The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Hey, if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you gotta do is dial 877-207-2276. Today's date is August 28th. It's a nice, uh, let's see, today's Thursday, August 28th, 2025. All right, that was for the podcasters and stuff like that. All right, I think it's about that. Looking for things. I have so many things going on. You know, I'm writing articles and one of the articles I'm writing on, which I'll probably release maybe today, who is the best example for mankind, Jesus or Muhammad, working on I updated my files. I have files on Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and a whole bunch of stuff. My Roman Catholicism file is 260 pages. It's in F by 11, you know, Microsoft Word. And the other one is 207, I think it is, in Eastern Orthodoxy. And what I've been doing is updating the stuff on the priesthood because it's just, it's bad. Both of their priesthoods are false priesthoods. You know, when you really believe the Word of God, it's easy to say, well, it's a false church. If you really believe the Word of God, you believe in it. But what's interesting is when I present this information to the EO and the RC, they don't care. They just don't care. All they care about is the truth of their church. Shame, shame, shame. Hey, why don't you give me a call? Three open lines, 877-207-2276. All right, Buskman, welcome, brother. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, thanks for taking my call. Two questions, Matt, and I can take the answer off the air, brother. Can you give us a brief history of the modern state of Israel And should Christians support the State of Israel, and why or why not? That's what I've got, Matt. OK, sounds good. All I know is May 14, 1948, that Israel became a recognized state. And there was the Six-Day War in 1967, which is really interesting when you study some of the miracles that happened. And since then, Israel has faced all kinds of conflicts and problems and issues as the really tolerant Muslims tried to destroy their nations and kill their people. It's a religion of peace, remember that. It's always a religion of peace, a really comfortable religion of peace. They want to help people while they're destroying everybody and stuff. In fact, go to thereligionofpeace.com. Thereligionofpeace.com. All right, now why should we basically support Israel? Overall, we should support Israel. That doesn't mean that we support everything Israel does. They're just normal. And if you read the Old Testament, you'll see where Israel messed up a lot. But even then, God was faithful to them. They were his covenant people. He says, in Genesis 12-2, God says to Abraham, I will make you a great nation, I will bless you, make your name great, and you shall be a blessing, and I will bless those who bless you. The one who curses you, I will curse. So that's the basic reason why we want to support Israel, biblically speaking. Again, it doesn't mean everything that Israel does and everything Israel says is perfect. any more than it means in the Old Testament that what they did was perfect and pure every single time. But the idea of covenant faithfulness to God's covenant people is good. Now, are they saved? Well, no. They need an awakening. They need the work of God. They need to be able to trust in the Messiah. And I believe that there is a prophecy in the Bible, in Romans 11, where it talks about When the time of the Gentiles is over, then all Israel will be saved. And I believe that that's what's going to be happening. So anyway, there you go with that. All right. There you go with that. And if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. You can also, if you are interested, you can send an email to info at carm.org info at c-a-r-m dot o-r-g and put in the subject line radio comments or radio questions, something like that, and I can get to them. And we've got a caller that may be coming in, but if it doesn't come in, what I'll do is I'll continue just to go through the emails. I've been going through a lot of them lately because, well, I kind of enjoy that, the quick and slick approach to to entering emails is kind of getting to it. So there you go. Now, as I mentioned yesterday, I want to mention again that we do need your support. Please consider supporting us at the CARM Intergalactic Headquarters at carm.org. We, well, we just needed support. And I'm not going to whine and complain and all that kind of stuff. I believe that God's people, according to God's grace, will do what God ordains for them to do. But I'm just letting you know that we do need that support, particularly during the summer times. And to stay on the air, we need that support as well. And to pay the missionaries, and pay the internet, and pay the developers, and everything. It just takes a lot. And we give information away for free. If you'd be so kind to support us with, say, I don't know, $10 a month, that would be really helpful. And it helps us maintain budgets and know where we're at. So if you go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And, forward slash donate. I'm sorry, karm.org forward slash donate. It's all you gotta do and everything's right there. We ask $10 a month, not too much. I think it's a couple of cups of coffee nowadays out there. So if you'd consider that, we would appreciate it. Let's get to Alberto. Alberto, Alberto. Okay, we're dropping them. I don't know what's going on there. And if I heard a cuss word or not, or it was just a glitch in the radio, but it was pretty bad. So, glitch in the line that is. So there you go. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. And wait until Keith gets the callers kind of acclimated. And he takes the call. Sometimes they come in all at once. He's going to do two or three things really quickly. And then no big deal. So what I'm going to do now is get some radio questions while I'm waiting for that to kind of clear up. And let's see. How about this one? What are the word of wisdom and word of knowledge in the below verses? How are these defined? Thank you very much. I don't know how they're defined because the Bible doesn't tell us. We can only infer from what the words are that it would appear to be that the word of wisdom is is a statement that comes from the Lord, that's through you, to help someone else, and it's something of, that's just what it is. It's wise, it's wisdom. And then a word of knowledge generally is not something about wisdom statements and how to do things in a wise, very good way, but you have information that normally you wouldn't have. And that's, it seems to be what they are. Okay. It seems to be what they are. So there's that one. And, uh, let's get to Oscar from New York. Hey, Oscar, welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Uh, I would like to know, somebody ask me a question. Can a Christian be demonic possessed? No, he can't. All right, so. Thank you. Greater is he that's in you than he that's in the world, okay, Bible says. And also if you go to Matthew 12, 43. Now when an unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, I will return to my house from which I came, and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order." That means the spirit of God is not there. It's unoccupied, the spirit of the man. So then it goes in and takes along seven other spirits. It's more wicked than itself. So the issue there seems to be the implication is that when you receive Christ, you are indwelt by God. That's what John 14 23 says that. And so here it says, well, if it finds its empty and unoccupied, it can come in. So that's one of the further supports for the idea that no, it cannot be demon possessed. Okay. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. You're welcome. God bless. All right, now let's get to Martin from Virginia. Martin, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt. God bless. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What do you got? So that recent shooting of kids in a church, I think it's Wisconsin, just yesterday. And it came out, you know, who the shooter was and such. I'm not going to play politics on it, but you see so much now in the news how governors and mayors are trying to play politics. And I don't know how many times I heard, five times they said, uh, we have a gun problem and there's more guns than there are citizens in the United States. But what they're not telling you is We also have more knives, so it's a false equivalency. We have more knives, but that's not the problem. Just clearly not the problem. And America ranks number 11th in the world for a nation's national shooting. So it's just enraging me that the left likes to try to play at any crisis. Do you have a question? Yeah. So when we have people saying that it's more prayer, more concern, more empathy, and then we have someone Like, what's her name, the old White House, not old, but the previous White House press secretary saying, prayer does no good. Prayer's worthless. It kind of enrages me as a Christian. How do you handle that with family members that follow that same path? You say, how do you know it doesn't matter? Because the Bible says, 1 John 5, it says, when you pray according to his will. But you've got to understand, what I'll tell people is, I said, it wasn't until Adam and Eve acted like atheists, developing their own morality, that things went bad. Instead of subjecting themselves to the word of God, the truth of who and what God is, they started deciding for themselves what was true and right and morally good. And look what happened. Everything just hit the fan and went bad. And so what God is doing is letting people have their consequence of their rebellion against Him. Then they cry out and say, why are you doing this? Why are you letting this happen? But He's letting it happen because they are the ones who are rebelling against Him. So He lets people have what they want. He very often does that. Just as the self-righteous lawyer came up to Jesus and said, what good thing must I do to be saved? He answered him according to his will. You've got to keep the law then. Do it perfectly. Are you? No, you're not. So God answers questions according to what you want and your desire. Because that's just how he works. Furthermore, they politicize this stuff very quickly. And statistically, more people's lives are saved on an annual basis due to guns and weapons than they are lost. And that is a fact. And so if their idea of the leftist moron wackos, their idea is safety, then they should have everybody have guns. Because when everybody has a gun, everybody's equal. So, you know what, when I was driving down the road listening on the radio and they said, what can we kind of, what kind of, there's two things here I want to talk about. What kind of things can we do to make people safer? Give them all guns. Give all the teachers guns. Train them. If everybody knew that that's what it was in a school, are you gonna go in there and risk your own life trying to shoot people up? You'd be taken out. It's just common sense, all right? Now, that's one thing, but here's what bothers me to no end, and I listen to news stations, I listen to commentary about the rise of violence and all this stuff, and not a single one of them ever talks about the issue of the heart. We'll get to that after the break, because there's a break, and we'll talk about this, because it's really important. Okay, so hold on, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, you can, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hi everyone, Bill. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Martin, are you still there? Yeah, yeah. One quick question. Just before the break, you said that the station didn't talk about a reference to love. Did you mean like Morality or the, oh no, you said heart. Didn't reference the heart. Do you mean morality or love? The news media and the commentators, the pundits, they miss the issue. They all miss it. I'm going to read something out of the scripture. This is what it says in 1 Timothy 1.9, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers. The Bible talks about this, the law is. So the law, my shorthand term is saying the law is for the hand. It restricts the hand's movements of injuring, stealing, etc. The law is for the hand. The gospel is for the heart. The gospel changes the heart. The heart then guides the hand. Now, you remove the gospel and you need more laws to fill the vacuum. But more laws breeds resentment, oppression, and rebellion. Then what happens is that the lawless sinners complain against God for the rebellions and tragedies that follow. So what the pundits are doing is complaining and saying, we need more law. That's not the solution. More law is not the solution. More God, more gospel is a solution. Okay. That's what the issue is. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you rebel, and you disobey, and you rebel, you're going to get yourself, what, 38 more years in the desert. Yeah, and if you think about it, our nation early believed in God. Not everybody, but there was a lot of godly people. They had decency laws in movies. They had decency laws for radio. there certainly were bad people, but for overall, they were God country people who followed the law. Then they removed God and prayer from the schools in 1963. Then they taught people it's okay to kill the unborn. And then lawlessness increases because the heart is now Wicked it, you know, it's okay to kill the unborn. It's okay to redefine marriage It's okay to do what I want and as it says in the Old Testament It says everyone did what was right in their own eyes and in the judges. Yeah Yeah, the sanitization of selfishness everybody was okay to do their own thing and So what the leaders need to do is not promote a religion in particular, except I think they should promote Christianity because it's the truth, but they should then promote laws that encourage pastors teachers to flourish in society so that they can teach more people they should make churches tax-exempt etc things like this to be able to get people their hearts changed and this will heal the nation it's simple but the pundits are secularists and so they want to put band-aids on problems and they don't understand they don't understand that the law is for the ungodly for the profane the uh... the killers the murderers so that's what the law is for this is why we're having trouble because that's it's a heart problem not a law problem yeah we need more people to get out and vote and follow a godly and christian and a rightly Awarded vote, applied vote. Yeah, that's true. And all the Christian church, the whole Christians, all true Christians, true Christians, not Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. True Bible-believing, justified, saved, born-again Christians should be praying for this country and praying for a spiritual revival in this country. It should be taught from the pulpit on a regular basis. Don't forget. pray for this country, pray for its revival, and it shouldn't be so oftenly said that it's just a phrase that people dismiss, but the encouragement, and even have meetings, they should have, churches should also have a prayer meeting, a prayer night meeting, wherever you can, it can come up whenever you want. I agree with most of that, I kind of disagree with the segregation part, I know that we've had multi, multi-religion, multi-type religion meetings, and my brother's Mormon, God bless him. He believes what he believes. But he is raising some wonderful daughters. And to do good in society and to respect Christ, unfortunately, their version of Christ is not my Christian version of Christ. I still love him. I still accept him. When Mormons pray, they're praying to their demonic God. That's just the way it is, because their gods are not real. So true Christians need to pray to the true God. And the God of Mormonism is an exalted man from another planet who has a goddess wife and has relations and produce offspring. This is not the God of Scripture. And the Bible says, I forgot the exact verse, it says they served by nature those which are not gods and they served demons that they thought were gods. to their demonic influences. That's what Mormonism is. I know that people in Utah listening to me right now are very, very angered by that. Well, invite me down, because I live in Idaho. Invite me down, and we'll meet at a church or a building, and I'll go through and answer all your questions, and we'll talk about it. But Mormonism is not Christian, and neither is Jehovah's Witnesses, and neither is Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. I've got Jehovah's Witnesses that come over once a month now, just because I like to talk to them. I like to try to witness to them, and they even got one of their brothers snowing. He's been around for a while, and they brought him out for me, and we can sit down and quote a scripture, and a couple of the people that are with him get a little befuddled. They say, well, no, it's... It's not just the 41,000, the 40,000, it's... We're a little off topic here, but yeah. But the thing is that that is, they're false religions. People have to understand, and I believe that Christians are under-educated in church. They don't understand that this is a serious spiritual issue. There are demonic forces out there. They're alive and well in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, one is Pentecostal, let's see, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness churches, Christian science and stuff, and even in the SDA. Boy, people are saying, man, you are judgmental. Yeah, I am. That's what the nature of truth is. It is a scalpel that separates truth from error. And you've got to know what the truth is. And so true born, that's why I said true born again Christians who have access to the blood of Christ, to the true and living God at the throne in heaven, ask God, please. Save this nation send people to to live in godly ways in high offices of power use us Put it upon our hearts what to pray for and you pray for the salvation of these people you pray for the salvation of the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses the Catholics Eastern Orthodox the Muslims because we don't want them in control when he said when Roman Catholicism was in control we had the crusade we had the Inquisition when Islam was in control we have killing and England was not much better, sometimes in France too, there was a lot of that. opportunities you have. Yeah, that's right. I say, if you want to mess something up, you just need people and time. But the point is that what we need is we need born-again Christians submitting to the Word of God. Those Protestants who were doing it, not like the Catholics were, because the Catholics were, I can't even repeat what they were doing, I can't repeat it, but on the air. Thank you very much. But yeah, they were doing bad stuff, but they were not true Christians, because that's not what the Bible says to do. Okay, so anyway, thank you so much. We should have a council on this. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call at the bottom of the hour, the number is 877-207-2276. Pastor Sam from Missouri, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, my friend, how are you? We haven't spoken in a while. I saw you today in passing, and across my, I thought I'd ask you a question that I didn't get a chance to ask the last time we had a conversation. Sure, no problem. In 1 Timothy chapter 4, verse 10, it says that God is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe these things command and teach. How is that compatible with limited atonement? Oh, it's very compatible. Because we have to ask questions. What does it mean to be the savior? I ask people, is he the savior of those who are damned? Well, no, he's not. but if he's a savior of all men then what does it mean? well it means all types of men because initially Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matthew 15 24 he was a savior only for the nation of Israel that was the covenant aspect but they broke the covenant so we were grafted in as a gentiles and that was prophesied but that's another topic so he's a savior of all men means that God is is uh... the Savior of not only of all people, but especially of believers. So salvation is applied to those who have faith. Christ's death is sufficient for all, but efficient only for the elect. Okay? That fits perfectly into the limited atonement, right? Yeah, well, that doesn't really make sense because the text says the Savior of all men, and then it makes the statement especially those that believe so you have you have all men and then you have those that believe so it couldn't be did he say okay did he save the ones who are damned yeah but yeah yes yes in my in i would have to have to uh i would have to i would have to conclude like I believe that you're doing, that yes, it does include the damned, because that's what it says. It says... Hold on, hold on, hold on. To be a savior means to save them from that judgment of God. So if they face the judgment of God and they're under that judgment, then they've not been saved. So how then is he the savior? Yes. How then is he the savior of those who are damned? He's the Savior. See, the only reason why they are damned is because of their reasoning and decision-making ability. That's not true. He saved them. That's not true. I'm sorry, I'm going to disagree with you. You said, hold on, you said the only reason is because of their failure of reasoning abilities. That means that people can come to faith by their reasoning, but that's refuted by Jesus. Let me explain. It's refuted by Jesus in John 6, 65, where he says, you cannot come to me unless it's granted by the father. So reasoning is wiped out as a possibility of why you come to Christ. You can't come. It's not based on reasoning. Okay. Well, see, the only thing about it is that God does grant it, but he grants it on the behalf of Christ. It's not just granted, just simply for being granted. But here's the thing. The ability, see God puts faith within mankind's makeup. Mankind has faith, but the faith of the gospel comes to mankind because of what Christ did. The gospel is preached. It's just, how can they hear without a preacher? How can he preach? Except he's been sent. So it's not just slathered all over the place. The gospel has to be preached. And when the gospel is preached, mankind has an opportunity at that point too. But you don't think that you don't think that when the gospel is preached, a person has an opportunity to believe that's what you're saying. No, no, no. Let's get back to the topic of 1 Timothy 4.10. Because you said the issue here is if Jesus is someone's savior, it means he saved them. It's like there's a boat out there that has a life raft, a life boat out there. A ship has sunk and these people, say five people, are in this life boat and they're out of water, they're out of food, they're starving, they're not doing well, they've been out there for a few days, and a ship goes to dock and says, yeah, we saved, we're their saviors, we saved them, and they're still out there in the water. You can't say there's a savior, that they saved him. It doesn't make sense. I get what, it's not intended to fit your logic, but what the text says. No, it's not my logic. It has to be. It's not my logic. Here's the thing, let me do an analogy like you just did. I have a hotel, and the hotel has a thousand rooms in it, and I tell people, Uh, anybody, everybody that wants to come to this hotel can come. There's a thousand rooms and then, but people who supposedly know me are telling people there's only 518 rooms. But the truth is, is that there are a thousand rooms. So people are going to believe what they heard. And he said, well, how could there be a thousand rooms if these people are telling me that there's only 518 rooms? It doesn't mean that the thousand rooms aren't there. It's just that people no longer believe that the salvation or the hotel, in this case, is there. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, it's a really bad analogy. So a thousand rooms, why not infinite rooms? Because the blood of Christ is infinite in its value. Hold on, hold on. I got you. But then just because someone says there's only 500, you know, that's not it. That's it. Look, did Jesus cancel their sin debt at the cross? Did he actually pay for their sins? Did he? Paid for everybody's sins. Okay, so if everybody's sins are paid for, that means there's no more sin. It's gone. No, that's not what that means. Yes, it is. I understand your logic. Let me explain, let me explain. Go ahead, go ahead. Sin is a legal debt because Jesus says, our Father, heart and heaven, hallowed be thy name. He says in Matthew 6, 12, forgive us our debts. In the parallel, Luke 11, 4, he says, forgive us our sins. Jesus equates sin with legal debt. Do you agree? I understand what you're saying. No, no, no. You have to agree, because that's what Jesus said. He said, in one version, he said, forgive us. I'm telling you, he said, forgive us our sins, forgive us our debts. That's what he said. That's what he said. Right? That's just saying, but it says, only thing about that, in another place it says, forgive us of our trespasses. That's what I'm saying, is that it says debt in one gospel, and the other gospel it says, forgive us of our trespasses, and we can get those who trespass against us. Exactly. Luke 11, 4, Matthew 6, 12. In one version, Jesus says, forgive us our debts. There are debts. Ophilema, in Luke 11, forgive us our sins. Hermartia. So, Jesus equates sin with legal debt. If you can't agree with this, you're disagreeing with Jesus himself. Well, that's not fair. It is fair. I'm reading it look this is Matthew 6 12 Jesus quote in the red and forgive us our debts as we have forgiven our debtors now what I'm going to do is go over to Luke 11 where the prayer you know when you pray father how would be the name etc etc in verse 4 and forgive us our sins for we ourselves forgive everyone who's indebted to us And right there in Luke 11 4, the word sins is from Martiah, and in debt, it's from Ophelia. So right there in Luke 11 4, he says, forgive us our sins, and as we for ourselves, also forgive everyone who's indebted to us. And that's him equating sin with legal debt. He does it. This is proof. And if you can't accept what Jesus says, then I can't trust you. Well, see, the, the challenge here, Matt, is that you're using word play. So I understand what you, by using, by you using the word debt to make your point. I got that. But if you use the word trespass, it means something else. Okay. When we talk about trespass, we're talking about a violation against me or a violation against you, or as it says in, um, John 3 and 4, I think it is, that sin is the transgression of the law. So when you trespass, So the trespasses, you know, that's a different word than debt. So I'm not disagreeing with Jesus. It's just that I'm not using the word debt in the way that you are using it. No, the way he uses it. It's not me. It's him. Forgive us our debts of feeling. Peck, we've got a break coming up. Stay on the air. I'm going to show you. I'm going to read you from Jesus. I know who you are. You're a polite guy. We've had our discussion before on Clubhouse. I'm grateful you called. I am. I hope they're all listening. But you're not believing Jesus. And I'm going to show you, okay? Okay. All right. All right. I'm going to mute up. We'll be right back. Okay. Hey, folks. I like this guy. He's a nice guy. But we'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. is read you what Jesus says in Matthew 6. Where are you reading it so I can read it too? Matthew 6, okay. Are you reading the King James? Yeah, I think this is King James. Because I like the NESB, but I'll do the King James if you want to do the King James. It's up to you, okay? But, uh, it doesn't matter. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty good with any of it. So, okay. NSB is just nice and easy. I like it. All right. So this is what he says. Jesus says, you know, our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Verse 11, give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts. Oh, Philemon, as we forgive our debtors from Ophelia and lead us not into temptation. Okay. but deliver us from evil, for yours is the kingdom and power and glory. For if you forgive others their transgressions, that's lawlessness, that's transgression, excuse me, that's paraptomata, our heavenly father will also forgive you. for if you forgive others than your father if you do not forgive others your father will not forgive your transgressions your paraptomata so he's saying forgive us our debts which are equating with transgressions that's Matthew 6 12 through 15 and the other one in Luke 11 give us this day our daily bread Luke 11 3 forgive us our sins because in the parallel of Matthew 6 12 forgive us our debts so look at this Luke 11 3 give us each day our daily bread Matthew 6 11 give us this day our daily bread back to Luke and forgive us our sins now to Matthew and forgive us our debts Jesus equates sin with legal debt. There's no way out of this, okay? Are you with me? I don't have a problem with being indebted because of sin, but the challenge is that the text in 1 Timothy 4 and 10 that he's the savior of all men. Now, if I take that and apply it to where we have it right here, he just told these people, not because of limited atonement, but he just told these people that if you forgive your enemies, if you forgive people, if you let people out of the debt that they owe you, your heavenly father will let you out of the debt that you owe him. And if you don't, then he won't let you out of the debt that you owe. That's conditional. That's not actually limited. That's limited to the fact that if you're obedient or not right or wrong. Well, you don't, that's wrong. You don't want to get into work salvation. So here's a question for you. Jesus has to be, he has to be the savior of all men. And what do you do with first Samuel three 14 God is he saying, well, I, I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. Does that include Jesus' sacrifice? Well, that particular passage where you are applies to Eli and his house and forever is in that particular, in that culture, whatever had different connotations, and one of them would have been until the end of this covenant that he's under. I mean, you can check that in various places, so I would not apply that to the atonement that Christ brought, because under the, under the, under the dispensation that Eli was under, There wasn't anything that could actually do what Christ did. There was nothing that could. So I wouldn't apply that there myself. Although I do see what I do see what you mean. I don't want to sound like I'm being disingenuous to the... That's okay. That's okay. I see what you're saying. I consider your response within the logical realm of that. Okay, so I'm not gonna worry about that. All right, I disagree with you, but I'm not gonna argue with you about it. So let's go over to this verse right here. Let's go to this verse Colossians 2 14 could talk about in verse 13, Colossians 2 13, having forgiven us all of our transgressions per optomata again, having canceled out the certificate of debt. Okay, that's the Greek word kairagraphon, handwriting, uh, handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. So he canceled this sin debt at the cross. Right? Would you agree? He canceled the sin debt at the cross? What's that? I couldn't hear you. Maybe there's a glitch in the line or something. Oh, okay. Can you hear me now? Yeah. I agree. Okay. So then if it's canceled, it doesn't exist anymore, right? What doesn't exist anymore? The sin debt is gone. It's canceled at the cross. So it's not canceled when you believe it's already canceled at the cross. No, but see, here's the thing. It only, what the text says is especially to them that believe. Yes, I understand that. That's because God grants them faith. Look at Colossians. We're talking about the legality here. Especially, I get what you're saying about the granting, but this isn't saying anything about granting. What it says is, especially to them that believe, which is making a differentiation between all being saved and all that believe that are saved. But you said, you said that, you know, that he's a savior of all men. That means that people who are damned, but then it doesn't make any sense. Oh, I didn't actually say that as to what's written in the text, because at the bottom of that, it's either at the bottom or the top of it, because I'm not looking at it right now. It says these things command and teach. Yes, I understand. But look, we're doing the logic thing here with the scriptures. Jesus canceled the sin dead at the cross, right? Right? Yes, he canceled it, but it doesn't apply unless the person believes in the resurrection. No, that's wrong. That's wrong. You're preaching humanism. How could that be wrong, Matt? Because I'll tell you how. It's not cancelled when you believe. It's not cancelled when you believe. It's cancelled at the cross. Colossians 2.14 says so. That's what it says. What happens when you believe is you're justified. Jesus cancelled the sin that at the cross. If he cancelled it for everybody, then everybody has to go to heaven, because there's no sin left. Yes. That's logical, but see, that's not the way God set it up. That's not the way it's set up in the Bible. The Bible says we have access into this grace through faith. That's what the text says in Romans, that we have access into this grace through faith. The Bible says, watch this, it says in Corinthians chapter 15, if there be no resurrection, we are yet in our sins. It is the resurrection that is the differentiation point between who salvation is applied to. Salvation is for all. But the application of salvation only comes in those who believe in not only the death and the burial, but also the resurrection. Only those who believe in the death, burial, and the resurrection. Because if you don't believe in the resurrection, other people have already died. But none of them rose from the dead. Yes, but the ones who believe are the ones granted belief. Philippians 129 to you has been granted to believe. Why doesn't God grant that to everybody? Why doesn't God grant that to everyone? Here's what it says, though, in Philippians. It says, on the behalf of Christ. Christ paid the price so that one person could be believed. That's what it means. It's not what it says. It's not what it says. No, I'm going to say this. You're doing violence to the word of God. You're twisting God's word. You're twisting it. You're absolutely twisting it. What it says is, oh, yes, it is. Yes, you are. It has been granted for Christ's sake. For to you, it has been granted. Hold on, let me read with God's word. Let's see what it actually says. For to you, it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe, but also to suffer. God grants that you believe. Not that you have the opportunity to believe, but that you believe. That's what it says. Do you agree? Right. But see, what you're doing is, you talk about violence, what you're doing is, you're creating a sub A subset of sinners. No, I'm not. What does the text say? It says he granted that you believe. It says Jesus died for sinners. Yes, I got that. It says Jesus died for sinners. Did Jesus die for sinners or just some other sinners? Does the text say he died for some other sinners or all other sinners? Well, hold on. That's the wrong question. What does it say in Philippians? I'm trying to show you. God grants that people have faith. What I'm saying is that what it says in Philippians is that in the behalf of Christ, I wrote a whole book on this. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm like you. I'm like you, man. I wrote a whole book on this. No, you didn't. No, no, no. You don't understand it. No. No, I know who you are. We've had discussions before and you're polite enough. I know it. I know it. I know when I'm enjoying the conversation. Yeah. And in the group of anti-Calvinists that misrepresent Calvinism quite frequently and regularly. I'm not an anti-Calvinist anymore. Well, you guys say that I'm not Christian. I take it back. I remove my words. I apologize for judging you because I, that was my fault. So I, I would draw my statement of judging massively. That group needs to repent of its false teaching and its division of the body of Christ. Judgment of God is upon them. When they, when they, when they hold on, when they condemn Calvinists and say Calvinists are not Christians, and then they condemn them and mock them and misrepresent and won't stand to be corrected by someone like myself who comes in and says, not what we teach is he'll, yes, it is. And then they block me. So I can't speak. So that's not how it works. That's how it has been. You know that because you've been in there. So look, for to you it has been granted for Christ's sake to believe. It's been granted. It's the Aorist passive indicative. It means God is the one who grants that you have that faith. Here's the question. Why doesn't God grant it to everyone? It has been granted to everyone. You mean he's granted justifying faith to everybody? You're a universalist. No, I'm not a universalist. What I'm saying is this text and the other text says that God is the Savior of all men, especially them that believe. Only the people that believe can be saved. If you don't believe, you can't be saved. That's right. God grants that we believe. But what I'm saying, well, he granted it through Christ. Christ paid the price for a person to believe. God grants it that we believe. And that's right. And Jesus said, it's the work of God that you believe. And so why doesn't God grant that belief to everybody? Let me ask you. When you say granted, let me see if I understand you right. We've got 30 seconds. We've got 30 seconds. I've got a question for you. And you can call me back tomorrow. You can answer it. When you say granted, you mean God forced it upon you? No, you don't understand. You don't understand. I can go through the Aorist active indicative tomorrow with you, but here's a question. We only have 20 seconds left, okay? Or less than that. Does God know what to do to bring anybody to faith? The answer, of course, is yes. Then why doesn't he bring everybody to faith? That's the question. We'll talk tomorrow, okay? Alright, brother. Take care, Maslick. We'll talk to you again. Okay, because there's a music going, okay? We're out of time, buddy. Alright, we'll talk to you later. Have a good day. You too. And there you go. He's polite enough, but not logical enough. That's what happens when you have bad theology. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed it, and for those who are waiting, my apologies, but I love talking like this. Anyway, call back tomorrow, and hopefully we'll talk to you then. God bless, everybody. Another program powered by the Truth Network.