The following program is recorded
content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is
the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research
Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about
Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking
your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the
show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick
Live. Hey, if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you
gotta do is dial 877-207-2276. Today's date is August 28th.
It's a nice, uh, let's see, today's Thursday, August 28th, 2025.
All right, that was for the podcasters and stuff like that. All right, I think it's about
that. Looking for things. I have so many things going on.
You know, I'm writing articles and one of the articles I'm writing
on, which I'll probably release maybe today, who is the best
example for mankind, Jesus or Muhammad, working on I updated
my files. I have files on Catholicism and
Eastern Orthodoxy and a whole bunch of stuff. My Roman Catholicism
file is 260 pages. It's in F by 11, you know, Microsoft
Word. And the other one is 207, I think
it is, in Eastern Orthodoxy. And what I've been doing is updating
the stuff on the priesthood because it's just, it's bad. Both of
their priesthoods are false priesthoods. You know, when you really believe
the Word of God, it's easy to say, well, it's a false church.
If you really believe the Word of God, you believe in it. But
what's interesting is when I present this information to the EO and
the RC, they don't care. They just don't care. All they care about is the truth
of their church. Shame, shame, shame. Hey, why don't you give me a
call? Three open lines, 877-207-2276. All right, Buskman, welcome,
brother. You're on the air. Hey, Matt,
thanks for taking my call. Two questions, Matt, and I can
take the answer off the air, brother. Can you give us a brief
history of the modern state of Israel And should Christians
support the State of Israel, and why or why not? That's what
I've got, Matt. OK, sounds good. All I know is
May 14, 1948, that Israel became a recognized state. And there
was the Six-Day War in 1967, which is really interesting when
you study some of the miracles that happened. And since then,
Israel has faced all kinds of conflicts and problems and issues
as the really tolerant Muslims tried to destroy their nations
and kill their people. It's a religion of peace, remember
that. It's always a religion of peace, a really comfortable
religion of peace. They want to help people while
they're destroying everybody and stuff. In fact, go to thereligionofpeace.com. Thereligionofpeace.com. All right, now why should we
basically support Israel? Overall, we should support Israel. That doesn't mean that we support
everything Israel does. They're just normal. And if you
read the Old Testament, you'll see where Israel messed up a
lot. But even then, God was faithful
to them. They were his covenant people. He says, in Genesis 12-2, God
says to Abraham, I will make you a great nation, I will bless
you, make your name great, and you shall be a blessing, and
I will bless those who bless you. The one who curses you,
I will curse. So that's the basic reason why
we want to support Israel, biblically speaking. Again, it doesn't mean
everything that Israel does and everything Israel says is perfect.
any more than it means in the Old Testament that what they
did was perfect and pure every single time. But the idea of
covenant faithfulness to God's covenant people is good. Now,
are they saved? Well, no. They need an awakening.
They need the work of God. They need to be able to trust
in the Messiah. And I believe that there is a
prophecy in the Bible, in Romans 11, where it talks about When
the time of the Gentiles is over, then all Israel will be saved.
And I believe that that's what's going to be happening. So anyway,
there you go with that. All right. There you go with
that. And if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want
to hear from you. Give me a call. You can also, if you are interested, you can send an email to info
at carm.org info at c-a-r-m dot o-r-g and put in the subject
line radio comments or radio questions, something like that,
and I can get to them. And we've got a caller that may
be coming in, but if it doesn't come in, what I'll do is I'll
continue just to go through the emails. I've been going through
a lot of them lately because, well, I kind of enjoy that, the quick
and slick approach to to entering emails is kind of getting to
it. So there you go. Now, as I mentioned yesterday,
I want to mention again that we do need your support. Please
consider supporting us at the CARM Intergalactic Headquarters
at carm.org. We, well, we just needed support. And I'm not going to whine and
complain and all that kind of stuff. I believe that God's people,
according to God's grace, will do what God ordains for them
to do. But I'm just letting you know
that we do need that support, particularly during the summer
times. And to stay on the air, we need that support as well.
And to pay the missionaries, and pay the internet, and pay
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donate. It's all you gotta do and everything's
right there. We ask $10 a month, not too much. I think it's a
couple of cups of coffee nowadays out there. So if you'd consider
that, we would appreciate it. Let's get to Alberto. Alberto,
Alberto. Okay, we're dropping them. I
don't know what's going on there. And if I heard a cuss word or not,
or it was just a glitch in the radio, but it was pretty bad.
So, glitch in the line that is. So there you go. If you want to give me a call,
the number is 877-207-2276. And wait until Keith gets the
callers kind of acclimated. And he takes the call. Sometimes
they come in all at once. He's going to do two or three
things really quickly. And then no big deal. So what I'm going
to do now is get some radio questions while I'm waiting for that to
kind of clear up. And let's see. How about this one? What are
the word of wisdom and word of knowledge in the below verses? How are these defined? Thank
you very much. I don't know how they're defined because the Bible
doesn't tell us. We can only infer from what the
words are that it would appear to be that the
word of wisdom is is a statement that comes from
the Lord, that's through you, to help someone else, and it's
something of, that's just what it is. It's wise, it's wisdom. And then a word of knowledge
generally is not something about wisdom statements and how to
do things in a wise, very good way, but you have information
that normally you wouldn't have. And that's, it seems to be what
they are. Okay. It seems to be what they
are. So there's that one. And, uh,
let's get to Oscar from New York. Hey, Oscar, welcome. You're on
the air. Yes. Uh, I would like to know, somebody
ask me a question. Can a Christian be demonic possessed? No, he can't. All right, so. Thank you. Greater is he that's
in you than he that's in the world, okay, Bible says. And
also if you go to Matthew 12, 43. Now when an unclean spirit
goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking
rest and does not find it. Then it says, I will return to
my house from which I came, and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied,
swept, and put in order." That means the spirit of God is not
there. It's unoccupied, the spirit of the man. So then it goes in
and takes along seven other spirits. It's more wicked than itself.
So the issue there seems to be the implication is that when
you receive Christ, you are indwelt by God. That's what John 14 23
says that. And so here it says, well, if
it finds its empty and unoccupied, it can come in. So that's one
of the further supports for the idea that no, it cannot be demon
possessed. Okay. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. You're welcome. God bless. All
right, now let's get to Martin from Virginia. Martin, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt. God bless. Thanks for taking
my call. Sure. What do you got? So that recent
shooting of kids in a church, I think it's Wisconsin, just
yesterday. And it came out, you know, who the shooter was and
such. I'm not going to play politics
on it, but you see so much now in the news how governors and
mayors are trying to play politics. And I don't know how many times
I heard, five times they said, uh, we have a gun problem and
there's more guns than there are citizens in the United States.
But what they're not telling you is We also have more knives,
so it's a false equivalency. We have more knives, but that's
not the problem. Just clearly not the problem.
And America ranks number 11th in the world for a nation's national
shooting. So it's just enraging me that
the left likes to try to play at any crisis. Do you have a
question? Yeah. So when we have people
saying that it's more prayer, more concern, more empathy, and
then we have someone Like, what's her name, the old White House,
not old, but the previous White House press secretary saying,
prayer does no good. Prayer's worthless. It kind of
enrages me as a Christian. How do you handle that with family
members that follow that same path? You say, how do you know it doesn't
matter? Because the Bible says, 1 John 5, it says, when you pray
according to his will. But you've got to understand,
what I'll tell people is, I said, it wasn't until Adam and Eve
acted like atheists, developing their own morality, that things
went bad. Instead of subjecting themselves to the word of God,
the truth of who and what God is, they started deciding for
themselves what was true and right and morally good. And look
what happened. Everything just hit the fan and
went bad. And so what God is doing is letting people have
their consequence of their rebellion against Him. Then they cry out
and say, why are you doing this? Why are you letting this happen?
But He's letting it happen because they are the ones who are rebelling
against Him. So He lets people have what they
want. He very often does that. Just as the self-righteous lawyer
came up to Jesus and said, what good thing must I do to be saved? He answered him according to
his will. You've got to keep the law then. Do it perfectly. Are you? No, you're
not. So God answers questions according to what you want and
your desire. Because that's just how he works. Furthermore, they politicize
this stuff very quickly. And statistically, more people's
lives are saved on an annual basis due to guns and weapons
than they are lost. And that is a fact. And so if
their idea of the leftist moron wackos, their idea is safety,
then they should have everybody have guns. Because when everybody
has a gun, everybody's equal. So, you know what, when I was
driving down the road listening on the radio and they said, what
can we kind of, what kind of, there's two things here I want
to talk about. What kind of things can we do to make people safer?
Give them all guns. Give all the teachers guns. Train
them. If everybody knew that that's what it was in a school,
are you gonna go in there and risk your own life trying to
shoot people up? You'd be taken out. It's just common sense,
all right? Now, that's one thing, but here's
what bothers me to no end, and I listen to news stations, I
listen to commentary about the rise of violence and all this
stuff, and not a single one of them ever talks about the issue
of the heart. We'll get to that after the break,
because there's a break, and we'll talk about this, because
it's really important. Okay, so hold on, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll
be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call,
you can, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking
your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hi everyone,
Bill. Welcome back to the show. If
you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Martin, are
you still there? Yeah, yeah. One quick question.
Just before the break, you said that the station didn't talk
about a reference to love. Did you mean like Morality or
the, oh no, you said heart. Didn't reference the heart. Do
you mean morality or love? The news media and the commentators,
the pundits, they miss the issue. They all miss it. I'm going to
read something out of the scripture. This is what it says in 1 Timothy
1.9, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous
person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the
ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those
who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers. The Bible talks
about this, the law is. So the law, my shorthand term
is saying the law is for the hand. It restricts the hand's
movements of injuring, stealing, etc. The law is for the hand.
The gospel is for the heart. The gospel changes the heart.
The heart then guides the hand. Now, you remove the gospel and
you need more laws to fill the vacuum. But more laws breeds
resentment, oppression, and rebellion. Then what happens is that the
lawless sinners complain against God for the rebellions and tragedies
that follow. So what the pundits are doing
is complaining and saying, we need more law. That's not the
solution. More law is not the solution. More God, more gospel is a solution. Okay. That's what the issue is. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
you rebel, and you disobey, and you rebel, you're going to get
yourself, what, 38 more years in the desert. Yeah, and if you
think about it, our nation early believed in God. Not everybody,
but there was a lot of godly people. They had decency laws
in movies. They had decency laws for radio.
there certainly were bad people, but for overall, they were God
country people who followed the law. Then they removed God and
prayer from the schools in 1963. Then they taught people it's
okay to kill the unborn. And then lawlessness increases
because the heart is now Wicked it, you know, it's okay to kill
the unborn. It's okay to redefine marriage
It's okay to do what I want and as it says in the Old Testament
It says everyone did what was right in their own eyes and in
the judges. Yeah Yeah, the sanitization of
selfishness everybody was okay to do their own thing and So
what the leaders need to do is not promote a religion in particular,
except I think they should promote Christianity because it's the
truth, but they should then promote laws that encourage pastors teachers
to flourish in society so that they can teach more people they
should make churches tax-exempt etc things like this to be able
to get people their hearts changed and this will heal the nation
it's simple but the pundits are secularists and so they want
to put band-aids on problems and they don't understand they
don't understand that the law is for the ungodly for the profane
the uh... the killers the murderers so
that's what the law is for this is why we're having trouble because
that's it's a heart problem not a law problem yeah we need more
people to get out and vote and follow a godly and christian
and a rightly Awarded vote, applied vote. Yeah, that's true. And all the Christian church,
the whole Christians, all true Christians, true Christians,
not Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.
True Bible-believing, justified, saved, born-again Christians
should be praying for this country and praying for a spiritual revival
in this country. It should be taught from the
pulpit on a regular basis. Don't forget. pray for this country,
pray for its revival, and it shouldn't be so oftenly said
that it's just a phrase that people dismiss, but the encouragement,
and even have meetings, they should have, churches should
also have a prayer meeting, a prayer night meeting, wherever you can,
it can come up whenever you want. I agree with most of that, I
kind of disagree with the segregation part, I know that we've had multi,
multi-religion, multi-type religion meetings, and my brother's Mormon,
God bless him. He believes what he believes.
But he is raising some wonderful daughters. And to do good in
society and to respect Christ, unfortunately, their version
of Christ is not my Christian version of Christ. I still love
him. I still accept him. When Mormons pray, they're praying
to their demonic God. That's just the way it is, because
their gods are not real. So true Christians need to pray
to the true God. And the God of Mormonism is an
exalted man from another planet who has a goddess wife and has
relations and produce offspring. This is not the God of Scripture.
And the Bible says, I forgot the exact verse, it says they
served by nature those which are not gods and they served
demons that they thought were gods. to their demonic influences.
That's what Mormonism is. I know that people in Utah listening
to me right now are very, very angered by that. Well, invite
me down, because I live in Idaho. Invite me down, and we'll meet
at a church or a building, and I'll go through and answer all
your questions, and we'll talk about it. But Mormonism is not
Christian, and neither is Jehovah's Witnesses, and neither is Roman
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. I've got Jehovah's Witnesses
that come over once a month now, just because I like to talk to
them. I like to try to witness to them, and they even got one
of their brothers snowing. He's been around for a while,
and they brought him out for me, and we can sit down and quote
a scripture, and a couple of the people that are with him
get a little befuddled. They say, well, no, it's... It's not just the
41,000, the 40,000, it's... We're a little off topic here,
but yeah. But the thing is that that is,
they're false religions. People have to understand, and
I believe that Christians are under-educated in church. They
don't understand that this is a serious spiritual issue. There
are demonic forces out there. They're alive and well in the
Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, one is Pentecostal, let's see,
Mormon, Jehovah's Witness churches, Christian science and stuff,
and even in the SDA. Boy, people are saying, man,
you are judgmental. Yeah, I am. That's what the nature of truth
is. It is a scalpel that separates truth from error. And you've
got to know what the truth is. And so true born, that's why
I said true born again Christians who have access to the blood
of Christ, to the true and living God at the throne in heaven,
ask God, please. Save this nation send people
to to live in godly ways in high offices of power use us Put it
upon our hearts what to pray for and you pray for the salvation
of these people you pray for the salvation of the Mormons
and the Jehovah's Witnesses the Catholics Eastern Orthodox the
Muslims because we don't want them in control when he said
when Roman Catholicism was in control we had the crusade we
had the Inquisition when Islam was in control we have killing
and England was not much better, sometimes in France too, there
was a lot of that. opportunities you have. Yeah,
that's right. I say, if you want to mess something up, you just
need people and time. But the point is that what we need is
we need born-again Christians submitting to the Word of God.
Those Protestants who were doing it, not like the Catholics were,
because the Catholics were, I can't even repeat what they were doing,
I can't repeat it, but on the air. Thank you very much. But
yeah, they were doing bad stuff, but they were not true Christians,
because that's not what the Bible says to do. Okay, so anyway,
thank you so much. We should have a council on this.
Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please
stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking
your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, everybody,
welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call
at the bottom of the hour, the number is 877-207-2276. Pastor Sam from Missouri, welcome.
You're on the air. Hey, my friend, how are you?
We haven't spoken in a while. I saw you today in passing, and
across my, I thought I'd ask you a question that I didn't
get a chance to ask the last time we had a conversation. Sure, no problem. In 1 Timothy
chapter 4, verse 10, it says that God is the Savior of all
men, especially those who believe these things command and teach.
How is that compatible with limited atonement? Oh, it's very compatible.
Because we have to ask questions. What does it mean to be the savior?
I ask people, is he the savior of those who are damned? Well,
no, he's not. but if he's a savior of all men
then what does it mean? well it means all types of men
because initially Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel Matthew 15 24 he was a savior only for the
nation of Israel that was the covenant aspect but they broke
the covenant so we were grafted in as a gentiles and that was
prophesied but that's another topic so he's a savior of all
men means that God is is uh... the Savior of not only of all
people, but especially of believers. So salvation is applied to those
who have faith. Christ's death is sufficient
for all, but efficient only for the elect. Okay? That fits perfectly
into the limited atonement, right? Yeah, well, that doesn't really
make sense because the text says the Savior of all men, and then
it makes the statement especially those that believe so you have
you have all men and then you have those that believe so it
couldn't be did he say okay did he save the ones who are damned yeah but yeah yes yes in my in
i would have to have to uh i would have to i would have to conclude
like I believe that you're doing, that yes, it does include the
damned, because that's what it says. It says... Hold on, hold
on, hold on. To be a savior means to save
them from that judgment of God. So if they face the judgment
of God and they're under that judgment, then they've not been
saved. So how then is he the savior?
Yes. How then is he the savior of
those who are damned? He's the Savior. See, the only
reason why they are damned is because of their reasoning and
decision-making ability. That's not true. He saved them.
That's not true. I'm sorry, I'm going to disagree
with you. You said, hold on, you said the only reason is because
of their failure of reasoning abilities. That means that people
can come to faith by their reasoning, but that's refuted by Jesus. Let me explain. It's refuted
by Jesus in John 6, 65, where he says, you cannot come to me
unless it's granted by the father. So reasoning is wiped out as
a possibility of why you come to Christ. You can't come. It's not based on reasoning.
Okay. Well, see, the only thing about it is that God does grant
it, but he grants it on the behalf of Christ. It's not just granted,
just simply for being granted. But here's the thing. The ability,
see God puts faith within mankind's makeup. Mankind has faith, but
the faith of the gospel comes to mankind because of what Christ
did. The gospel is preached. It's
just, how can they hear without a preacher? How can he preach?
Except he's been sent. So it's not just slathered all
over the place. The gospel has to be preached. And when the gospel is preached,
mankind has an opportunity at that point too. But you don't
think that you don't think that when the gospel is preached,
a person has an opportunity to believe that's what you're saying.
No, no, no. Let's get back to the topic of 1 Timothy 4.10. Because you said the issue here
is if Jesus is someone's savior, it means he saved them. It's
like there's a boat out there that has a life raft, a life
boat out there. A ship has sunk and these people,
say five people, are in this life boat and they're out of
water, they're out of food, they're starving, they're not doing well,
they've been out there for a few days, and a ship goes to dock
and says, yeah, we saved, we're their saviors, we saved them,
and they're still out there in the water. You can't say there's
a savior, that they saved him. It doesn't make sense. I get
what, it's not intended to fit your logic, but what the text
says. No, it's not my logic. It has to be. It's not my logic. Here's the thing, let me do an
analogy like you just did. I have a hotel, and the hotel
has a thousand rooms in it, and I tell people, Uh, anybody, everybody
that wants to come to this hotel can come. There's a thousand
rooms and then, but people who supposedly know me are telling
people there's only 518 rooms. But the truth is, is that there
are a thousand rooms. So people are going to believe
what they heard. And he said, well, how could
there be a thousand rooms if these people are telling me that
there's only 518 rooms? It doesn't mean that the thousand
rooms aren't there. It's just that people no longer
believe that the salvation or the hotel, in this case, is there. That's all I'm saying. Yeah,
it's a really bad analogy. So a thousand rooms, why not
infinite rooms? Because the blood of Christ is
infinite in its value. Hold on, hold on. I got you. But then just because
someone says there's only 500, you know, that's not it. That's
it. Look, did Jesus cancel their
sin debt at the cross? Did he actually pay for their
sins? Did he? Paid for everybody's sins. Okay,
so if everybody's sins are paid for, that means there's no more
sin. It's gone. No, that's not what that means.
Yes, it is. I understand your logic. Let
me explain, let me explain. Go ahead, go ahead. Sin is a legal debt because Jesus
says, our Father, heart and heaven, hallowed be thy name. He says
in Matthew 6, 12, forgive us our debts. In the parallel, Luke
11, 4, he says, forgive us our sins. Jesus equates sin with
legal debt. Do you agree? I understand what you're saying. No, no, no. You have to agree,
because that's what Jesus said. He said, in one version, he said,
forgive us. I'm telling you, he said, forgive
us our sins, forgive us our debts. That's what he said. That's what he said. Right? That's
just saying, but it says, only thing about that, in another
place it says, forgive us of our trespasses. That's what I'm saying, is that
it says debt in one gospel, and the other gospel it says, forgive
us of our trespasses, and we can get those who trespass against
us. Exactly. Luke 11, 4, Matthew
6, 12. In one version, Jesus says, forgive us our debts. There
are debts. Ophilema, in Luke 11, forgive
us our sins. Hermartia. So, Jesus equates
sin with legal debt. If you can't agree with this,
you're disagreeing with Jesus himself. Well, that's not fair. It is fair. I'm reading it look this is Matthew
6 12 Jesus quote in the red and forgive us our debts as we have
forgiven our debtors now what I'm going to do is go over to
Luke 11 where the prayer you know when you pray father how
would be the name etc etc in verse 4 and forgive us our sins
for we ourselves forgive everyone who's indebted to us And right
there in Luke 11 4, the word sins is from Martiah, and in
debt, it's from Ophelia. So right there in Luke 11 4,
he says, forgive us our sins, and as we for ourselves, also
forgive everyone who's indebted to us. And that's him equating
sin with legal debt. He does it. This is proof. And
if you can't accept what Jesus says, then I can't trust you. Well, see, the, the challenge
here, Matt, is that you're using word play. So I understand what
you, by using, by you using the word debt to make your point. I got that. But if you use the
word trespass, it means something else. Okay. When we talk about
trespass, we're talking about a violation against me or a violation
against you, or as it says in, um, John 3 and 4, I think it
is, that sin is the transgression of the law. So when you trespass,
So the trespasses, you know, that's a different word than
debt. So I'm not disagreeing with Jesus. It's just that I'm not using
the word debt in the way that you are using it. No, the way
he uses it. It's not me. It's him. Forgive
us our debts of feeling. Peck, we've got a break coming
up. Stay on the air. I'm going to show you. I'm going
to read you from Jesus. I know who you are. You're a
polite guy. We've had our discussion before on Clubhouse. I'm grateful
you called. I am. I hope they're all listening.
But you're not believing Jesus. And I'm going to show you, okay?
Okay. All right. All right. I'm going to mute
up. We'll be right back. Okay. Hey, folks. I like this
guy. He's a nice guy. But we'll be
right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking
your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. is read you what Jesus says in
Matthew 6. Where are you reading it so I
can read it too? Matthew 6, okay. Are you reading
the King James? Yeah, I think this is King James. Because I like the NESB, but
I'll do the King James if you want to do the King James. It's
up to you, okay? But, uh, it doesn't matter. I'm, I'm, I'm
pretty good with any of it. So, okay. NSB is just nice and
easy. I like it. All right. So this
is what he says. Jesus says, you know, our father
who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Verse 11, give us this
day our daily bread and forgive us our debts. Oh, Philemon, as
we forgive our debtors from Ophelia and lead us not into temptation. Okay. but deliver us from evil,
for yours is the kingdom and power and glory. For if you forgive
others their transgressions, that's lawlessness, that's transgression,
excuse me, that's paraptomata, our heavenly father will also
forgive you. for if you forgive others than your father if you
do not forgive others your father will not forgive your transgressions
your paraptomata so he's saying forgive us our debts which are
equating with transgressions that's Matthew 6 12 through 15
and the other one in Luke 11 give us this day our daily bread
Luke 11 3 forgive us our sins because in the parallel of Matthew
6 12 forgive us our debts so look at this Luke 11 3 give us
each day our daily bread Matthew 6 11 give us this day our daily
bread back to Luke and forgive us our sins now to Matthew and
forgive us our debts Jesus equates sin with legal debt. There's
no way out of this, okay? Are you with me? I don't have a problem with being
indebted because of sin, but the challenge is that the text
in 1 Timothy 4 and 10 that he's the savior of all men. Now, if I take that and apply
it to where we have it right here, he just told these people,
not because of limited atonement, but he just told these people
that if you forgive your enemies, if you forgive people, if you
let people out of the debt that they owe you, your heavenly father
will let you out of the debt that you owe him. And if you
don't, then he won't let you out of the debt that you owe.
That's conditional. That's not actually limited. That's limited to the fact that
if you're obedient or not right or wrong. Well, you don't, that's
wrong. You don't want to get into work salvation. So here's
a question for you. Jesus has to be, he has to be
the savior of all men. And what do you do with first
Samuel three 14 God is he saying, well, I, I have sworn to the
house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned
for by sacrifice or offering forever. Does that include Jesus'
sacrifice? Well, that particular passage
where you are applies to Eli and his house and forever is
in that particular, in that culture, whatever had different connotations,
and one of them would have been until the end of this covenant
that he's under. I mean, you can check that in
various places, so I would not apply that to the atonement that
Christ brought, because under the, under the, under the dispensation
that Eli was under, There wasn't anything that could actually
do what Christ did. There was nothing that could. So I wouldn't apply that there
myself. Although I do see what I do see
what you mean. I don't want to sound like I'm
being disingenuous to the... That's okay. That's okay. I see
what you're saying. I consider your response within
the logical realm of that. Okay, so I'm not gonna worry
about that. All right, I disagree with you, but I'm not gonna argue
with you about it. So let's go over to this verse right here.
Let's go to this verse Colossians 2 14 could talk about in verse
13, Colossians 2 13, having forgiven us all of our transgressions
per optomata again, having canceled out the certificate of debt.
Okay, that's the Greek word kairagraphon, handwriting, uh, handwritten
IOU of legal indebtedness. So he canceled this sin debt
at the cross. Right? Would you agree? He canceled
the sin debt at the cross? What's that? I couldn't hear you. Maybe there's
a glitch in the line or something. Oh, okay. Can you hear me now?
Yeah. I agree. Okay. So then if it's
canceled, it doesn't exist anymore, right? What doesn't exist anymore? The
sin debt is gone. It's canceled at the cross. So
it's not canceled when you believe it's already canceled at the
cross. No, but see, here's the thing. It only, what the text
says is especially to them that believe. Yes, I understand that.
That's because God grants them faith. Look at Colossians. We're
talking about the legality here. Especially, I get what you're
saying about the granting, but this isn't saying anything about
granting. What it says is, especially to them that believe, which is
making a differentiation between all being saved and all that
believe that are saved. But you said, you said that,
you know, that he's a savior of all men. That means that people
who are damned, but then it doesn't make any sense. Oh, I didn't
actually say that as to what's written in the text, because
at the bottom of that, it's either at the bottom or the top of it,
because I'm not looking at it right now. It says these things
command and teach. Yes, I understand. But look,
we're doing the logic thing here with the scriptures. Jesus canceled
the sin dead at the cross, right? Right? Yes, he canceled it, but
it doesn't apply unless the person believes in the resurrection. No, that's wrong. That's wrong.
You're preaching humanism. How could that be wrong, Matt?
Because I'll tell you how. It's not cancelled when you believe. It's not cancelled when you believe.
It's cancelled at the cross. Colossians 2.14 says so. That's
what it says. What happens when you believe
is you're justified. Jesus cancelled the sin that
at the cross. If he cancelled it for everybody,
then everybody has to go to heaven, because there's no sin left.
Yes. That's logical, but see, that's
not the way God set it up. That's not the way it's set up
in the Bible. The Bible says we have access into this grace
through faith. That's what the text says in
Romans, that we have access into this grace through faith. The
Bible says, watch this, it says in Corinthians chapter 15, if
there be no resurrection, we are yet in our sins. It is the
resurrection that is the differentiation point between who salvation is
applied to. Salvation is for all. But the
application of salvation only comes in those who believe in
not only the death and the burial, but also the resurrection. Only
those who believe in the death, burial, and the resurrection.
Because if you don't believe in the resurrection, other people
have already died. But none of them rose from the
dead. Yes, but the ones who believe are the ones granted belief.
Philippians 129 to you has been granted to believe. Why doesn't
God grant that to everybody? Why doesn't God grant that to
everyone? Here's what it says, though, in Philippians. It says,
on the behalf of Christ. Christ paid the price so that
one person could be believed. That's what it means. It's not
what it says. It's not what it says. No, I'm going to say this. You're
doing violence to the word of God. You're twisting God's word.
You're twisting it. You're absolutely twisting it.
What it says is, oh, yes, it is. Yes, you are. It has been
granted for Christ's sake. For to you, it has been granted. Hold on, let me read with God's
word. Let's see what it actually says. For to you, it has been
granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe, but also to
suffer. God grants that you believe. Not that you have the opportunity
to believe, but that you believe. That's what it says. Do you agree? Right. But see, what you're doing
is, you talk about violence, what you're doing is, you're
creating a sub A subset of sinners. No, I'm not. What does the text
say? It says he granted that you believe. It says Jesus died
for sinners. Yes, I got that. It says Jesus died for sinners.
Did Jesus die for sinners or just some other sinners? Does
the text say he died for some other sinners or all other sinners?
Well, hold on. That's the wrong question. What
does it say in Philippians? I'm trying to show you. God grants
that people have faith. What I'm saying is that what
it says in Philippians is that in the behalf of Christ, I wrote
a whole book on this. I know exactly what I'm talking
about. I'm like you. I'm like you, man. I wrote a whole book
on this. No, you didn't. No, no, no. You don't understand
it. No. No, I know who you are. We've
had discussions before and you're polite enough. I know it. I know
it. I know when I'm enjoying the conversation. Yeah. And in
the group of anti-Calvinists that misrepresent Calvinism quite
frequently and regularly. I'm not an anti-Calvinist anymore. Well, you guys say that I'm not
Christian. I take it back. I remove my words. I apologize for judging you because
I, that was my fault. So I, I would draw my statement
of judging massively. That group needs to repent of
its false teaching and its division of the body of Christ. Judgment
of God is upon them. When they, when they, when they
hold on, when they condemn Calvinists and say Calvinists are not Christians,
and then they condemn them and mock them and misrepresent and
won't stand to be corrected by someone like myself who comes
in and says, not what we teach is he'll, yes, it is. And then
they block me. So I can't speak. So that's not how it works. That's
how it has been. You know that because you've
been in there. So look, for to you it has been granted for Christ's
sake to believe. It's been granted. It's the Aorist
passive indicative. It means God is the one who grants
that you have that faith. Here's the question. Why doesn't
God grant it to everyone? It has been granted to everyone.
You mean he's granted justifying faith to everybody? You're a
universalist. No, I'm not a universalist. What I'm saying is this text
and the other text says that God is the Savior of all men,
especially them that believe. Only the people that believe
can be saved. If you don't believe, you can't
be saved. That's right. God grants that we believe. But
what I'm saying, well, he granted it through Christ. Christ paid
the price for a person to believe. God grants it that we believe.
And that's right. And Jesus said, it's the work
of God that you believe. And so why doesn't God grant that
belief to everybody? Let me ask you. When you say
granted, let me see if I understand you right. We've got 30 seconds.
We've got 30 seconds. I've got a question for you.
And you can call me back tomorrow. You can answer it. When you say
granted, you mean God forced it upon you? No, you don't understand.
You don't understand. I can go through the Aorist active
indicative tomorrow with you, but here's a question. We only
have 20 seconds left, okay? Or less than that. Does God know
what to do to bring anybody to faith? The answer, of course,
is yes. Then why doesn't he bring everybody to faith? That's the
question. We'll talk tomorrow, okay? Alright,
brother. Take care, Maslick. We'll talk
to you again. Okay, because there's a music
going, okay? We're out of time, buddy. Alright, we'll talk to
you later. Have a good day. You too. And there you go. He's
polite enough, but not logical enough. That's what happens when
you have bad theology. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed it,
and for those who are waiting, my apologies, but I love talking
like this. Anyway, call back tomorrow, and
hopefully we'll talk to you then. God bless, everybody. Another program powered by the
Truth Network.