever, post any of that kind of stuff, then you still need to do a few things. One, you need to apply the same level of scrutiny that I'm going to apply to the pre-tribulation rapture today to whatever it is you believe. Ask the same questions that you're asking of a pre trip rapture You have to ask it of your own because you have to be able to answer those questions as well You can't I mean It's literally how the cults get around trying to attack stuff as they try to apply questions to the doctrines of the Bible But not to their own beliefs So you have to be able to apply the same level of standard to whatever belief system you're coming into this with tonight But also you have to be willing to study more than just one verse one book one chapter and think okay I've got it all figured out So it's a much bigger doctrine than that. Every piece of the puzzle has to fit. That's always the rule. So with that said, I'm going to go ahead and get into this. I'm going to probably try to avoid the comments a little bit in this one. Because this is one of those subjects that's far more likely to get somebody to come in the comments who is not normally part of the studies and put stuff that's going to distract me. So for our benefit, I'll probably try to avoid the comments during the first part. But if you leave a comment, go ahead. If you have a question, go ahead, do it. If you have a comment, go ahead and leave it and I'll get to it later. That's what I mean. I'm not going to ignore you. I'm just not going to get to it in the middle of my lesson. So we're going to use 2 Thessalonians 2 as our jumping off point. This is for anybody who is against a pre tribulation rapture. This is going to be their main passage. They'll go to to disprove it, so I'm going to go use it as the primary passage for our structure tonight for looking at the question asking is it is the rapture before the tribulation as what's commonly been believed in Baptist churches? Is that correct? I mean, that's what's been preached. Admittedly, and I'll give this up front for anybody who's coming at this with a different belief. If you don't believe that, then let me explain to you the way this Bible study works is that I'm going to look at this using the Bible as our answer as our guide, but I'm going to look at it in a very almost scientific way where we ask a question, we look at the evidence, we compare the results and so forth, and we come forward with a hypothesis and a conclusion. And then you can judge for yourself what you believe about it. But I will admit that a lot of the preaching that goes on in churches today, a lot of the reasons that are given and the proof text and so forth are not good. And I'm going to say up front that I do believe that the rapture is before the tribulation. I'll say that very clearly, very plainly. And I want you to give me a chance to show you why. But I'll admit most of what you've probably heard in your lifetime, if you've heard that kind of preaching is probably not good. It's a lot of stuff out of context, a lot of misunderstandings, a lot of bad proof text because a lot of people preach it without really understanding why because of the reason I gave in the beginning. It's a very complicated doctrine that you can't just read one verse and walk away with all the answers. Even if you were one of the other forms of belief, you couldn't do that because the Bible has way too much when it comes to prophecy. For you to read one book or one passage or one chapter and walk away with all the information you have to compare scripture with scripture So the hypothesis or the question is is the rapture really before the tribulation the hypothesis I'm proposing is that yes it is I do believe it is and I am going to give you some reasoning as to why and so I'm gonna try to explore a slightly different avenues than what we normally do with this because a Lot of the normal proofs and evidences I would give I've done a lot of preaching and a lot of studies on So I'm not gonna try to go down those roads as much I'm gonna try to take some different directions that way I'm giving something new to my people who are used to what I have to say on this subject so second Thessalonians chapter 2 verse number 1 and Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto him, that you be not soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not that when I was yet with you, I told you these things, and now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. Only he who now let us will let until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume in the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness and them that perish because they receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie. that they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Now, this is one of those passages that I think both sides of the aisle really mess it up. The people who believe in the pre-trib rapture and those who don't. I believe both sides really mess it up. And again, we're preaching why we believe in a pre-trib rapture tonight. So if you're coming in late, don't worry, we're going that direction. But I still believe a lot of people who preach in the right doctrine preach this verse very wrong, like how they get to it is wrong when it comes to this verse. And the reason I say that is because you'll have guys and we have people we respect. We have preacher friends of mine who have preached for us in live streams and stuff who will talk about this passage, and they'll say that there was a letter that was written and Paul's responding to that letter and so forth. But you don't have that anywhere in the Bible. To come to that conclusion, you'd have to go outside of the Bible. And so therefore we know it's not a Bible doctrine. The Bible is a self-defining, self-contained book, and if I have to get my doctrine from outside of it, it's not Bible doctrine. It's an opinion at best. Now, the other ways that people come to this is they'll argue the difference between the day of the Lord and the day of Christ. And to be honest, the arguments they make are normally wrong because the day of Christ does normally speak to the rapture. And so when you look at it, he is very much talking about the gathering together. He is talking about the he is talking about the rapture when he says this. Now, the one other thing I want to get into before I actually start trying to explain the passage and show how to rightly divide it is that you notice in this passage, the rapture is a reality. So if you're coming into this lesson and you're expecting me to waste 20 minutes of my lesson showing you that the rapture is in the Bible, then you have to go look for a different lesson on our channel because I've done lessons where I talk about that. But we're approaching this with the understanding the rapture is very much a Bible doctrine. And now we're going to answer the question about is it before the tribulation? And so the people who would tell you that it's not before where they mess this chapter up is they read this and they think, I've got a smoking gun. I have proof now because they think it says that the Antichrist has to come before the church can be taken out. That's not at all what it says. Let's go back and read it more carefully. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together into him. That's the rapture. That's what the rapture is. The rapture, if you want a definition of what it is, because you will not find the word in the Bible, but the doctrine is very straightforward. It is the gathering together of of the believers to Christ and that resurrection that comes with it that's described in First Corinthians 15 and several other passages. And we'll read some of those later on. He says, I'm writing concerning this concerning gathering together in verse two, that you be not soon shaken in mind or troubled neither by spirit nor by word nor by letter as from us. And that's where people will argue the letter. But that's he doesn't say there was a letter written. He's saying, don't worry if someone does write a letter. as that the day of the Lord, as at the day of Christ is at hand. Now, the thing is the day of the Lord would refer back, would refer more to the tribulation itself and the, especially the second coming of Christ. But he doesn't say the day of the Lord. He does say the day of Christ. And if you look, it's not said much. It's only a couple, two, three, four times in the Bible and all of them do point to the rapture. So that argument by trying to change it around and say, well, it's talking about the second, the second coming doesn't work either. So when we get to verse three is where the real issue comes about It says let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come Except there come a falling away first and that the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition So you notice if you pay careful attention to the wording the actual answer is right here in this verse everything you need to know is right here in this verse that the first thing that's going to come the only thing listed as coming before the rapture is is that there will be a falling away. So what happens is a lot of people read this and they come to the conclusion, okay, the rapture has to come and the Antichrist has to be revealed first. But he doesn't say they both come first. He says the falling away comes first and that, that meaning, you know, okay, and after that or next or so forth, and that the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. So the way that's worded, you could read it if you really, really wanted to, to say that it's saying it would come first. But if you pay attention to the rest of the chapter, what it would seem to say more so is that the Antichrist being revealed would immediately follow after that. That day, if the day has come that Christ is gathering together the believers and the resurrection is happening, that that same day the Antichrist is going to be revealed. So it's more of a warning that, look, you know, before this is going to happen, there will be a great falling away. So the fact that you haven't seen that means that, you know, you don't have to worry about it. But the real evidence is that if it had happened, the Antichrist would have been revealed already. And so this actually answers two questions. The other question, and this is another one of those issues where a lot of times preacher of doctrine is right, but the preaching is not so good as far as proving it. is you have a lot of arguments about, well, does the rapture begin immediately, or the tribulation begin immediately after the rapture? And that would say, yes, the answer is it has to begin immediately because the breaking of this barrier, the thing that's holding it back from happening, is the rapture. And that's where you see that the rest of the context really does point in that direction. Now, I know there's people who don't like it. There's people who fight tooth and nail, whatever they can, to try not to see it in the passage. But again, you have to use the same level of scrutiny no matter what you come to this with. So verse four says, whoso opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God. This is just a statement of who he is. This is not saying he will do this before or even immediately, because this is stuff that takes place later on. This is even after the midway point. So if you tried to believe that this was happening before, you'd have to switch to be a post trip rapture if you were middle or so. It says who so opposes than exalted himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped So that he is he as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God Remember ye not that when I was with you I told you these things and now you know that now you know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time For the mystery of iniquity doth already work. So he's saying look there's something you already know this and he's telling the Thessalonian church that you know this because I already talked to you about this and When I was there, I explained to you that he would not be able to come because there's something holding him back. And he says, now you know what it is that's holding him back until the time that he can be revealed. For the mystery of iniquity does already work. Only he who now let it will let until he be taken out of the way and then shall that wicked be revealed. So now what comes next again is a statement of who he is, the stuff about the Lord consuming him. So if you go back to the context, and again, good Bible doctrine should mean that you look at the context, not that you just take one verse out of this chapter and say, okay, I've got it all figured out. The context says that you can know that the tribulation period has not come and that the rapture hasn't come and all this kind of stuff, because if the rapture had happened, then now you would have the Antichrist being revealed, and he goes back and explains that there's something, someone, it's referred to as a person, he, he who now letteth will let, someone is holding back the Antichrist from being revealed. Now, it'd be easy to say that would be God the Father. The problem is that says that person's in the world and he's working, he's holding back the mystery of iniquity that's already working in the world, you know, the Antichrist and his kingdom that's already working in the background. He's holding it back from being revealed and that he'll be taken out of the way. So God the Father is not going to be taken out of the way. God the Son is already on the throne in heaven. There leaves two decent possible answers to that. One is the Holy Spirit himself, the ministry he took upon himself at the day of Pentecost, wherein Jesus said when he comes, so people who struggle with, well, how can the Holy Spirit be taken away? Well, how could he come? You know, it's a dumb argument. I'm not trying to be rude, but that's a dumb argument when you argue, how can the Holy Spirit be taken away? when he literally has multiple passages saying when he comes, when he comes, when the comforter has come, and so forth. Because Jesus was teaching that his ministry that began at the day of Pentecost was him coming in a different way. Something was changing in the way that he was coming. And so he also could be taken away in those terms. And that would make sense because he's talking to the church at Thessalonica that the person's already in the world at that point. and that they'll be in the world all the way to the point that the Antichrist is a Until that person is taken away and the Antichrist is able to be revealed So really good, typically assumed answer for someone who's studied this passage and trying to rightly divide it is, okay, it's the Holy Spirit. Because who else could be holding back the mystery of iniquity and who else could have been in the world from the time of the Church of Thessalonica until the time of the Antichrist being revealed, and who's powerful enough to do those things and so forth. And the Holy Spirit's a good answer. A friend of mine who is a great preacher preached that he believes it's a church, and that's also a good answer. However, I think if you really think about it, the two things are going hand in hand together, the idea, but he's convinced that it's more so speaking to the church itself. And the same rules and principles would apply. He's talking about the church, the Bride of Christ, more so than the local individual New Testament church, the church, the body of Christ, the broader sense, which is not the common use of the word church, but just, you know, you do see it. And so both of those arguments could be made very well, but both of them require the same end result. And that end result is the Holy Spirit's ministry as it is now could not end until the rapture took place. Because there's a promise to the church that it will not end so long as we're working here. And then also the same thing, the church will always be here until there is this calling away, until there is this rapture where we're gathered together and receive our glorified bodies. So most of my people who know our studies, you'll already be familiar with what I'm saying, but I'm using this as a jumping off point, so don't worry. Now, what you have then is that the rapture is very much a reality. But the church is being told, look, you don't have to worry. If the rapture had already occurred, the Antichrist would already be here. You have all these things. The point is, there's an evidence being given that for the church, we're not really looking for the Antichrist to come. and to be the next sign or the wonder, we're looking for the fact that if the rapture happened, then that happens. But this is a passage that's normally used in the negative. But let's start just by taking this principle from here, that the rapture is very much a reality. So the rapture being a reality is one of the most important things we can start with in this study. Then we have to try to answer the question, The multiple questions really about okay, then where is the church then who is in the tribulation period what's going on? What's it all about? And this is where things to be honest with you really start to pan it out and make the most sense is when you start going down this road But let's while we're in Thessalonians. Let's look at some of the others two really great passages in first Thessalonians We need to look at so the first of these is in chapter 4 will read verse 13 through verse 18 and But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then they which are alive and remain shall be called up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore, comfort one another with these words. So we as Christians are to be comforting one another with the understanding that the rapture, which is the resurrection of the believers, I'm not going to get into it tonight. I do believe it's some people limit it just to the church. I believe it's Old New Testament. I have good reason for that. A lot of good Bible reason for that. but the rapture being saints of up until that point. So what you have then is that the rapture is supposed to be a doctrine of comfort for us, that we're supposed to be looking for this knowing that it is a reality. So I said I wouldn't waste a lot of time trying to prove that the rapture is a Bible doctrine. I'm just hitting a couple notes to show it quickly. We've already seen two passages where it's clearly taught that there is a gathering together of the believers in the air to be resurrected into a glorified body to be with Christ. So that doctrine is very much a Bible doctrine, but we're trying to define how this affects the church, especially in regards to a timeline. So let's go over one chapter to 1 Thessalonians 5. Verse one, but of the times and the seasons brethren, you have no need that I write unto you for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord, uh, so cometh as a thief in the night for when they shall say peace and safety, then sudden instruction come with upon them as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief. You're all the children of the light and the children of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore, let us not sleep as do others, but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep in the night, and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love and for a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not appointed us unto wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore, comfort yourselves together and edify one another, even as also ye do. Now, there's two major thoughts in here I want you to notice. One is he says that the day of the Lord is coming on this world as a thief in the night. But for us, it's not something coming as a thief to catch us off guard. It's something that we know. OK, something's going to happen before this. Something has because remember, the day of the Lord is referring to his second coming. Can often be used I'll show you this it can often be used to talk about a lot of the events during the tribulation Especially the last half of the tribulation So he's saying that doesn't surprise us It shouldn't surprise us because there is something that has to come before that something that we're looking for Now, the other thing to note is that he does say that God has appointed us to wrath, not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. And so we do know that tribulation, especially again, the last three and a half years, that great tribulation, the word wrath is thrown around quite a bit. There's terms like Jacob's trouble. The day of his wrath and so forth to show That there the the wrath of God is this being referred to in this passage based off the context alone Tells us he's talking about that tribulation and especially and I'll allow this because we'll get to some of the other stuff later Especially for the last three and a half years. So, you know at this point You could not put a rapture at the end. You have to have it in the middle or the beginning, at least based off of what you read there. Based off of 2 Thessalonians, it would have to be at the beginning because you would have to have it before the man of sin could be revealed. So before that seal could be broken to release him, you would have to first have it. So you have a little bit of a timeline being established then, but you have this very important understanding that The wrath that's going to be poured out during that tribulation is not intended for the church. And this is where the biggest, most important doctrine that gets so blatantly ignored by those who preach a middle tribulation, whichever term you want to use, preacher, post wrath, Mid-trip, they're pretty much the same doctrine. You just slightly change it and package it because it sells better You can sell more books that way. That's I mean, let's be honest. That's where most of the the changes of those titles came in I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. That's where you come from But if you study the history of that doctrine, that's mostly where it's come about From men who want it to market their own touch their own thing on this to put their stamp on the doctrine Now, either of those, you have the issue that they ignore this, and especially a post-tribulation rapture ignores this, that God makes it very clear that the purpose of the tribulation, especially when you get an Old Testament doctrine, has nothing to do with New Testament believers. The church and the New Testament believers, you know, they there's nothing there about them. It's always about Israel. And that's what I want to show you as we kind of move along in this a little bit before I get there. Let me go to second Peter, second Peter, chapter number three, verse seven through verse 13. He says, but the heavens and the earth, which are now by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is long suffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with a fervent heat. The earth also, and the works that are therein, shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of person ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, Nevertheless, we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." So think about this passage. What is the church told to be looking for? we're told to be looking for Christ's gathering. We're very specifically told we're not looking for the tribulation. And if you want a deeper study in this, because again, I'm trying to cover what normally is taken multiple studies in one lesson. So if you want a deeper study on what this passage is actually about, look for our message on the new heavens and the new earth, because there you'll find that the burning and the great fervent heat and the destruction he's talking about is very much the tribulation period. And the new heaven, the new earth he's talking about is the kingdom of Christ, the millennial reign and the earth being restored to a Garden of Eden like state, instead of being left with the world oceans being turned to dead men's blood and the earth being burned and destroyed the way it was in the tribulation period. I know that's another doctrine that's commonly mistaught, but again, you can see it very plainly. If you go listen to that message, I guarantee you that you won't walk away with the exact same opinion you had before. You may not agree with me, but you won't walk away exactly with the same opinion you had before if you disagree with what I'm saying now. and so we know that we're being told then that we're not supposed to be looking for the day of the Lord and this fervent heat that's being poured out and the wrath that's being poured out on this world and the judgment that's not for us he said he says that but the day of the Lord comes a thief in the night in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with the fervent heat and there is also in the works therein shall be burned up seeing that all these things shall be dissolved what manner of person ought you to be and all in all holy conversation and godliness looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat nevertheless we according to the promise look for new heavens and new earth and We're in dwelleth righteousness. So our eyes are not supposed to be focused on The destruction that's coming to this world. The intention is that our eyes would be focused on First the promise of his coming because that's the context I probably should have started earlier so you would have that context when you think about 2nd Peter 3 4 and Saying where is the promise of his coming for since the father's fell asleep all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation so we're being told that our eyes are supposed to be on the coming of Christ and knowing that this world is going to be passed away during the tribulation period and looking forward to the world that's going to be established during Christ's kingdom, the new heavens and new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. So we're told to focus on what's coming next, his coming, and then what's coming after, not the tribulation period itself. None of that seven years then is being told for us to look forward to. Then Joel chapter number one, this is where we're going to start to see that the tribulation period is always focused on Israel. Like there's no focus on church of anything that you would associate as the church. There's no focus on that whatsoever in the Old Testament at all. And you could argue it's about it being a mystery, but I would argue that it's more so to do with the fact that the church is never mentioned as being in the tribulation. And for those who would use the argument of saints, I'll talk about that in a little while. Joel chapter number one, verse 13 to verse 15. Gird yourselves and lament, ye priests, how ye ministers of the altar! Come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God, for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God. Sanctify ye fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord. Alas for the day, for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. It is not meat to cut off. I cut off before our eyes. Yay joy and gladness Is not the meat cut off from our eyes. Yay joy and gladness from the house of our God The seed is rotten under we can stop there. The point is you see he's told Joel is very much talking to Israel He makes it clear. He's talking to Israel. There's several phrases that he uses to Throughout it and what is the call here? You'll even notice a lot of your Bibles a lot of times will have a header a call to repentance and That's what this is. He says, gird yourselves and lament, ye priests, how ye ministers of the altar come lie and wait, lie and lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God, for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholding from the house of your God. Sanctify ye a fast, call you a solemn assembly. All of these things are things for Israel. Like, I don't know where you'll find me, where the church, find where the church is told to call a solemn assembly. The inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, that's all stuff that should be pointing your mind toward Israel You would only think about something other than Israel when reading those verses if somebody perverted the scripture and told you to And so they're told to be the ones who are looking for the day of the Lord coming on them and the repentance that should come in their heart during that time Not not New Testament believers, not the church Joel chapter number 2 verse 1 through verse 3 Now it says blow you the trumpet in Zion and sound an alarm in my holy mountain Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble for the day of the Lord cometh for it is nigh at hand a day of darkness and of gloominess a day of clouds and of thick darkness as the morning spread upon the mountains a great people and strong there hath not been ever a The like neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devours before them and behind them, a flame burneth in the land. The land is as the Garden of Eden before them and behind them, desolate wilderness, yea, nothing shall escape them. Now what is he describing? He's describing judgments from the middle of the tribulation period, and it's the last three and a half years. I'm going to acknowledge that. It's the last three and a half years that he's describing judgments as being a part of it. So Israel is who he's talking to. Blow you the trumpet in Zion, which I understand that's where Christ will put his kingdom, but that hasn't happened yet in this verse. This is talking to Israel to blow the trumpet in Zion and the alarm in his holy mountain there Zion So this is talking to Israel and let the inhabitants of the land Which again should point you to Israel because we're not the inhabitants of the land. God doesn't talk about us that way That's the way he talks about them. This book is being written to them You look at it read the whole thing and I don't know how you could take it to be about anybody else Unless again, you're trying to change the scripture So when you come to this, it says that there's coming a day of darkness of clouds or thick darkness that's being described in Revelation when the pit opens and these soldiers come out and then you have this army coming out that burns everything in their path. So this is showing you part of the reason I put this in here is to show you not only is Israel the one who's receiving instruction about the tribulation period and what to do and to turn back to God and so forth, but also to show that the day of the Lord is we normally use it to talk about his second coming, but God used the term to describe the tribulation period for the most part as a whole, but especially even the last three and a half years. So let's go then to Matthew 24 and see who the tribulation is about. Matthew 24. Matthew 24, verse number 15. When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth let him understand. Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains. Let them which be on the housetop come not down to take anything out of his house. Neither let him which is in the field return to take his clothes and woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days. But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For then shall be great tribulations such as was not from the since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Except those days be shortened. There should be no flesh be saved alive, but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened all right now think about Think about what he's saying in this passage Now, I am pausing a little bit because I meant to mention in my last verses in Joel that you'll find almost the exact same things in Zephaniah and in Isaiah. Joel, I think, says it more like it's more expressed there. But Zephaniah for sure talks about it and Isaiah talks about it a lot, especially in regard to that, the second coming of Christ. You cannot have a good doctrinal second coming of Christ unless you build it a lot, very strongly out of Isaiah. Isaiah is the book that talks about that probably more. Than any other at least some of the most important stuff especially in regards to the millennial reign of Christ But here you have this statement concerning the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel Stand in holy place and he tells us, you know He tells this is a person and it's time at the Antichrist standing and declaring himself to be God something We've already seen spoken of in second Thessalonians and so forth that you this idea of him presenting himself in such a way So he tells us that when that happens, which we will put in the middle, we believe that's the middle of the tribulation. that when that happens, let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." So again, that has nothing to do with us. We are not the men of Judea. God does not call us that. And then he says, and this is the one that's really important, like even if you really believed in replacement theology and you tried to make Judea somehow about the church, you could never make verse 20 in the Sabbath about the church. The only way you can make the Sabbath about the church is if you reinstate the Sabbath and put new doctrine in your Bible to try to make the church have to keep the Sabbath day. At which point, if you're that far off the rails, I probably can't help you in the one lesson. It's going to take a lot more than what I have time to do tonight to help you. So the fact that he's telling them about the Sabbath day and he's talking to them about Judea means that this cannot have anything to do with the church. He's talking to them. He's talking to Jews in the first place, but he's talking to Israel as a nation. He's talking to them as a people about the fact that, look, this is going to happen. And when it does, you're going to have to run for your lives because he is going to come and he's going to kill those of you that won't bow down and worship him. And you better pray that it's not on the Sabbath day when he starts his attack And you men in Judea better flee because this is about Israel. It's not about the church now I'll show you some stuff about the rapture in Matthew 24 in a little while. I'll get to there later Daniel chapter number nine. Daniel, this is where you see the abomination of desolation mentioned before. And again, this, this, what I'm getting ready to read is one of those things like we've done a short form study on this, uh, where we talk about why God allows the tribulation period. That's another one of these unique insights and Bible prophecy videos. I would encourage you to go back and watch it. I will probably do another study on this in the near future or I may just take a study my friend has done on this and do more of something like a reaction to it because he did such a fantastic job on this. One of the best messages I've ever heard on it. That's brother James Knox for anybody wants to look it up It's a I think this title something like the way the read the way to read the prophecy So I either just gonna do a message what I'm repeating most of what he said Or I may even just take his directly and do like a reaction to it because it was so good but if you want to know why What I'm getting ready to say is the way it is I would encourage you to either go back and watch like the short version where we talked about it or a much better version like where he talks about that and So Daniel chapter 9 verse number 24 says, 70 weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city to finish the transgression and to make the end of sins and to make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness and to still up the vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and three score and seventy and two weeks. And the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself. And the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are determined. and you shall confirm a covenant with many, and he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, and in the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, no overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation that is determined shall be poured upon the desolate. So you see that this is what Jesus was referring to. You know that he's talking about this happening in the tribulation. So somebody who tries to say that Daniel's 70 weeks is not, the 70th week is not about the tribulation period, Every argument they have is going to be wrong based off of the fact that Jesus himself specifically said that it is that it's in the middle of that. You also have the fact that they'll make the arguments that a week is not seven years and so on and forth. But I'll point out to you, if you're still struggling with the fact that a week just means a set of seven, it doesn't have to mean seven literal days. It can mean seven years. It can mean seven months, whatever. It's a set of seven. Consider that when Jacob worked for Rachel, it says that when he was tricked and he married Leah and he goes back and he talks to Laban, Laban said, fulfill ye her week and then you can marry her. So how long did he work for Rachel? Did he work for seven days or for seven years? Because the Bible says it was seven years, but Laban called it a week. He said, fulfill her week. So a week very much can be seven years, depending on how you use the word. Have you let the Bible define your terminology and not somebody else? So with all that said, we know this is about the tribulation period. Who does this passage say that it's about and what is it about? Let's go back and reread verse 24. 70 weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city. So who is that? Well, he's talking in Old Testament. So you can assume thy people is talking about Israel. It's normally would be talking about them. Not much reason to assume anything else. upon the Holy City, he certainly makes it clear he's talking about Israel because he's talking about Jerusalem now, to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins and to make reconciliation for iniquity. All right, here's how you can know it's not talking about us because my sins, my transgressions, my reconciliation, all that was paid for and purchased on Calvary's cross. There doesn't need to be seven years of tribulation for my transgressions to be finished. There doesn't need to be seven years of tribulation to make an end of sins for me. There doesn't need to be seven years of tribulation to reconcile my iniquity because I was reconciled unto God on January the second of 2000. That was all taken care of for me. I'm not waiting for a tribulation period for me to turn back to the Lord and give my heart to Him and to bring an everlasting righteousness and to seal up the vision prophecy and anoint the most holy. So you have all those things being mentioned. All of it's being mentioned in reference to Israel. There's nothing pointing in any other direction that passage. And there's a good reason why it couldn't be about the church is because those things were done for us. Like when Jesus died on the cross, that was it. Like it's paid for, it's taken care of, but the reconciliation. That came about when you trusted Christ as your Savior. You were reconciled unto Him. Israel's sins were paid for on the cross, sure, but they still have to go through a time of tribulation to pay for what they've done because you have so much Old Testament prophecy about the fact that God is going to chase them, He's going to punish them. and that seven years of tribulation is set up as a time for them to be punished. Again, Zephaniah, Joel, Isaiah, Malachi, so many books of your Old Testament are talking about this. The fact that God has set aside and reserved a period of time, here we're defining it as seven years. He's reserved aside a period of time wherein Israel is going to be punished and chastened for their sins until God is satisfied, the punishment is done, reconciliation can be made. Then following that you have the Messiah being anointed as you know, the most holy being anointed so everything and that says it's about Israel So my point is like if we're reading the Bible so far like if you started in your Old Testament you're reading for And you've got up to the point of even Thessalonians. You have no reason to believe that the tribulation period has anything to do with the New Testament. It has nothing to do with the church. It's entirely about Israel and it was set up in the Old Testament. It wasn't something that just came about in the New Testament. It was established in the Old Testament. Most of your minor prophets are speaking to it in some degree. Many of your major prophets are speaking to it in some degree. The fact that God has set aside a period of time where he's going to deal with Israel because of their iniquity. Yes, their sins were paid for on the cross, but they have not yet been reconciled to God. And they have not yet been punished for the fact that he promised them they would be punished. Even out aside salvation aside, he has promised them as a nation, they're going to be punished. And that's why it's the time of Jacob's trouble, not the time of, you know, the church's trouble, the time of, uh, the bride's trouble or so forth. It's the time of Jacob's trouble because the tribulation period is about Israel. There's nothing about the church going on during that period now With that then let's go answer the question Because one of the biggest questions you're gonna have at that point is okay Then who is going through the tribulation like what's going on during the tribulation? where are the believers where Israel and so forth and this one is one where I'm gonna have to rely on people either listening to messages that have already been recorded or Or I'm going to have to rely on people having a knowledge of them having already listened to them. Because I've given to me what I think is a fairly definitive answer. I think it's, I've listened to people argue with it, but they've never given a good argument. as to why the 4 and 20 elders represent the church, or Old and New Testament saints. I'm sorry, not just the church, but all the saints up until the point of the Tribulation period, those who've been raptured out. I've given plenty of good reason. Maybe I'll highlight some of that towards the end of this. The one argument I've been given by anybody at any point, I hear it over and over again, is tribulation saints not being in the Bible when very clearly they're saints being saved out of tribulation. That's where the idea of tribulation saints come from. It's not because we're trying to make up a word. You can call them something else if you want to. You can call them the saints that were saved out of tribulation. You can call them the martyrs, as they're referred to many times in the book of Revelation. But there's a question about saints. That's the question that gets asked many times. What about saints? Who is the saints in Revelation? Now, there's another video I'm going to have to ask you to put some time in. You do your homework and go watch. And that's where I answer the question about who is the innumerable multitude in Revelation chapter number seven. Because most of your mid-tribulational doctrines will be destroyed if you pay attention to those two lessons. The four and twenty elders and the multitude there of Revelation chapter seven. I'll get to that in a minute. I'll explain why that's such a serious stabbing blow for that. But we have to answer the question. What does it mean when the Bible says saints in the book of Revelation? Who is it talking about? Because even recently somebody who's been watching some of the videos somebody and I say this appreciatively not as like a negative thing or attack Mentioned in one of their comments that the the Saints in the New Testament only refers to the church It's like where do you get that from because the word Saint in the entire Bible is just talking about saved people Some of people who've actually put their faith in God It's kind of like when you're trying to distinguish the difference between national Israel and spiritual Israel those who are Jews indeed and those who are Jews because I'm a child of Abraham and so forth. It's a word that allows you to cut past that like Nowadays we have to we struggle like yes, my dear you born again. They say oh, yeah, I'm born again Are you saved? Yeah, I'm saved and the truth is like they're using the word wrong So even if you ask them, are you a saint you wouldn't get anywhere cuz it's a yeah. Yeah, I'm a saint and But the point is, it's a word that cuts past all the red tape and distinguishes this person is saved. There's no question. When God calls somebody a saint, he means that it is a person who has genuinely put their faith in God. And I'll show you that Revelation defines the word that way in Revelation chapter 20 and verse 9. Revelation chapter 20 and verse number 9 says, And they went up on the breadth of the earth and passed the camp of the saints about and beloved city and fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. So again, Beloved City is Jerusalem. There's no reason, you cannot give any good Bible reason to read that as anything else. People try to make it the church and all kinds of crazy stuff, but it's definitely talking about Jerusalem because God didn't change the word just to make somebody else's doctrine fit in the Bible. But you have the Saints being set upon by the king of the Antichrist or This is I'm sorry the king of the Antichrist. This is after this is the this is by the devil and by the people he gathers together I didn't get raised the wrong terminology here this by the devil and the people he's gathered. Yeah, they're saints are being set upon that They're gathering around them And they're going to attack their Jerusalem Now you follow doctrine the church should mostly be in the you know The New Testament believers and stuff should be in New Jerusalem at this point What should be hovering over top of Jerusalem not in Jerusalem? It should be hovering over the world In fact, I believe it not a necessarily over a fixed spot so much as the world's revolving and you have it working like a Sun for the world that's a whole nother thing to get into though and But you have this idea that people in Jerusalem are being called saints, and you have the people being gathered, but look at how the word saint seems to be defined. Let's read the verse again, because I probably got you a little bit sidetracked there. And compass the camp of the Saints in the beloved city and fire came down from heaven and devoured them I'm realized now. I think I wrote down revelation 14. That's that's why I keep getting mixed here Revelation 20 is talking about the Saints being in camp revelation 14 is the one I'm looking for for a definition. My apologies. I Revelation 14 and verse number 12 It says and here's the patience of the Saints Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus? So you want to see what a saint is a saint is someone who has their faith in God You can say it like that because Jesus is God So if you have a problem you saying that way you have a problem with your doctrine I guess because Jesus is God so a saint is someone whose faith is genuinely in God someone who has trusted in God and So Abraham believed God and was counted in him for righteous. Therefore, Abraham would be called a saint in the Old Testament many times. You have David believing God and being counted in him for righteous. You know, it's imputed not for works, but righteous for faith's sake. And so you have David as a saint many times in the Old Testament. You have in the New Testament those who have put their faith in Christ being called saints. And the word saint is not a New Testament word. It's a word throughout the Bible. In the Old Testament, it's used 39 times. In the New Testament, 62 times. So it is used more in the New Testament, but I think that's more to deal with the fact that the church is made up of not just Jew and Gentile. It's a mixture. It's not just one. And I think it's more to get around that and identify, look, we're talking about believers. The rest is irrelevant. We're talking about believers. You even should understand that the word saint is actually a word that connects the Old and the New Testament together by showing that those who have put their faith in God, Old or New Testament, are saints. So it's very important to take that. So here's my point. If someone wanted to argue that the word Saint changed in the New Testament, I would ask the question, when is the first time the word Saint is used in the New Testament? Because the first time the word Saint is used in the New Testament is Matthew 24. It's in verse 15. I'm sorry, not Matthew 24, Matthew 27. I'm getting ready to read the passage wrong again like I did a moment ago. But Matthew 27 in verse number 52. Matthew 27 verse 52 is Jesus' resurrection. It says when the grave were opened, many of the saints which did sleep there at Jerusalem came out of their graves. It says the bodies of the saints came forth. The first time the word saints is used in the New Testament is not talking about the church. Even if you wanted to argue, which I think you would have a hard time arguing if you say the church started with Jesus and his disciples, because so much of what we define as a church doesn't actually start until the day of Pentecost. And I used to argue that it was Jesus and his disciples. But the more I've appreciated the doctrine of the church and understood the significance and the importance of a local New Testament church and the Holy Spirit and so forth, I've come to the realization that, okay, God laid the foundation for sure. He built the bridge for sure, however you want to say it, because I know people define it in a lot of different ways. But the church's actual beginning would have to take the day of Pentecost. Saying that even if you want it to ignore that and say that because it's in Matthew Those people must have been the church because they must have been part of that You still are gonna have a hard time trying to separate that and say well then in the New Testament the word Saint simply means the church you would have to get around a lot of doctrines and twists to say that it's exclusively a word that means the church in the New Testament and because that's not the case at all. Somebody probably said that. Somebody probably sounded really smart when they said that. But the fact is, the word saint is used old in New Testament over and over again to mention and talk about those who are saved. And in the New Testament, it means the same thing. It's saying many people who were saved, that they came forward when Jesus was raised from the dead. The power of resurrection was so great that they came forward at the same time their bodies came out in resurrection as well. So saying that, the argument that the word saints would be talking about the church would require you to have to ignore a lot of other stuff. The Bible as a whole for context, the fact that in the New Testament the word saint doesn't change, it's still talking about believers. And you have people who are not part of the church being referred to as saints in the New Testament because it doesn't change. It still just means a word for believers. And so it's just talking about believers during the tribulation period when he talks about saints in the book of Revelation. But there's some other things I would consider, and this is an argument people don't like, but it's one you do have to consider, is that Revelation, if you look at the words and the breakdown of the words, in Revelations 1 through 4, the word saint is never used. The word church is used 20 times. The word church or churches. 20 times you have the New Testament believers, the church, being talked about. Unto the church here and so forth. So 20 times God talks about believers up until the point of Revelation chapter four as being the church. From that point on, from Revelation 4 all the way up going through, the word church we know is never used again. The word saint is then used, I think, about 13 times. And every time it's simply talking about believers that are going through the tribulation period, and many times has language that would connect it to Israel, especially like we saw there with the saints being surrounded at the end of the tribulation. and you have the fact that they're at Jerusalem and so forth. So there's a lot of language that would associate it being more to do with Israel. In fact, I'll be honest, you would have an easier time arguing that the saints in the book of Revelation are Israel, the Jews that are getting saved, which are talked about in Zephaniah and Joel and other passages we've read tonight. You would have an easier time arguing that the saints are them than you would be that it's the church. So if you want it to do as I've known some people then you want to ignore people outside of Israel getting saved in the Tribulation you'd have an easier time making that argument than you would be to say that it's the church because there's nothing in the language that would support that the language seems to indicate that the church is not there for the rest of the book of Revelation and I'm gonna agree with you if you have a preacher who gets up and preaches Revelation chapter number four And he says that the rapture is when John's told to come up here there. I'm gonna agree that that's not the rapture The rapture if that was the rapture John would have had to receive his glorified resurrected body and he could have never died Later on in his life on the Isle of Patmos and so forth. I'm gonna completely that's not the rapture and The words are similar. Sure. There's a lot of connection. There's some picture to it You can make some decent arguments, but understand that's not at all what that's intended in that verse the fact is One of the arguments I have made and will continue to make is that the rapture has already taken place by time you jump up to heaven in Revelation chapter number four, because now you're looking to what shall be. You're going into the future. You have the things that are here and so forth. Now you're going into the what shall be the future prophecy. And here's the argument. There are a few crowns that are mentioned for believers that are repeatedly talked about as being received at the coming of Christ when he comes to gather the church. There's a judgment that's going to come when Christ comes to gather his church. You study it, you'll find that that's what it says. Over and over, the judgment for believers is when he comes to gather the church. It's not after the thousand years, like the great white throne judgment. It's when he comes and gathers his church. It's at the resurrection when he comes to gather them. So if you look at the 420 elders, you'll notice that almost everything that is promised to the church in the first half of the first four chapters of Revelation, especially three and four, sorry, two and three. So the first three chapters of Revelation, everything is promised to the church in those chapters. The 420 elders have that. And we're told that their number is not literally 24 because their number is 10,000 times 10,000 and thousands of thousands, which is a term that the Bible uses to describe like something that's innumerable is something that we can't really, we couldn't calculate, like we couldn't understand it. Even the same term is used in Jude when he's talking about the saints coming back with Christ, and he says he'll return with tens of thousands of his saints. So, you know, if you're going to try to take it literal in one verse, you have to take it literal in the other. And it's not all the saints that would come back with. And if you try to say that 10,000 has to be 10,000 in every place or 10,000 times 10,000 and so forth, the word 10,000 is mostly used symbolically in the Bible number to represent a number that's beyond our calculation, beyond our comprehension. So like when he told Israel, you know, one of you will chase away a thousand, two of you will chase away 10,000. It's a pretty straightforward thing once you look for it. So you have this group, which number is innumerable, who sing a song that we've been redeemed of every tribe, nation, tongue and race. And it's not they or somebody else. It's we have been. So, you know, they can't be 24, you know, so forth. You know, it has to be so it can't just be Old Testament saints because they've been redeemed of every tribe, nation, tongue and race. So all those doctors that try to make it something else like just for 24 literal guys and so forth doesn't match the description that's given to the people nor the song that they are singing. But the biggest thing is, as I said, you notice all those gifts that were promised to the church, many of them are seen with the 420 elders, and just the basic law of Bible understanding would require that you connect those two contexts and see that they probably are the same people. Then you notice they take their crowns and they lay them down at the feet of Jesus They take them and they lay them in the very I mean early on like we're just getting started in the future Prophecy and they've already got these crowns that they were supposed to have gotten When Christ came to collect them, they've already got these crowns and they're already laying them down at the feet of Jesus and So the biggest argument for me that would show that it has to have already happened is that they have stuff they can't have unless it's already happened. There's stuff going on that can't be happening unless the judgment that's coming at the rapture has already taken place. So you have all of that. Now I've said I would give some stuff that spoke against like a mid tribulation because I've already showed like a post tribulation. You can't fit it at all. Uh, because of the fact, you know, something at the end of the seven years, because of the fact that we're told over and over again, the church is not going to be in the last. You could, you could argue for the middle because a lot of that stuff's in the last three and a half years. There's no way you can read the passages we've read tonight. So yeah, the church is going to go through all of that. God literally told us we're not going to and it's all about Israel. But yeah, the church is going to go through all of that because all that's most that's middle, you know, after the midway point. Some of that's before the midway point, which should negate any belief in a tribulation, a rapture taking place towards the middle of the tribulation. But my argument would be anybody who has switched to that doctrine or promoting that doctrine will often cite saying, well, where is the pre-tribulation rapture? Show me where the rapture is in the Bible, where it actually happens, like on the timeline of Revelation. Revelations focus more on the tribulation period so it doesn't really work because that's like asking me to show you the church in Zephaniah and where they're at During prophecy because it's not about that. It's about it's really what's gonna happen to them So you're asking for something that that's not the point of what's going on in Revelation The point of Revelation is to pick up at the breaking of the seals in the beginning of the tribulation period coming in, which we've been told in 2 Thessalonians should take place immediately after the rapture. And there's stuff that seems to be going on in that story that would have taken place after the rapture. So you have all of that, but I would have to take the same scrutiny and apply it backwards. You have to go back and answer the question, if you believe the rapture is in the middle, where is it at? Show it to me in the book of Revelation. Because I have good reason why mine wouldn't be present in the book of Revelation, because it takes place before the events of Revelation kick off, because it's not part of that story. It's like getting mad because John the Baptist is not in the book of Revelation. He's not part of that story. He's not supposed to be in it. but if you believe it's in the middle, then yeah, it's supposed to be part of the story, so show it to me. And anybody who I say that to, they're gonna say, oh, it's in Revelation chapter seven, of course, because you have the great multitude, which cannot be numbered, appearing there. Problem with that is if that's your rapture, then the only people who get to be raptured, the only people who get a glorified body and so forth are people who died in the tribulation, because the only people appearing in Revelation chapter number seven are people who are coming from the tribulation. But I'll give you a bigger problem. Revelation chapter 7 isn't the middle. It's the end right you go back and watch our video on the timeline of prophecy I'd probably really blow somebody's mind who's never watching our videos when they get to that But Revelation chapter 7 is not the middle of the tribulation period you have went one time through when looking at the seals, and the sixth seal, if you pay attention, is describing most of the events of the vows and the trumpets, like the sun, moon, and stars being darkened, the mountains being shaken out of their place, and so forth, so that it has to be the end of the seven years, and what you're doing is you're reading through the seals. You're going through the whole seven years one time, but just at a very zoomed out broad view. You get to the trumpets, you're zooming in a little bit. You're looking at a little bit of the buildup and a little bit after, but you're zoomed out and you're looking from a distance. You're still looking at the earth and like how it's affecting the world as a whole. Whereas when you get to the vows, you zoom in even more and you're just focused on the last three and a half years. You don't get any of the context and you're looking at the people and very specifically the kingdom of the Antichrist and how it's affecting them. So that each set of seven is just you zooming in a little bit more and understanding a specific aspect of the seven years of tribulation a little better, mostly zooming in a little bit more on that last three and a half years and seeing how it affects the kingdom of the Antichrist. is what you're zooming down to by the time you get to the seven vows. So if your argument is that Revelation 7 is the middle and that's the rapture, you've got bad news because that's not the middle. That's most definitely the end if you actually pay attention to what's being said. Otherwise, you've got God cutting the lights off and on because the sun, moon, and stars are being darkened. over and over and over again when all your Old Testament prophecy tells you that's a one time event and it's the lights out that last call, like what you do it like what they do at the bar, like what they do at the grocery stores and stuff when they want to get everybody out. They dim the lights to let you know, look, it's done. It's closing time. You better get out of here. God's dimming the lights of the earth to let everybody look. It's closing time. We're getting ready to wrap up shop here and we're done. So all of that has to take place before Revelation seven has the people appearing there. So my point is that if you're going to try to take that and say, oh, that's look, that's the rapture. It has to be because you have a multitude which cannot be numbered 10,000 times 10,000. You have a multitude saved out of every tribe, nation, tongue and race, just like the 420 elders. You have a multitude of this and this and this. It's the end of the seven years and we know it can't be the church because the church was already told for sure they're not going to be in the last three and a half years of it. So you know that that cannot be the church because it's not the middle and they're not making, they're definitely not going to be there at the end. They shouldn't be there at the middle either based off of what we've read tonight. So it has to be that those are believers who got saved during the tribulation, exactly like the passage says, if you're not letting somebody twist the verses because the verses tell you these are those that were saved out of the tribulation. So you understand to be saved out of it, you have to be in it. You can't be saved separate from it. You have to be in it. So even the same argument, when you look at the resurrection into life there in Revelation chapter number 20, the resurrection into life in Revelation 20 specifically notes it's for those who were saved, for those who were martyred, those who died during the tribulation period. So if you believe Revelation 20 is the rapture in the sense of like, this is the resurrection, this is when everybody gets their glorified body, then you're still building a doctrine where if we don't live to see the rapture, we don't get one because it's only for people. The only people mentioned is getting a glorified body in that passage. are people who were in the tribulation and died. So all the Old Testament saints are already out of luck. Most of us are going to probably miss out because we're probably not going to make it to that point. It's only for people who are in that seven years are mentioned in that verse, which would imply that everybody who was saved before the seven years already has theirs, which puts you at a rapture before the tribulation period. See this is why it's a complicated doctrine because you can't just read one verse as a I've got it all figured out Because every verse I've ever seen anybody read and say I'll see this is my smoking gun This is where I've got all figured out this verse proves it and they give how this proves their doctrine. It doesn't Because I've listened to some of the smartest preachers I've ever known who went that direction to a mid tribulation form of the rapture use Revelation 7 it's like You don't understand revelation 7 if you think that's a mid-tribulation rapture because that would be a post-tribulation I'd be as end of the seven years if that's what it was. There's definitely not that either I've heard people use the revelation 7 revelation 20 and the the resurrection into life to argue for a post-tribulation rapture is like yeah, but then you have to ignore all this other stuff we just talked about and And you would have to ignore the fact that he's coming back with tens of thousands of his saints. The saints are coming back with him, will be with him when he comes back. It's mentioned many times. You would have to ignore so much doctrine to come to either of these. And here's the thing you have to understand. When you put together the puzzle, every piece has to fit. And just because you found a couple pieces that fit together and look nice doesn't mean that's the way it goes. It has to be a puzzle where every piece fits. And having studied this from all the different perspectives, considered what they had to say, listened to it with a very unbiased approach, listened to men for whom I have great respect who've preached these doctrines. And I've listened to them, and I've heard them out, and I've called them on the phone, I've talked to them, I've heard their side of the argument. I've still come back to the conclusion that the only version of this that fits every piece of the puzzle in place and doesn't have to change my Bible to make it work that doesn't have me changing it to say Those who are alive and those who still remain those who are barely alive and you'll change I've heard so many people change those words to try to make it about the tribulation and stuff the only version that I don't have to change my Bible to believe it is is the pre-tribulation rapture. Every other version, I have to start changing the wording just a little bit. I have to start twisting some stuff within scripture. I have to start making stuff that's very clearly about Israel, about me. I have to ignore the fact that he says this is for people who died during the tribulation and try to make it about everybody. There's so much stuff that I would have to ignore to make it fit. There's so many pieces I'd have to twist to make either of those doctrines fit. The one that fits all the pieces in place, the one that goes with everything, is the one that's most straightforward presented in the Bible. And that's that the church is not looking for tribulation prophecy. The church is looking for Christ to come and collect them. They are like the ten virgins who are waiting for the bridegroom to come and get his bride. Not for seven years of tribulation, not for three and a half years of tribulation, and then the bridegroom to come get his bride. The church is waiting for Christ. And this is something I know it's going to upset somebody. I know people don't like it when you say that if you believe in a mid-trib or post-trib rapture, you're looking for the Antichrist, not the Christ. But you are. You may not think of it that way. You may not mean to be that way. But you are, because before Christ can come in your doctrine, the Antichrist has to be revealed. Before Christ can come in your doctrine, certain events have to take place. Before Christ can come, especially if you're post-trib, in your doctrine, you have to go through some major amount of tribulation before he can come, and all of that stuff sets you up to where you're not looking for Christ. Your blessed hope is not the glorious appearing of Christ. It's, oh, the Antichrist has just been revealed, and now, We can wait for three and a half years. Oh, he's just been revealed. Now we can wait for seven years. That's your hope. You're waiting for something else to occur so that then you can have faith that Jesus Christ is coming back. And if you think about Matthew 24 and what he does say about the rapture in Matthew 24. That's the exact opposite of what the doctrine of the rapture is. The doctrine of the rapture is the world's not going to be looking at all. Just like it was in the days of Noah, they'll be doing whatever they want to do. But the church should be looking and not for something else to happen as a trigger, as a warning, but for Christ to come and collect his church. So Matthew 24, verse number 36. Now let me pause real quick and say this. I understand that what I'm reading in verse 36 in the order of the verses is following everything after he said about the tribulation. But you'll notice the structure of this chapter is he'll give an answer to something and then he'll give a parable or he'll give a parable and then he'll give an answer. Right now he's answering two questions. One's about the signs of the end times and the others concerning his coming when he'll come to collect his people. Now, the answer about the sign of the end times is what came before this, and it ended with the parable of the fig tree, which I'll get to in a moment because it's relevant to my answer I'm giving right now. What he's talking about now is about the rapture itself and about his coming to collect his people, which is followed by the parable of the ten virgins. So think about this, but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Then shall two be in the field, the one shall be taken, the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, the other left. Watch therefore, for you know not the hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Lord hath made rule over his house, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is the servant whom the Lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming, and shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken. The Lord of that servant shall come in that day when he looketh not for him, and in the hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Now that last part has to do with people who don't actually believe Christ, like they don't actually believe He's coming. So I'm going to stay off of that for now because the actual answer we're looking for is in the first part of all of that. Very plainly, he says straight forward. Nobody knows the day or the hour. If the antichrist was revealed tomorrow and it was a mid tribulational rapture, you would know exactly the day and the hour because God counts it down. The tribulation by days That's one reason you can know it is seven years is because he when speaking about events He gives it to you so many different ways. He tells you this happens for this many months this happens for this many days this happens for this many weeks so you don't just have the time the two times a time and a half time thing like you have in Daniel and You have a clear understanding because God gives it to you in days years months and weeks to make sure you know It's exactly seven years and it's broken down to exactly three and a half year periods. So if you had The Antichrist unveiled today, you would know exactly the day you may not be able to know the hour but you know exactly the day that Christ is coming and you could set we could all just set in weight knowing that We don't have to worry until the Antichrist is revealed. Nothing to worry about concerning the coming of Christ until the Antichrist would be revealed. If you had either of the other two doctrines, because you can know it's either three and a half years or seven years or three and a half years plus whatever somebody wants to add to it. If you believed any of those other doctrines. So you do know that that can't line up with what's being said in verse number 36. It has to be that this is the precursor that sets everything else in motion because the rest of the tribulation we're told that it has warning signs. It is something that can be noticed. It's just the rapture. We're being told that there's nothing that we can look for to show us it's coming. We just have to watch and really, you know, be waiting. And he even gives the explanation. He says, look, if you knew what hour somebody was coming to your house, if a thief was coming, you would watch. You would be waiting. You'd be sitting there. But if you don't know, then you just have to watch all the time. And so he says that's how he wants to find his servants waiting. A wise and faithful servant. Waiting because in such an hour as you think not the Son of Man coming There's not when you think it's not three and a half years after the Antichrist It was not seven years after he's revealed. It's not three and a half years plus a few months It's he's coming and you don't know when and just like and he gives the comparisons of people who don't like this I'll never understand but he gives the comparison to Noah's Ark and how that the wrath of God was not poured out on the world until Noah and his family were safely inside of the ark and that Noah didn't know exactly the day and the hour that the rain would begin. He waited on God to tell him to go into the ark. And when God told him to go, he went in the ark. God closed the ark to keep him safe from the wrath to come. And then God poured out his wrath on the world while Noah and his family were set safely aside somewhere in God's hand that he was taking care of them. So you have a very clear comparison to the fact that Noah didn't go through the wrath. He was completely separated away from it, hidden away while it was going on outside somewhere in the world that he was not a part of. That's the intention when you read this passage, that Noah never felt the first drop of rain. He was able to go in and God shut the door and then the rains came. Now, here's why I say any doctrine that has you, any chance of setting a timeline would have to be wrong because that's true of the second coming, but not of the rapture. Let's go back and reread, read a little bit further back by going back to verse 29. It says immediately after the tribulation of those days, so the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. So that's last three and a half years getting close to the end of it. Usually I expect somewhere around the middle of it and then shall appear the sign of the son of the son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet They shall gather together the elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other So people who again try to make that the rapture missed the point the people who are being gathered are not the people on the earth This is people who are in heaven. He's gathering the Saints to come back with him at the second coming So that's another one where I've heard it misused and I even had it misquoted to me multiple times for somebody said he gathered from the earth and he doesn't say that he says it gathered from the four winds of heaven from the four corners of heaven and Because of the fact that these are people who are already in heaven that he's gathering Then verse 32 says now learn a parable of the fig tree when his branches yet tender and put his fourth leaves You know not that summer is nigh, you know, you know that summer is nigh So likewise ye when you shall see all these things know that it is near even at the doors Verily I send to you this generation shall not pass to all these things be fulfilled heaven and earth shall pass away But my word shall not pass away So what's the parable of the fig tree? that when the when the leaves start to bud, you know, when it starts to bud and the leaves are tender and the branches are starting to grow, leaves are coming out and so forth, you know that summer is coming. And he's saying that when you see the signs start to come, you know, the Antichrist has been revealed. He goes in, he commits the abomination of desolation. You have the war and famine and all that stuff that's being poured out as those seals are being broken in the first part of this chapter. And then you have the Antichrist in the midway point going to commit the abomination of desolation you have him attacking Israel you have All these things going on so that the Sun moon and stars are dark and and then Christ coming back with the sound of a trumpet And the elect, you know being with him coming back and so forth when you have all of that going on He says look, you know That's that's like when you see the fig tree when it's starting to grow, you know when you see the plant starting to grow You know, it's already springtime and summer soon and And he says the same way that when you see these coming, it's not going to be a generation past. It's not going to be 40 years before Christ comes back. It's going to be seven. That generation is not going to pass seven years from the time that the Antichrist is unveiled is going to happen. And then you immediately go into the answer about the rapture where he tells us, but of that day and hour, no, no man, no, with no man, the hour, no, not the angels having my father only. So you know that at this point he switches and starts talking about the rapture because of what follows. We just read it. He's talking about two working in the field, one taking one left behind, that that's the gathering together of the saints. And so what you have at this point is the rapture you're being told is something that you cannot have a precursor sign. The only precursor sign we're given in the Bible is that there shall be a great falling away. And that's one of those things you can't measure it. Like you can't say, oh, there's a falling away now. So it has to be seven years. Oh, there's a falling away now. So it has to be this amount of time. Oh, there's a falling away now. So it has to be that. Falling away is an immeasurable thing because when did the falling away occur? How much of a falling away does it have to be? There's been falling aways in the past. You know, what was that about? You know, you can't measure a falling away It's just a general idea that look, you know know this that when the time gets closer There's gonna be people who are turning away from God so Understand that when it comes to the rapture, the understanding from that passage is very clear that you can't know. You just have to be a servant who's watching and waiting, knowing it can happen at any moment, that if you could know it, then there would be something wrong with the doctrine. Because he very explicitly says, the second coming, you know, because it's marked, it's littered with signs. But the rapture has none of those. It's coming like the rain, like the time with Noah. It's going to happen in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. It's going to happen as something where men are not expecting. It's just gone. One's taking one's left behind. That's how the rapture has to occur. So normally I end this video with a bunch of evidences as you'll as you see, like I really try to keep one fairly focused train of thought because we barely scratched the surface of stuff. Let me read off some of these additional evidences that you could use. So the only resurrection in the book of Revelation that's ever mentioned is revelate other than the revelation, the resurrection, the condemnation, which is mentioned as happening after the thousand year reign of Christ. Which is those who are being cast in the lake of fire and so forth. That's the resurrection of condemnation that Jesus prophesies about here in Matthew. Other than that, the only other resurrection in Revelation is the resurrection of the people who the saints that were martyred during the tribulation, killed during the tribulation in Revelation 20 verse 4 through 6. So the revelation of the revelation, the resurrection, I think the resurrection of people saved prior to the tribulation period would have had to have occurred prior to the tribulation period or else they're never going to be resurrected because we have the rest of time we have from the seven years on till the end of time. We have the record and we're told that nobody else gets resurrected after that one until the very end when those who are resurrected in the condemnation are resurrected. And the resurrection to life, he says, is finished before the thousand year starts. So there's no room for there to be a resurrection to life after the thousand years. So you have to understand that you have that argument that would show that the resurrection to life had to have occurred before Revelation 20, and you don't have it anywhere in the book of Revelation. So it had to have occurred prior to when we pick up in heaven before Revelation chapter four starts. Then you have the argument of the four and 20 elders versus the great multitude that you have people in heaven who very much are connected to. Uh, and the Bible makes, goes out of its way to make sure you connect them to the church by giving them the things that's promised to the church, setting in thrones with God, ruling, wearing the robes and the crowns and all that kind of stuff that he promised to them. It's like you would have to ignore it to not see it because God's intentionally drawing you to them. They're even seeing you know, we're saved out every tribe nation tongue and race our numbers 10,000 times 10,000 thousands of thousands you know, everything's drawing you to that while is the the great multitude is saved from the tribulation and connected where they have a Similar description like it's instead of white robes. It's white Raymond, you know, it's it's instead of 10,000 times 2,000 is a multitude which no man can number and So it's being described synonymously, but it's not the exact same terminology to show you that they're the same but there's something slightly different and it's just the period from which they're being saved. Then you have the arguments of Revelation 7 not being the middle of the tribulation, therefore could not be the rapture as most people who believe in a mid-tribulation or rapture would try to make it. It couldn't be the mid-tribulation or rapture because it's not the middle, it's the end. You have the fact that he's coming back with the Saints you have revelation 20 described revelation 19 describing that I guess and then Jude describes it as saying 10,000 saints coming with him so we already have to be with him before the end of the tribulation and You have the the and I'll get to my main arguments that I give tonight in a second You have the resurrection to life versus resurrection condemnation, which we kind of talked about already And then the main ones I've talked about tonight. So I said tried to pick a specific Avenue to go down Is the fact that there is? The tribulation prophecies and passages about the tribulation in the Bible never talk about the church going in it. Every passage tells the church you're not appointed under this, you're not supposed to be looking for this, you're supposed to be looking for Christ coming to gather the church, and you're supposed to be looking to his kingdom after. But that seven years and all the stuff going on that has nothing to do with you, this is about Israel. Old Testament is full. It's littered with prophecies about the fact that this is about Israel. You have to not read Old Testament to ignore that because it's full of it. Like if you read any of your prophecy books, you're going to see that because it's full of that prophecy that the tribulation is about Israel. It's about dealing with them and punishing them. And there will be other people caught in the crossfire. There'll be other people who have certain things that happen to them as a result. But it's about Israel. So you have your argument, the two main arguments upon which I would build this is that the church is told that we're not to look for the tribulation. We're to look for Christ coming to gather his church and we're to be wise and faithful servants who are looking for him to come, not for the Antichrist to be revealed and all that stuff first, but for him to come and then for his kingdom afterwards. So we're told to almost to ignore that middle. It's not for us. You're looking for before and you're looking for after. And then we're told also the other big argument would be the fact that the tribulation is never about the church. It's always about Israel and all the prophecies that ever talk about it. It's always about Israel. We're told why it happens in Daniel chapter number nine. It's about Israel. And then I probably would include some of the stuff like the fact that the language of Second Thessalonians and the stuff with the Antichrist would require that the church has to be taken out of the way before the Antichrist could be revealed and Israel could go through all of this. So if I was to try to boil it down, those would be my three main evidence. I gave you a whole list of other stuff that I didn't cover in this lesson, but my three main evidences would be never is it about church, it's always about Israel. Church is told not to look for it, but to look for Christ and for his kingdom that would come after. So that would put them outside of that period of time. And the fact that the language of second Thessalonians would say that the Antichrist is waiting for the church to be taken out of the way before he could be revealed. And normally I get four evidences. So I'll throw the 420 elders said to talk about that a little bit, that when you look at the characters in the story of Revelation and the timeline of events, the church and Old Testament saints, new and Old Testament saints up to the time of the tribulation all seem to be in heaven already having the rewards that would have come at the rapture. So based primarily off of those evidences, but with your consideration of the ones that I didn't go through, especially if you already know those doctrines, I would invite you then to give your grade. Of course, if you're not familiar with the grading system, if you agree with what I've taught tonight, you do believe based off of that evidence, the rapture would have to take place before the tribulation period. then you leave us a comment telling us that it was sound doctrine. That's good, a sound doctrine. If you see it, but you're not really convinced, like you're there, like it makes sense, but I'm not convinced yet. I still need to see more, then leave almost persuaded. If you're still on the fence, you're not really sure either way, then leave unsure. And if you don't agree with me at all, put unconvinced, like you just I didn't convince you. I didn't sway you on this. You're not there. You leave your grade and let us know, because that's the whole point. That's the challenge of this. I try to make these Bible studies I do on Saturday a little bit different. And that's the one thing I can do to make this a little bit different, is to present it as a scientific study of a question that's asked and try to answer it using the Bible, and then invite you to give your grade and participate. So again, leave as a grade, sound doctrine if you agreed, almost persuaded if you see it, but you're not quite there, unsure if you're on the fence, and unconvinced if you disagree, no matter how much you disagree. If you think I'm completely wrong and I'm a heretic, still just put unsure, or unconvinced. You don't have to be rude about it. but unconvinced if you're just not there at all. All right, so I didn't have any questions come in during it, which that's not normally the way we do this study. We don't normally ask for questions in this one. If you had some questions, I would try to have answered, but I appreciate those who came in to be part of the study. I appreciate even my mom's watching over on Facebook, so my greetings to you. And to everyone else from the church and all who's been a part of it I have actually had my Bible up over top of the window the whole time so that way I couldn't be distracted by the comments because normally when I do a study like this I get a lot of distracting comments from people who are not part of our Bible study group or anything like just random people who just came in off of some other service or something So I apologize, I didn't read your comments in real time to actually know what you were responding to that I said. I'm gonna assume everything is well though. All right, I don't see any grades coming in, so I don't know. My mom's the only one who gave one, so I assume I'll see those later. But anyways, we're gonna go and close out. I try to keep these down closer to 45 minutes to an hour or an hour and a half, because as I said, this is just one of those things you cannot do it in a short amount of time. Thank you for being a part of it. Hope it's been a help to you. Hope at the very least it gets you considering and thinking about are you Applying the same level of scrutiny to all the doctrines. Are you willing to twist and change things when it's suitable? Because we always need to make sure we're holding every doctrine to the same standard that we're making sure it lines up with the Bible That's my problem with a lot of this stuff is If I tried to change the Bible to preach any other doctrine, you'd call me a liar. But if this, if it's a pet doctrine, people will change the wording. I don't want to get in a different tangent tonight, but that's my issue with people who believe in a the gap theory is they'll change the wording of the passage. Like, well, it could have been translated this way. And so if I preached any other doctrine where my foundational doctrine is it could have been translated this way, you would call me a heretic. And a lot of people who preach amid or post-tribulation rapture do a whole lot of, well, it could also be translated this way. And so for King James believers, we need to be King James believers. We can't change the words just when we need it to for our doctrine to fit. When you make sure you're applying the right level of scrutiny in the equal level across all doctrines. That's my little extra note It didn't cost you anything if you've already cut off and you don't even know that I'm saying what I'm saying now We look forward to seeing everybody at God's house tomorrow. Thank you for being part of the study. Hope it's been a help to you I appreciate everybody who was a part of it And if you commenting letting us know that you're here, we'll go ahead and close out the study Look forward to seeing you tomorrow