Welcome to the Covenant Podcast. The Covenant Podcast exists to equip listeners with theological content from a 1689 Baptist perspective. We are on the Man of God Network brought to you by Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. We thank you for tuning into this conversation with Pastor Jim Sebastio on the digital public square for Reformed Baptists. Throughout this conversation, we were having internet connection problems. So there were a few moments where Pastor Jim cut in and out of the live stream and our recording, so we hope that isn't too distracting to you. I tried to edit it in a few ways, but I hope that this conversation on the digital public square with Pastor Jim Sevastio We'll be helpful to you, especially as he gives some advice and wisdom about how we can make use of this medium in our day to make known the gospel of Christ and produce edifying content that is useful to listeners in this day. Thank you for listening today. God bless. Welcome to The Covenant Podcast. The Covenant Podcast exists to equip listeners with theological content from a 1689 Baptist perspective. We are on the Man of God Network brought to you by Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. And for the first time in several months, probably a few years now, we have the great privilege to welcome back Pastor Jim Sevastio to The Covenant Podcast. Welcome back to the podcast, Pastor Jim. Thanks, Austin. Good to see you and good to see you doing. Yes, thank you for your willingness to join us. For our listeners who are tuning into this conversation, you see that the title of this episode is The Virtual Public Square for Reformed Baptists. But before we jump right into that conversation, I mentioned it has been a decent period of time since the last time that you've been on, Pastor Jim. So would you be willing to give our listeners just an update about your current season of life and ministry? Yeah, uh, I don't know. I have a whole lot to share. Uh, it's been, I think probably two years or, uh, three years. Uh, so, uh, added, uh, a daughter-in-law and, uh, a grandson and, uh, another grand and daughters and, uh, one grandson. I've been doing a fair bit of traveling and most recently traveling out to Sea-Tac with you, Austin, to participate in the installation of Dewey there as a full-time preaching elder at Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Sea-Tac. Yeah. Pastor Jim. It is so great to have you back on the program. Of course, I was not on the Covenant podcast as a co-host when you were previously interviewed, but by God's grace, I've been able to enjoy a great relationship with you and Austin for several years now, even predating my time on this program. I'm so grateful you're able to be a part of that installation service, and I was so grateful for the time that we had together just a couple of weeks ago now with both of you. And as Pastor Jim will know, our listeners may be intrigued by this, this particular conversation, it's really coming out of a conversation that Pastor Jim and I had while we were hiking a trail out here in the Pacific Northwest called Little Si. And we were just talking about how much the public square has shifted to virtual. It's now going away from so much in-person marketplace dialogue to now a real social media virtual context to have conversations about ideas, about worldview, and things of those matters. So as we really think about the virtual public square, and as we think about Reformed Baptists, which all three of us are, and many of our listeners are, Pastor Jim, why do you think it's important for Reformed Baptists to be able to leverage virtual mediums to engage with ideologies, worldviews, current events, and the things that are going on in our day? Yeah, thanks, Dewey. I think there's at least two things that we need to consider in our lives as Reformed Baptists. And one of them is, and you've touched on this briefly, is that we have to understand the day and age in which we live. And I think as Reformed Baptists, sometimes we may have been a bit slow, and I understand that. I've been slow in some of these areas to recognize that there does need to be some accommodating or recognizing of the day and age in which we live. I had understanding of the times. They knew what Israel ought to do, et cetera. You find the reference to David in the book of Acts, that he served God in his generation. And part of our understanding our generation is to understand that today, when people are asking questions, the big questions, is there a God? Is there such a thing as truth? Do I have a soul? How does somebody go to heaven? They're not calling a church. They're not emailing a church. They're typing these questions into Google, TikTok, even, and YouTube. And even I'm finding increasingly the testimonies of young people who are getting converted, very often something like YouTube is playing a part in that. And I think rather than just poo-pooing that or denigrating that, we ought to We ought to recognize that and see that the Lord may well be using these modern means to reach people. And so one of them, as I said, so the first issue is because this is how contemporary, at least in our country, contemporary Americans are searching for answers and And so this leads into the second thing, is that without sounding arrogant, hopefully we have good answers to give to these questions. There's a lot of bad answers out there. There are a lot of people answering the questions, is there a God? What's God like? How can I know God? Do I have a soul? Is there a heaven? Is there a hell? How is somebody made right with God? And they're answering these questions from all kinds of different theological backgrounds, and if we have a confidence that God has given to us a biblical and a historical faith with clear answers to these questions, then if anybody's giving these answers, it ought to be us. It ought to be people like us. That's very helpful to answer our question about why we should consider engaging in the digital virtual public square as Reformed Baptists. And one of the ways in which you have tried to model a commitment to engaging in the virtual public square is through your work with Trench Talk. It's very likely that our listeners are aware of that resource in which you and Brian Croft have produced for quite some time. Perhaps you can speak about how long you guys have been doing that podcast, but would you be willing to share what led you to get involved with that specific medium of virtual ministry and how you've seen the Lord use it over the years? Uh, yeah, sure. And also, and I may even just real quickly go back, you know, further as far as just even the recognition early on, uh, for us to be able to be adapters. And I, I'm, I'm not where I could be, or maybe where we should be in this, but. Early on in the day and age, recognizing when things were going from cassette tapes when our ministry started, to CDs, to MP3, and utilizing the internet, utilizing live stream, utilizing opportunities like Sermon Audio that has an audience far beyond anything that we were able to engender in our own little efforts. And so, you know, that leads into practical shepherding getting started and utilizing the means at first of blogs. That's how practical shepherding got started. And then the space began to open up for many ministries to begin to do podcasts. And I think we're still kind of in that realm where many organizations, ministries are utilizing a podcast to reach an audience and that it's become kind of a convenient way to digest truth, hopefully in a relatively quick and easy manner. And so once practical shepherding, which is a ministry started by a friend of mine named Brian Croft, who pastored for years in Louisville, Kentucky, he started this practical ministry to pastors, dealing with a lot of the issues you don't necessarily deal with in your seminary classes. And having used the blog and books, started very early on in the days of podcasting, and he'd recorded somewhere 10, 15 podcasts before I started in with him. and tried different methods, including being interviewed by somebody asking him a series of questions. And then sometime ago, I can't remember the exact time, I want to say it's somewhere around 2017, somewhere around then, we began to do the podcast together and have recorded together somewhere together in the neighborhood of 245 podcast. Brian has done an additional 20 or so that I've not been a part of, but this has been a means of introducing people to the ministry. It seems from what I am hearing, it's the primary way in which people are being introduced to the ministry. We have 30 or more books associated with the ministry, again, as well as the blogs and conferences and other resource material to help men, particularly men starting out in ministry, but the podcast in which we seek to answer various questions related to a pastor's ministry, soul, family, has been a means that many have been introduced to these truths. I can be the first to say that Practical Shepherding and Trench Talk and the work that you're doing in that ministry, Pastor Jim, it's been a huge blessing to my life. I trust it's been a blessing to many of our listeners' lives as well. In addition to the work that you're doing with Trench Talk, and all of the ways that you are engaging with listeners through the public square that's virtual, it's digital in our day and age. You're also now transitioning to do the same with your local church. Recently, the Reformed Baptist Church of Louisville podcast has launched and To our knowledge, this very well may be the first Reformed Baptist Church podcast that plans to produce material on a recurring basis. It's certainly the first prominent Reformed Baptist Church that at least I'm aware of that has such a ministry. So would you be willing just to share with our listeners a little bit about what led your church to create that podcast and maybe what your long-term vision is for the ministry because it truly is a unique ministry when thinking about how Reformed Baptists are engaging in the virtual public square, or the lack of us engaging in that particular way. Yeah, well, thanks, Dewey. I imagine there are other churches doing this, and I'm sure they're doing it much better than we are. We're just getting started. But this began some months ago and having some discussions with some of the younger men in the church, two of the young men in particular who have some interest in these matters of video, audio. Both have been very helpful in our web design and That's something we're even talking about, trying to improve, regularly trying to update, improve, to have a good presence on our website, because that's, if not the front door, it is the way in which a lot of people are first introduced into your life and ministry. Initially, the question was, do we want to put a series of welcoming videos onto our website, things like just meeting your pastors, a little bit about the history of the church, a little bit about the doctrine of the church. And now that people can actually see what I look like, you'd be interested to know that these guys were hopeful to use our younger, more handsome, far more handsome elder to do video. They were happy to have me do all the video. They thought maybe one of the other guys should be involved. But that being said, when we actually have begun the material, and we've really only just begun, I've been involved in that thus far. But these young men thought that this would be a good way to introduce people to the church, introduce people into what we're about as a church, but as we began to discuss this, recognize that we could have a broader impact, and that is to be able to release these on various platforms. Right now it's YouTube, And it may sound funny to say maybe even that we would break this down into little clips that could be put on something like Instagram or even the dreaded TikTok. But again, the recognition is there are billions of people that access this material. And if you can find a way to say something about the gospel or something about truth or encouraging an immature Christian to greater maturity, And these platforms are available to you virtually at no cost at all. And when there is so much out there that's offensive and so much out there that is lacking in good, solid, historical, confessional, and creedal Christianity, to be able to speak to some of these matters in a rather, hopefully, clear and simple and concise way. And part of that by, by saying that, you know, we're looking at making these somewhere between 7 minutes to 14 minutes, somewhere along those lines. Some of them may be even, you know, more brief, 5 minutes long. And we, right now, are doing it in an interview format. One of our young men, who's in his early 30s, just has a series of questions to ask, and I'm seeking the answer. We're just recording at our church building. There's a nice little section of our church building that's somewhat of an open—we call it the living room—places where there's just nice couches and chairs and bookshelves and books for people to look at. It's a place where people at the church can gather and fellowship on the Lord's day or after service or after, before prayer meeting. And so just trying to utilize a relatively simple, but attractive place. And so we're learning, we're learning how to do the recording, learning things about lighting and volume and all of those kinds of matters to make it as appealing as possible, as simple as possible. But it's very simple, nothing fancy at this point, but just trying to answer some simple questions at this point about what is the history of the Reformed Baptist Church? What do we mean by Reformed Baptist? And then the fellow that does the interviewing, a young man named Sam, has asked me a bit about my testimony and coming out of that testimony. because I had something of an abusive background with my father, answering some questions about how the gospel was healing and how the fatherhood of God became a lifeline to me as a young Christian and has continued to be as a pastor. That's excellent, brother. And I hope that the Lord uses the resources that you guys are producing there to affect much good. There is much garbage on the internet and there needs to be more solid resources. And just furthering that comment that there is much garbage on the internet, I think that Several, when they think about some of these online mediums, they do think of a lot of the negative stuff that's associated with being involved in the digital public square, like the online quabbles that there could possibly be or a possible inordinate misuse of our time or focus and energy as pastor ministry, or even the fact that this medium gives the appearance that everyone has an equal voice or an equal opinion on this medium because everyone has access to a smartphone. Everyone who does have access to a smartphone has an opportunity to dialogue. And so there could be a platform where people who shouldn't be teachers are putting themselves in positions of public teaching authority. So I think all of those negative things come to our mind whenever we think about the digital public square. All that said, why would you, I mean, you've talked about some of the positive benefits of being involved in the public digital square as Reformed Baptists. Do you have any more that you can think of and how do you think we can grow in being more positively influential in the digital public square as Reformed Baptists? Yeah, thanks Austin. You know, the things that come to my mind are primarily in regard to these matters of of setting forth positive truth. So in the little epistle of Jude, there's the exhortation that Jude has where he says that, well, not an exhortation so much as an explanation that he was writing, hoping to just speak about their common salvation, but because some people had crept in, unaware people with ministries that were not blatantly or obviously heretical to the common hearer, that is, they had crept in unaware, and he exhorts that he felt the need to write, to contend earnestly for the faith. And And I do think there's a difference between contending positively for the faith and being contentious in areas surrounding the faith. And we have to recognize that contention sells, that the crazier your soundbite is, whatever your take is on the home, husbands, wives, sex, whatever, that you're going to get more clicks and more people are going to follow you. Those who hold to our confession have a reputation right now, largely through Twitter or X, for being contentious and provocateurs. I think there's a way to be provocative. I think there's a way to gain the ear I think there's a way to say things that are simple and clear and compelling and honest and that cut a straight line, that are unashamed to speak about truth, that are unashamed to contend for the truth without being overly contentious or arrogant or dismissive unnecessarily of other brethren and other camps and other ideas. So we're not just trying to beat a Reformed Baptist-only jingoistic drum and or say all knowledge is ours, but to recognize that we do have something very clear and something positive to say. There's a lot of bad news out there. There's a lot of confusion out there. There's a lot of fear out there that, on the one hand, we can take advantage of in a wrong way, and perhaps even sadly, as I think some have done, drawing disciples after themselves. rather than seeking to encourage people in the truth, reminding them again that we have an historic faith, we are part of a church that has existed for 2,000 years in a whole variety of nations and governments and times of prosperity and times of ill and times of war and times of famine and times of plague and times of persecution. And if we can speak positively to a confusing generation where there's a lot of hurt, a lot of fear, a lot of concern about the future, and have something that's encouraging for God's people to recognize, you're not the first one to face this, that we are part of a continuum. We're the baton holders for this generation. But we want to pass it on faithfully to another. I think there's a place for that. And I think that, you know, not just older guys like me, you know, I've been at it for a long time, been pastoring for over 30 years in the same congregation. But younger men who, again, can say something at least to their congregation, and that's our primary goal. Peter says, shepherd the flock that's among you. But if we can also do good to others, I think that if it's in our hand to do that, we should strive to do that. Again, where there's so much out there that's bad, divisive, and confusing, to have something out there that's clear and simple, truthful, and compelling is needed in our generation. Just to follow up on that, How do you believe, then, that our specific theological heritage can improve in there being just overall involvement in the virtual public square? I mean, I don't think you're calling every Reformed Baptist pastor to sign up for an ex-account or anything like that, that this is a must. No, it's certainly not a must. Right, it's certainly not a must. You know, maybe perhaps there are some who are too involved in this and spending too much time and to the neglect of a congregation that needs you. We have our primary calling, which again is to shepherd the flock of God that's among us and exercise oversight there. We have a people that we need to take care of and that we need to feed and that we need to shepherd. And that can't take a backseat to anything else that we do. This cannot be in any way our primary life. And I think we also have to recognize that many don't have the resources or maybe the skill. I wouldn't be able to do this on my own. It would look pretty bad and sound bad if I just tried to do this with my computer or my iPhone. But having some people with some skill, IT skill and video and audio skill, it's helpful, though, again, we're learning and growing in this. But again, I think that the recognition that we may have something to contribute, and I think to go back, Austin and Dewey, to something I said earlier, hinted at, earlier, I think we need to be able to be willing to consider ways to serve God in our generation, utilizing the means that are at hand. I don't think that we should wear it as a badge of honor that we're Luddites, or that we just use a chisel and hammer and stone to convey our message. I think we hopefully have done, many are trying to do a good job of adapting to the day and age in which we live. Again, whether you consider even the things of streaming, live streaming, whether audio or video is to be utilized for your church, or for those who listen in on your ministry. But thinking about things like having good audio equipment, trying to be clear and concise in how you convey the truth, to get caught up and you know, packaging and, you know, all of those kinds of things that many may think of when they think of trying to convey truth in the modern age. But we are trying to convey truth, and we do have to recognize this is where people are tuning in. This is how a lot of people are getting their information. It's where unbelievers are turning. It's where immature believers are are turning to try to get help, trying to understand better. And again, there's many willing to give them all kinds of things. And if we believe that we have, by God's grace, given our historical and confessional and have some more solid truth to be able to convey, then I think we ought to consider whether or not we have an obligation to do this. Again, maybe not every single pastor in every single church, but there may be some who ought to consider it who have not considered it. Well, I do praise God for those who have taken up the mantle to get engaged in the virtual public square, whether that be social media, whether it be producing quality podcast resources, or even just putting their sermons online. I mean, every week I listen to a handful of podcasts and sermons. It's a huge way the Lord has worked in my life for my own sanctification and allowing me to ask more questions about how to be a better father, a better husband, a better pastor, a better friend. So God is certainly using virtual resources at the individual level. And of course, even broadly speaking, I believe the church as a whole has been blessed as churches and as ministries have found ways to creatively leverage virtual mediums for the edification of God's people. And as we draw this conversation to a close, Pastor Jim, this has been a wonderful discussion. We really appreciate you coming on today. We would be curious to hear from you if there's any specific virtual resources that you would recommend to our listeners, maybe some that you found edifying, or if there are just any final words of encouragement that you'd provide our listeners to. Maybe there's a pastor listening who's thinking about following in RBC Louisville's footsteps with a church podcast, or maybe they listen to Trench Talk, or they're They're wondering how they can maybe implement something like that into their own respective ministries. What final words would you say of advice or encouragement to our listeners who may fall into those categories? I just encourage you to find solid guys and one of the ways to maybe do that even is through Covenant Podcast and the teachers and preachers that they have on here and that they interview and see if and when they have podcasts. So there's a lot again today, there's an amazing variety and amount of Confessional Baptist, London Lyceum, IRBS, they're producing good stuff, Broken Wharf and others that I may not be able to think of off the top of my head, but who I consistently see are having good interviews with good men about good things. And so sample around, find things that you find helpful. Again, I'd be curious to know other that are using these means and perhaps when this is up, some of them, if they feel free and it's okay with you, if they link to what they're doing as well to try to get other eyes and ears on the truths we're trying to convey. Amen. Pastor Jim, thank you so much for joining us again today on the Covenant Podcast. It's been too long since we've had you on the program, but we certainly enjoyed the time with you today, and of course, the time that we had together a couple of weeks ago. So blessings to you and Becky and your church family, and we look forward to getting you back to the Pacific Northwest in the next couple of months. Yeah, great. I'll be out there, Lord willing, at the beginning of September. We'll do another hike, Lord willing, Dewey. Yes, but maybe not Little Cy. It's going to be hot in September. I've got an idea. I think I know where we're going. Okay, very good. Lawson, good to see you, brother. We'll see you, Lord willing, shortly. Good to see you as well, Pastor Jim. Yes, sir. And to our listeners, we want to thank you again for your continued support of The Covenant Podcast. Until next time, we wish you grace and peace. God bless.