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Will please turn in your Bibles
to Jeremiah 23. The book of Jeremiah 23. I'll
begin reading in verse 9. I'm going to read a lot of passages,
especially at the beginning of the message. Because of that, I'm going to
skip down through the passage, and I hope I don't leave you
behind. But please turn to the passages
when I call them out, because I believe the Bible speaks for
itself on the subject that I'm going to preach on tonight. People say, why do you have to
bring the subjects up? Because I believe the Bible.
I don't mean that lightly. I'm practicing what I've preached
for 18 and a half years as a pastor here. I'm practicing what I've
taught the students in our college. Why speak on it? Well, another
reason is our people are being attacked. You know, I spoke to
the leadership of the church, to the deacons and the staff.
I spoke to the college because I knew they'd be going back and
being asked about things. But our people are being attacked.
Why speak on it? Well, another reason I have to
speak on the subject is that Jack Hyle's reply was full of
holes, and I have to say, full of lies. Why speak on it? I'll tell you another reason,
because the hordes are coming out of Hammond, and excuse me,
with buttons that say, I'm 100% for Jack Hyle. And the whole idea is if you're
not 100% for Jack Hiles, you're wrong. That's it. All around the country, I'll
speak on a little later tonight, but missionaries are being turned
down as far as speaking if they're not 100% for Jack Hiles. They're
losing their support if they're not 100% for Jack Hiles. Churches
are being tore up if the pastor isn't 100% for Jack Hiles. And
what's that done is put the local church pastor on the defense.
Either you make Jack Hiles a bishop, either you kowtow to him or you
better defend yourself. You ever think of it that way?
It's been that way for quite a while. Now, I'm not 100% for
Jack Hiles and I want to tell you why tonight. It's not a subject,
it's not something that I wanted to speak on. And I mean that
from the bottom of my heart. I've never prepared a message
that tore me up like preparing this message. It made me sick
at my stomach at times. It kept me from sleeping at times.
But I believe as you read the Bible, whether it be in the Old
Testament or New, God always had some men that would stand
up and say, that is wrong. I've had preacher friends say,
you're going to kill yourself. Very well may. It won't hurt
our church, but it very well may hurt our college. But I've
never been a man that would say, well, let's weigh the damages
and by that choose whether we're going to speak on a subject or
not. I believe God's Word has to be defended. I believe God's
men have to be defended. I believe the independent Baptist
movement has to be defended. Now, there's people that are
much more qualified than I to do it, and some have. But I feel
God wanted me to also. And so again, as we read the
passages, I beg of you, look at what you're reading, because
it'll be pertinent to the subject matter. Keep awake. It's going to be a long message.
Not as long as some we've had in the past, but it's going to
be a long message. Keep awake. and ask God to speak to you.
Let's pray. Our Heavenly Father, Lord, I
ask You to guide me as I speak. Of course, this isn't a normal
sermon, but I so believe it's important, important. Oh, my heart breaks that others
won't stand up. Now, Lord, even as we speak,
I pray this might be an encouragement for others to speak on the subject.
Lord, that we have no mediator between You and us. We have no
bishop. We're independent Baptist churches.
And we hold Your Word high. And we want to go by Your Word,
not by man's word, not by my word or any other man's word.
So Holy Spirit, please, guide my thoughts and my words. And
then, Lord, I pray that many would be taught by this, be convinced
about what's right. I'm convinced that this area,
this subject matter, if it's not dealt with, if preachers
and people don't respond to it in a proper manner, it'll mean
the end of our independent Baptist movement as we know it. So God,
I pray that You'll bless this message and bless people as they
take their stand on this subject across America. In Your name
we pray, Amen. The devil's on a rampage in America. We could speak on many subjects,
but I think when Jim Baker fell and the news media had a holiday,
I cringed. Then when Jimmy Swaggart, the
one that seemed to stand in the church of God, when he fell,
more of us cringed. But we said, well, praise God,
they're not vastus. But we forgot a fellow by the
name of Dave Hiles. Dave Hiles would make Jimmy Swagger
and Jim Baker look like altar boys. Dave Hiles. Having adultery with girls from
the time he was a teenager. having it hidden, covered up,
and being made a youth pastor at 18 years old, and continuing
his adulterous affairs. When it got too hot there at
First Baptist Church of Hammond, he was sent down to Dallas, Texas,
and went on his merry way, committing adultery, having affairs. But God has His way. And there
is a certain briefcase of his full of pictures of nude women
that he'd have affairs with. It was thrown in the garbage,
and as I understand it, the janitor found it, made its way to the
deacon, and Dave Hiles was exposed. Now, I think the very saddest
thing about Dave Hiles is not all the women that he ruined,
even though that was sickening, It's not the babies, even though
that's so sad. But it's the fact that the man
that we call our leader, even though we don't have a denomination,
even though we don't have bishops, the man that was considered the
leader of the independent Baptist movement, hid that sin. Let me take it another step further.
A thing that's sadder than him hiding it is the response of
independent Baptist preachers across America allowing him to
hide it and defending the fact that he hid it. There's something
wrong with a movement that knows that their leader is hiding adulterous,
sickening affairs and says we shouldn't say anything about
it. They want to hide it themselves. They're afraid that they might
be besmudged by it themselves. It's sad. Another famous trio
is the Smith brothers. Out of Hammond, the most famous
of the brothers that would come out of Hammond, the most famous
three brothers in the ministry, I would say, Oh, they were famous. We thought they were doing a
good work in Atlanta and Michigan. Down in Texas. I preached for
one. But it came out that the man
in Atlanta was wife-swapping. I mean, the staff and deacons,
wife-swapping. He finally divorced his wife
and married a deacon's wife and vice versa. They get along good.
It's a family affair. It's sick. The other man Bob Yockey worked
with as his assistant pastor ran off with a woman. The other
man, the man I preached for, used to be the pastor of Longview
Baptist Church, has had so many affairs and so many accusations
that it's a joke. And there's exposés in national
magazines and news stories. Now you say, you ought not to
just listen to the newspapers. That's correct. You're looking
at a guy that doesn't like the news media very much. But it's
sad, it's so sad, that when we have such a disregard for God's
Word that we have all the fodder given to the newspapers that
they ever need. Preachers' wives that are lesbians. And the preachers are still in
the pulpit. A preacher was at a S.W.O.R.D.
conference. I was told about this. I shouldn't say at a S.W.O.R.D.
conference. The S.W.O.R.D. conference was
being held at his church. And he announced to the speakers
of this large conference that when it was over he was going
to take off with a secretary. They finished the conference
because they didn't want to discomfort the people or have any problem
with the schedule, and he just left his wife and took off with
his secretary. That's the norm in the Independent
Baptist Movement today. You hear of this all over the
place. One man was speaking for a famous
preacher, After the meetings, he would go to the hotel, change
his clothes, get himself a nice stogie, get a cab, and off he'd
go to the red light district. The problem was that the head
of the baggage handlers there happened to be a deacon at the
church where he was speaking. And a cabbie came back and said,
you see that guy? He's the raunchiest of the raunchy. He was a special speaker at the
deacon's church. I could stand here and I could
tell you stories like this for hours. I heard Dr. Evans The president of Hiles
Anderson College say, I heard him with my ears say, it's a
shame we have more of our men that we've trained for the ministry
divorced than we do have in the pulpit. That's a sad statement. A very sad statement. Now, you
say, what is my responsibility? You ask me, what should I do
as a pastor of a local church? Should I do what's popular? That
seems to be what most of my friends want to do. Just do what's popular. Treat it as though Xerox would
treat damage control. We are not Xerox. We are not
IBM. We are a local church. We are
a part, we are the Church of Christ, you see. And we don't
go by Xerox's handbook or DuPont's handbook. We go by God's handbook. And God tells us exactly how
to handle things like this. A well-known passage, every pastor
knows it, is Matthew 18, verse 15. The Bible very clearly teaches
us every preacher boy has learned in college how to deal when you
have a problem with a Christian brother. Everybody knows it.
They know the passage. Everybody knows how to turn to
it. Matthew 18, verse 15. Moreover, if thy brother shall
trespass against thee, Go and tell him his fault between thee
and him alone. Everybody knows that. If he shall
hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear
thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth
of two or three witnesses every word may be established. That's
how the Bible says to take care of a problem. Amen? That's the
way we've practiced it in this church. Now, some preachers say,
I don't believe in church discipline. Then you don't believe in the
Bible. That's the way. It's not popular. It's not a
happy time. But we've had to exercise church
discipline on our biggest giver at one time. We had to throw
him out of the church at one time. It's not a happy time,
but it's Bible. And if he shall neglect to hear
them, Tell it unto the church. We've had to do that, haven't
we? But if he neglects to hear the church, what does it say?
Let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Now, as I read the Bible, the
Bible says, here's how to handle this. If the accused person doesn't
want to handle it in the Bible way, then you're through with
them. Now, that doesn't matter whether
he's a newborn babe in Christ or if he's a pastor of the largest
church in the world. The Bible has a method and a
way to handle problems within a church. And if he neglects
to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and
a publican. You say, but you mean even if
he's a pastor? Paul said in 2 Thessalonians
chapter 3, And again, please turn to these passages and read
them. You might want to write them
down and look at them after church tonight. 2 Thessalonians 3, verses
6 and 7. 2 Thessalonians 3, verses 6 and
7. Now, we command you, brethren,
in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves
from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the
tradition which you have received from us." Now, please follow
what I'm saying. I am not out to get anybody.
I'm surely not out to get college students, because we're not going
to gain from this. But what does the Bible say?
The Bible says, now we command you, brethren, in the name of
our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourself from every
brother that walketh disorderly and not after the tradition which
he received of us. What the Bible says is if you
don't go by this Word, get away from it! It's clear? It's very clear. Every brother. Verses 14 and 15. And if any man obey not the word
by this epistle, note that man and have no company with him
that he may be ashamed. You see, there's too much politics
today. That's the problem. We're afraid of the consequences.
The Bible doesn't say hate the man. The Bible says know them
and have no company. I believe with all my heart,
if independent pastors, Baptist pastors had handled this thing
correctly, it wouldn't have gone to the extreme that it's to today.
You count him not as an enemy, but admonishing him as a brother. We don't hate anybody. We don't
want to hurt anybody. But we love God. We love the
Bible. Now notice here in this passage
that the Apostle Paul used himself as an example. And I guess I
would say that if Paul can use himself as an example, if Paul
says he has to live by this, why not Roger Vogelin? You see? Why not Mike Edwards? Why not
Jack Hiles? You see? Turn with me to 1 Timothy
chapter 3. Here we find the qualifications
of a pastor. 1 Timothy chapter 3. Now, verse 2 talks about that
he should be blameless. Again, this is elementary. This again is something that's
taught in the freshman class of Bible college. that if you're
going to be a pastor, you're blameless, which means you don't
have a handle. A person cannot point to you
and say you're a liar. A person cannot point to you
and say you're an adulterer. It doesn't mean perfect, but
you have no handle. When a person has a handle, he's
disqualified from the ministry. When you can point a finger and
say he's an adulterer, he's disqualified. He's a liar. He's disqualified.
It doesn't mean if you have a lie, you understand? Every preacher,
every Bible student had this taught to them. Then down in
verses 4 and 5, here's the qualification that
says, "...one that ruleth well his own house, having his children
in subjection with all gravity. For if a man know not how to
rule his own home, how shall he take care of the church of
God?" Common sense, isn't it? If you can't take care of a house
of 5 or 10 people, how are you going to take care of a church
of 500 or 1,000? Common sense, isn't it? You see,
if we believe the Bible, the Bible says, train up a child
in a way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart
from it. Amen? That's what the Bible says. If
you believe the Bible, there's a way to train your child up.
If you do it the Bible way, he'll turn out right. It's common sense then that if
a pastor knows his Bible and follows the Bible, his family
will grow upright. Well, people don't hardly believe
that anymore. It's a sermon that was preached
across the country 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, especially 50, 100 years
ago. It's a sermon that was preached
always. You train a child upright, he will not depart from it. But
today we want to make excuses. But if we believe the Bible,
That pastor, if he's going to continue to pastor, is going
to have a family, not perfect, but a family that doesn't have
a handle. A family that's right with God. But what do you do when you think
a pastor is in serious sin? 1 Timothy 5.1 says, and this is quoted quite
a bit in the day and age we live in. Rebuke not an elder, and
of course here an elder means a pastor, as we think of a pastor,
an overseer, pastor of a church. Rebuke not an elder, but entreat
him as a father, and the younger men as brethren. That pastor is to be protected
against gossip. And I want to say You ought not
to be looking for trouble with any pastor. You ought not to
be picking his life away. So many times the preacher has
to preach on the family, the preacher has to preach on soul
winning, the preacher preaches on how we ought to be, and the
people, rather than following the pastor, they're picking at
him, thinking if they can pick him apart, then they don't have
to follow him. That's the devil. We shouldn't
be picking at any pastor in America, any evangelist, any missionary, The Bible says don't rebuke them. Go down to verse 17. And I'm skipping down only for
time's sake. Let the elder that rule well
be counted worthy of double honor, especially they that labor in
the word and doctrine. For the Scripture saith, Thou
shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn, and the
laborer is worthy of his reward." Now look at verse 19, "...against
the elder received not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."
This is a pastoral epistle. This is written to a pastor. This is telling us how to handle
a pastor that falls into sin. Now, we're told that he should
be protected. But if there is a serious sin,
and as you read the Bible, there are three or four serious areas
that a pastor ought to be called upon. One would be adultery and
immorality. One would be false doctrine. One would be his home not being
right. Those areas are very clearly set forth in the Bible. And the
Bible says if there's a serious problem that comes up, don't
look for the problem, don't pick for it. But if that problem comes
up, you bring it up before two or
three witnesses. Now, look at verse 20. Them that sin, if they're
guilty, them that sin rebuke before all that others also may
fear. That is a Bible principle. It's a Bible principle that Baptists
do not follow. The Bible says that if they are
guilty of sin, it ought not to be hid. As young preachers, we started
this church. I remember saying to Sharon that the older leaders were teaching
their children to be adulterers because they were running around
the country covering the sin of adultery in the pulpit and
putting people that were guilty of adultery, and you can't show
me one place in the Bible, you can't show me one place in God's
Word that says a man that's guilty of adultery should still be in
the pulpit. The Bible says, restore them, yes, but not restore them
to the pulpit. Love them, yes. Weep with them, yes. Help them,
yes. Do all that you can for them, yes. But the Bible never
says to restore them to the pulpit. But all my ministry, I've seen
the leadership of the fundamental movement going around the country
trying to cover up deep sin, sin of adultery and try to put
them back in the pulpit. And I remember saying to my wife
more than once, you know, they're teaching their kids to grow up
and commit adultery because they're being taught that it's okay.
They're being taught that they'll get by with it. They're being
taught that it'll be covered up. And we're reaping that philosophy
today. That anti-Bible philosophy. Then that sin rebuked before
all that others also may fear." You see, a pastor has a special
protection against gossip, and he needs it. But I'll tell you
what, he also has a special accountability, and we need that too. When you
cover up the sin of a pastor, I've heard one time after another,
A preacher in Ohio was guilty of adultery. Man, the deacons
followed him and took pictures and everything else. They called
him before the board, and of course he resigned. But they
made a mistake. They didn't rebuke him before
off. He came running back a while later and attacked the deacons
and tore the church up. It happens all the time. All
the time. There's a well-known songwriter
and singer. He used to travel the circuit.
He was a child sexual abuser. And he went from church to church,
but pastors kept on hiding it. I talked to one pastor, the last
pastor I know where he was being hid, and he caught the problem. He was messing around with kids
in the church, and they hid it and sent him across town to another.
That guy came back and was stealing this other pastor's people and
continuing to mess around with the kids over there. You're sinning
against others if you don't rebuke me for all. I'm not saying every
little sin. I'm not saying if you're late
for work. I'm not saying if a kid cheats
on a test. But I'm talking about pastors.
I'm talking about adultery. I'm talking about incest. I'm
talking about this type of a thing. What the Bible talks about. There's
always been a teaching among Bible believers. That if a man's
guilty of adultery, if a man's guilty of false doctrines, if
a man's guilty of having the wrong family, his wife, especially
a lesbian like we hear today, he's disqualified himself. He's
disqualified himself. That it always has been until
the last 10 or 15 years. Nathan said to David, thou didst
it secretly. But I will do this thing before
all of Israel. Look at verse 21. I charge thee before God and
the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that thou observe
these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing
by partiality. Then preacher after preacher
come in to me and say, how can you do this? Because the Bible
orders us to do it. Not by partiality, you understand. Not preferring one person above
another. Isn't it interesting that we
can point our finger at Jimmy Baker? We can laugh at Swagger. Strike out against all the rest.
But when it comes to one of our own, I mean, this is what preachers
are saying. I ask them, well, do you preach against MacArthur?
Oh, yes. Do you hold out and preach against
Billy Graham? Oh, yes. But how can you preach
against Jekyll? How can you not? Who should independent Baptist
hold up more than an independent Baptist? Huh? It's easy to go get the Church
of God people, isn't it? I'm not saying go out and get
them. I'm not talking about a hateful thing. I'm not talking about
that. But I've always been taught God
uses a pure, clean vessel. And today we are being taught
very explicitly that you don't have to be pure and clean. And
I say the Bible teaches you got to be pure and clean. And if
we allow this, these preachers that keep on asking me, why,
why, why? If we allow this, we're going to have dirty preachers
all over America. We're going to be producing them
out of our colleges and out of our seminaries. We're going to
ruin. It's going to be the end. Somebody's
got to wave a red flag. Jack Hiles, of course, has been
accused of immorality, false doctrine, financial misdealings.
But Jack Hiles is a man who's held so high by himself and others
that he's thought of as above biblical practice. Now, that's
a fact. That's the problem today, and
that's cultish. Now, I know people are going to listen to the tape
of this message, and preachers are going to listen to it, and
I say again, it's cultish. Vic Nischick. tried to see Jack
Hiles years ago about an alleged affair with his wife. He tried
to go the biblical route. He tried to do it the way he
was taught in Matthew 18. Jack Hiles would not discuss
it, would not answer his allegations. He took it to the deacons. The
deacons wouldn't give him satisfaction either. Wouldn't really listen. Laugh at him. I'm saying, people say, it's
a local church issue. It's a local church issue, but
we're talking about a pastor who said, I have taken the steering
wheel of fundamentalism. We're talking about a guy who
says, I'm the pastor of 10,000 pastors. I'm talking about the
guy who purposefully has taken the leadership of fundamentalism
who has a pastor school, who has a college, who has more influence
upon independent Baptists than anybody else in America, and
he would not go according to the biblical method. Now, that
alone is wrong. He has proven himself guilty. As you know, about 18 months
ago, somebody said that I was an adulterer. I mean, I screamed
and I yelled and I hired an investigator and hired a lawyer and said,
you're not going to live with saying that type of thing. It's
not true. It's over. You see, anybody that's innocent
will fight and get mad. Now that's the truth, isn't it?
I heard of another preacher friend of mine. Somebody said that she
had his baby out of wedlock. One of the finest men you want
to find. I'm not saying that he can't be guilty, but boy,
I'd never believe he's guilty. And one of the reasons I believe
he's not guilty is he went right to his people, right to the pulpit
and said, I'm not guilty! Guilty man runs and hides. Guilty
man runs and gets lawyers. Understand? I'm not saying you
shouldn't defend yourself with a lawyer, but I'm saying a guilty man tries
to put up a facade. Dr. Godfrey, a man that had been
a loyal staff member for 15 years, tried to approach Dr. Hiles. Now, I want to say something.
At least I read this, that Dr. Godfrey was a man who would literally
put his hands on the bricks on the alley that Dr. Hiles walked
on and prayed for the man. I'm talking about somebody extremely
loyal, blindly loyal. Dr. Godfrey, a man who had given
his life for Dr. House, you see, came to him and
said, I've got a problem. Will you answer this? Will you
at least listen to me? No! We're not talking about somebody
trying to be nasty. We're not talking about somebody
trying to tear him up. We're talking about a beloved follower,
who I say again, put his hands on the bricks and prayed for
him because he walked on those bricks. No. One after another, Ed Nelson,
Mr. Fundamentalist, Mr. Clean, wrote
Dr. Hiles a letter. Didn't even want
his secretary to know about it because he was so shocked at
the allegation, so he wrote it out in longhand, kept the copies
at home. Just ask Dr. Hiles, will you
please answer me? You owe us an answer. Answer
me. No answer. Now, I'm saying from
every angle, people tried to use the biblical route. Dr. Hanford, Greenville, South Carolina. He worked and worked to try and
see him. I understand there was a meeting
set up in Greenville, South Carolina after one of the sessions of
the S.W.O.R.D. conference last summer. That's when Dr. Hiles
all of a sudden lost his mind and had to be walked off the
platform. But Dr. Hanford's from Greenville
and he got up to the hospital room and said, Dr. House, you've
got to answer these allegations. No, I won't. Do you understand
what I'm saying? You can sit here and you can
say, you're wrong, you're wrong. I'm saying he's wrong. I'm saying
there's a Bible way to take care of these things. I'm telling
you, I heard these rumors for years and years and years, and
I wanted to think the best. I didn't say anything to you
people. I wanted to hope for the best. But when a man blatantly
will not throw the Bible away, the only thing I can say is he
must be guilty. Now, Dr. Heil says, if you're
not 100% for me, you're against me. And now poor Ron Williams with
his girl's home calls people up and they say, are you 100%
for Dr. Hiles? And he asks that they
say, no, sorry, no meetings. Now missionaries call up and
say, can we have a meeting? Are you 100%? That is trash. You talk about a local church,
that is trash. I mean, just after the thing
happened, we tried to get meetings in California, and I mean, just
like that, word was spread of where I stood. I hadn't said
a word to anybody, but word was spread, and we were blackballed
in the state of California. That's trash! I called up the
fellow that was blackballing us, and I said, here, why don't
you at least read the article? I won't read the article. I'm
not part of the problem. I'm not part of the solution.
You are too! trash. Every workday since this has
happened, I've had preachers call me up, I mean shook, because
Hiles Anderson students are coming home and jumping up in their
Sunday school classes and their church services, accusing their
pastor of disloyalty because they're not 100% for Jack Hiles. You talk about bishops! You talk
about popes! They're tearing their churches
up. Ones that aren't home, they're calling. Another guy called me
up and he says, I don't know what to do. They're calling from
Hammond, calling, calling, calling my church members, saying I'm
wrong. Hey, listen to me. No preacher has to be 100% for
Jack Hiles. His closest friend isn't 100%
for him. Tearing up churches across America.
And yet, you shouldn't talk about it. Pretend it's not going on. He's too powerful. I had one
man say, you know, I fear for you because if you do what you're
saying you're going to do, He's going to turn on you. Let Him
turn. I'll take God on my side any
day. Now, I'm saying all these men, for years, tried to use
the biblical method and it was refused, and now we're bummed. Because we're standing for what's
right. Any lawyer would understand that. I mean, you just look at
it. We're just doing... He won't go the Bible way, so
what are we supposed to do? We go the Bible way. And it is
the Bible way. Our men, we could have people
give testimony here. Our men that work with first
Baptist men are being told by their men, get out of that church!
He's not for Hiles! What does that have to do with
it? You understand the mentality? Get out of that church because
it's not for Childs. Do you understand the mentality? Catholic Church isn't that blatant. We've got two families gone. College students gone. I talk to their pastors and I
say, you know, do you understand what's happening? Well, I understand,
and I know it's heresy. I may not be told. I know it's
heresy, and I know there's wrong financial dealings, but I don't
think you ought to be acting the way you're acting. How in
the world are we supposed to act? How are we supposed to respond? I'll tell you something, I'm
not only not 100% for Jack Hiles, but I'm not 1% for Jack Hiles. Because of the size and because
of his leadership, I've backed him for years even though I've
had serious reservations for all those years. I've never used
his name and never hinted to use the name until just recently.
But I've always preached, haven't I? You people that have been
here for 18 years, you've heard me preach against this idea that
soul winning covers all sin. That's been being taught for
all those years. I mean, our teenagers would go
up there and come back, and they just blatantly say, you know,
we can do anything, just fill up the bus, just get a bunch
of souls saved. That's not of the Bible. You don't put soul
winning first. You put God's honor first. That's
rudimentary. You put God's honor first. If
you honor God first, you'll be a soul winner. And let me say
that there's no other church but two in America that sees
more souls saved than this church. We're pro soul winning, but soul
winning doesn't cover sin. Some funny doctrine over there,
I've always thought that. I've been being cussed by their
teams for years. You that go out to sporting events,
you've seen it. Not only by their teams, but
by their coaches. Cuss you out. But I always wanted to have a
good relationship. I never wanted anybody to feel
we were jealous. We were flat on our back one
time. I mean flat on our back. When they were building the college
over there. And we gave them $10,000. We didn't have $10,000,
but we gave them $10,000. You say, why? Because I wanted
to support them. You say, I thought you just said
you didn't agree with... I didn't. And that's what I've
tried to teach all the time. You don't have to agree with
everybody to be a friend to the person. You can have questions. But why do I believe the allegations
now, you might ask. 1973. When a Jack Howe secretary, a
lady that was raised in the church, and work directly with Dr. Hiles
came into my office against her will. Her husband was making
her come. Her husband was making her quit
her job. Her husband was making at the church of Hammond. And
as she cried, and against her will, he said, now you tell him.
And she started a sad story. She said, Dr. Hiles is having
an affair with Jenny Nischick. I'd never heard the name Jenny
Nischick. Dr. Hiles now says he's been accused
for five years. I heard it in 1973 by one of his secretaries. Went in and told about how they
were on some kind of a trip on buses or together as a staffer,
I think it was a bus ministry, something like that, and how
they were caught in a motel room. Went in and talked about how
Mr. Nischick was living alone and
Mrs. Hiles, the Hiles and the Nischicks
were living separately. She went into detail. If you
read that story, of Sumner's, she told that story in detail. The flicking lights and all. That's the only family that's
ever joined our church from First Baptist Church of Hammond directly.
They joined the church, and as I recall, they were members for
about 10 years, and I had no reason whatsoever not to believe
her, but I didn't want to believe it. I told myself she must be
mistaken, secretary or no secretary, inside or not. I mean, again,
you have to see the circumstances. She wasn't a gossip. She didn't
want to tell me what she was telling. But I pushed it aside
and I backed Jack Kyle. Not too many years later, I was
preaching for Jim Mastin in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Afterward, we had
a sandwich with Jim Mastin and his assistant pastor. His assistant
pastor had been Dave Heil's best friend as they went to college.
As we ate, he started telling stories about Dave Heil. I mean
in detail, naming names of people that he had committed adultery
with. And since then, I've found it all to be true. One name after
another, he's had an affair here, had an affair here, and how he
was messing with the teenagers, and how there was so much going
on. But he said, Dave Hiles laughed
about it and said, I'll never get caught because I have twice
as much on my father. I'm talking about the 70's I
was told this. Twice as much. And then he told the exact same
story again. About his father and Jenny Nischick. and about how his father would
sit in the window there and see the lights flick on and off,
and how they see their father take off and go over to the mischief
home. Do you understand? Now, you call
me hateful. You know what I did with that
information? Put it back. I said, he must be wrong. I must
say, I started thinking about our teenagers. Remember in the
early days of our church, our teenagers went up there to First
Baptist for school. And let's just say they didn't
come back very spiritual, and let's just say they stayed at
Dave Howe's house. And I remember thinking, wow, if they're so
close friends to Dave Howe's, why do they have the problems
they have? But when Dave Howe's fell, all
that stuff started rushing back. When Dave Hiles fell, I thought
about the guy saying, he did this, and did this, and did this,
and did this, haha, but I'll never get caught. Problem is,
he got pushed to Texas and he didn't have a daddy to cover
for him anymore. When everybody in the country
knew Dave Hiles was guilty, when everybody in the country knew
about the pictures, what a jerk. carried pictures around a briefcase
of him with naked people. What a jerk. I can't say in public, I mean
that guy is a pervert. He's just not an adulterer, I'm
saying a pervert. Everybody in the country knew
he was guilty, Jack Hiles still said he was innocent. That told
me Jack Hiles was a liar. I talked to Jim Vineyard, and
I hope he doesn't mind me using his name. I didn't mean to use
his name. I've tried not to use names.
But I talked to Jim Vineyard for hours. Jim Vineyard said
that Jack Hiles was the biggest liar he'd ever been associated
with. He said that he'd rather tell a lie than tell the truth.
For hours, Jim Vineyard told me of one perversion after another. I got a real straight story from
Bob Yockey, who, as I mentioned, was Tim Smith's assistant pastor
when he ran off. Why was Bob Yockey so far down
in the dumps when he came here? Because he was told, lie or else. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm saying Jack Hiles is a liar.
Now, people don't want to hear that, but Jack Hiles is a liar. Alive. Hey, since then I've been told
about so many things. Not only told, let me say this.
Not only told, but we've seen it. A man here in a church hired
one of the deacons. Now follow this. You say, he's
not responsible for everything. Follow what I'm saying. This
is just a little tip of the iceberg. Hired one of his deacons because
he wanted a good Christian man to work with. The man had worked
for a very short period of time when it was found that he was
messing with the women. Dr. Barron's charged to his house
with a punch his face out. He wasn't home. His wife was
there. Dr. Barron said, Do you know
your husband's a whore monger? She started crying and said,
Oh, not again. He does this every place he goes.
He's always committing adultery with women. Dr. Barron said,
Does Dr. Howes know about it? She said, I go to him all the
time and he does nothing. That's one little example. I've had people tell me, people
say, well this is second hand, it's second hand. There's too
many. There's too many. This would be upheld in any court
of law. A man that worked at the mission
told me about how the director of the mission was having an
affair with a whore. And it was brought to Dr. Hiles'
attention, but Dr. Hiles would do nothing. They
came back again and he still did nothing. Sent him the slips
from the X-rated movies. Would do nothing! Do you understand
what I'm saying? A man that would sit up on the
platform, Do nothing. I'll go into this later on his
response. But Dr. Howell said he's never
had anybody guilty of adultery kept on a staff, and I'll say
he's a liar. He's a liar because I know otherwise. I know. A lot of this isn't second-hand. What I'd call, this is not second-hand
at all. I know a guy whose family was
in this church for 15 years, was caught in the act of adultery. A well-known staff member caught
in the act of adultery. He called me up and told me about
it. Is that secondhand? Called me up and told me about
it. You see, he was upset because they were shipping his girlfriend.
Let me stop and say something too. When you see church members
leave here, it makes me sick to my stomach. People sin, they
get caught in their sin, and they get mad and leave. Did you
hear me? Then they go around saying, they're
this, and they're this, and they're this, and they're this. Come
off of it! Not only that, but I know the
guard that caught him in the act of adultery. You say, what
happened? They shipped the girl and moved
him up? And if I named his name, every pastor in America knows
his name. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm talking about
a perversion. I'm talking about a sex pool.
I'm talking about lies. People say, I'll wait and see
how Dr. Howes responds, and I'll wait.
You know, creatures are just afraid to take a stand. They're
more afraid of Dr. Howes. They're more afraid of
the status quo than they are of God. We can lose all our college
students. We can lose our buildings. If
that's God's will, then that's God's will. A lot of people in
the Bible lost things for standing for God. That's no sign of whether
you're successful or not. Do you want to leave as a member?
Go on. Go play church someplace. If you want to stay, then stay
and let's stand. And let's be the type of church
members we ought to be, and let's fill the gap. Again, the normal preacher, almost
every preacher I know says, we'll just have to wait and see what
happens. We don't have to wait and see. Just what I've told
you, he has no standards for his deacons and staff. The Bible
tells us we're to have standards. I mean, the Bible goes... I'm
not going to read it. You know the Bible has explicit standards. Every pastor, every deacon is
supposed to be the husband of one wife, and that doesn't mean
at a time either. Amen? Understand? This has been a belief
down through the years. You didn't have divorced people
on your staff. You don't have divorced people
teaching. You don't have divorced people preaching. You don't have
divorced people on your deacon board. You don't have it! You
don't have adulterers either. And you don't have people whose
kids are. That's a fact. If he can't take care of your
house, how can he take care of the Church of God? That's what
the Bible teaches. Another thing is, he has no family standards,
and I've already gone into that. Another thing is, it's false
doctrine. Heresy. Another area is, he's a liar.
I was talking to another big leader in fundamentalism, and
I said, he's a liar here, and you know it, and he's a liar
here, and you know it, and he's a liar here, and you know it.
He said, well, you know, I agree, Jack ought not to do that. Nobody will take his stand. Well, I guess what I'm asking is, should
we have a man leading us? who's a liar, who perverts the
Bible, who is teaching young preachers all over America not
to have standards in their church. You see, it's one thing to talk.
It's one thing to yell. It's another thing to produce.
When I think of Dave Hiles, I think of Eli. In Samuel chapter 2,
verse 22, we read, Now, Eli was very old and heard all that his
sons did unto the Israelites and how they lay with the women
that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. I'm going to skip down here.
Wherefore kicked ye at my sacrifice? What he's saying is, I made you
a priest. I don't have time to read the
whole passage. I made you a priest! You have standards and you have
not kept those standards. Why do you kick at my sacrifice
and at my offering which I have commanded in my habitation? And honoreth thy sons above me,
that's it. Honoreth thy sons above me to
make yourselves fat for the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel,
Israel my prophet, It goes on and says, them that honor me
I will honor, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. And we know God killed Eli and
killed his son. And I believe with all my heart
that if you raise up a child and away he should go, when he
is old he'll not depart from it. I believe that. As a pastor and a leader, I wouldn't
point my finger at a guy who stayed in the ministry and his
35-year-old son had gone haywire. But we're not talking about a
35-year-old son going haywire. We're talking about a 15-year-old,
18-year-old, a kid that became the youth pastor being put right
in the position where he shouldn't be. tearing up the lives. You see, it's interesting, and
again, I don't feel free to name names, but all my friends, all
the guys with big churches around here, the guys that know what's
going on, and it doesn't mean you have to have a big church
to know what's going on, but the guys who know what's going
on in this area would stand where I'm standing. You say, why? Because they've run into the
poor mothers whose daughters have been ruined by David Hiles,
that's why. Because they've seen the sin and the debauchery, and
they've seen the lies. They've seen it! It's like an
oozing, pussing sore. Why expose Jack Hiles? Because
he's a compulsive liar. He lied and covered up for days,
for years, and then he teaches false doctrine. If you listen
to Jack Hiles' tapes, you'll hear him over and over again
say, now, this is something new. This is something you probably
never heard before. I want to say again, only cults
do that. You see, I can't give you anything
that the Apostle Paul hasn't given you. In fact, I'll go further
and say, I can't give you anything Spurgeon didn't give you. I mean,
if those guys that walked with God through the centuries, if
they haven't given it, how am I going to give it? Only somebody with false teachings
is going to give you something new. Now, Jack Hiles teaches
the eternal humanity of God. And when he was accused of it,
he said it was a slip of the tongue. Now, I've got the great Dr. Barron at the controls back there
with somebody else. Oh, the great Grantquist. And I want you to listen. This
portion, rather than reading it, I want you to listen to the
slip of the tongue, and I want you to understand, I forgot to
show you, there's two tapes involved here, and I guarantee you, you
want to go down to the bookstore and buy those tapes, you can.
It's not a slip of the tongue, it's an entire message at two
different times, and there's other times when he's taught
the same thing. He believes in eternal humanity of Jesus Christ,
which is heresy, which is Mormon doctrine. What he says is Jesus
Christ was man at the creation of mankind. He was man as he
walked the face of this earth, and he's man now. It's heresy!
Now listen to this. Not really. Human nature. Our
Heavenly Father, tonight, this is the truth. All these people
have never heard before. Some have. But hundreds and several
thousand people in this room have never heard this truth before.
One of that found God was human. Was human. The Lord didn't say he became
human. He said he already was human. Jesus always was the human part
of the Godhead. You see, we equate humanity with
fallen flesh, but that is not true. Jesus has always been,
he was from the beginning, the man-like person of the Carthage. Now don't think that's liberalism. It's not. See, I'm not trying
to pull Jesus down to man. I'm trying to pull man up to
where he ought to be. See, being a man is something
else. It was King David who said to Solomon, when he was telling
Solomon about the fact that Solomon would someday be the king, and
King David said to Solomon, show thyself a man. He wasn't saying
flex your muscles and show them how strong you are. He wasn't
saying pick up your weights and show them how much you can bench
press. He was saying show thyself as a real man like Jesus was
a real man, always was, always will be. I'm saying, what if
the Godhead, human, that Jesus was already man, And always was
man. And always was human. And was
already human. He just became flesh in Bethlehem. By the way, he's still man. Tonight. Folks have the idea that Jesus
was God and he was God. But he was the human part of
God. Look, God made us in his image. That's why we love the group
God loves. Human beings are made to love. So to love is human. We are made to worship God. So to worship is human. Sinning
is not human. Doing wrong is not human. Doing right is human. Because
Jesus was the human of the Godhead. God decided to make some more
human beings. God enjoyed the fellowship with
Jesus, the Son, so much. God decided to make a whole race
of little Jesuses. So He made man in order that
there may be an entire race of people who could all mean to
Him what Jesus meant to Him in eternity. Now, as God made man
in the Garden of Eden, he was human. Hear me now. In the Garden of Eden, when man
awoke of God, fellowship with God, obeyed God, he was human. When man sinned, his spirit died,
he no longer was alive spiritually. He only had a body and soul.
Man, in his own material state, is not human. No, you're not
human. But the earth is human. No, it's
not. Not the earth is human. The earth
is fleshly. I'm only human, I'm not perfect. Oh, to be human is to be perfect. God made us human in order that
we may fellowship with Him in the image of His own dear Son. Somebody's going to leave this
building tonight. and say, well, the house doesn't believe in
the deity of Jesus. Oh, yes, I do. Nobody believes
in the deity of Christ more than I do. The difference in you and
me, brother, is I believe that man is a whole lot higher than
you have ever dreamed that man was supposed to be. And I want
to speak this morning on the subject of only human. There
are so many misconceptions about Christmas. This is not a Christmas
sermon. But there are some misconceptions
about Christmas. One of these, which is held by
most Christian people, not because they choose to not believe the
truth, but because they've never heard the truth. And I'm going
to give you an elaboration this morning of a truth that we have
occasionally visited on Wednesday nights. What I want to say is
this, Jesus did not become human in Bethlehem. Now listen carefully. Jesus did not become human in
Bethlehem. He became flesh in Bethlehem. Jesus always was possessed with
a human nature. Let me say it again. Jesus, the
second listed person in the Godhead, was always possessed with a human
nature. Are you saying that Jesus was
like we are? No, we were made like He was. You said you mean that Jesus
was like us, like Adam. No, Adam was made like Him. You
see, Jesus always was and has a human nature. Now don't you
say I believe that Jesus is not the Son of God. He is the very
God of God's incarnation. But the portion of the Godhead
from eternity was possessed with a nature, lack the nature of
humanity. And there always was a second
person in the Godhead who was humanity and God in the same
personality. Human nature did not begin with
Adam. It existed forever in the eternal
Christ. The Bible says, Jesus Christ,
the same, but yesterday and today and forever. Now then, that means
that whatever He was in 33 years on earth, He was before. Jesus
Christ, He was flesh on earth, but in His personality, In his
nature, he was humanity. He was, he is humanity. He was humanity and he shall
always be humanity. A man can be, and I hate to use
this word but I'm going to use it, a man can be maneuvered.
Why? Because man was made human and
God can be maneuvered. You take, you check sometimes,
read all the prayers of the Old Testament. And you find out how,
I've said this so often, our Bible studies on prayer, but
you find out how that the Old Testament saints, they knew God
so well, they maneuvered with God. Why then, they all started
off, they said, Thou the great God of Jacob, Thou the God of
the creation, Thou the God that made the stars, and the Lord
God in heaven, I think he said, that's me, ha ha ha. And three,
well you know God's that way. Cause if I made stars, that's
the way I'd be. Ah, what blessed fellowship that
the Son and the Father had. And then one day the Father said,
Son, we've enjoyed each other all these millenniums and three-thirty. Son, I am going to make a whole
bunch of people just like you. Because I've enjoyed that. Thank
you. And so God decides to make a
whole race of people like Jesus. And God makes a little Jesus. But the Jesus is next. Now, it's
one thing, it's one thing, that when God made us, He had in mind
our being like Jesus. That's what He had in mind. God had in mind. See, it still comes out, people,
though. It still does that. My mama was the best paper doll
cutter in the whole world, boy. I tell you all, just when she
could cut out sandcloth, paper dolls, and mama's a champion
paper doll cutter. And, uh, she'd take one little
piece of paper and fold it several times and bring out a whole bunch
of little, little, little, little guys holding hands with each
other. Bothered feeling guys holding hands with each other. But, my mama got it. She folded
it. And did you know, that's exactly what God the Father did,
man. God the Father said, I love my son. I love the fellowship
we've had. And God said, I am going to make
a whole race of people like Jesus. So I may have fellowship with
millions and millions of people. And so what happened is this. God made Jesus. I'm sorry, made man in the image
of Jesus. And Jesus was human. And then God made a race, and
that race was human like Jesus was human. And in due time, this
man with type, Jesus, was copied and incorporated as a race. Now
that copy of Jesus' sin, and man fell. Then Christ, who is
what He was forever," get this, I said, Christ, who is what He
was forever, came and brought the pattern from which we remain,
set it aside, and began to copy to show us what we were meant
to be. Now you say, are you having this
Message tonight, because you hate Jack Isles? No. I'll tell you why I couldn't
help but preach this message, and that is, did you hear all
the amens? Amening, that heresy? Well, I
say again, there are thousands of preachers across America amening
heresy. I'll say what I said at the beginning
of the message, and of course, as he was speaking, and we wanted
to give you long portions So you can see it was no split of
the tongue. I hate to do what we have to
do tonight. But if we say we shouldn't do
it, then we're saying Martin Luther shouldn't have done what
he did. And down the line. I'd like for
you to turn in your Bibles to some passages. Matthew 12, 33-37. I'm not going to comment on Dr. Heil's messages and things he
said that much, except through the Scripture. But Matthew wrote
in Matthew 12, 33, "...Either make the tree good,
and his fruit good, or make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt. For the tree is known by his
fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak
good things? For out of the abundance of the
heart the mouth speaketh." You hear that? Out of the abundance
of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure
of the heart bringeth forth good things, and an evil man out of
the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you
that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give
an account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words
thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Why fight corrupt doctrine? 1 Timothy 3-6 says, "...if any
man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even
the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is
according to his goodness, he is proud." And it goes on and
says, "...from such withdraw thyself." Why warn people against
wrong doctrine? 2 Timothy 2.16, "...but shun
profane and vain babbling, for they will increase unto moron
godliness." Do you understand what we're trying to say? If
somebody doesn't stand up, and I'm not trying to say I'm the
only one, But if preachers don't stand up and say it's wrong,
then it's just going to spread and spread and spread. Over in
2 Corinthians 11, verses 2-4 and 13-17, again, I guess I'll
start with verse 3, But I fear, lest by any means the serpent
beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your mind should
be corrupted from the simplicity which is in Christ." This is
a simple gospel. Did that sound simple that you
listened to? I saw your faces kind of squinting up and saying,
I don't understand it. I guess you wouldn't understand
it. If you have a Bible that's founded and grounded in the Word
of God, you wouldn't understand it at all. But the Bible goes
on here and says, "...for if he that preaches another Jesus..."
You see that? As he that cometh preaches another
Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit,
which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have
not accepted, ye might well bear with him. For such are false
apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves to the
apostles of Christ." Huh? Is that Bible? Should we not
apply it to ourselves? What's the Bible given to us
for? Now again, without much comment, I want to read, rather
than having it put on tape because it's kind of garbly and it's
hard for you to hear it, but I want to read just portions
of some of these sermons. And I want to stress something,
they are not taken out of context. You'll be able to tell by the
title of the message that it's not taken out of context. This
message is called, The Helpless God. It was preached May 26,
1985. And he said, this is Dr. Hiles,
but God is also helpless in doing His work without man. You cannot
do God's work without God, and God cannot do His work without
man. Either element left to itself
will fail. Humanity is helpless without
deity, and deity is helpless in the work of redemption without
humanity. That's false. That's wrong. That's anti-Bible.
He goes on and says, that's the reason that in the Trinity there
has always been a God-man. Jesus did not become the God-man
when He came to earth. He's always been a God-man. There
has always been a member of the deity who was the God-man. Not
sinful flesh, but God-man. He goes on. Now listen to this.
And again, you might feel that I'm using the word blasphemous
loosely, but listen to this. If I were God's pastor, I would
remind Him of His need of man in doing His work. I'm your pastor. I remind you of your need of
God. But if I were God's pastor, I
would say, now dear God, this is going to ruin me all over
the nation. I wish it would. I am already ruined all over
this building." Then he says, but I say, now God, remember,
you need man. My Bible says you could raise
servants up from the rocks. Here's another sermon. Thank
you, Adam. It was in the morning that he preached this message.
I got these tapes. I just asked somebody that received
Dr. Howell's tapes every week. I
asked him to send me a couple dozen tapes, and this is what
I got. I mean... I mean... Listen to this. Thank you, Adam. The theme is
thanking Adam for sinning. You got it? Say you're wearing
glasses, yeah. I can't see with them, and I
can't see without them. One of our favorite pastimes
is railing on Adam for getting us into this mess that we've
inherited. "'Twis he," say we, "'described
us of the image of God.'" "'Twis he! who deprived us of the favor
of God. T'was He, Adam, who deprived
us of true righteousness. T'was He, Adam, who deprived
us of holiness and virtue. T'was He, Adam, who has given
us pride, malice, hatred, and evil passions, along with pain,
sickness, a host of unholy tempers." Are you listening? That's what
he says. Now listen to him. God knew that the evil resulting
from the former was not as much as the good resulting from the
latter. God knew that man would gain more than he would lose
because of his sin. Let that sink in. Thank you,
Adam, for bringing sin upon us. Thank you, Adam, for adultery.
Thank you, Adam, for homosexuality. Thank you, Adam, for murder.
Thank you, Adam, for rape. Thank you, Adam. My Bible doesn't
teach that. Next one, I'll just name the
names. Backsliding is a necessary part to spiritual growth. This
one points out that God makes you sin for good. Believe me,
that's what it teaches. God makes you sin for good because
if you continued without sinning, you'd get too prideful. Here's another title, The Bad
Backslider is No Worse Than the Good Backslider. Now, his sermons
make light of sin. Let me just read some areas out
of this sermon called The Bad Backslider is No Worse Than the
Good Backslider. And you think, you think about
what he's saying. You think about the ramifications.
Backsliding does not depend on how much liquor you're drinking.
Your backsliding depends on one thing, Are you actively doing
the thing you were made to do? Now, you may not understand what's
wrong with that, but what he's saying there again is, if you
backslide, the only problem is that you're not soul winning.
Understand? Now, I'll go into it further.
I'm not pulling that out of context. In other words, if you're soul
winning, then go out and backslide. Listen. Listen. Whether the doctor
is sleeping in the next room or is out in the tavern doesn't
matter. He's not doing any good for the patient. You see the
theme? The bad backslider is not measured
by what he does that is wrong, but what he doesn't do that is
right. Do you get the theme? It doesn't matter if you're drunk,
it doesn't matter about adultery, just so you're not soul winning.
The worst thing about reading a Playboy magazine is the fact
that you're not reading this book. Hmm? His sermons continually make
light of sin. The one in deep sin is no further
than the one with a cold heart. Now what he's saying is if you
have a cold heart, go on and go in deep sin. You wonder why
there's so much debauchery? If you have been in a tavern,
now listen, if you have been in a tavern and living like an
animal, God is just as close to you as He is to the one who
didn't pray last night. Now, you can say I'm pulling
it out of context, but what he's saying is, if you didn't pray
last night, go get drunk. God will be just as close to
you. That's not Bible. It's not Bible
at all. October 87, led by the Holy Spirit
to be tempted of the devil. May 88, God's army only uses
wounded soldiers. The idea there is that everybody's
wounded. You know, I remember none of
this is taken out of Sumner's paper, but I remember something
that was said in Sumner's paper about the fact that Dr. Hiles
was talking to some woman that was a girl who had a baby out
of wedlock and said something about, I hope sometime she'll
be a Sunday school teacher. And then he said, oh, you're
taken back by that? Aren't we all that way? Huh? And this sermon here about God's
army only using wounded soldiers lifts up a girl that's pregnant
because now she can help others that get pregnant out of wedlock.
Lifts up a preacher that's ruined his church because now he can
help others that ruin their churches. Now, it's not all 100% false,
but the idea that's woven throughout all these sermons is take a light
view of sin. The Bible says if a man can't
take care of his own home, how can he take care of the Church
of God? And how is a guy better fit to help a guy who's fallen
because he's fallen? Don't tell me that. The Bible
doesn't teach that. I remember listening to a sermon
on weight. And again, the basic idea is
correct. That God lets things come into
your life to make you stronger. Make you stronger. And just like
I weight lift and I work out with dumbbells. And if I just
work out with the same amount all the time, I'll not get stronger.
But if I work out with larger weights, then I'll become stronger.
The truth is there. And he went in to talk about
St. Mrs. Kelly and her illness and being tied to a wheelchair
and how this has made Bob Kelly and his wife stronger. And there's
truth in that. I mean, that's a fact. I believe
that. But Dr. Howes, who doesn't name names
even all the way back then, talked about Wally Beebe and his son
who was a drug addict and burned his house down. You see, sometime
you'll name names So indirectly, you don't look too bad. And he
said that his son going bad like that was a weight and it was
good and it was a sense of God. That's not true. And then he
went on about a preacher friend of his who came to him and said,
Dr. Howells, my daughter had a baby
on a wedlock. My daughter has sinned and I
need to leave the ministry. He said, what should I do? And
Dr. Howells said, What you need to do is just get up Sunday morning
and shave and shower and put the odorant on, put your pants
on, get in the pulpit and preach! A year later, he said, the same
preacher came and said, my second daughter ashamed me and came
down and had a baby out of wedlock. What should I do? Now here's
a man who says nobody's on his staff that's ever committed adultery.
Then why in the world does he preach it? Can you answer that? Why does he say that a preacher
can do it? Why does he tell a guy to just
get up? You should just shave and shower and get up and preach.
Is it just a weight? Is it just a weight? It's not a weight. I can show
you in Dr. Heil's book on how to rear children
when he said, when a pastor's child goes bad, he is not fit
to be in the pulpit and he disqualifies himself from the pulpit. Look
it up. Look it up. The last sermon he preached here,
he was speaking about Dave. Not by name, but everybody that
knew what was going on knew he was speaking about Dave. And
he's talking about his mother crocheting and how he'd sit on
the floor and how ugly it would look. But how his mother then
would pick him up and put him in her lap and how beautiful
it looked. And he went on, this was the end of the sermon, the
sermon he preached all over America. Someday Jesus is going to take
me and God is going to put me in His lap, and all this that
is going on with me will look beautiful. Everybody who knew
what was going on knew what he was talking about, and the idea
was, it's beautiful, all things work together for good. That's
twisting the Scripture. The sermon that I believe illustrates
Dr. Heil's life view of sin the most, though, is a sermon that's
called, How to Increase God's Patience. How to Increase God's
Patience. Now, I'm going to read some lengthy
areas that we've transcribed off that tape. You listen closely
to this. Some people committed the same
sin that David did and didn't get up. God didn't use them again. Now, follow me carefully. You
never heard probably exactly what I'm going to say tonight.
David committed murder and was used again. Some people in the
Bible committed murder and were not used again. David committed
adultery and was used again. Many people in the Bible committed
adultery and were never used again. in the Bible committed the same
sin and were used again. Now, what was the difference?
Why would one man commit adultery and be used again and another
same sin not use the God again? Now, he's going to give us the
formula on how to commit adultery and be used to God. That's exactly
what he's going to do. I'm going to tell you why. God
used Samson where he did not use others who did the same thing
Samson did because of one word, consecration. Now, I think that's
laughable. I told myself that I wasn't going
to comment on this because I don't want to get my comics mixed up
with what he's saying. But if there's anything that
would not describe Samson, it would be consecration. Now, you tell me what Samson's
known for in the Bible. Who did he run with? Come on,
say it. The world, but in particular.
Come on. Women, whores, prostitutes. Now,
I want you to say it real loud. Let's call them whores, if you
don't mind using the word. Real loud, what was his... Let's
use the word adultery. What was Samson's sin? Over and
over and over again, loud. Adultery. Adultery. That's the sin, right? Now, keep
that in mind. Now, he stumbled and fell. But
he always got back up. He went at it wildly. I guess
he did. But he went at it. He went at it willfully, but
he went at it. He went at it often waveringly,
but nevertheless he went at it. Samson always knew that he belonged
to God. Now listen closely. Samson was valuable to God. It's
like God can't get along with some of us. I'll tell you what,
I know God can get along without me. God can get along without
anybody. Samson was valuable to God. Samson
was so dedicated to God that when he made some stupid mistake. Now, what was his sin? Some stupid
mistake. Now, this does make me mad. God said, I need the fella too
much to put him on the shelf. He's doing too much good for
one little bad thing to cause him to forfeit his chance to
serve me. What did he do? One little bad
thing. Now you understand how Dr. Jack
Hiles perverts the Scripture. You understand why we have to
stand up and say, hey! I again was talking to a big
shot. He said, I don't believe in this idea that you go up the
stream to find the fault. I do. You see a muddy stream,
you got a problem up that stream. And when you see adultery and
fornication and sick sin all the way throughout the area over
there, there's a problem. And the problem is that sin is
thought of as being small. Again, some stupid mistake, adultery. Just keep on going. I need him
too much. One little bad thing, adultery. Now, here he really
gets going. He's making a statement. He says,
statement one is, and you've got to listen to this closely,
God's degree of patience with you when you stumble is determined
by how fast you were running. He says it again, God's degree
of patience with you when you stumble is determined by how
fast you were running. Trash. Statement number two, your chance
at a second chance will depend on what you did with your first
chance. He repeats it again. Your chance at a second chance
depends on what you did with your first chance. He goes on.
In our school, we have a system of demerits. But we also have
merits. And God has demerits, and God
has merits. Catholicism. Merits and demerits. You see,
if you want to go have a fling with some woman, you just, I
don't know, I wonder how many souls you have to win. 10 souls? 20 souls? 100 souls? I mean,
you just want to go have a good time? You just say, here's my
100 souls, Lord. I'm going to go have a fling.
I'll be back in a little while. Wow. You wonder why preachers
are falling into adultery all over America? Jack Hiles would
never get up and say, it's okay to commit adultery. Never! He'd
preach against adultery. But in this subtle way, he's
teaching people all over America. And again, if you could have
heard this sermon that I'm reading here was preached in Denver,
Colorado, before a house full of preachers. And if you could
have heard the preacher shout, Amen. Something's wrong. Listen, now you better know what
you better do is take out some stumbling insurance. And stumbling
insurance is this. You better be worth enough to
God where you get enough merits built up so that when you stumble,
the merits will not overbalance the merits. Never taught me that in theology. Never did. You teach that? I'm saying Samson was so dedicated
to God I never saw Samson as being so dedicated. He was a
judge, and God used him, but I never saw him as being so dedicated.
Samson was so dedicated to God that God gave him so many merits,
when some demerits came, he had a bonus of merits left over,
and God used him again. Heresy. God looks down and says, It's
sort of strange, but Gabriel, go check his invitation on Sunday
morning and see how it's going. Check out a soul winner. Check
how hard he works. Check his Bible study. And God
looks down and says, the fellow's doing so much good, I'll overlook
the few blunders he makes. God looks down and says, oh my
soul. And God says, I think I'll kill him. And about that time,
he gets up and preaches a sermon on hell and has 200 people saved. And God says, hold it a minute.
Wait a minute. Let him finish that sermon. Then
he says, you know, folks, you do the same thing. That's the
problem with Jachaus. He equates himself with God too
much. Maybe we would do the same thing, but God wouldn't. As simple
as that. God wouldn't. The God of the
Bible would not. Galatians 1, 6-9, I marvel that
ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace
of Christ to another gospel. I marvel how independent Baptist
preachers can be moved so easily to another gospel and defend
this. The majority of people in America
are defending We are the hate-mongers. We are the heretics. We are the
fringe lunatics. The only thing I can say is they
must have been eaten up by another gospel. Which is not another,
but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel
of Christ. But though we, or an angel from
heaven, that means Jack Hiles, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so we say again, if any man preach any
other gospel unto you that we have received, let him be accursed. Do you mean Jack Hiles? Yeah. You say you hate him? No. I mean
it. I'm not just saying it. My heart
goes out to him. I'm sick about this. Nothing as terrible has
happened in my lifetime. Probably nothing as terrible
has happened in this century. I think we'd have to go way back
to see a better victory by Satan than what Satan has gotten here.
Why expose, you ask? Why? Because the fundamental
movement is being taken by the devil. You see, a lot of people
are leaving. You hear the core campaign or
whatever it's called, the conference? Now, believe me, there's a couple
of my friends that's heading that thing up. But they're leading
fundamentalists into the Southern Baptist camp, into the neo-evangelical
camp. Now, one thing I want to warn
you of, just because he's wrong doesn't mean that the independent
Baptist movement's wrong. Just because he's wrong doesn't
mean Jerry Falwell's right. Understand that. This is the
thing that scares me. Everybody's saying, whoa, we're
going to go to MacArthur. By the thousands, independent
Baptists are going the MacArthur route. They're going to this
core thing because they believe in prayer and the power of the
Holy Spirit. Independent Baptists have always believed in prayer
and the power of the Holy Spirit. Just because Jack Hiles doesn't,
we don't have to leave. I guess maybe that's one of the
main reasons as I prepared this, I prepared this to warn my people. But as I prepared it more and
more, I said, somebody's got to shout and scream and say,
come on back, don't leave the ship. God's still the captain. We don't have to leave. Someone's
got to speak up. Well, people all of a sudden
are saying we're against standards because Jack Hiles preached it
and Dave Hiles went, man, that means standard's bad. No, the
Bible teaches standards. Don't turn your back on fundamentalism.
Again, I say churches are being tore up. Somebody has to stand
up and say, don't tear them up. Don't rip them up. Dr. Jack Hiles has sent a response
to the biblical evangelist's article. He sent two responses,
in fact. First one was four pages. And
if you saw that, it was hilarious. It was written for somebody who
was a follower that wouldn't read the article. And believe
me, thousands of people won't read the article. They have that
idea, I'm not part of the problem, I'm not part of the solution,
I'm not going to read it, don't talk to me. Don't talk to me! Come
on. Well, he sent this out, and it
made it sound like Dr. Sumner was attacking his wife,
and Dr. Sumner was attacking his sister,
and Dr... No. No. And in there, he defends his
family. Now, I understand, again, in here he defends... this is
just one portion of it that shows the mentality. He defends Dave
Hiles. Again, you have to understand
that Dave Hiles has ruined the lives of probably hundreds of
women across America, dozens I know of in this area. Babies,
pictures with nudes, beats up his wife, leaves his children,
goes and shacks up. Did you hear that? Pictures with
nudes, babies, shacked up. I mean, I can't say in public
what he did. Raunchy! Here's his defense. You see, it's the old idea of,
let's just pretend everything's okay. Our son Dave lives in Hammond,
and Mrs. Hiles and I love him very much.
That makes him good. He and his wife and three children
are very dear to us. In fact, I'm interrupting the
dictation of this letter for a few minutes to take Dave out
for a bite to eat. Dave is faithful to the services
of our church, and he and I spend a lot of time talking about spiritual
things. He's my buddy, my son, and I
love the guy. That has nothing to do with the
fact that he's a whoremonger. He says he's living here in Hammond
with his wife and kids, but he doesn't say that's the woman
he shacked up with. Doesn't say his other wife and
kids are elsewhere. Doesn't say that one of their kids is illegitimate.
Now, I'm not saying to pick on every little person, but I'm
saying that's a big issue in America. And that's the way he
answered it. If you think it doesn't didn't happen, then everything's
OK. Just ignore it. It's the big lie. You read the
articles in the paper, you read the articles and listen to the
news about China. China took machine guns and just
machine gunned people down. Some people say to the thousands.
Just indiscriminately shot people, killed people in the crowds,
and thousands and thousands wounded. They took their tanks and ran
over defenseless students and old people. They ran over them,
they put them in reverse and backed over them again and ground
them down, put it in forward and ground them in again, came
with their end loaders, picked them up and dumped them in trucks
and hauled them away. And then got on national TV and
said, we didn't do anything. Now that's exactly what's being
done right here. It's called the big lie. The
big lie. Now, here's a second response. He saw that he needed more of
a response, so he got a second response. And I can only touch
on a couple of the things. One accusation is, that there
was a door between his office and Jenny Nischick's office.
Okay? And... I mean, people have walked
through that door. I mean, people have seen that
door. The door was there. Okay? Do you understand? One very,
very reputable lady who's... I guess maybe I shouldn't go
into it, but whose parents are still there and so forth and
work there. Has said she walked through the
door. Others have seen the door and
draw sketches of the door. The door was there. The door
was there for years. I can't say I saw it, but again,
you know, this all fits in like a puzzle. Here's his answer. There is no access between our
offices. Well, let me say the door was
boarded up a year ago. There is no access between our offices,
and she doesn't even come into my office to ask me a question. You see how he answers it? The
accusation wasn't, is there a door now? But the accusation was,
there was a door. So very easily he says, there's no door now. Fine. Well, believe me, I'd patch
that door up too. Let me read this one a little
bit longer. This is Dr. Hyles again, writing this. Sumner also says that he's aware
of two other college faculty members guilty of adultery. It's
amazing how he states things of fact when one person told
me, a deacon told me, a former deacon told me, I cannot prove
his statement true or false by the way, neither can he, but
I am not aware if it ever had been done. And then in bold print,
If it could be proved that any of our college faculty members
are guilty of adultery, they would be dismissed immediately.
The same is true for any student. It's a lie. Have them call me up. I'll give
them the name of a college teacher, faculty member, administrator
that told me he committed adultery with one of the students, and
he was caught. And the student was shipped and
he was moved up. Dr. Hiles knows of that and knows
of many other ones. What about the deacon that I'm
talking about whose wife said, Oh, not again. He's always doing
that. Yes, I go to Dr. Hiles. He doesn't do anything. What about the director of the
mission, you see? Well, what about this? If he
says that he wouldn't keep it again, I go back and I'm just
trying to reason with you. If a faculty member should not
be in the faculty if they commit adultery, then why does Jack
Hiles go around the country covering up for preachers who are guilty
of adultery? His very lifestyle goes against
what he's saying here. There's nobody in America that
would deny that Jack Hiles goes around the country trying to
get adulterous preachers back in the pulpit. Here's another one. Mr. Sumner says that on Wednesday
night, I made the statement, all men are mental homosexuals.
I did not make that statement. That's an untruth. I do not believe
all men are homosexuals. I want you to understand how
he does things. Maybe he didn't say all men are homosexuals,
but you go get the tapes of pastor school, the pastor school before
last. And he got up and he taught that
men want to be loved and treated by their wife as a man loves
and treats. others, and that it's mental
homosexuality. Now, I wasn't here, but one of
our assistant pastors was there and heard him say that. And by
the dozens, preachers were coming here. They always come here on
the way home. We gain a lot of students. And they're coming
back saying, you wouldn't believe what Dr. Hiles was teaching.
He's teaching that all men are mental homosexuals and everybody
was joking about it. Maybe he is, but I'm not. I've
got a book here. Right in his book, Dr. Jack Hiles,
he talks about different personalities, and he goes into exactly that
idea and says, you may call it mental homosexuality. Now, what
I'm trying to say is he may be able to say, I didn't say it
with exactly those words, but he's a liar. I'm saying that
everything that I know, he's vipnistic, have been accusing
him. Now listen to this. He's been
accusing him of immorality of some sort, of wrong dealing with
his wife for years. Vic Nischick has been a deacon
all that time. Vic Nischick has been the song
leader all that time. And now in defense in this sheet
here, Dr. Heil says that Vic Nischick is
a whoremonger. Now tell me this. Why didn't
he say it before? Why was he deacon? Why was he
a song leader? Some place else he said he was
a homosexual. Usually that doesn't go together
very well. Do you understand what I'm saying?
And I say again, if this were Billy Graham, we'd be going crazy.
If this was a Catholic church, we'd be screaming from the church
top. If this were MacArthur, man, we'd be writing exposes
all over the place and warning people. The Bible tells us... I guess
I didn't hit that one. Turn with me to the book of Acts. The Bible tells me, as a pastor, Chapter 20, verse 28. Talk to
me as a pastor. Take heed, therefore, unto yourselves
and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you
overseers, to feed the church of God which he hath purchased
with his own blood. For I know this, that after my
departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing
the flock, also of your own. You hear that? Also of your own
selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away
disciples after them. Therefore watch and remember
that by the space of three years I cease not to warn everyone
night and day with tears. What's he saying? He's saying
that it's the job of the pastor to watch for people that are
wolves in sheep's clothing that will even come up among themselves.
I'm saying we need to warn about people within our midst even
more than we need to warn about the Catholic Church, even more
than we have to warn about the Methodists, more than we have
to warn against Billy Graham. I'm saying if there's anything
we need to warn against, it's this right here. Now again, preachers
will say, why do you do it? Because the Bible says I need
to do it. However, I'm through, basically.
But we're dealing with mind control. Blind loyalty. We're dealing
with a cultic type situation. One staff member got up in chapel
and preached a whole message. I give myself to Jack Isles.
I give my eyes, I give my mouth, I give my hands. Don't give yourself
to me. Give yourself to God. Jack Hiles brags about how that
if he would call up, and I believe this statement, I believe this
statement, if he were to call up from Michigan and tell his
staff to kill themselves and commit suicide, they'd do it
one after another. I believe that. I believe it. Remind you of anybody? Jack Hiles makes statements,
if I fall, fundamentalism falls. Fundamentalism won't fall unless
God wants it to fall. Let me say something. We will
be attacked. If you think the Post Tribune
was bad, you wait. Dr. Hiles teaches that if I were
to talk about this over a cup of coffee with a preacher friend,
that's worse than adultery. You don't talk about things like
this. You don't talk Pope. But I'll tell you what, this
subject had... I mean, I wrestled over preaching
this thing. I in the flesh didn't want to
preach this thing. But it had to be preached. This
subject had to be addressed. Now, I don't want you to make
this your topic of conversation. That's not what God wants either.
I don't want you to fight with others outside. I didn't give
you this information to fight. I gave you this information so
you knew it happened, so when people come at you, at least
you know, at least you know where you're standing. You ought not
to be happy about this. You might say, oh boy, it ought
to break your heart. I mean that. It ought to break
your heart. You ought to be sad. Nothing.
Nothing. I can't think of anything in
fundamentalism that could be worse than what we're talking
about right here. Don't judge others. Dr. Hudson, for instance, has the
right to make his own decision. I've talked to Dr. Hudson. He
will defend Dr. Hiles. All I can say is, I knew
things and I stood behind Dr. Hiles for years also. Don't you
get on your high horse and knock everybody that doesn't agree
with you. Especially as laymen, you don't have a place for that.
I have pastor friends that disagree with me. They're still my friend. Understand? They're still my
friend. 2 John, verse 8 reads, look to
yourselves. Look to yourselves. That we lose
not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive
a full reward. Verse 9, Whosoever transgresses
and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ hath not God. He that
abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the
Son. If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine,
receive him not into your house. Neither bid him God's speed,
for he that biddeth him God's speed is a partaker of his evil
deeds. One scripture after another,
after another, after another, after another tells us what we
need to do. And tonight, as sad as it is, I believe we did what God wanted
us to do. I don't know what will happen. Like I say, we've lost
two families that have been in this church for 15, 18 years. students out of the college,
in particular preachers' children. And I don't know what will happen, but I know we did what we should
do. And I don't believe in that Pentecostal theory that when
you serve God, everything is happy, happy, happy, happy. We
might suffer some persecution over this thing. All I say is
we better dig in and take the place of those that are gone. I want to ask you something. I've had it about as rough as
I could have it the last couple of months. Not especially just
over this. But I want to ask you something.
Be faithful. When we make announcements about
work night, be faithful. Be faithful to the church services.
Man, you go slipping out because you want to get an early start
to go on vacation. That hurts. It hurts. Be faithful. You know what has
made this church? You know what's made this church? Is that we don't just preach
it, but every person in that choir, every person in that choir
lives a separated life. Every usher. You see? Every Sunday school
teacher. Every assistant Sunday school teacher. Every bus worker. I remember we had an evangelist.
Remember that evangelist that stood over here in this third
and said, I want the workers to come over here? And all the
people just went over there? Do you understand what I'm saying?
We're a working church. And every person, I'm not saying
they're perfect, but every person is required to go soul winning
and we check on it. So that's what's made our church.
When we have an offering deficit, we dig in. When we have a need of building,
we build. And I'm asking you, we can take things from the outside
and believe me, I'm going to catch it. Believe me, I'm going
to catch it. But as I've said, when the Post
Tribune attacked us, as I said when the welfare attacked us,
as I said when the police departments attacked us, nobody will get
us from the outside. The only thing you'll ever hurt
us is from the inside. As I look out, I don't see anybody that's
been here at least a year that I'd ever think would leave. The
two that left didn't surprise me in the slightest. Two families.
I wouldn't expect anybody else to leave. Don't let them get
to you. Don't let them get to you. I
expect God to bless us, just like He's always blessed us in
the past, but there's always a battle before the blessing.
So what I'm saying is, suck it up. And do everything you can. Be faithful. Be where you ought
to be. Do what you ought to do. Keep
your life clean. Because Satan's going to attack.
I believe as much as he's ever attacked before. Let's stand and pray.
Why I'm Not 100% for Jack Hyles
| Sermon ID | 7100392416 |
| Duration | 1:56:54 |
| Date | |
| Category | Sunday - PM |
| Bible Text | Jeremiah 23:9-40 |
| Language | English |
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