The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live. And if you want, you can give me a call. It's easy, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. And you can also send me an email. That is easy. Just send an email to info at carm.org, info at C-A-R-M.O-R-G. Put the subject line, radio comment, or you have questions. Sometimes I just kind of go through them and just kind of do a quick and slick answer. I like doing that, just kind of get their stuff going. So, let's see, let's see. I'm going to try and get to something here. So I've released some articles on the CARM homepage, on the CARM site. And one of them is, and I want to remind people about this, Because one of them is a priesthood table, and the other one deals with the existence of God using transcendentals. This may sound highfalutin, and you don't need to know all this stuff. But let me say something. One of the jobs of the pastor, I'm an ex-pastor, but one of the jobs is to equip the body of Christ for the work of ministry, for the service that we have to do. And so what I try and do on the website is present sophisticated arguments occasionally that can be understood by the average Joe. and Jane. And so those articles are there, but the priesthood table is something that I think is very useful. You can go to karm.org and just type in priesthood table. Why is it important? Because if you're talking to a Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox person and you want something that will really demonstrate that their church has some problems. Because you want to present the true gospel. They have a priesthood in both of those churches. The priesthood is supposed to be tied through ancient pedigree down to the first apostles. And then they offer a priestly work in their churches on a regular basis with guys who are specially ordained with special garments at an altar that they offer sacrifices at. This is all Old Testament. And that's the point, is it's Old Testament. Old Testament theology dragged from the Old Testament put into the New Testament as though that's the New Testament teaching and it is not. This demonstrates that they have a false priesthood. Why is that so important? Because their church authority is tied to their priesthood. So this is an easy way for you to demonstrate that a priesthood that they have is just simply not biblical. So what they'll do, generally when I've used this, is they'll say that, well, we don't go with just scripture. We go with tradition. And that's what they do. They just say it's tradition. And I say, well, how do you know the tradition's right? Well, because our church says so, and things like that. And I just say, look, obviously, the place of the priesthood that you're talking about is in the Old Testament, Levitical priesthood. But that's abrogated. It's no longer necessary. Because we have the priesthood of all believers in 1 Peter 2, 5 and 7, and also the priesthood of Christ, who is the high priest after the order of Melchizedek. And I'll go in and add some more of that into that article, because I want people to be well-equipped with some counter-arguments and things like that. But that priesthood table is there, and I've shown it to people. And so far, the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox cannot deal with it, except to just either dismiss it or say their church says so, that's why it's true, or their tradition says so, that's why it's true. And both of those just don't carry any water. So that's one thing I've offered for you out there to be, not entertained, but to be equipped. I want to equip Christians for the work of ministry, for the service, the work of service, Ephesians 4.12. And that's another thing is I'm going to be working on an article On that, I actually am working an article about halfway through on what does it mean for the pastor, the elder, etc. to equip the Christian body for the work of service. Work of service, work of ministry. What does it mean? I'm going to do an article doing that. And I'm also working on an article which caught my interest, this concept caught my interest about the apostasy, the coming apostasy. Because I've been talking about this on the radio here the past few days, the idea of apostasy. and how churches just aren't stepping up and doing what they've got to do across the board. The whole of the Christian community across the board in America is not doing its job. There are individual churches and pastors who are doing very well. They are defending the Christian faith and they're equipping their people. They're out there, absolutely. However, a lot of churches are not. And what kind of triggered this little tirade of mine this week was when I went to a local church, a very large church, and three services and all this stuff, and the sermon was just mamby-pamby, and wasn't Christocentric, and it was moralistic, and it was just not deep. Not that you have to have deep stuff all the time, but there was no depth. to it, it was shallow, and I was just dismayed at the lack of substance that seemed to be there. There were some good points, but the point I'm trying to make is that that sermon could have been preached unchanged in a Mormon church and they would have accepted it. That's a problem. And so the idea of the Christian church not really being equipped I've done seminars where I've asked questions. How many believe in the Trinity? How many believe in the deity of Christ? Why was he baptized? Is he a man right now? Can you lose your salvation? What's justification? Various things that I've found out that they basically, Christians just overall just don't know their stuff. And it's pretty dismal. And so, you know, one of the things I try and do on the CARM website is to produce information for you to just go check things out. so that you can be equipped. That's what the site's for, to equip Christians and to reach the lost. So we have three things saying, to glorify God, equip the Christians, reach the lost. That's the purpose of Karm. Glorify God by recognizing his truth and proclaiming his truth. To equip the Christians so that they can understand what the scriptures are actually teaching. And then last is to reach the lost. The primary goal is not to reach the lost, it's to equip the Christians and to bring glory to God. That is above the issue of reaching the lost because you guys out there are the ones who are supposed to be doing that. Now, you know, I spent two hours last night on Clubhouse defending the Trinity and politely until this one obstreperous guy got in and claimed victory and said I couldn't understand. It's just ridiculous. He ruined our conversations, but I was there for two hours defending the Christian Trinity and showing problems with Unitarianism, oneness theology, and things like this. And they want me back. They're oneness people. They want me back because it was a polite conversation, for the most part, how that one jerk got in there. And so what I want to do is be able to equip Christians for stuff like that. When they come to your door, what do you say? Do you say to the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, please come inside, let's talk? Or do you say, no, thank you. I know you're not true. Go to my neighbor and preach your false doctrines there. What do you do? So are the Christian churches presenting the truth? Are the Christian churches providing opportunities to learn things like, what is the basics of the Christian faith? And then have levels of advanced theology that can go on for people who are interested in that. and then to apply what they've learned, witnessing to Mormons, witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses, witnessing to the Roman Catholics, to the Eastern Orthodox, to the Muslims. This is the equipping of the Christians. And what I think should be done is a series should be presented at a church where you attend and you have pages that you continually add into your notebook full of information. so that you can have a smattering, an entry level set of information to be able to know how to handle a lot of stuff. This kind of thing can be put in an electronic format so you can have it on your phone. You can go onto the Karm website and you can have answers. And you can, you know, in a classroom study where you can learn stuff because the Christians are supposed to be other-centered, not self-centered, not, hey, I got to get up and have a cup of coffee at the house and get the air conditioning in the car and drive to church for comfortable this and that, nice worship music, and then go out and eat at a restaurant and then go home and watch a game or whatever it is. You know, and then that's your Christianity. Or maybe you might mention Jesus to somebody once a month at work. You know, this kind of a thing. No, no, no. It's insufficient. We're called to pick up the cross daily and follow after Christ. And if you don't do it on a daily basis, you're not worthy of him. Luke, I think it's 923, 928. And so this is what Jesus calls us to do. So are the Christians doing it across the board? Well, the answer is no. And part of the ramifications of this will be the coming apostasy out of Ephesians chapter 2, which all this stuff is kind of interconnected with me and the arrival of the Antichrist is coming. So when? I don't know. Is it tomorrow or next year or next decade or next century or next millennium? I don't know. That's up for God to decide. But it does say that there's going to be a falling away, an apostasy. And what that means is the Christian church as a whole is going to fall away and go apostate. So I'm writing an article on what does that mean? What might it mean? So getting through and doing that kind of stuff and there you go and that's why the CARM.org website exists. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. It's to equip you. to give you information that you need. It's easy to read, most of it is, okay? Sometimes I gotta get in there and write some pretty sophisticated stuff, sometimes, but 98% of everything is just, you're just tired, well, can I read this and get the answer? There it is, that's what it's for, that's how it's designed, and please check it out, karm.org. Okay, let's get to, let's see, the longest waiting is Mike from Ohio. Mike, welcome, you're on the air. Well, thank you for taking my call, sir. I have a quick question. Well, I'll go with this one first. What is your go-to verse? When you're kind of feeling down, or what do you live by, or what do you love, what verse resonates with you? You don't have one? No. My go-to is my knowledge and experience of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the one I go to. Some people like verses. I'm just different and it doesn't do it for me. I mean, I like, um, I like just spending time with him and praying. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, I always, I always lean back onto a Proverbs three, five and six. Um, yeah. Yeah, I always try to lean on that one. You know, I'm in construction, I'm a daily guy, I meet people, and I, you know, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding and all your ways of knowledge, and you'll make your path straight. My question is, as well, there's so many different versions of the Bible. I mean, my mom likes the living back in the day. There's a New American Standard. I mean, I looked on the Bible app and there's 57 of them, maybe, maybe even 70. I don't know. Yeah, right. Which ones do you like, sir? I like the New American Standard 1995 version. I kind of grew up with it since the 80s. And I've just never looked back. I like it. And though there are more modern translations, it's fine. There's a 2020 version as well. But I don't know. You like the 95? Yeah, that's just me. Yeah. But I can tell you why there's so many versions, if you're interested. It's up to you. Yes, I am. Yeah, sure. So the example I use is a Spanish phrase, I'm hungry, which is in Spanish, yo tengo hambre. Now, what it literally, the literal translation is yo tengo, which is I, I have, hambre, hunger. So what it's literally saying is I, I have hunger. That's a literal translation. So if we were to have a literal translation of I, I am hungry, We get it, and we've got a break coming up. And what we'll do, well, I'll play off of this, and then I'll play with it a little bit and show you what translations do in light of that. Okay, so hold on. Can I listen to you off here? You can if you want, sure, it's up to you. Okay. Yeah, all right, thank you. All right, God bless. Bye-bye. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll talk to Jermaine after we talk about these Bible version stuff. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. All right, so to continue on with the previous caller's question, As I use the example, yo tengo hambre, in Spanish, I have hunger. That's the literal translation. So an NASB, for example, wouldn't translate it that way. Just using this as an example, Spanish to English. It would say something like, I have hunger. That'd be more literal translation, not, I have hunger, but I have hunger. Now, the NIV might say something like, I'm hungry. And a paraphrase might say, I'm starving. And so all of those are sufficient and accurate for the intention of what's going on. The thing about the Greek language is that it's a little complicated, it's an understatement, and you can say things the way we can't do it in Greek, I mean in English, excuse me. So, Agathos, Anthropos, for example, in Greek. Ha is the word the, Agathos is the word good, and Anthropos is the word man. So literally it'd be the good man. Ha, Agathos, Anthropos, the endings match in Greek. Those endings are what we call, in declension we call it, masculine nominative and so that would be it's a masculine form Agathos is masculine nominative and singular and so is Anthropos masculine nominative singular nominative means a subject the reason I'm saying this I'm not trying to confuse you is that in Greek you can actually say the good man but you can also say the good without the word man being there implying it's a man because the ending of the word good has gender and number included in the word so agathos is masculine nominative singular in the greek you learn all this when you're learning greek which means it's masculine it's a subject the man the good man, the good, but then the word man is not there, so in the translation they might have the good with the word man in italics, implying that it's not literally there, but that's what the Greek carries. Now, if we want to say the good men, it'd be agathoi, anthropoi. And so that is masculine plural nominative. And so I won't get too deep into this, OK? All it's saying is that the Greek language is really interesting, that nouns carry number, which is singular and plural. It carries gender, masculine, feminine, or neuter, and it carries case, nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative. Nominative is the subject, genitive, so is possession, like that is the dog of that man. And so the dog of, it's a genitive. Okay, I'm sorry for hurting your heads. And so the point is that Greek is a powerful language and you can translate things very literally or meaningfully or paraphrased depending on what the intention of that translation is. And so you can have some long sentences in Greek, and because this kind of thing happens, you can get some very precise translations, literally, but you can also get some very precise translations in the overall meaning. So a literal translation of, io tengo hunger, is I have hunger, but it's like saying, I'm hungry. And an NIV might just say, I'm hungry, that's all it is. And so an ESV or an NASB might say, I have hunger. So that's all that's going on. And that's why there's different translations, because they address the issue of translation differently. And one last thing before we get on to the caller, Jermaine. I remember a really interesting situation in seminary where we had a translator come in and talked about one of the instances of a translation problem they had with a particular tribe in a jungle setting. They had modern accoutrements, they had modern mirrors and pans and swords, or daggers I should say, knives. They were in contact with a lot of modernity and had been modernized to some degree. And they didn't have a written language, and they were translating the language. And it came to the place where it said, where Jesus says, build your house on the rock, not on the sand. Because you don't want it to be immovable. You want it to be immovable, excuse me. And in that culture at that time, If you built a house on a rock, it would be swept away during the flood season because the rocks were flat. And so you couldn't anchor anything into a rock. But the way they would anchor their homes was to take bamboo poles, or wood poles, I'm not sure which, and they would drive them down into the sand, you know, 10 feet. And then they would build their houses on that firm foundation of the sand. Well, what do you do when you're translating? Do you translate literally, which would confuse them, or do you translate dynamically, which would then get the meaning? And so they decided to translate dynamically and say, build your house on the foundation of the strong sand, because that's the only way that culture would understand what it meant. And he said, what they did was they put a note explaining the cultural difference, a paragraph that explained everything so that the reader In that language, we understand, oh, the original says this, but we get the concept. This is part of the issues of dynamic translation. We just lost Jermaine. So sorry about that, Jermaine. I know he'll probably call back later. So anyway, all that information, you see? He was going to ask about the Council of Trent. And we could talk about the Council of Trent. We could talk about all kinds of stuff. I have nobody waiting right now. If you want to give me a call, it's easy, 877-207-2276. A lot of information. Now, I want to ask you listeners for something, and that is your support. So let me tell you what's happening. The arrival of AI, where you just go to ChatGPT, or Perplexity, or Grok, or Gemini, and you ask a question, it's here. And these things are very useful, very powerful. And more and more people are simply going to, like ChatGPT, just asking, for example, what's the Trinity? They don't need to go to CARM anymore and say, what's a Trinity? They'll go to Chad GPT. And for the most part, it does very well. Seriously, it really does. I've tested it out. So this means not only my site, but other sites are being scraped by AI. Scraping is the term used when they go through They glean the entire site. They take all the information in the entire site. They put it in its own data bank. And then when a question is asked, CARM is accessed, other websites will be accessed to talk with the Trinity. It will then read the contextual analysis of the word Trinity in various things and then formulate an answer. So that could be good and it cannot be good. But for the most part, it does pretty well. So why is this an issue? Because it means people aren't going to be going to calm as much, which means not as much support. We've got a break coming up. I'm going to continue talking about this a little bit and explain what's going on and what we're going to do to mitigate that problem. And also just trying to let you know, we do need that support. Be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to this show. If you want to give me a call, you can, 877-207-2276. A lot of stuff's been happening in the past couple of minutes, and so I actually forgot what I was talking about before the break. I know I was on a roll, so maybe someone could type it in. You were talking about this. Because we're talking about CHAT-GPT and somebody told me there's a case where someone ended his own life based on something out of CHAT-GPT. And so I asked for that article. It kind of threw me there for a little bit, so I wanted to check it out. But at any rate, so there we go. What was I talking about? I can't remember. You know that happens when you get older. That's all right. So thanks for that link Laura, appreciate it, got it. We got a caller coming in. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276 and you can also email me at info at carm.org info at c-a-r-m dot o-r-g. Now I remember what I was talking about. was web scraping, what the AIs do. And so what this means is that people will frequent the Christian websites less and less. Well, long story short, in order for us to stay afloat and pay the missionaries, et cetera, who were doing this work, the same kind of work of equipping in other countries, we need that support. And that's why I'm letting you know that please consider supporting us. We do need it, and I'm going to be putting a newsletter out about that. If you'd be so kind as to support us at $10 a month, all you've got to do is go to CARM.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate. Everything you need is right there. And we also need this to help finish the new website that is there. We've begun testing the early version, the beta alpha version I think it is. and adding articles to it and then it'll be wiped out and then they can do a new import from the live site. But it's up and running in a secure location and a few of us are being able to go in there and check it out and man is it fast. It is so good. It's going to have so many good features to it that we have a very talented programmer who has literally learned stuff as it's released. AI is going so fast that he'll say, this new feature came out in AI with this whatever, and he learned it. And so then he's implementing it. He goes, this is only three weeks old and they can do this now. And he goes, now it's in CARM, the new CARM site. There you go, we're gonna be presenting a lot of information and the technology will be there before. Why, what happened to the callers? We just had two callers coming in and it just went blank. Interesting. So, both of them did. I wonder if there's a problem. I don't know, maybe, that's interesting. Could be a coincidence. So, at any rate, the thing is that in order for us to stay afloat, we do, and have the radio stay on the air, we need your support. Simple, okay, simple. Just go to karm.org forward slash donate. $10 a month is what we ask. We're trying to get 1,000 people and obviously it'll be $10,000 a month and that's what we need in order to keep the lights on, have the website there, pay the developers, pay the missionaries. My salary Otherwise, I've got to get a job. Even at my age of 68, I'll have to get another job. And I'm not complaining. It's just what it is. I could be a security guard someplace. Maybe I can witness on my job without getting into too much trouble. So anyway, this kind of stuff. All right, there you go. I'm going to do now, just get to some of the callers. Sorry, callers. Some of the emails, some of the emails. I got some emails here, I'm just gonna go through them. Let's see, get into this one right here. uh... let's go to this one here let's see all this is a long one uh... lives in oklahoma there are many ones pentecostals out there who interesting uh... there are a couple of things on the website which were incorrect at least concerning the one is pentecostal which i personally know for one i was it was stated in the website i guess it's karma that men dress up with her ties this is not true uh... the ones that i've seen They generally would, but I know that things are changing. These articles were written many years ago. The men do wear dress shirts and slacks, but never ties. Interesting. They do not wear jewelry. They only wear long sleeves. No makeup. The ones who are truly saved. All right, just little things like that. The men are all This is a great comment. The men all part their hair in a dorky side part. That's awesome. That is so good. The men all part their hair in a dorky side part. Then it cracks me up. I love stuff like that. Sorry, folks, but it's awesome. I can't help it. Dorky side part. I was watching some videos last night, late with my wife, YouTube videos, and I typed in those stretch bands at the gym, you know, you use for stretching and doing workouts, where they snap on people. Oh, man. Man, I was laughing because some of them are so funny, the reactions. Okay, sorry about that. I got to get myself back under control, getting the spiritual stuff. So anyway, he goes on, he goes, most of them are good people, although they shun others generally, unless they think they can get in, get you into a revival tent. Yeah, that's true. And they're poor tippers at restaurants. So there you go. That's okay. You know, I appreciate that. All right. All right. All right. Let me get back on. Get back on with them callers. Oscar from New York. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes. I have a question. If God made a spirit, can God destroy the spirit? In other words, why would the devil, the unsaved people, and those who are not saved, why would they spend eternity in conscious torment? Okay, so it's several questions. So can God destroy a spirit that doesn't exist? Yes, he can. He's already created it, and his existence is dependent on God's work. So yeah, he can do that. But why doesn't he do that then instead of eternal conscious torment, right? Is that right? Yeah. No, in other words, I was listening to a pastor, and he said that the unsaint wouldn't spend eternity in hell, you know, with eternal foment. And I found it, I find it a terrible, horrible doctrine. I mean, if God made His Spirit and God can destroy His Spirit, why would God put people in eternity, you know, eternal conscious foment? Why would God do that? Because that's what the right thing to do is. Whatever God does is always right. So if God's going to put people in eternal torment, it's the right thing to do. See, our offenses are against the infinitely holy God. And so when we sin against him, the only way to be forgiven of that is if he himself takes our place in judgment. And he did that in the cross. And so then we can have eternal life with Christ. Now what about those who've rejected Christ? Well, if God were to annihilate them, there's a problem. In the Bible, punishment is always experienced, always experienced. So if I were to punish my daughter, for example, you know, when she was young, I'd say, go to your room and you can't come out for an hour, no TV, whatever. She has to experience that punishment for a period of time. All right. Well, if people are annihilated, then there's no punishment because they don't experience it. But people will say, oh no, the punishment is the annihilation. Well, it doesn't make any sense. That's saying punishment is actually nothingness, which is no punishment. Because to not exist is to not have any punishment. There's no punishment if you're not existing. It's not there. So they're saying punishment is actually the realization of not punishment. They don't realize the illogic that they're offering, and they don't understand the biblical model that punishment is experienced. And since our sins are against God, it's infinite. Then the consequence is an infinite punishment. OK? All right? Yeah. OK. Thank you very much. OK. OK. You're welcome. God bless. All right, so along those lines, I might as well just use it as a segue to get into soul sleep and some other things related to annihilationism. Because, oh, we've got a break coming up, so I'll do that afterwards, but I'll start it now. A lot of annihilationists, it's gaining popularity, unfortunately. People don't like the idea of eternal conscious torment, ECT. They say that it's more loving for God to annihilate them. Well, what they're doing is they're subjecting God to their personal preferences and saying, this is what God will be because I decided because that's too terrible. That's too bad. And so therefore God will do what I think is right. And so they uphold annihilationism and some other things. So there's a break. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to get back. I'll talk about soul sleep. as it relates to annihilationism and why it's problematic. All right, please stay tuned. And if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. tick-tock opening up a live room at 9 p.m. ish Eastern Time and you can just go there and look for Matt slick and tick-tock and what happens people come in and then we just have conversations one at a time I don't like dog piling So that's just an FYI. And also let's get back into the issue of annihilationism and soul sleep. Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul goes to sleep. So there's no consciousness. And then in some views of this attached with annihilationism, such a person is then revived, his consciousness is judged, and then is annihilated. where the soul that's asleep is awakened and then judged to damnation. There's others who hold the soul to sleep for salvation, where the soul goes into a state of dormancy, there's no really activity, there's nothing, and then they're revived, God revives them for judgment, and then they go to heaven. So there's different views, different churches that hold these different views and things like this. What's the problem with this? Here's one of the things I say to people. is put Jesus there and see. So if Jesus, when he died on the cross, when he died on the cross, if his physical human nature went to sleep, then I ask people, were the attributes of his humanity being ascribed to his personhood during that time? Because if the answer is no, then he's not Jesus. If the answer is yes, then it's not soul sleep. Because the attribution of self-awareness and awareness of others and omniscience are part and parcel to the nature of God. But in humanity, self-awareness, cognition. These are necessary elements of humanity and these have to be conveyed or communicated to the single person of Christ. And soul sleep would wreck that and thereby deny the reality of Christ's continued existence. It would be a continuity issue. This is a serious thing. It's a serious thing. So I've raised that argument with a lot of people and then they say I'm stupid and then they go away. So I'm not usually convinced by that kind of argument. So here's something else that happened interestingly last night since I got no callers I'll just continue to kind of ramble and teach at the same time. So last night I was having, as I told you, I was having this discussion with oneness people and one of the ways to refute them is to, there's many ways, but one of the ways is to go to John 6, 37-40. And John 6, 37-40, and talk with the person of Christ. Now I did this last night to a guy. And I'm going to tell you how it went. It was very interesting. Because in oneness theology, Jesus is the Father. He's not separate from the Father, He is the Father. But in Luke 22, 42, when Jesus says, not my will, but your will be done, speaking to the Father, it's actually the physical talking to the spiritual. Okay, that's what it is. So that's called Nestorianism, and I'll get into that. So I went to John 6, 37, and I said, let me ask you questions here. I said to this guy, finally, he's arrogant. But I said, can you tell me which nature is speaking? All that the Father gives me. So the Father, who's that? That's Jesus in the pre-existence, that's the Spirit? He goes, yes. Gives me, who's that? That's the flesh nature speaking. So who's speaking here? All that the Father gives me, that's the human nature speaking, will come to me. That's the divine nature speaking, or the human nature? Will it come to me? Who's the me? Is it the human nature or is it the divine nature? And that's speaking, okay? And he went back and forth. And I said, the one who comes to me, that's the human nature or the divine nature? He goes, that's the divine. Now I will certainly will not cast out, that's a divine I. For I have come down from heaven. That's the divine, that's the spirit, right? He says, yes. Not to do my own will. Well, that's the flesh will. Now it's the flesh speaking. So literally it's like this. I have come down from heaven, that's the Spirit speaking, and then it switches to the flesh speaking, not to do my own will, but to the will of Him who sent me. The will of Him who sent me, that's the flesh speaking. So this is the will of Him who sent me, that's the flesh speaking, the human nature speaking, that of all that He's given me, Now who's that? Because is it the divine that gave to the divine? Or is it the divine giving to the human nature? He says, I will raise it up. Well, who's that? Who's going to do the resurrection? Is it the human nature or the divine nature? And you can see how this becomes very problematic when we start looking at this saying, well, which one is speaking? Which nature is speaking? Now why is this so problematic? Well, for one, it's ludicrous. What you have is alternating persons speaking. Now, when I said this to a guy, this guy last night, he said, no, it's not persons. It's one person. Jesus is one person with two natures. And I said, you can understand something. When we define personhood, we define personhood by the ability of, we recognize the characteristics of personhood, saying you and yours and me and mine, having a will, can think, can speak. So what you're doing is you're saying that there are two persons. He says, no, there's just one person. I said, you're not listening to me. You can say there's one person who Jesus is, but what you have is each one of these natures behaving as a person because they alternate speaking and talking about themselves. By definition, that's two persons. And this guy said, no, it's not. It's just one person. And he couldn't get it because his mind is warped by the foolishness of one's Pentecostalism. Then I asked this question. I said, which nature died on the cross? And he said, well, the human nature. I said, then how is the sacrifice of divine value? A two-minute sermon was thrown at me. And then I said, you're not answering my question. And he said, yes, I did. And he said, you know it, and you're so afraid you can't answer. He was just a jerk. And so I said, look. If only the human nature died, how is the sacrifice of divine value? And his answer finally was, because the father was in him. And my response is, well, did the father die? No. But you see, if you have two persons and one died, it's not the other, the divine nature that died. This is why Nestorianism is so heretical. It's why it's so bad. And I had to tell this guy, I had to say, you don't even know enough to know he don't know enough. He didn't like that. But it was true. He didn't understand the basics of logic. And what I've discovered with discussing this kind of thing with the cult of Oneness Pentecostal is that they can't think critically. And that's because their minds are warped by this. And at one point he was so interrupted that I went, oh man. And somebody jumped in and goes, didn't that just growl like a demon? Oh man, they are so brainwashed. into their lameness that it's like, oh my goodness. Okay, let's get to Kyle from North Carolina. Kyle, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, Lou, how are you? Oh, doing okay, just rambling, talking, annoying people, I'm sure. Just teaching them, all right? So what do you got? I had a question about 1 Peter 2.8. First Peter 2.8, a stone of stumbling, a rock of offense, because to this doom they were appointed. Yes? Did God appoint them to disobey them? No, it doesn't say that he appointed them to disobey. They stumbled because they are disobedient to the word and to this doom the doom of their disobedience, the doom that results from disobedience, they were appointed. God does not force anybody to sin, all right? Okay, so they were destined, I'm just looking at the ESV, they were destined to do, so they were destined to disobey. Am I reading that right? The ESV, let me go over to the ESV and take a look. There's Peter 2.8. And the ESV, the stone of stumbling, the rock of offense, they stumble because they disobey the word. And to this, and they were destined, oh, interesting, as they were destined to do. Whoa. Here, let me look at the Greek. Disobedient to the word, because they were disobedient to the word, they were participial present. They were. okay present active they were the ones being disobedient okay so they were the ones being disobedient to the word in a continuous action because that's participle and to this doom they were also appointed, they were, aorist passive indicative, past tense receiving the action. So, all right, so what I'm seeing is they are disobedient and to this doom they were appointed. The tense changes in the Greek. So it goes from present to aorist and Present tense, obviously, aorist means past tense. There's different forms of past tense. There's perfect, pluperfect, aorist, and stuff in Greek. So they were disobedient to the word, or they are present tense, and to this doom they were appointed. So I don't think the ESV did it properly. I don't think the ESV translated it properly. The King James says even to them which stumbled the word being disobedient where into they were appointed The RSV a rock that will make them fall who interesting a rocket will make them fall Yeah, what does that mean though? Okay, they for they stumble because they disobey the word and they were destined to do so interesting Okay So let's work with this from two ways, okay? They were destined to be disobedient. If that's the case, and there's, having gone through more translations, to which they were also consigned, L-E-B, C-S-B, this would be the word they were also destined for this. Ooh, this is really interesting. You really got me thinking about this. Okay. I've been thinking about this verse for a while. Yeah. Okay. So, we only have a little bit of time. You're going to have to call back tomorrow and we're going to work on this, but let me just say this. God creates everything, or makes everything, even the wicked for the day of evil, Proverbs 16, 4. In Romans 9, 22 and 23, there are those who were made for the purpose of destruction. So there is this case we can make that in the Bible certain people were doomed and appointed to this damnation. Now why is that? And in what sense can we understand that? Because we know that some were appointed to eternal life, Acts 13, 48, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. So they believe because they're appointed to that. And to this doom of the disobedience and the consequence, they were appointed to do that. Well, we can say that this is the case by what's called the ultimate, proximate, and efficient causation. Now, I'm not trying to snow you with all this stuff, but we're out of time. I don't have time to get into it. Call back tomorrow, and we'll go through these things, and I'll explain stuff. Because the answer lies in that kind of thing. culpability of causation. Okay? We just have to do it that way, buddy. So back tomorrow. Thank you very much. You're welcome very much. All right, brother. God bless. That was really a good question and when I looked at the Greek, I was like, ooh, interesting. So now I'm going to do some more study and hopefully I'll call back tomorrow. May the Lord bless you and by his grace, we'll be back on the air tomorrow. I'll not be on this coming Monday. Holiday? and I will be on Lord willing tomorrow night. May the Lord bless you. And look for me on TikTok tonight around 9 p.m. Eastern time. God bless.