We're going to take the offering as I begin tonight. This offering, if you didn't get a chance to give on Sunday, you can give right now. If you're ashamed of what you gave on Sunday, you can catch up right now. But what I want to do before I get into my lesson tonight, I told you I was going to bring different resources in from week to week. Next Wednesday night might be a good time to invite people. Next Wednesday night I'm going to talk about setting boundaries with your adult children. And I'm going to talk about difficult, difficult things. It'll either be me or Pastor Paul. We're kind of arm wrestling over who gets to do this next one. I have books I want to show you. Here's one called Once a Parent, Always a Parent. I'm going to put these in the back and you can go by and write down the titles of them. This one you will have to buy used. It's out of print. But you can get on Google or get on Amazon and you can find a used one, OK? We had to get this one used. But it's a little dated, but it's very, very good. Once a parent, always a parent. How to love and support your adult children. This one covers the theme. I'm not teaching from this. But it's called Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children's Six Steps to Hope and Healing for Struggling Parents. Great book by Allison Bottke. We're going to take that back there. This one I told you about last week. It's a general book. It's very good. The Power of a Godly Grandparent. We'll get into some of the issues that are in this book in the next few weeks. Leaving a Spiritual Legacy. And that's what I, I mean most of you guys are on the legacy mailing list. You've been a part of our legacy ministries here. This is a very, very good book for you. And here's another one by Dennis Ellington, Kit Ellington. It's called, The Godly Grandparent, Godly Grandparent. And just a lot of good ideas about how to have a constant influence in the life of your grandkids. Carrie, why don't you carry this back and put it on that table so people can look at them on the way out, if you would. All right, you've got your sheets. Let's get right into this tonight. and let's talk. It's a very specific class that we have going on here. Usually I'm the class that people can just come into and you can always jump in here and get to be a part of what's going on. And everybody is welcome, but we're kind of in the middle of something. And so if you're a little bit lost you can always go back and listen to these lessons online. Everything we say here at Grace can be listened to online. So you can do that. This is the second week I want to talk to you today about how relationships change when kids become adults. How many of you noticed that? That there's a little bit of difference in the relationship when kids start growing up and get a little older. They do things different. And Austin and Linda went to an interesting wedding. His daughter's wedding out there in Seattle and it was interesting, right? Portland, I said Seattle, Portland, okay, so the City of Roses. So people do things in interesting ways. Now I want you to see on your paper, I hope that I left it in there, there are not clear cut statements in the Bible about all of these topics, but there are some very clear principles. You know, a lot of Christians live that way. Well, if the Bible doesn't say thou shalt or thou shalt not, then it doesn't talk about it. Well, you know, there's a big range of things going on in the world, but there are principles that cover everything, but there may not be a specific verse or specific passage that you can point to that specifically uh... with all of the details so you know to the nth degree covers everything that you might face but what i'll do tonight is tell you what the bible says and i'll tell you what i have observed one of those is inspired and one of those isn't let me say that again i'm going to tell you what the bible says and i'm going to tell you what i've observed thirty five years of being a pastor and having three grown children and twelve grandchildren now i almost didn't get that out on sunday i was almost in trouble So, I don't have all the answers, but I've got a lot of observations, and when I call on you to participate tonight, do just like you did last week and speak up. All right? So, first, let's start at the beginning. What I mean by that is, let's go to Genesis 221 in your Bible. Genesis chapter 2, verse 21. We're going to start right there, and we're going to talk about adult children. And you're going to say, well, were there adult children in Genesis 221? Nope. was the start of what was going to be adult children in Genesis 2.21. Here's what happened there, "'And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept, and he took out one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man, and said, Look here.'" No, that's not what He did. But I just want to see if you are awake. Adam said, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Verse number 24 is a very, very, very important passage in the Bible. If we understood this verse to its nth degree and were willing to accept it we would really settle a lot of problems in our own hearts, lives, and homes. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and they shall become one flesh. And that's the beginning of everything. Right there. A man shall leave his father and mother, be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Here's a few thoughts I want to give you. One, fill in your blanks, the permanent and lasting relationship that God gave us as far as our earthly existence is that of marriage. It is so amazing how when we plan these things the subjects almost always line up with what's going on in the world. It's happening again. The permanent, let me read it again, the permanent and lasting relationship that God gave us as far as our earthly existence is that of marriage. God did not put a father and son in the Garden of Eden. God did not put a mother and daughter in the Garden of Eden. God did not put a parent and any combination of children in the Garden of Eden. God put a man and a woman in the Garden and said that they should cling to each other for life. Now we can talk about all kinds of things. What does the Bible have to say about divorce? Well here's what the Bible says about marriage. I mean, we can talk about the exceptions, but how about let's talk about the plan. It's kind of like saying, I want to go from here to California for my vacation. And you say, well, but if I do that I'm going to need to have some contingency plans in case something happens and I might not be able to go there. I might need to go here or go another place. Okay, yeah, but the plan is to go over here to California and have a vacation. God's plan was for a man and a woman to become one and to stay that way for a lifetime. You say, well, there are a lot of shipwrecks in the world. Yes, there are. But as I've said on Sunday morning, somebody needs to stand up and talk about how what ought to be not just simply deal with what is. That's why I'm preaching what I'm preaching on Sunday morning. God is very clear about what ought to be. You say, well what do we do with the people who've had difficulties and their marriages have come apart and it's created? What do we do with those people? Do we just throw them on the ash heap of history? Of course not. We deal with every situation. We help everyone. We work with everyone. We love everyone. We pick people up and we work with them, and we love them, and we help them from this point forward. You don't throw anybody away. Folks there are no throw away people on planet earth. important for us to understand. Yet, having said that, still we have to make a statement and that is, here's God's plan, a man shall leave his father and his mother and he shall cling to his wife. That is the permanent and lasting relationship on planet earth. Under that if God blesses our home with children this is going to make some of you mad as a hornet. If God blesses our home with children, it is the secondary and changing relationship. It is not the primary relationship. week I talked to you from Psalm chapter 127 about how children are in the home, they are a blessing, they are in the quiver, they spend time being straightened, sharpened, and strengthened. But there comes a time that you rear back and you say, OK, they want to anyway, they don't want to just sit there forever, they are ready to go. And you shoot them at the world. By the way, that is exactly what will cure this world of is some children with parents who love them, who train them and care for them, equip them, teach them great virtuous things about character, and then let them loose on this world. We will change the world with a generation or two of children that are godly. So, the permanent and lasting relationship that God gave us as far as our earthly existence is that of marriage. So if God blesses our home with children it is a secondary and changing relationship not the primary one. How many times have I heard somebody say, well Sally got to be 18 and went off to college and I looked at George and I really didn't know who that was. We wondered who each other were sitting across from the table from each other. It should not be that way. Next, we are responsible for our children as they grow, but that responsibility decreases as they grow to personal responsibility. God intends for everyone to grow. He intends for us to grow spiritually. He intends for us as children when we are born. He intends for us to grow up physically, socially, emotionally, and practically in every way. We are supposed to grow up to the point of maturity so that we can take care of ourselves and those that we are responsible for. So we are responsible for our children as they grow. That responsibility decreases as they grow to personal responsibility. And what I just said needs to be taught to children, teenagers, and young adults. That needs to be taught. My responsibility for you is decreasing. That's very important. So the permanent relationship, all right, that's number one. Number two, write this down. The duty of a parent is abundantly clear in the Mosaic Covenant. We have a duty. It's very, very, very clear. Here's what Deuteronomy chapter 4, verse 9 says. I'm just giving you some scripture here. Deuteronomy 4, 9 says, take heed to yourself and diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. So let's back up and think about that for a moment. This is Moses Joshua, and they are on what we call the Plains of Moab. They are getting ready to go into the Promised Land. They have been given a second chance by God. They are hearing the Law of God for the second time. God is redirecting, and re-energizing, and just getting them ready to go across the Jordan River and And He says to them, the very first part, He says to the parents, take heed to yourselves. Oh, it is so important that parents are what they teach, not just that they teach what they would like their children to be. We've got to not be hypocrites, but we have to take heed to ourselves, diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things that your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. And then it says, and teach them to your children and your grandchildren. So there's a teaching role for parents and grandparents. You see that? You see it right there in the Bible in black and white? There is a teaching role for parents of their children, and for grandparents of their grandchildren, especially concerning the day you stood before the Lord your God in Horeb, when the Lord said to me, Gather the people to me, and I will let them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days they live on the earth, that they may teach their children. So it's very, very important. We have a clear duty. Let me give you another verse, continuing in Deuteronomy 6, verse 4. Got your Bible there, just look at Deuteronomy 6, 4. This is the Shema. very important. This is the Jews even today, Orthodox Jews they repeat this every day of their lives. Here is what it says, "'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart, look at verse 7, and you shall teach them diligently to your children. So who is responsible for the education of children? Who is responsible? Let me say that again and get you to answer out loud. Who is responsible for the education of their children? Parents. Now, grandparents also get involved and teach. They may be a proxy. They may be a stand-in. They may be called upon for many things. But ultimately, the responsibility is with the U.S. government, right? Schools. Now, folks, I want you to just really tune in with me for a minute here. And I'm pulling over to part because this is so crucial. The United States of America and its people are the world's greatest delegators. We delegate everything. We love to delegate. We're good at it. I mean, we specialize. We know how to, you know, we don't, you know, let's see, from Ron Tuttle's generation, everybody knew how to do everything, didn't they, Ron? On a farm, you had to fix it. I mean, you didn't just send it off to get somebody to fix it. When it broke, you had to learn how to fix it and fix it yourself. you fix stuff and you know you're a half veterinarian and half doctor and half mechanic and half farmer you know half math teacher and half astronomer I mean you just you know the further we've gone the more specialized we've got and what we've done is is that we have taken lock stock and barrel the education of our children and grandchildren and we've given it over to a secondary third party and we said here well you can delegate some things but not without supervision because god's not going to ask the Des Moines Public School District, how'd you do on teaching these children? Who's he going to ask? So who bears responsibility? I do. You do. I've got twelve grandchildren now. I shudder in my boots. I don't have boots, I just have shoes. But I shudder to think exactly what they might be being taught. So when I get with them, I like to ask them all kinds of questions. What are they saying? What are they telling you? Where did you come from? You've got to do things like that. We are responsible for the education of our children. So, you shall teach them diligently to your children. We're still in the same passage, Deuteronomy 6, 7. And shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, when you rise up. In other words, it's the conversation of every day. I mean, maybe it's not a formal teaching situation, but it's, I mean, you might talk about the Lord and His law in the morning when you're having breakfast. You might talk about the laws of nature, which is God's laws. You know what the laws of nature are? are God's laws that nature must obey. There is no such thing as the law of nature, there is only the law of God. So, you write them on the doorposts of your house, you put them on your gates, and so on. So, it is the duty of parents to instruct their children in God's love and His laws. It's the duty of parents to instruct their children in God's love and His laws. It's the duty of Christian children, here's their total duty, to listen and obey. listen and obey. Proverbs 41 needs to be looked at, no Proverbs 4 verse 1, I wrote 41 it is Proverbs 4 and verse number 1. I want you to look at that with me for just a moment. Proverbs chapter 4 and verse number 1. Here's what it says. Hear, my children, the instruction of a father, and give attention to know, understanding, for I give you good doctrine. Do not forsake my law. When I was my father's son, tender and the only one in the sight of my mother, he also taught me and said to me, let your heart retain my words. Keep my commands and live. Get wisdom. Get understanding. Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you. Love her, she will keep you. Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore get wisdom in all your getting. Get understanding. Exalt her and she will promote you. She will bring you honor when you embrace her. She will place on your head an ornament of grace, a crown of glory she will deliver to you. Hear my son and receive my sayings and the years of your life will be many. I have taught you in the way of wisdom. I have led you in right paths. For when you walk your steps will not be hindered. When you run you will not stumble. Take firm hold of instruction. Do not let it go. keep her for she is your life. Look down at verse number 20. My son, give attention to my words, incline your ear to my sayings, do not let them depart from your eyes and so on. And so it just says over and over and over, hear my instruction. And so you see a parent teaching. And so what is the duty of the child? The duty of a child is very, very obvious. It is to listen and obey. parents and grandparents ought to be, it is so crucial that when children are small, when they are 1, and 2, and 3, and 4, and 5, you want them to develop the habit of listening to the voice of the parents and the voices of authority to listen and to obey. How many children tremendous difficulty and problem because they never learned that simple lesson of listen to those that are over you, listen to those, listen to your parents, and obey them because they are watching out for your life. A lot of parents are so distracted with the television, and so distracted with entertainment, and so distracted with parties, and self-interest, and everything else, even some good things that they do not specifically instruct, teach, and lead their children to obedience. Look to Deuteronomy chapter 11 in your Bible, Deuteronomy chapter 11, Deuteronomy chapter 11. These are the duties of children, very important here. fabulous passage, "'Therefore you shall love the Lord your God and keep His charge, His statutes, His judgments, and His commandments always.'" Now look at verse 2, "'Know today that I do not speak with your children who have not known and have not seen the chastening of the Lord your God.'" Over in Proverbs it says, "'The beginning of wisdom is to fear,' who? beginning of knowledge is to fear who? God. So the beginning of wisdom and the beginning of knowledge is to fear the Lord. Children don't automatically know that they should fear the Lord, and they don't know all the stories. They don't know all the history. They don't know where we've come from. They don't know the dangers. They don't know. They don't know. So that's what he's saying. They haven't seen all of these sayings. Look down at verse number seven. But your eyes have seen every great act of the Lord which He did. Therefore you shall keep every commandment that I command you today. And it goes on to say that you teach them to your children and their job is to listen and obey. Number three, the duty of children is abundantly cleared. Deuteronomy 4.16, honor your father and mother as the Lord God has commanded you that your days may be long on the earth. Ephesians 6.1, New Testament confirms it. Children obey your parents and the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother which is the first commandment with promise. And so it's the duty of children to obey. Teach children obedience. Teach them obedience above everything when they're young. That's the main thing they need to learn is to listen to the voice of the mom and the dad. It will save them from disaster. And let's just make it really, really practical. grandparents need to help your children understand that if they don't tell little Junior, if they don't teach Junior, or little Sissy, or whatever the name is, if they don't teach them to obey them at their first command then when they're running out in the street and they're going to run in front of a car and they say, Junior stop! They won't stop because they're not in the habit of obeying the first time. pretty practical isn't it? I mean how many little children are run over and killed because they don't listen to the parents? To be honest the parents need a spanking when the children won't obey. Because how does a 2 year old simply disobey a 6 foot 4 inch man? How could that be? It can't be. I know I sound like I'm from 1902, but I'm just telling you how disastrous life can be when we don't teach our children the simplest of lessons. You're not old enough to make all of your own decisions when you're two. And so when I say this or that, don't even think about doing anything other than that because I have your life in mind. that is so very, very important. We don't live in that generation. Oh, don't restrain the children. Oh, don't warp them. Man, I must be the most warped human on the planet. The duty of children is abundantly clear, I'll get off that. My neck starts sweating when I talk about this because I get so irritated watching parents in the grocery store. You can tell who has ever told their children no right there. You can tell right there. So, let's move on. Number four, parents are in danger of condemning their children by their own flaws. We're talking about, I thought you were going to talk about adult children. I'm getting there. Got to build a platform, see. are in danger of condemning their children by their own flaws, Deuteronomy 5 and 9. For I the Lord your God am a jealous God, listen to these words, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands to those who love me, and look at these following words, and keep my commandments. Somebody might say, well, I just don't think that's fair that God would judge the second, third, and fourth generation for what the parents do. That's not what it's saying. It's not saying that God judges them and makes them pay for the sins of the father. That's not what it says. And I'm going to read you a verse that says just the opposite. What it says is that our flaws are often repeated by our children. And if they make the same mistakes and do the same sins that we do, they're probably going to reap the same consequences that we did. That's what it's saying. Now let me read you the next verse. Parents are in danger of condemning their children by their own flaws. And then number five, adult children are responsible for their own decisions. Parents may not be perfect, but no one can point back and say, my parents are responsible for all that I am. That's just not true. Let me read you the Bible. You say, well, you know, kids never get a good start with the parents that they had. Well, the world will never change and there's no hope if that's the way that we always let someone have an excuse. Now listen. Deuteronomy 24, 16 this is the Bible, not Phil Winfield. Father shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers. A person shall be put to death for his own sin. Now I'm not talking about capital punishment tonight, but there it is. I'm not going to get off on that, but let me go on. So if capital punishment was something that was due to the particular actions of a particular person whether it was the father or the son, well anything less than that is also the consequence is due to a person's individual decisions. So a father shall not be put to death. Here the death penalty is in view but the same but hold true for any deed done and its corresponding consequence. Now I've read you a bunch of passages from the Bible that seems to say that parents are supposed to teach their children, and they're responsible for their upbringing up to a point, but when children get older and they start making their own decisions, then every pot's got to sit on its own bottom, as my mother would say. And you say, what did you just say? I gave you a Kathleen Winfield-ism. That means if I make my bed, I am going to have to sleep in it. Is that true or not? Now we can be compassionate and we can help and we can try to relieve and we can do everything we can, but you know what? You can't pick the milk up off the ground once it's spilt. let's go on. Here are some observations. Now folks I was reading you Bible verses at the first, now I'm going to give you some observations and some thoughts that originate right here in this small head, in the pea brain that's in my head. I believe I have some good principles behind them, but I don't want you to go out here and say, this is the fact, this is it, Pastor Phil said it, and therefore the whole world's got it. No, no I'm just telling you, I been doing this for a while, I've talked to a lot of people, and I've been a pastor for a while, and I've seen a lot of water go under the bridge, and I just want to give you some thoughts. I want to preface all of this by saying that these are not about difficult relationships, but We're going to talk about those next week. We're going to talk about situations where there's total crisis all the time, and adult kids come home and they just, you know, they hand their problems to their parents, and then they want to go live the life of Riley, and keep handing all their trouble to their parents. We're going to talk about that next week. That's another subject. I'm talking about just the normal relationships between parents and children as the children are leaving home. All right? So, let me give you some. Number one, the change should be gradual throughout childhood. Children are totally dependent when they come into the world. I mean they got no choice. You know, you're going to have to feed them, change them, help them, guide them, direct them, protect them, put clothes on them, put food on the table, and put a shelter over them. They are totally dependent. They need total nurturing, protection, and guidance. But as they grow and begin to develop, they develop tastes of their own. I thought that was amazing. The first time I ever heard Philip say, he didn't like what I liked. I said, what do you mean you don't like what I like? What's the matter with you? know. So the parent, so they're going to develop their own taste as well as their own character traits and personalities. Folks you are not trying to force a personality on your children or grandchildren. Don't do that. Don't try to force a personality on them. God gives them their personality. All right let me go on. And so The parent helps with prayer and training and discipline and instruction to train them in the way that they should go. But as they near adulthood, please listen, as they near adulthood, I'm going to give you an age, they need to start, I don't know, 14 or 15, they need to start making some decisions. Even if it's wrong. they need to start making some decisions more and more and they need to learn from the consequences of the decisions that they make while they're still in the learning laboratory of your home instead of never being given an opportunity to make a single decision until they're out on their own and they have no recourse after they make the decision. does that make sense what i'm talking about you do you do you understand what i'm saying i'm saying children don't need to have the first decision they ever make on their own be when they're away at college or when they've decided to run away that's not that doesn't need to be the first decision they ever make they need to be making decisions and having you help them and help them see it and help them see all angles of it but then let them make the decision now i don't mean you know is it okay to look down the barrels of a double barrel twelve-gauge shotgun i'm not talking about that talking about other things that are not so consequential. But they need to learn how to make decisions. My daughter and son grew up and we taught them how to make decisions. And to be honest they went to a Bible college where they went away and they basically took them back to kindergarten and said, nope you can't make decisions we are going to make all your decisions for you. It was a setback for my kids. It was. They didn't trust them to make a single decision. didn't stay there either. Alright, let's move on. So, they need to learn to make decisions. Alright, here we go. Conversations about the day they leave home should occur with regularity, perhaps not formally, but frequently. You won't always be living here, they probably need to hear that when they are about 14. What? What do you mean I'm not always going to be living here? No, no, you're going to grow up and go your own way, do your own thing, you know just casual. because they need to start getting it in their head. You know why you can ask an eighteen-year-old now? You can say, what are you going to do when you leave home? I don't know. You know why they don't know? Because nobody ever said anything to them about having to leave home when they were younger. what I'm saying? They need to be thinking about it. They need to be contemplating it. So, conversations about the day they leave home should occur with regularity, perhaps not formally, but frequently. Then the college years are the major adjustment years, chapter and verse. I told you I'm not giving you chapter and verse, I'm giving you observations from many years of being in the ministry and watching people and having a family of my own. college years are major adjustment years. The parents are letting go. The kids are leaving the security of a home. You know a lot of kids don't want to grow up today, they don't want to leave home, because why? It's very comfortable. It's cool. It's nice. I was reading a book today, and I was reading one of these books I can't think of which one it was. And so you had a mom and dad who were very frugal, and they had worked hard, and they paid for their children. Their children had gone off and gotten an education and left home, three of them they left home and went on out. And And the son, you know after he was out a while, you know he got to thinking about going home. Well while he had been away several years the mother and father they started you know making him pray, bought an old house on the hill. But through the years little by little made some improvements, fixed this, fixed that, put a wrap-around porch all around the old house, built a garage on the outside with an apartment upstairs so that they could, you know, rent it out, make a little money, and then they put in a swimming pool, of all things, wait till the kids get out of the home, and then put in a swimming pool, whoever thought. So, they put in a swimming pool so that when the grandkids came home they'd have somewhere to, you know, to entertain the grandkids and all. Well, he had about a 34-year-old son, he saw all that and said, hey, can I come home for a little while? Between jobs and this, that, and the other, so he came home, and nine years later, Why would he ever want to leave? He had a pool, he had cheap rent, he had food over at mom's house. Why ever leave? Interesting. So, the kids are going to be leaving the security of the home, hopefully. Sometimes financial situations dictate how fast the letting go and the leaving occur, but, you know, some of those things have to be looked into. The parent's role then changes even more. Where you were controlling, supplying, and correcting, now you move into a support, standby, stay busy, and stay available role. Let me say that to you again. You have been involved since the day that they were, you know, they first screamed out the first time after the doctor patted them on the bottom when they were born. From that point up to the time they left, you were controlling, supplying, and correcting, and instructing. Now you move into a support, a standby and wait, a stay busy and stay available role for your adult children. Marriage changes the roles even further. How many of you have married adult children? That really does change the role, doesn't it? You know why it changes the role? Because now then somebody's involved that really didn't grow up in your home. Who's that? It's the in-laws or the outlaws, any way you want to say it. So, figure out your son-in-law? Or can you figure out your daughter?" And that's hard isn't it? It's hard to figure people out. Alright, so marriage changed the roles. Now don't forget, don't forget the leave and cleave part at this point. Because Mom, you are no longer the most important person in the life of that son or daughter. Your word is no longer law. Your meals can no longer be considered the best, even if they are the best. None of those things hold true anymore because He's leaving and cleaving. Guess what? He has a new primary relationship. What's His new primary relationship? What is it? With His new? And what's her new primary relationship with her new? And it has to be that way. It has to be that way. If it isn't that way, interference and I'm getting ahead of myself. So don't forget the leave and cleave part and this works both ways. Parents must let them leave and cleave because that new relationship now takes priorities and newlyweds must leave and cleave and allow their parents their own relationship. should allow your married adult kids, this is the next point, parents should allow your married adult kids to develop their own family and their own traditions. And not automatically install your family traditions on their family for the perpetuity of their lives. Do your children have the ability to set up their own family order? This can cause a problem. Matriarchal and patriarchal demands are not always welcomed by the daughter-in-law or the son-in-law. I'll give you an illustration. My mother has family reunions. It's the Maxwell family reunion. And my dad hated to go to the Maxwell family reunions because they were all farmers. they were all, you know, everything they did was the opposite of what my dad did. And so he would go over there and they would just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and say, what do you think about that David? He didn't know because he wasn't part of it. And so that carried on. And then Bonnie and I got married. How many times did we go to the Maxwell family reunion? Twice maybe? went twice. The first time we went the kids were too little to rebel. And the second time we went and they made them all stand up and sing for everybody because they heard they were cute little missionary kids and that they sang over in a foreign country. And they made them all stand up and sing and everything like that. And they all just goo-gooed. And my kids and Phillip, Sherry, and Amber were at that time about 13, 14. How do you think that went over with them at that time? With 120 Maxwell's all going, aren't they cute? everybody's traditions that one generation has cannot automatically be forced on the next unless you want a war, because it will happen. All right, let me move on. You say, Pastor, is there a chapter and verse on that? No, there isn't. But there is a whole lot of observation. Let me go on. Finances. We're talking about finances of parents with adult children. Number one, parents sometimes can say yes to financial help. Sometimes can say yes. Number two, parents sometimes should say no to financial help. Dad, can I borrow $8,000 to buy a motorcycle? What would you say to that? How long would it take you to say no? Not long. Now listen, parents sometimes can say yes to financial help and your heart will make you do it. Sometimes parents should say no to financial help and your head should make you do it. Sometimes you make decisions with your heart and sometimes you make decisions with your head. Is that true? Which one gets you in more trouble, your heart or your head? Parents should always, now I'm talking about the parents of adult children. Parents should always discuss the request of their kids together. If you don't want to create a situation you're off, and you're gone on a trip, and you're doing, you're still working, you know, you're just whatever you're doing. You're gone and all of a sudden a request comes through and you came home and there was a lot of pressure put on your wife, or on the husband, or whatever. One of them is a softy and the kids know it, and they come in and they ask for help. And you come home and you say, well I wasn't even informed, I wasn't consulted, I wasn't even a part of this decision. How dare you do this? I mean who's in trouble now? Now Grandma and Grandpa are in trouble. with each other because they didn't do it. And then second of all, you just taught your kids a lesson, divide and conquer. Very important. So the parents should always discuss the requests of their kids together before giving an answer. They should come to an agreement even if they're not in agreement. You didn't hear what I said. You don't get it, do you? They should come to an agreement even if they're not in agreement. Why? Why would I say that? What? Okay, submission, that's one thing, but why would I say they should come to an agreement even if they're not in agreement before they give an answer? Why should I say that? So they're united whenever the kids, and wifey, please, I mean, you're just so tender and you want to help those little cute little cheek kids, you know, you still see them as little, you know, eight year olds, you know, they've got a beard hanging down to here, but he's just a little eight year old kid. going to have to put on a stone face. Now listen, they should be in agreement. They should give their answer kindly with whatever reason that you believe is the reason that is correct. And then you should be unmovable. Very important. They should discuss the request with the kids together before giving an answer. They should be in agreement even if they're not in agreement. And then they should be unmovable. Because as parents, here's another one, as parents you are striving to be self-sustaining in old age and not dependent on your children. Sometimes the best way to help your children is to say no. Because if you keep saying yes, guess what they're going to be doing later? It's going to turn around. All right, here's the next one. Loaning money is a dangerous trap. I'm going to give you some advice. This is, I cannot give you a verse in the Bible. Proverbs talks about loaning money to the poor, this, that, and the other, but the word loan there literally means give it to them. Now, here's what I want to say to you. If you want to have a problem with anybody, I don't care who it is, a friend, a brother, a neighbor. If somebody comes and they want to borrow from you money And you know that if you give them this money and they do not give it back, it will do great harm to your own situation, that you will not be viable, will not be able to meet your obligations, then you have to say no. And the second thing is, is that if you cannot afford to lose it, then you can't loan it. And third, give what you can and forget the loan altogether. Because if you give it away and say, I never want to talk about it again, then there's no impediment in the relationship. But if you loan money, even if after a while, five years later, they say, well, I can't pay it back. I'm so sorry. Can you please? Yeah, just forget about it. Don't worry about it. But you're going to worry about it the rest of your life. I loaned that guy $100. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's just that way. Money is a divider. Money causes more trouble in relationships than just about anything you can mention. So if you can give it, then give it. If loaning it or giving it puts you in a situation where you are going to be then having to look for help, then you can't do it. And so finances are very, very tricky. If you can give it, give it. I have a policy. I never loan. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever loan money. Nobody. If you ask me for money, I won't loan it to you. I'll give it to you. If I have it to give you, I will give it. And Bonnie is my witness. We've given it time, and time, and time, and time, and time, and time, and time, and time. And you just give, and then never talk about it again. It's all over. That's history. I don't want it. Even if you have it to give me back, I do not want it. That's a totally different situation because you've left the relationship totally free. But if you loan with expectations of something being paid back and they can't, then you've strained your relationship for perpetuity. Let me go on. finances. Next, child rearing. I've only got a couple of minutes. Child rearing. Now we're talking about normal situations now. We're not talking about crisis situations. These are just the normal situations of parents and their adult children. Child rearing, number one, do not be surprised if your kids seem lost in this area, because you are. were not observing adults when you were learning and teaching them, they were the projects. In other words when you were learning all this stuff and it took you your whole life to learn it, they weren't there to learn it with you. And so when your kids are growing up and they've read all these books and everything to tell them all kinds of silly things to do and then they finally come to you finally and they'll say, well you know mom I just don't know what to do because of blah, blah, blah. Well don't say, well you silly thing I haven't told you. Why don't you know? Don't say that. they were not, they were the children, they were not adults watching you rear them. Does that make sense? Do not be surprised if they're lost in this area. Next, here's another point where half of you are going to throw rocks at me. not make assumptions that you are invited to discipline them, the grandkids. Do not make the assumption that you have permission to discipline corporately, corporally, physically their children. Don't make that assumption. You say, well shouldn't our grandchildren obey us? Yep, but you've got to appeal to the parents. You better not be swatting on them. you want the parents to pick them up and go home and not come back for five years, do that. Just do it. Now, the point is, talk about it. You talk to your children, you say, you know what, if Junior does this, that, or the other, how do you want me to handle it? That's what you do. How do you want me to handle it? Well, smack him on the bottom. You know? Or whatever. Next. Another one. Tricky. Wait until you are asked We're talking about adult children who have children. Wait until you are asked for your advice. It's not like it was when, I mean, when the kids are growing up, when I was growing up, it was, if I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you. In other words, that's the way it was when you were a kid. When you're little, I mean that's just the way it is. They just tell you what to think, how to think, when to think, what to do. But it's not that way anymore. When they're an adult and they have their own family, I mean they've got thoughts of their own, plans of their own, ideas of their own, and they want to try this and try that. And so you wait until you're asked to give your advice. And here's a little saying that I say often. Bonnie and I try to remember this and quote it to each other religiously. Unasked for advice is seldom heeded and often hated. And by hated, I mean rejected. Now they may come to you later and say, what was it you said? They might, but there'll be some rough times in between. Next, on child rearing, don't override the wishes of the parents. It won't help. It won't hurt Susie to have that third piece of cake. Don't override the wishes of the parents. Next, don't drop hints to your grandchildren that make it look like their parent is the ogre that said no and killed all the fun. Well, I was planning on taking you to do this, that, or the other, but old Billy here says you can't go. Don't do that to your kids. You know, don't drop hints and make it look like the parent is an ogre. Child rearing. Next, dumb mistakes. Very quickly. Dumb mistakes. And here they are. Number one is to assume that good environments automatically produce perfect kids. How many of you know that that is just simply not true? Are there any perfect kids? No. environments don't automatically produce perfect kids. I have a friend that says that she just holds on to that promise. That promise in the Bible that says train up a child the way they'll go, when they're old they won't depart from it. The only problem with that is it's not a promise, it's a what? It's a proverb. It's a principle. It's a precedent. It's a principle. But it's not a promise. Because there's a sneaky little thing about children and young adults is they have a will of their own no matter what you tell them. How many of you have run into that will of their own? All right. Good environments don't automatically produce perfect kids. Next, eventually adult kids must make their own choices. And that's a fact. They got to make their own choices. Next, even when making mistakes, adult kids need to know they still have parents that the door is still open to discussion with you. Even when they make dumb mistakes don't just write them off because they need a resource, they need somebody they can talk to. Next, adult kids need to know they can be forgiven and that their parents have compassion. They need to know they can be forgiven and that their parents have compassion. If their parents don't have any compassion, then they're going to find some kind of compassion somewhere else. Next, the relationship that you have with them is bigger than the mess. Whatever the mess is, your relationship is more important than that mess. How many of you disappointed your parents at some time in your life? How many of you, your kids have disappointed you at some time in your life? They're still more important than the disappointment. So parents never give up. Parents never cut them off. Parents, you cannot negate the sin. Parents, you cannot reverse the consequences. Two positives and two negatives. Number one, never give up. Number two, never cut them off. Number three, realize that you cannot negate the sin. Number four, you cannot reverse the consequences. So when they do come around to ask for a decision about something, advice about a decision, Dad, what do you think about this? What should I do? Share your wisdom, but don't make their decision. That is not an invitation to make a decision for them. Everybody needs to own the decisions they make in their lives and bear the consequences and share the load for the decisions they make. So you share your wisdom, but you don't make the decision. So here are some suggestions for that situation when they say, I need some advice. Say, you tell them what you did in a similar situation. Tell them what you did in a similar situation. Two, help them uncover the facts. Help them see it from all angles. Help them uncover the facts. Number three, tell them to make no move without full agreement with their mate. Make no move without full agreement with their mate. I'm not talking about whether you buy a cup of coffee on the way home. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about if something that's big. them to make the wisest decision for the long term. Make the wisest decision for the long term. Another way to say that is don't sacrifice the future on the altar of immediate desire. Don't sacrifice your future on the altar of immediate desire. And that fits a lot of circumstances. Next, tell them to always do it God's way and to wait on God in prayer. Finally, confirm your adult children by asking them advice in their area of expertise. Confirming your children, blessing your children is another whole subject, we'll talk about that. So, just finally as we close up, know when it's time to show up, and know when it's time to stay away. So, when do you think, Pete, when do you think we should show up for our children? When do you think? Big events, birth of their children, big promotion. Bonnie? Supper, Bonnie. When should we show up? Big events, birth of children, promotions, change of jobs, heartache, difficult. If they specifically ask you to be somewhere, show up. When's a bad time to show up? By surprising them from a long way off. By the bad time to show up when they're really newly married. without a phone call first. It's a bad time to show up when they are engaged with another part of their family. I could go on, and on, and on. But there are times to show up, there are times not to show up. But always stick up your flag of availability. Hey, I'm available, I'm your father, I'm your mother, I'll always be there. Father bless us, help us to serve You with all of our heart. And just some of these thoughts that we've shared tonight I pray that they will be an encouragement and a help. And especially the passages at the first, the Bible passages that are so strong about teaching our children and our grandchildren. children honoring and obeying their parents. Thank you for this day in Jesus' name, Amen.