Welcome to our inaugural show at Whitfield Radio. Whitfield Radio is a ministry of Whitfield College and Theological Seminary, teaching and maintaining the principles of the Reformation. From time to time, I will have others who will be joining me to help host and co-host the show. Dr. Randall Talbot, who is the Academic Dean of Whitfield College, is also our Professor of Practical Theology at Whitfield Theological Seminary, and the Pastors' Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church in Bellevue, Florida, will also be joining us. along with Reverend Richard Glau. He's assistant pastor at Christ Presbyterian Church in Lakeland, Florida. He's a chaplain at the DeSoto State Correctional Institution and assistant professor of exegetical theology at Whitfield Theological Seminary. And also Dr. William Sullivan, our program director and producer, He's an elder at Christ Presbyterian Church in Lakeland, and he assists as academic dean at the Whitfield Theological Seminary and as a staff member for the Whitfield College program. The Whitfield Radio Show was designed in order to propagate the ministry of Reformed Theology among those who have a desire to learn and understand the historic teachings and practices of the Protestant Reformation. We're going to be dealing with a lot of different topics over time. We'll deal with issues within theology, issues within church history. We'll be looking at exegetical theology, issues concerning apologetics and philosophy, biblical counseling, Christian education, church and state issues. We'll be doing interviews with various ministries and current students, as well as former students who have gone off into the ministry. We'll talk to them about their lives, their education, the ministry that God has given to them now, and ask important questions as to how we can be more effective in our work for the kingdom of Jesus Christ. Today's show is entitled Correctional Ministries and Chaplain Services. And when we get back from our break, I will introduce you to our first guest. Parents, are you looking for a college to send your children to in the near future? Hi, I'm Dr. Randall Talbot, the Executive Vice President and Academic Dean of Whitfield College. Let me share with you why I think you should consider Whitfield College. First, Whitfield brings a Christian college education home to you. We are a distant, learning, online institution. Second, Whitfield provides a biblical worldview college education. Third, affordability. Because we are a distance learning institution, we can provide a high academic education that you can afford. The average tuition for most online colleges is $300 or more per credit hour. At Whitfield, we charge $80 per credit hour. Fourth, graduates from Whitfield College are highly educated in the majors that we provide. We have graduates that have entered graduate schools all across the country in various different fields. Institutions like the University of Massachusetts of North Dartmouth, Liberty University Law School, and various seminaries. If you would like further information, you may visit the Whitfield College website at whitfieldcollege.org or you may call the college offices at 863-683-7899. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Today's show correctional ministries and chaplain services we have with us as our guest Reverend Richard Glau who is chaplain at the DeSoto Correctional Institute And as I noted earlier, he's an assistant pastor at Christ Presbyterian Church in Lakeland, Florida. Reverend Glau's background is a bachelor's degree in biblical languages from Grace College and Theological Seminary. He has his Master of Divinity from Whitfield Theological Seminary. And he is currently working on a combined STM and PhD in exegetical and pastoral theology with Whitfield Theological Seminary. Chaplain Glau, we're glad to have you with us today. Thank you very much, Dr. Talbot. It's a pleasure to be here. Let me ask some questions of you so that we can get a kind of an idea and a background of the ministry concerning chaplain services. If you would, Chaplain Glaude, would you kind of give us a brief historical background as it relates to yourself and then, of course, your ministry from the time of college on through the present at the DeSoto Correctional Institute? Sure. Well, I was born and raised in a very strict Roman Catholic home. I had chosen to leave Catholicism while I was in the Navy. I was in the Navy for six years. Looking back on my experience there, it's pretty obvious that there were some very positive influences that forced me to look at my faith from a much more biblical perspective. When I got out of the Navy, it was clear to me that I wanted to continue studying the Bible. I got involved with what was then a Plymouth Brethren school in Newport, Rhode Island, which is where I was discharged from there. I went to Emmaus Bible School, which is now Emmaus Bible College. I was there for only a year and transferred to Grace to complete my studies in biblical languages in Winona Lake, Indiana. Upon graduation, I went into business actually for a number of reasons. And looking back on that now, I can say that that business venture was, while it's certainly in God's providence, I was running from God for a number of reasons. And it really wasn't until around 1996 or 97 that I got serious with the Lord. God has a way of having his way in your life, if you will. And my wife and I both decided that We needed to make some very hard and fast and serious decisions relative to our future and what God had for me in view of my training. All along the way while I was in business I had taught in various Sunday schools and churches we were involved in. We visited a number of churches and got involved in several denominations and it was about 1996 or 1997 that we got just so hungry for truth that we started an earnest exploration, if you will, of various churches and ways to be involved in just seeking what God would have us to do. The decision was made in around 2000, actually. We got involved with a church, a local church. It was a Charismatic Pentecostal church in Sarasota, Florida. And because they had what we needed at the time, we got very involved in it. As a matter of fact, I began teaching in that church and was actually invited and joined that denomination. So we did several years there. I had chosen to leave business. This was a decision that my wife and I made. The day after I had left business, I got on the telephone and called Tallahassee to the head of chaplaincy services simply to ask him what chaplaincy was all about. I had no idea how to begin, but this is something that I had thought about from time to time. It's kind of like one of those nagging things at the back of your mind that God drops into your life. For some reason or another prison chaplaincy, not hospital chaplaincy or anything else, was what God had led me to do to explore. The reception that I got with that phone call was very positive and led me to do volunteer work actually in a state institution here in South Florida and also a local jail. After about 18 months I was invited to just apply for chaplaincy services and it wasn't long after that then that I took my first chaplaincy at an institution, a state institution in South Florida, Everglades, as a matter of fact. We moved from Sarasota then to Key Largo to take up that particular position. From there, I was there a year. I was offered the opportunity to come back to the institution where I'm at now, which is more in central South Florida. It's in Arcadia. And I've been here as senior chaplain for the last six years. All right. So you've been serving at the DeSoto Correctional Institute then for the last eight years. What's the nature of the prison environment itself, like working with various inmates? How much freedom, for example, do the inmates have to practice their faith? Well, of course, as you can imagine, this is an incredibly controlled environment. And we are, for the most part, every institution is ruled in broad brushstrokes what we can do what we can't do by a federal law the uh... what was the acronym for relupa uh... if you will the religious land use uh... for incarcerated persons act and uh... also the uh... religious freedom restoration act here in florida what that basically says is is that you cannot what you do for one group what you can't do for another and it's not just insofar as it relates to religious groups or denominations. You cannot show favor to a religious group over a non-religious group as well. In other words, from the standpoint of discrimination, it's very, very controlled. Having said that, at least here in the state of Florida, they go out of their way by policy and principle to give as much freedom as possible to all inmates to practice and to pursue, from an educational standpoint as well, whatever their individual religious belief and practice is. It all has to be consistent, however, and this is very important, with the security and good order of the institution. Religious beliefs simply do not justify in any way, shape, or form violation of department or institutional rules and regulations. Having said that, then they have, and it doesn't make any difference what denomination that we're talking about in the state of Florida, they recognize 108 to be exact different faith preference groups from your standard mainline denominations all the way to Wiccans and Voodoo faith, Theosophy, Taoism, Scientology, Satanism, you name it. It's in the state of Florida and in most cases, most of these groups are represented in most every institution in the state. So we have to provide. It's my obligation to help a man as a chaplain discover his faith perhaps for the first time or develop his faith preference, whatever that may be. And that includes providing credentialed ministers to conduct services of the particular faith needs that we have at that institution, and, of course, access to literature and educational materials as well. Let me ask you this question. To what extent, then, can a chaplain share their personal faith, doctrine, and practice with among the various inmates? If the question is, can an individual chaplain share his faith, Yes. With particular inmates? Yes. The answer is, from a personal standpoint, this is one of the most exciting things about being a chaplain. I don't have to look for opportunities to share my faith because I'm in an institution that houses 1,900 inmates. It's like being a senior pastor of a large church. What that means is that there is counseling opportunities, one after the other, And in particular for grief counseling, I'll counsel within probably 10 to 12, 15 inmates per month regarding a death in the family, whether it was mom or dad or grandma. And all of these opportunities to counsel one-on-one, man-to-man, respecting with all the diplomacy that one can muster and respect for their particular faith. It provides all kinds of opportunities to share my faith simply because in most cases, if you can believe this, I am asked questions. Well, chaplain, what about this? What do you believe about this? Chaplain, how would you handle this? Chaplain, what are your thoughts on this? So it's not about proselytizing from my standpoint. It's simply about being honest and answering and speaking truth as I know it in the reform space to the moment. That is one of the most exciting things about being a chaplain in an institution that I can speak to. Let me ask you this question because it's kind of leading up to it. What kind of access do the inmates have to various religious literature and instruction of their faith? In other words, is that something that has to be brought into the institution? Does the institution itself provide that? Does that interact somewhere with your chaplaincy itself? Yeah, no, the institution, we are prohibited. I can't spend a dime for any materials on anything Christian or otherwise. And so all of the literature, now we have, for example, a library of about 5,000 volumes covering most every faith group, reference works as well as other types of literature, all of it donated. All of the equipment, the musical equipment, the speakers, the sound equipment for our chapel is all donated. The benches, the pews for the chapel is donated. So from that standpoint, everything has to be donated. And it's the job of the chaplain to go out into the community, establish relationships with various faith groups who may have an interest in providing these kinds of things, and in many cases, It's providing resources is quite simply a marketing job. That's part of it. I have a list of about 220 volunteers that I rely on heavily. About 80 to 85 of them come in to the institution every single month. because I have three institutions that I need to take care of scheduling services for all these different faith groups. As an example, today I was looking and asking and trying to find resources for teaching tapes on a particular faith group because I am shy in this particular area. This can be a problem for some chaplains. We live in a pluralistic society. Our culture is pluralistic, and certainly that's true in prison. I can't voice my opinion as to what I think is true or not unless I'm asked. But short of that, I have to provide equally for all faith groups. But as I say, it does not in any way, shape, or form override the multiple opportunities that I have to share my faith. Also, along those same lines, I have absolute freedom to conduct as many or as few services as I choose to, teach as many or as few classes, and pick the classes that I want to teach. That's another great joy that I have, the freedom to do that within the institution. Reverend Glau, let me ask you this. Having listened to what you've just said, these various faith groups, when they come to the correctional institution itself, how hard is it to accommodate their activities in performing religious ceremonies and practices as relative to the rules and regulations. In other words, what should be the expectations of groups, if they come, faith-based groups, who come to share their faith, whatever that may be? What should they expect or not expect to be able to do and perform as far as ceremonial services are concerned? Well, what we will try to do, in terms of observing religious ceremonies, Again, everything has to be consistent with the reasonable constraints of correctional practice. However, the Department of Corrections recognizes that the significance of religious ceremony is terribly important. Much the same as on the outside, there are some orthodox practitioners in every faith group, and there are some that are not. As an example, this is a perfect example of what's coming up. We have Passover coming up for the Jewish inmates. We have about 30 active Jewish inmates at the Soto Correctional Institution. Passover is coming up and we will make provision for them to, which is highly unusual because nothing goes on in prison after dark, except as an example for now, the observance of Passover. Tallahassee has deemed it necessary to comply, to allow the Jewish inmates to have their Passover Seder between 8 and 10 o'clock at night so they can light their candles when they need to. There will be two Seders, the 29th and the 30th, as will be practiced on the outside in any synagogue, you know, across the United States, across the world for that matter. So when it comes to religious ceremony, we will allow maximum freedom as long as that it is consistent with the good order and security of the institution and as long as it complies with local, as well, local security timeframes to accomplish these things. If it can't be done at a particular time, we'll make provision to have it done. That's for the Jewish. For example, Buddhism. Most people aren't aware of this. We have a contingency. We have a handful of Buddhists. But because there's only seven practicing Buddhists at DCI, it doesn't in any way, shape, or form detract from their 16 days, their holy days. They have 16 in the course of the year. They have several fast days. We make provision for them to fast so that they'll receive a bag lunch after dark so they can break their fast and whatnot. So for the mainstream religious denominations as well as those that are not quite so mainstream, for example, the Hebrew Israelites, we will allow Islam. We have a big Islamic contingency as well as DCI. And we will observe the month of Ramadan. They only have three holidays, Ramadan, which is the whole month, and then they have an Id al-Fitr and an Id al-Adha, only three holidays, but we do everything we can to accommodate them and perform a ceremony for them and get volunteers from the outside to come in who are practitioners of a particular faith group so that they can structure a ceremony as closely as possible to what will be happening on the outside if they were in a synagogue or mosque or church, you know, in the free world. Rev. Glau, we're going to take just a break here for a moment, and we'll be right back. Thank you. Are you looking for a denomination that continues in the heritage of the historic confessing church? The Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly maintains the Westminster Confession of Faith of 1647 together with the larger and shorter catechisms as our subordinate standards. We further recognize the value of other Reformed creedal standards and their acceptable use among our churches in teaching the theology of the Reformation. We're also unique as a denomination in that we embrace the doctrine of biblical inerrancy, maintain a literal 24-hour, six-consecutive-day creationist view of Genesis, reject the modern-day Erastian teaching of church incorporation, Practice male head of household voting. Encourage family-integrated church practices. Require an educated eldership. adhere to a two-office view of the Church, Southern Presbyterian, while maintaining a three-fold function of the eldership, preaching, teaching and governing, and promote and support the training of our children in Christian educational institutions, especially in the homeschooling method. Come and visit the RPCGA website at rpcga.com or rpcga.us and review the standards, the Book of Church Order, and other position papers. A listing of churches and ministers is also available. Our website again is located at rpcga.com or rpcga.us. Consider becoming a part of the historic Confessing Church, teaching and maintaining the Westminster Standards. All right, we're back. Reverend Glau, let me ask you this question. We're dealing with various faith groups and accommodating their religious services and practices. Some of these various groups come in and they have sacrificial practices in their religion. We would see that more probably as cultic. today from a Christian perspective, but even your mainline groups may want to come in and perform like a communion service where it might involve bread and wine or grape juice. How does the state deal with that in a correctional institution? Okay, well, if you remember, I said that everything has to be done in good order and it can't violate department policy. Some of these things, for example, Santerias, of course, you know, they believe in blood sacrifices. Well, there are no blood sacrifices within an institution. There are some other kinds of things that would be strictly prohibited. There are a number of things that are prohibited, even that are not as outrageous as that. For example, in the state of Florida, Native American Indians are not allowed to grow their hair in spite of the fact that that's part of their religious belief. So there's a lot of things that simply because they're in prison they can't be done. We have to keep in mind that this is a prison environment. There are rules and regulations. This is a Boy Scout camp. So there are some things. that uh... that within the guidelines of the uh... religious land use incarcerated persons act which i mentioned earlier and uh... you know the religious freedom act that uh... the uh... the court have granted that there are some things that simply can't go on for the safety of not just staff but other inmates uh... on the other hand from the standpoint of communion uh... uh... communion under the bread and wine. For example, for Catholic services, the wine is necessary. The wine can come in. Only three ounces of wine is allowed in. As a matter of fact, this afternoon there was a Catholic mass and the priest came in. Three ounces of wine came in. The wine is not distributed to inmates. It is only consumed by clergy, in this case the priest. In most cases for Christian services, of course, it's grape juice and wafers or bread or unleavened wafers of some sort. Again, ceremony is important. It's recognized. We take it as far as we can, preserving the security of the institution and, again, being fair to all. If we do it for one, it has to be done. for another group, and this is all in keeping, of course, with the policy of non-discrimination for all that are involved. When people come into prisons, you hear a lot about jailhouse religion. You hear a lot about inmates having an interest while they're in prison, being able to try to get time to be free to go pursue other things besides the normal duties and requirements that they have as prisoners. What are the expectations when any kind of a faith group or a minister comes? What should he expect out of inmates? What will they be looking for him to do? Things that are both probably within the parameters of allowance and then things that he shouldn't be doing. Well, when I get a phone call from a church group that wants to come in or a pastor to preach or a Bible teacher, my question to them is always the same. What is it that you want to do and how do you do it? The fact of the matter is that they shouldn't have any other expectations coming into prison than they would if they were standing up in the pulpit of their local church. And the reason I say that is because the But the fact is that those inmates are in uniform and they are dressed in blue. Just like in a regular church, there are those that are committed adherents. There are those that are serious about their faith. There are those that are just there to pass the time of day. So I give no expectations and I tell someone coming in to have no expectations. They are there to do God's bidding for all practical purposes. So when someone talks to me about jailhouse religion and can you believe the inmates, can you believe their commitment, in most cases, and I've had this conversation with several pastors, I will ask them if they can believe the confessions of faith that are made from the members of their church. How well do they know the members of their church? I probably know the members of my church, if you will, in the institution far and away better than most pastors do. I spend the majority of my day and many evenings with them as well. Jailhouse religion, I have to laugh at that because I say this. All you need to do is read the book of Philemon. You want jailhouse religion, there it is. Here was Onesimus. Paul sent Onesimus back who stole something from Philemon. He came to prison, was saved in prison under Paul's ministry, and Paul sends him back to the community. And by the way, that is also a pattern for proper reconciliation and re-entry of inmates back to the community. So I absolutely believe in jailhouse religion. There's as many false professions of faith as there are on the outside, but just the same, when someone truly is transformed by the Spirit of God. His life is changed and his life bears fruit and you know it. That is terribly exciting. The interesting thing about working with the incarcerated is they don't have a Mercedes-Benz waiting in the parking lot for them. They don't have to worry about their suit or if clothes is better or worse than the person sitting next to them. They don't have any other appointments to go to. And when you have a chapel full of a hundred men who are there with no pretense, all dressed the same for one reason, and that's to worship God in a Christian service, there is nothing more exciting or more edifying or more uplifting to me than to hear these men sing and praise and worship God. jailhouse religion is it is a real yeah are there is many uh... false professions of faith in con men in inside the fences of outside yet but i gotta believe that the percentages are probably far in a way less than on the outside Let me digress from that, just to ask from this perspective, how far would a chaplain then be involved also with an inmate's family? I mean, is there, when you talk about doing counseling and ministering to individuals or even faith-based groups, you're having people who are coming in and out of prison who would have more contact outside than the prisoner himself would have. How's that dealt with and how do you approach that? A chaplain, first of all, his ministry is not just to the inmate, but it is to his family if given the opportunity. The reason is this. There are lots of opportunities to talk to family members. If an inmate has been incarcerated for 8 years, 10 years, 15 years, there is a good likelihood that his children have grown without him, that his wife has moved on. But there's an occasional opportunity where that hasn't happened, and there needs to be reconciliation. The chaplain is the bridge, is the go-between, between the inmate who feels absolutely alienated from his family, who is probably angered by that alienation as well, and who is anticipating getting out. There is nothing but conflict unless that alienation and anger is dealt with. and the chaplain serves as a marriage counselor. I personally have had the privilege of bringing families together who haven't talked to each other for years. Children haven't talked to their dad in years. Wives haven't talked to their husbands in years. I've brought families together in anticipation of a man being released. Unless this is done, we all believe that the family unit is the basic unit structure of society. I'm going to tell you something. Working in prisons, you learn very quickly that a nuclear family simply doesn't exist. If you can find a nuclear family with a mom and a dad and kids, that's an anomaly. Most of these men have been raised by a grandma or their aunt or a cousin twice removed. For starters, they've gotten married, they've had kids, something went wrong and now they wind up in prison, but dealing with the family and counseling with the family and trying to mend the family. I personally believe that a ministry of reconciliation has been given to every born-again believer and reconciliation between moms and dads, between dads and children. This is the essence of the the counseling, the basics of what we do with family counseling. There is a whole lot of anger that needs to be in some way, shape or form vented. Everybody is a victim. The wife feels victimized. The children feel victimized. Believe it or not, the inmate who is in prison feels victimized for whatever the reasons are. There is a whole lot of counseling that can be done with a view towards reconciling and bringing families together. And the single biggest opportunity to do that is when there is, I hate to say this, but when there is an illness or death in the family. That's when people are the most sensitive and the doors perhaps can be opened toward the conversation which will bring a visit which will start the path of reconciliation for families. So working with the families is a big part of this. Also, working with families to find employment and housing. Oftentimes, for example, working with sex offenders, they can't go back to where they came from. They're prohibited by law from going back to their family. There may be still minor children at home. So we have to work with communities and in some cases churches to find housing and employment and also further therapy or counseling on the outside. All of this is part of a chaplain's job. As I say, I use that term loosely. This is not a job. To be an effective chaplain, this is a definite calling and it is a ministry. If you're looking for a job, you don't want to be a chaplain. Because I've done it for seven years now, eight years, I can say this much, that there is no more rewarding ministry that I've been involved in to date. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Chaplain Richard Glau. Thank you. Are you considering seminary education? Let Whitfield Theological Seminary provide your educational needs. Whitfield offers master and doctoral degree programs through distance education in ministry, theological studies, biblical counseling, and Christian education. You can complete your studies for the ministry or other church vocations in the privacy of your home in conjunction with your local church. For students who have never been to college, check out the bachelor divinity degree program. Whitfield also offers lay study programs. Go to www.whitfield.edu for additional information. Remember, Whitfield offers classical reform theological education. Whitfield Theological Seminary, training a new generation of ministers around the world to disciple the nations in the theology of the Reformation. And we're back with the chaplain Richard Glau from the De Soto Correctional Institute Chaplain Glau, you said something in your last statement about the outside support work and networking of people on the outside, especially in the transition of prisoners from inside to outside. How important is that for churches to see an opportunity to get involved in that transitional period to be able to help minister and reach out to these families and help them get established and become a part of their local church this is singularly uh... one of the most important facets of this simply for this reason you know the united states has two million over two million people incarcerated ninety five percent of those folks that are incarcerated currently are going to be released at some point and they're going to be released into a neighborhood near you the problem is And about 650,000 people are released from incarceration across the United States every year. Less than 50 percent, less than 50 percent, stay out of trouble for three years. The statistics here in Florida, we have in three years, we have a 35 to 40 percent recidivism rate, which is considerably higher than the national average. And the reason is There are multiple reasons for that. But we will release 32,000 a year here in Florida. We will take in 35,000. So we're net negative 3,000. And of that, close to 50% are at least two-time offenders. So recidivism is a huge, huge problem. And at the cost of $120 million a year to build prisons, And we've got a prison just about in every county in the state of Florida. And it costs about $20,000 a year to keep an inmate. And that cost is escalating as the population that is incarcerated escalates. You can see it is a burden on society, on communities in general. So recidivism. Once a man leaves prison, we don't want him coming back. And the key to that is providing as many transition services and provide as much support as can be provided. I'm involved in a re-entry program at DCI. For example, we just started this week an incarcerated fathers program so that men can reestablish and get reconnected with their children. Part of the program is to write letters to their children and start building that bridge again, anticipating that they're going to be getting out in 15 to 18 months. And in conjunction with that program, I have a clinically trained psychologist who comes in and does family reconciliation therapy, which is simply group therapy for men to vent their fears, what concerns them most, how to deal with the anxiety of going back home. That's part of it. That's the personal aspect. The other aspect of course is plugging them into their church. I spend a great deal of time, if men have come from a community and were connected to a church at one point in time, I'll call that church. I'll talk to the pastor. I'll say, you know, Jim is coming home. Is there anything? that you can provide or are willing to provide in the way of support services. Physically, certainly that's a big part because he's going to come out with nothing, not have a job. Maybe there's somebody in the church that can provide, that has small business, landscaping services, anything along those lines that can provide some support and bridge the gap until he gets his feet on the ground. This is a big, big problem, and the shame of it is that i have had churches uh... just outright denied tell me i've had a pastor tell me we don't want him coming back here he won't fit in uh... and uh... this is heartbreaking you know to have a pastor of a church tell me that they don't want this inmate yes the uh... the fact of the matter is that there uh... men in many instances they had were in the wrong place at the wrong time i'm not saying that they're not guilty but except for the grace of God, there go I. And regardless of that, God is building his church within the fences. And these are men with eternal souls who will wind up in heaven or hell. The facts remain the same, though they wear a uniform and have been imprisoned for a period of time. need the same kind of support structures as anyone does who has been away, you know, from society for a while. The prisoner clearly needs, when he gets out in transition, he needs that spiritual and educational component to help him to think through, to counsel him in how to act and to respond from biblical perspectives. But what physically should the churches be looking at as meeting the needs? You said possibility of jobs, but what other things can they be involved in and transitions? Are they allowed to get involved in opening halfway houses, those kind of things? Exactly how far can they get involved? The halfway house concept is a good one. I have... What's interesting is that there are an awful lot of churches and groups, you know, who are willing to give money perhaps, but it's time that is needed, time spent for an inmate to be released and for a church family to embrace an inmate and his family and to work alongside of them. I work with several groups who, for example, will come and pick up an inmate uh... if they've had a drug problem pick up the inmate at the gate when he is released able to his first uh... a a meeting uh... his first in a meeting i've taken to a halfway house and uh... right now the deal c uh... support and provide certain stipend for halfway houses that are approved but for churches to be involved in this i'd believe is the key because what ever happened inside the fences A man can get saved in prison, he can have the best discipleship program in prison, but if it's not there when he gets out, it's all going to be for naught. There has to be a safety net underneath. Would you say that relates then to the aspect of in prison, his life is governed? I mean, his decisions are minimal. His life is governed moment by moment by people who are overseeing him, rules and regulations, and so his life is very well structured within the institution. And there's a sense of security knowing what that context for life is. But when he gets out, he doesn't have a job. He doesn't have someone to help him. He's not getting the transitional support that he needs. And as a result, unlike the man who's out on his own, who's not in prison, who has a life and he has built structure into his life in order to be successful, he's really caught in a vacuum at that point. And as a result, that makes the transition, you know, almost from the beginning, it creates the opportunity for failure. Absolutely. The answer to that, again, is for the Church of Jesus Christ to recognize that the responsibility for their members or someone coming back to their community, why is it that the Church should not reach out to this particular person. Yes, he's stigmatized. Yes, he's, you know, was incarcerated. Yes, he was a convicted felon. But the fact of the matter is we were all sinners before God. You know, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And as a result of that, if we're going to discriminate against someone who got convicted civilly in society for his crime, we really need to be careful. Because, as I said earlier, except for the grace of God, there go I. An interesting thing about this is that, you know, when I talk to churches and pastors and church groups, for some reason or another, you know, Matthew 25, 36, you know, Jesus himself said, you visited me in prison. You know, Hebrews 13, 3, remember those that are in prison. We've already talked about Philemon. When they get out of prison, Paul's example of sending Onesimus back to the community, the church community, that he betrayed for all practical purposes. The church needs to find the biblical pattern of what this reconciliation process is and get involved, because short of that, the recidivism rate that I talked about earlier is not going to be stopped. you will be having neighbors who came out of prison worse than when they went in prison. And so from a practical point of view, I'm just saying that we don't need to be preaching a social gospel, but we do need to be willing to extend our hand to those who are getting out of prison and give them not a handout, but a hand up. That's all we're trying to do. And the need is So great. It is so great. Very good. Listen, we're going to take another break and then we'll be right back. Hi, this is Phil Nason from the website Theology Today Apologetic Ministries. It's a website from a Reform point of view that deals with expressions of Christianity that aren't Reformed. Movements such as the Word of Faith and the Signs and Wonders Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Roman Catholicism, as well as Hyperpreterism. With over 400 articles, the Theology Today Apologetic Ministries podcast, as well as videos, I trust that you'll find everything that you need to make a sound decision whether or not to follow these movements. Thanks for stopping by, and now back to True Believer with Dr. Kenneth Talbot on the Whitfield Radio Network. Let me change direction here just for a moment. When one goes into the correctional institution, there's a role that's played. You have the chaplain, you have also the correctional staff, and you have security, and all that has to have a synchronistic interaction that works because, I mean, it is a controlled environment. Can you speak to that relationship? And for those who are coming to volunteer, what they ought to expect and how they need to respond? Sure. Well, the security staff absolutely has the priority in terms of who sets the rules. We go into work and we're confident that we're going to leave work at the end of the day based on the security staff doing their job. As a result of that, we respect, more than respect, the security staff There is no time for questioning. There is no time for arguing. We just do what they say. Now, the fact of the matter is that the security staff has a love-hate relationship with most volunteers that come in. And the reason for that is because contraband comes into the prison either through volunteers, visitors, or other staff members. There's only three kinds of people that come into an institution. But from the standpoint of security, there is a chain of command, much the same as in the military, and we have to respect them and we do what they say. In the event of crisis and catastrophes, emergencies, fights, different kinds of things that can happen inside prison walls, We, getting out of that prison, our life is dependent upon the security staff doing their job. And as a result of that, we defer to them in every instance. If there's ever a situation where a volunteer who comes in thinks that they have been mistreated or not spoken to with the respect that they felt they should have, my advice, and I do this in training sessions all the time, is to simply do what the security staff tells you to do and then take up the issue with me after the fact and we'll deal with it appropriately. Security is paramount. It is number one and I will not let any volunteer get in the way or any program or any church group or anybody get in the way of my relationship with security. I have a great relationship with security which is the reason why I can get so many things done, so many groups come in. And they know that I'm not going to push the envelope when it comes to rules and regulations. And as a result of that, they reciprocate and give me all the support I need to get the programs done that I bring in. This brings me to one aspect of something I think is very important for people who are going to volunteer, especially considering whether it's going to do ministry as a volunteer chaplain or coming in with a group, faith-based group, gangs. Could you talk just for a few moments about the establishment of gangs within a prison system. We see a lot of things on TV about gangs in prison and their power and influence. How actually does that work and interact and relate to the religious aspects of what goes on in a chaplaincy and how do you have to interact with that? Sure. Well, gangs are a part of prison life. Here in Florida, we have approximately 15 different gangs operating. from the well-known to the lesser known, from the Latin Kings, the Gangster Disciples, the White Supremacist Gangs, Aryan Brotherhood, Aryan Nation. And the reason that they are so active, many times there are gang members that get incarcerated who were part of these gangs on the outside, and they're just establishing territory within the confines of the prison. But oftentimes there are men who come into prison who uh... need to belong there is a there is a need to belong for either protection or self-preservation and that is a big motivating force you can uh... by protection if you happen to have a lot of money or you can join up with the gang uh... who for whatever reason uh... you find attractive and uh... you know there's some sort of affinity there but uh... gangs are a big part of prison life And to the extent that as a minister, someone who is called to minister within prison walls, you have to deal with this. The fact of the matter is that belonging to a gang meets a need psychologically and emotionally that if truth be told and the gospel presented in all its veracity, and properly presented, God sets these men free as well. And I've had the privilege of seeing heads of gangs at DeSoto CI and at Everglades come to the Lord and do what in gang terminology is called, lay their crown down and have been truly saved and life transformed And proof of that is the fact that we've had to put him in protective custody, lest the other gang members take their life for betraying the gang. So gangs, while it's a fact of life, you can't be afraid of them. You understand the psychology and the dynamic that goes on. And from my standpoint, it's just about always speaking truth. and letting the chips fall where they may. God uses his word in a remarkable way. When you think there is no hope, all of a sudden you see a light bulb go on in someone's head, and there is nothing more satisfying than seeing them embrace a truth that will truly set them free. So, gangs, yes, we have to deal with them. You can't be afraid of it. Just understand that it's another tool of the devil to keep men enslaved, to keep them in bondage, to keep them tied up and tangled up, and keep them suppressed. It's the job of the chaplain to set them free. Chaplain Glau, could you give us some aspect of what you're doing currently as far as the training and teaching of men in the DeSoto Correctional Institution? Well I have the thrill of teaching classes. As I said earlier I have the freedom to teach what I want, when I want and as a result of that I have currently three Westminster Confession of Faith classes going. We are just graduating two of those classes. As a matter of fact one of them is a larger catechism class. I'm graduating a Greek class that was 14 months long, was beginning New Testament Greek class, and starting a Greek II class, which is an exegesis class, and I just started yesterday a Hebrew I class. So from the standpoint of discipleship and training, the freedom that is allowed for someone who It's called to prison ministry, the capacity of a chaplain to do what you see as important, to teach what you see as important. It is incredibly exciting and motivating. I'm going to say something else about that. There have been several of these men, especially in my Greek class, who came to me and said, Chaplain, I didn't know that I could learn. You see, they had to learn. English grammar before we could teach them Greek grammar. But men, they get institutionalized after a certain number of years, and they forget the fact that they can learn. And they turn, they get a convict mentality. And it's part of the whole ministry of the chaplaincy, you know, to break through that barrier, to get them out of convict thinking. to get them into Christian thinking. And we do that by teaching the Word and trusting God that He's going to anoint the preaching and teaching of His Word, that He's going to anoint that truth, that that truth is going to be driven into the hearts of His elect, and they're going to have their eyes opened, their ears opened, and they're going to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and their life will be transformed. I have had that privilege. I have seen it. And it gives me goosebumps to even be sitting here talking about it now. So, freedom to teach what's important and watch God use it. And several of these men in these classes are going to be getting out. They want to continue their education and go into the ministry. And if in eternity I can look back and God gives me the privilege of having some small hand in that, praise the Lord. What do you envision for the future at the DeSoto Correctional Institution, as far as training classes? Yeah, sure. Well, what I would like to do, in view of the fact that we're on track with these Westminster classes and we're teaching biblical languages, which is of my interest, solid theology, I would like to expand and offer more classes, more teaching along that vein, and structure it so that perhaps uh... in conjunction even with whitfield uh... degrees it can be offered uh... at least attract can be established for men who uh... will be getting out they can begin their studies within of the walls of dci and after they get out they can continue with whitfield for example because uh... it is uh... by correspondence uh... and so it's about getting men started along sound theological foundation that can be continued once they go through the fences. So that's the goal, a structured program. We've begun with the basics, with the Westminster Confession of Faith. We'll hopefully be expanding into other areas of theology and apologetics as we go on, but in time that's the So what you're saying is you've taught Greek 1, you're starting Greek 2, and if I understand correctly, you're starting Hebrew 1. We began our first Hebrew class yesterday with 15 men. Excellent. Excellent. And with high expectation, not complaining. I have incredibly high expectations for these men. And part of that, I let them know. You know, they're used to not having expectations laid on them because they're convicts. They come to my classes. They have work to do. They have to do the work that's assigned to get into the next class. I tell them if you don't do the work, if you don't hand me the work, don't bother coming to class. I have to put in time and effort. You have to put in time and effort. It is amazing to me when you have expectations on men. In most cases, they're going to respond. This is another problem with being incarcerated. There are no expectations. There's nothing expected of them, and so they have no goals. They have no vision. Part of the job of the chaplaincy, and my job in particular with these classes, is to give them a vision. It's to motivate them, to show them that they can learn. to show them that they can get this stuff, to show them that they don't have to remain a convict in muddled convict thinking, but they can aspire to be all that God wants them to be through knowing the truth. Amen. One of the things that Chaplain Glau and I have been discussing is setting up a track for chaplaincy training at Whitfield Theological Seminary, and hopefully in the future we'll have something to be able to offer along that line. Last thing, Chaplain Glau, if a person wants to get involved, whether it's with you or a chaplaincy across the country, what exactly ought they to—how would they start that process of making an approach to get involved in ministry in correctional institutions? Yeah, the first step is to find out where your local institution is, if it's a state institution, if it's a state prison, or a county jail. Now, jails have nothing to do with the state institutions. The rules are entirely different. They have nothing to do with one another, and sometimes the requirements to get into one are different than to get into the other. But having said that, it all starts with a phone call to the current chaplain. That's where you start and you simply state, I'm interested in becoming a volunteer. There is not an institution, a correctional institution in the United States that doesn't want more volunteers. There is a need for volunteers. As I said earlier, I'm responsible for 1,900 inmates. I run about 3,000 inmates through my chapel every month for all the programs that we do and it's impossible for me to do it by myself. While I coordinate and manage and organize, I have four volunteer chaplains that I depend on to get things done as well, on top of the other 220 volunteers who come in from time to time with various church groups and whatnot to conduct services, Bible studies, mentoring, all of these kinds of things for all the different faith groups. So there isn't an institute, know this, that if someone's interested in prison ministry, my guess would be that a phone call to the chaplain, you will be met with open arms and enthusiasm, and probably more enthusiasm than you would be used to, because they need the help. However, it's not for everybody. And this is truly a calling, I believe, much the same as anything else is. My enthusiasm, I don't try to hide my enthusiasm because the rewards and the benefits of prison ministry to me far outweigh any of the concerns that you may have with one or two visits inside. But as I started out you make a phone call to a local chaplain, you set up a date. I'm sure that they would be more than happy to have you come in at some time that's convenient, take you around and explain some things. And you'll know very early on, as soon as you walk through the razor wire and the gate closes behind you, if this is for you or not. I think that speaks very loudly. You'll know early on whether it's for you. Make the phone call to your local institution. Talk to the chaplain. Tell him what you're interested in doing. Be specific. If it's a Bible study, if it's to teach a class, if it's to mentor, if it's to counsel. And then finally, ask him what his deeds are. because I have a lot of people telling me what they want to do. I don't have those needs. If someone asks me, Chaplain, what do you need? I'm willing to provide it. Now you've got an open door. Chaplain Glau, I will assume too that anyone coming in to volunteer will not only be introduced around the facility, but more than likely some kind of a preliminary training program as to the do's and don'ts of what they ought to be expected and how they're going to act and things that they'll do will all be provided for them. So there will be some type of at least a minimal training to help them in that introduction to the environment, correct? Yeah, absolutely. As a matter of fact, anybody that wants to come in to the institution as a volunteer one time or even on a regular basis, you have to have an NCIC background check. You can't be a convicted felon yourself, although in some cases there are policy and procedures whereby if you were a convicted felon in the past, you can come in with a certain amount of time having passed and there has been no other infractions. civilly. But then, of course, at DCI, I will conduct orientation classes, training classes, where we go through all the rules and regulations, the policy and procedure. Because as a volunteer, you are responsible to know the rules just as if you were an employee of the institution. So in most cases, the training is thorough. The questions are answered. fears are allayed, myths are dispelled and we get down to the nuts and bolts of it. The fact of the matter is that when I conduct these training classes I try to discourage as much as I can by being as honest as I can and by getting people's reactions. If people are afraid, and I hate to say this but often times people want to come into prison not for the inmates' sake, so that they can say they're involved in prison ministry and go back to their church and in some way, shape, or form expand the church's ministry. There really isn't a heart for the men. You have to have a heart for the men. Therefore, I'm brutally honest in my training sessions. I try to ferret out those that I don't think are really adequate mentally or emotionally. And the other thing is that you have to understand that you're not coming in to do anything apart from your particular service, whatever it is. And you can't be in there proselytizing and all of these kinds of things. We cover all of the do's and don'ts, the ifs, ands, and buts in an orientation session. So you're not coming in cold by any stretch of the imagination. And also, you would never be left alone. You would be either coming in with a group or with me. You would be supervised under security or the chaplaincy staff at all times. Chaplain Glau, if someone wanted to make contact with you, how would they do that? They could contact the Soto Correctional Institution. We're in the phone book and all they have to do is call the main number in Arcadia, Florida and ask for the chaplain. I'm the only one there. The phone will ring at my desk and I'll be more than happy to explain and go over all of these things if anybody is interested in prison ministry or even if they are not interested in prison ministry but want more information as to what goes on and how it goes on for their church or church group. Also, I am available and I do a fair amount of this. I go to churches and explain prison ministry and talk about the possibilities. In some cases people get interested and they want to get involved and there are any number of ways to do it. So all they need to do is call the Soto Correctional Institution in Arcadia, Florida, ask for the chaplain, and I'll be happy to pick up the phone. Chaplain Glau, we want to thank you for being with us. Let me encourage those who have considered possibility of going in and being involved in some form or another to really search out your heart in this matter. There is a great need and a wonderful opportunity to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ within these institutions to men who truly have needs, who have really found themselves at the bottom end of their life and experience. Thank you for being with us, Chaplain Glau. Thank you, Dr. Talbot, for giving me the opportunity to share. Lord bless, and thank you for being with us today on Whitfield Radio. You've been listening to Whitfield Radio. Whitfield Radio is a division of Whitfield College and Theological Seminary. Music is provided by our friend, Dr. Phil Keagy, and we encourage you to visit his website at philkeagy.com. P-H-I-L-K-E-A-G-G-Y dot com. This is Dr. Bill Sullivan saying thank you for joining us and check out our website for the next scheduled show. Have a blessed day. I just don't know where, where to begin When earthly kings surrender to this world of sin To off the wall, to off the top Heaven on earth, please watch their way This is how we survive and where we need to be When your river of tears runs into an ocean of heartbreak He'll be your moon when your sun goes down Fire for you, advice is all that's on your crown When your music has died and silence is the sound Stand on every word you say You're true believers, made alive in Christ So if you need to call a friend He's there for you right until the very end True believers Stand on every word you say True believers Made alive in Christ today This is how we survive And where we mean to stay I believe in Christ today.