The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome to the show. Hope y'all are gonna have a good time listening, and we'll see if things go well or not. We're having a little bit of an issue on the radio, but we're trying. Anyway, so hey, look, if you wanna give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. I wanna hear from you. You can give me a call, and hopefully things will work fine there. I'm gonna just do a switch right now with this. And with that, and with this, and then we'll get, I don't know, callers are waiting right now, so I want to hear from you. If you want to give me a call, I'd be fine. All right. So, there we go. Let's do this. there and you can hear me now who you know tech is sometimes can be a little bit irritating just a little bit when all of a sudden something doesn't work you don't know why can't figure it out and uh... i'm a tech guy and so you can usually figure things out but this one has got me this one has really made it difficult for me to uh... to understand what's going on but that does happen alright so uh... If you want to give me a call on this May 17, 2024, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. is direct an email to info at karm.org info at karm.org C-A-R-M dot O-R-G and put in the subject line, just put in there radio comment or radio question and then we can hopefully get to it if you want. And if you're new to this show, you're cruising the stations, you want to know what this is about. It's a Christian station of course and I am a Christian who answers difficult questions, does impromptu debates, teaches. I've been doing this for over 20 years on radio and I've written 6,000 articles and several books. So we talk about the Lord, atheism, evolution, UFOs, the occult, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Trinitarianism, which is good stuff, hypostatic union, divine simplicity, isms and istics and stuff like that. So, there you go now. I want to hear from you. Well, thanks for reminding me. So on the 31st of this month, May 2024, I'll be in Ogden, Utah for a debate. I'll be debating with a Mormon. And the topic will be, does the Bible teach salvation by faith or works? Now, I'm just going to say that all false religions teach salvation is by works, faith and works. But that's the title there. So it's going to be Friday, May 31st from 4 to 6 p.m. at Weber State University. Weber State University, the Wildcat Theater. And I'll be debating David Robinson. Now I'm going to give a phone number out if you want more information. The number is 801-645-7433. And we're going to be debating. Now what does Mormonism teach? Now that's a topic. Because it was actually Mormonism that got me started in apologetics so many years ago. A friend of mine, Charlie, he read me a quote where Joseph Smith boasted that he did more than Jesus to keep a church together and it made me mad. So I started studying. And I've been studying ever since. So I've developed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of information on all kinds of religious systems, and written, like I said, 6,000 articles. All right, now, if you want to know where the debate stuff is, the information, if you want a better better grasp on it without quickly over the phone all you gotta do is go to karm.org forward slash debates that's plural debates and you'll see there it'll say upcoming debates and you can you can check it out click on the link and it'll take you right there see upcoming debates on 531 and all the info you need is right there you can put some maps and some stuff in there like that so easy peasy And it's Friday, and so sometimes on Fridays we do Whack-O-Mail. You know, I haven't got too much Whack-O-Mail lately. Whack-O-Mail, you know, it's, it's, it's got some people got some issues there. But I don't have any real good Whack-O-Mail. But hopefully we'll be able to get some, some, you know, maybe in the future. Uh-oh. Something like that really happened there. So now I've got to do that. Hit the camera. So anyway, if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877-207-2276. All right. We're having a little bit of an issue with the gimbal. And there we go. Got it. All right. Let's get to Anonymous from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You are on the air. Hey, good evening, brother, and hello out there on the radio live. Anyway, I was at a Bible study last month and there was one guy that said that there cannot be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that there cannot be The comforter, his was that God that Jesus came down to show us how to live and treat each other, and then he went back up to heaven. It was upside down and backwards, and I was trying to explain to the guy, I was giving him scripture, and uh-uh. Just if you could, I mean, we used to think about the Holy Spirit, there is a Holy Spirit. But, yeah, I was going to have a day or two, and he talked over the teacher and everything else. So what's your comment? Well, it's a comment, maybe, or whatever. I'm not sure what you're asking, though. Was he saying the Holy Spirit is not the third person of the Trinity? Yeah, he said it's not three different, and the teacher was trying to explain to him about... Wait, wait, wait, you've got to... Hold on, hold on. You've got to finish your sentence. He's not three different what? that they're not three in one, not triune God, not triune. Because there's no way that it could be three separate, yeah. Three separate what? Three separate the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus kept saying, how could Jesus be all of what you know? We try to say the ice and steam and water serve three different purposes. That's not a good analogy. Oh, okay. So was he teaching the Bibles or was he just a guy in the Bible study? No, he took up the whole time, you know, debating about it. No, no, wait, wait, wait. Was he teaching or was he just in the study? No, he was not teaching. He was not teaching. He was in the study. Okay, and when the discussion started and it just became that discussion for quite a while? Yeah, it was over for the whole hour of trying to talk to him. He wasn't having it. Yeah, he was comparing him to different spirits in this world. He doesn't know what he's doing. There's a lot of information that I have on Karma, on the Holy Spirit, and how the Holy Spirit, of course, is the third person of the Trinity. And what I would recommend is you could easily go to karm.org forward slash trinity. And when you do that, it will forward you. Let me do it right now. Forward slash trinity. And it'll take you to an article that I wrote when I write that. Come on. I got the right person then. Yeah, we're back in 2016 and if you scroll down, and this is for anybody who might be listening who wants to debate me on the Trinity. This is what I'm going to go to and this is what I'll ask. Because I show this table to people and nobody's able to refute it. I mean, it's just because it's what it says. But at any rate, in there you'll see where the Holy Spirit is called God, He's eternal, He's a creator all-knowing. everywhere, and that he has a will, has a mind, he speaks, loves, has fellowship with. So these are the attributes of personhood. And since he's called God, and he has all knowledge, and he's everywhere, then he's third person of the Trinity. And so when I show this to people, and I say, can you refute any of these verses? Is this what it says? And they can't. They just deny. They don't refute. They just say, well, this is more the Trinity. They just say, it doesn't work. Why not? This is exactly how you arrived at it. And they're stuck. And I had on my T-shirt that said, Father's 356 T-shirt. I said, well, like it says, and you're trying to figure it out in our earthly minds, this can't be done. And I'm glad it can't be. I don't want... And I have a book I got from church, John McCarthy, The True Work of the Holy Spirit, and maybe give it to... But thank you for your help. I didn't know quite what to ask or whatever, how to pose the question or... Yeah, that's okay. So he was just denying the Trinity, and that's okay, and denying that Jesus is God in flesh. I was like, I felt heart sick. I absolutely did. I was frightened not to be angry with him because he was just blinded. He was so blinded by false stuff. Yes, he is. He's definitely blinded. The wisdom, the wisdom. Yeah, yeah. Okay, my friend. God bless you. Thank you. Okay, okay. God bless All right, so hey look we have nobody waiting if you want to give me a call all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276 you have nobody waiting right now, so I think what I'll do is get on the the email list and Go over to Let's see, some emails. Let's see them, just see what they say. All right, first of all, like I say, I love listening to your show. I can only get the last half hour, but it's still all good. Preacher, rapture person. Okay, I know that you believe that people will go through the tribulation. Yeah, I do. Different thoughts on this but the church is not mentioned past revelation 3 I believe and neither is justification by faith So just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean it's not there. It's still true, but nevertheless And if your thoughts are correct on what is taken and what is left that the bad people are taken then why don't Jesus? Just take all the bad people and we don't have to worry about that trip. I Don't know. I don't know. Why doesn't Jesus do a lot of things? I don't know, you know, so I wish he would take bad people out now, but if he did, there'd probably be famine and plague because unbelievers do a lot of good works, keeping electricity going and cars running and things like that. So, I don't know, you know. Anyway, that part doesn't make any sense to me. I love the information on Mormonism. Good. I try to study it the best I can. Good. But I try to talk to a Mormon, though I think I'm going to be able to get through to him, and it seems like it is in Rocky 3. Rocky 3, where Rocky thinks he's going to beat the snot out of Mr. T, and he ends up, you know, getting leveled. That's awesome. That is awesome. So Mr. T, I don't know the actor's real name, but apparently he's a real good guy. He's a Christian. He goes around helping kids and speaking to kids and does a lot of good stuff. That's great. Anyway, that's not the whole purpose of this email. I just thought I'd throw it out there since I'm sending it to you anyway. Have you ever heard of a of an older radio personality. Well, yeah, like me. I'm 67. Is that an older radio personality? I have a Christian radio personality supposedly from the mid to late 80s named Bob Larson. Yeah, Bob's OK. Bob Larson's OK. I thought he was good at first, and all of a sudden, he went downhill. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's OK. He's not great. But yeah, he's OK. You can learn some stuff from him. So anyway, I enjoyed that email. It was fun. And let's see. End Times message. Oh, that's a wacko mail from William Branham. Branham's a non-Christian cult group. Let's see. Praise be to God who sent this guy with a wonderful message that made the Bible a new book. Wow. That's awesome, because he's got a new message. So now the Bible's a new book. Really? Oh, I get all the people for centuries couldn't understand it. Now Branham comes along with a new message. Now it's a new book. Wow. Oh, man. All right. Well, hey, look, there's the break, and we'll get back after these messages. So please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. There we go. All right. Whoo. Sorry about that. I hit a switch accidentally. All right. Hope you guys can hear me OK. Right. So there you go. All right. My bad. That was on me. All right. Hey, let's get on back on the air with I think that was who we with. Remember, let's get the dial from Houston, Texas. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes. Hi, my place. Hi. Yep. Yes, I can. All right. I've been listening to you for a long time, but I'm here with my brother and. We both grew up together in the same house and all that, but you have a lot of questions about the Bible, about sure. the authenticity of the Bible, I just don't know how the best way to explain things to him. As in, as in how, why should he believe in God? Or... Why what? Why should he believe in God? Or even if there is a God? I can answer that one. He ought to believe what is true. He ought to believe what is right. There's a natural thing, the issue of ought. You know, ought, you believe two plus two is four. Well, yes, you should. We get into the reasons for that. But you should, if God exists, you ought to believe in him, right? Makes sense. Yeah. Well, his question is, how do I know that God exists? Well, where did everything come from? You see, if whatever he's holding in his hand, if he's holding a thing, a phone, that proves God exists. The clothes he's wearing proves God exists. The seat he's in proves God exists. You say, no, it doesn't. Yes, it does. Because think about it. Whatever you hold, whatever you have, came from something. Well, where'd that come from? Well, from something else. Well, where'd that come from? And it goes backwards in time. Well, where did this all come from? Well, the people. Well, where'd the earth come from? And where'd the solar system come from? Where'd the universe come from? Everything that exists, exists inside a causal chain. A causal chain of events that bring us to now. Every event occurs in a context. So there are contexts in which we exist. Like I'm sitting in my office, sitting in a chair. I have a headset on, so my existence, contextually, is there. Why am I here? Well, my mom and dad, they got married. Why did they? Because they're parents. I mean, go back and back. Well, okay, so how far back do we go? We go back to the cause. When we look at something that is the cause, What is the cause of all that exists? If people say that whatever exists has always existed, that is not possible. Because physical objects, like we have in the universe, can't always exist. Because, well, there's laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics, energy's running down. If the universe were infinitely old, there'd be no usable energy in the universe. This is just a physics fact. And it would also mean an infinite amount of time has been crossed to get to now if the universe is infinitely old. And that doesn't work. You can't cross an infinite. So the universe had a beginning. Well, what began the universe? It's either something that's self-aware or something not self-aware. Something alive or something not alive. There's no third option. You say, it's either the case that a living being brought the universe into existence, or it's not the case that a living being brought the universe into existence. Or you could say, it's the case that the universe brought itself into existence, or it's not the case that the universe brought itself into existence. This is called a true dichotomy, whenever you have the thing and the negation of the thing. It's either the case that my cat brought the universe into existence, or it's not the case that my cat brought the universe into existence. And so when you have two possibilities, like my cat bringing the universe into existence, we only have two possibilities. If one is negated, the other is true. Can my cat bring the universe into existence? No, it can't. So therefore, we get rid of that, and the other one is true. The other one is, it's not the case that my cat brought the universe. It's a true value. Okay, so logic would require that we ask, well, what brought the universe into existence? It's either personal or not personal. It's alive or it's not alive. And if it's not alive, then it had to have the ability, it's called the necessary and sufficient conditions, it had to have the ability to do it. But if it had the ability, it was part of its nature, like a rock. It's not personal, it's not alive, it just is. It either has what it has or doesn't have what it has. And if it has what it has, the ability to bring the universe into existence, then it's gonna happen automatically. But if it's infinitely old, it would happen an infinite amount of time ago, which would mean the universe is infinitely old. But it's not. I'm skipping some stuff just to get through all this. And so therefore, the impersonal cause of the universe is not possible. Therefore, the other view is true. There's a personal cause of the universe. I've used this in many debates over the years, and it's valid. But it takes a little bit of practice to understand it, OK? Yes, sir. Um, do you mind that we're just sitting here together? I think you have some, maybe one or two questions. Sure. No problem. Yeah. Hi. Hi. Yeah. Um, so, you know, I, I think that there was some misunderstanding of what he thought I was thinking. It wasn't so much of, of, does God exist in that sense? So I guess my thing for him was more like, um, my thing was more like, we, we, we, I guess we can agree that we don't have, we don't have any type of physical or whatever type of proof. It's, it's more faith. And you believe, that God exists and we're fine with that, that God exists because we believe it and we have faith in it. And you know, that, that's right. And that's the thing. I mean, there's no scientific proof that he exists, which is fine. There's a scientific proof. So there's scientific proof. Yes, you see, science is a philosophy. People don't know that, but it's a philosophy. And it presupposes, the scientific method presupposes what's called the uniformitarian view, that everything in the universe operates the same way, and so they can make predictions. It's an assumption. It's a philosophical assumption. They also, scientists and the scientific method, presupposes the validity of the universality of the laws of logic and the consistency of the laws of logic and logical laws work in the physical world. And so these are assumptions that science is based on. So it's a philosophical approach to learning about the world. And people don't ever think like that, but that's the case. All right. Now proof is for logic and mathematics. How do you prove, for example, that George Washington lived? Is there proof? Well, we have paintings of him. Well, does that prove he lived? No. Prove means absolute assurance. Well, what if someone said, hey, you know, we have a film of him? Well, that's just not going to work, is it? And we've got a break coming up. So the evidence in history is different than what is used in science. So we don't want to use science for this. We want to use a different set of things to find things out about older things. And we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Dayo. Dayo, welcome. You're back on the air, are you there? Yes, sir. OK. Let me, yes, let me just. So I think our big argument now is the fact that you kind of answered it. but I think we're still having this. So he just wants me to admit that as a Christian, I don't know that there is a God, but because of my faith, I believe there's a God, but that there's no proof that there is a God. to say there is no proof that there is a God is not logical because he or nobody can know all proofs. There have been many arguments to prove God's existence. The transcendental, the ontological, the teleological, and I gave one. So that's not really a good place to start from. Now the question is, what would you look for? if God was real. That's what should be asked. If he's real, what would you expect to find? Because you don't want to see if you can find him under a laboratory microscope. Is that God right there? How does that work? How do you have a scientific thing to prove God exists? An experiment? No, it doesn't work like that. So what would be the kind of things necessary to find out if God exists? That's what you've got to ask. So, so you tell me, I guess, I guess that's what I'm trying to understand. Like, so, you know, you know, I guess that's, yeah, that's what I'm trying to understand. Yes. So, um, if God exists and he is so completely different that he is bigger than the universe and created it and we are these little slivers of dots on this little small dust called planet Earth if he's going to manifest himself to us let's just say he he comes by in a gigantic cloud okay we go oh what's that it's a cloud no it's God how would we know Or what if he was a big glowing light that come through and just passes you by? Was that God? Someone would say, well, I think it's God. Well, how would you know? Because it was a light. Well, how do you know? So it's difficult. So what we could say is, generally, we could say, if God was to communicate to us, he'd have to do it in such a way that we could understand it. That makes sense, because otherwise, Not going to do it. Not going to work. Alright, so what would be the best way to do that? Well, maybe a voice out of heaven. Okay, you get this big booming voice. Well, it did happen in the Gospels with God the Father spoke out of heaven several times to people and to Christ. Okay, well, that's interesting. Well, what if, you know, God is this being who knows everything and he's there and he's gonna enter into the world? Well, I think it'd be safe to say that we could say his entrance into the world would be pretty special. It wouldn't have to be, but, you know, maybe it would be special. What kind of things might that look like? Well, how about prophecy? What prophecy of him being born? What city? What family? What time? What would happen to him? in detail his death his resurrection all prophesied hundreds of years beforehand so many so that the odds of him fulfilling them by accident are greater than one in the number of particles in the entire universe. I can go into the math on that and it's easy to do So if God knows everything in the prophecies, like born of a virgin, Isaiah 7, 14. He'll be called God, Isaiah 9, 6. Born in Bethlehem, Micah 5, 2. He'll be pierced and crucified, Zechariah 12, 10, and Psalm 22. And all these are written. hundreds and hundreds of years before Jesus was born and in Daniel 9 24 through 27 there's a prophecy that before the coming of the Messiah when he comes in from the day that the decree to rebuild the the walls of Jerusalem from the day of the issuing of the decree there's a certain amount of time that will pass before the Messiah comes into Jerusalem and I can go through it but it's a 173,880 days that's what the prophecy talks about and that's 173,880 days is when Jesus came into Jerusalem riding a donkey as it was prophesied he goes on like this and he's born of a virgin how do you do that? And so, wow, people are waiting for his entrance into the world. If God's going to do this, that makes sense. And maybe his life is special for whoever it is. Like Muhammad, for example. I'm reading through the Quran now, and I'm doing it very slowly and studying it. And Muhammad, he just claimed to be a prophet. I am a prophet. Okay, where's the prophecy? Where's your miracles? Let's see something that shows that you're not just saying it. Let's see something that comes from God, if God exists with you, and nothing happens. There's nothing recorded. Oh, the Quran is the miracle. No, it's not, it's got problems in it. So, Jesus had prophecy about him, and Jesus claimed to be God. And I gave you the verses. Well, that's like, oh my goodness, that can't be the case. Well, if God exists, he's going to communicate with us. What better way is there than to become one of us and know exactly what we feel and think, walk and talk? You could sit there and sit down next to him. How could God do that? Well, he's God. You know, and the second person of the Trinity, that's more doctrine, became flesh and was indwelling the body, the person of Christ. And the evidence that is given by the eyewitnesses, hey, he walked on water. He commanded a storm to obey, and it did. He caused people to rise from the dead. He cast out demonic forces. He healed leprosy. He did all kinds of stuff. Fed 4,000 with just a few fish. Repeatedly, eyewitnesses writing this down. We were there, we saw this, we saw that. But that means his life is pretty spectacular. And he says, well, I can give you the verses, but he claimed to be God in flesh, the creator. And OK, and then his death. His death was the crucifixion. But after three days, he rose from the dead. And when the Romans killed him, they killed him. They knew what to do. Crucifixion was a horrible way to die. And they stuck a sword, a spear, up in his side. He's up on the cross underneath and blood and water came out. That's the separation of the blood because the heart doesn't functioning anymore. He's gone. His back had been ripped open, nails in his wrists and his feet. He's beaten about the face. Three days after that, He's in the grave. He rose from the dead. Now, that's the evidence. What's the best conclusion to draw from the evidence, the historical evidence? There's more evidence that Jesus existed than Alexander the Great, or Plato, or Socrates. You have more eyewitness accounts that are recorded within the lifetime of the people who saw it, written by many of those who were there with him. So, it makes sense to say, yeah, he's the one we should believe in. It makes sense to do so, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, thanks for that. I really appreciate it. Yeah, that's what it is. And people say, well, I can't believe. I can't force myself to believe. Well, yeah, you can, to a degree. You get in a car, and you drive in the dark. There's a car coming at you, and it's separated by this little paint line on the road. And you have faith that he's not going to drive into your lane. You don't have any proof, but you put your life on the line with that. Or the doctors that you trust to cut you open. You trust that they're going to do a good job, even though people die from doctor's work. And the medicines that you go to the pharmacy for. I trust that they do a good job. There's no proof. See, we have evidence for all kinds of things, and we're accustomed to certain levels of faith that we apply when we have evidence. The same principle applies to the truth of who Christ is. His arrival was prophesied, born of a virgin, performed miracles, died, and rose from the dead. He claimed to be God. So, I think it's, you have better evidence there to trust in him than the guy driving on the other side of the road. Okay? Okay. I hope that helps. Thank you. Thank you for helping answer this question. I really appreciate it. Yeah, and his questions are good questions. They're good questions. And it just takes time. I would recommend that he read the Bible. Just read it and read the Gospels and read about Jesus and see what you think of him. Okay? There's a break. All right, buddy. All right, you too, man. God bless. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to wade through them, then we can do some more. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get to Herb from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air, man. Hey, Matt. Listen, buddy, I'm going to try to be a little discreet on what I'm trying to ask you about, but I just want your feeling on it. You may not know anything about it. I have a friend who's joined a church in Durham, North Carolina. near where I live. And it's got Korean origins from it, from what I've read on it, and I cannot think of the name at this point, but it's on a login. World Mission Society Church of God. World Mission Society Church of God, yeah. That's exactly right. Now here's the thing, buddy, and I don't know what you saw, if you read what I put up there, uh... but i won't say today but that they've determined that there's a certain day come on a skid public they say there's a certain date that uh... the rapture is going to occur and she is so convinced of this that she wants to make these drastic changes and uh... uh... uh... as a friend i don't know what kind of advisor you can't talk to her i think it's a cult i really do i don't know it's a non-christian that's what i'm called Well, see, and they go straight out of the Bible, Matt. Well, here's the thing. She said there's a male and a female God. Well, that's not biblical. But she compares that with other things like us Christians, and I know it's not true. us Christians are missing the boat, that we're not aware that on this day we're going to miss the boat. She's going to, she and her group is going to be in heaven and we're not. And God came back in the thirties with the male and the female God. And then I think sometime in the thirties, it says that who came and they sleep in their car. When they go, they take, she takes her, well, she takes her child out of school a lot. And that's not, that's not the way to do, you know, And I've, I think a lot of her, I care about her, but she's, she's so far gone in this thing and she only got into it in the last few months, but I don't know how to advise her or if I can advise her. What do you say? There's a phenomenon called snapping and she snapped and it's very hard, hard to get someone out once they've snapped. It's where you don't believe, you don't believe in wham, you believe in it and then just go with it. So yeah. Um, It's you know, I'd be willing to talk to her over the phone. I'm sure she wouldn't want to do that But I'd be willing to ask her questions that deal with truth in the nature of how can you have a mother and a father? God are they both eternal? And there's serious problems. Yes. It's like Mormonism where they come from. Why is there male and female? Do they have relations in heaven you to ask all these questions? And what's going on? Yeah, and so You know, and they generally can't answer them, but I have to be very careful when I'm talking to someone in a group like that, because they're so brainwashed that if you say the wrong thing, they just shut the door. So you have to ask very... She tends to... I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. It's all right. I said she tends to get very abrupt, very blunt about things and kind of a little bit overboard. And you have to be careful what you say to her, because she's so... brainwashed, like you say, at this point. I don't think there's any saving to her, but she has a child that I'm concerned about being brought up in this. And I don't, you know, I know I wouldn't be able to get her on to talk to somebody like yourself outside of her group of friends. But everything you're saying is exactly what I felt, too. It's a cold. She's totally misled. But I don't know what's going to end up happening with her. at this point? Well, often the people in cults, it takes something traumatic to get them out. It usually cannot go very quickly or very slowly. For the very quick, a trauma occurs. It can be all kinds of different things that just traumatize them and they can't handle it and they leave. But a lot of times, over a period of time, they start seeing inconsistencies. They start thinking about them. Like in Mormonism, when Mormons see inconsistencies in their history and their doctrines, they ask the The bishops that are basically told, don't ask those kind of questions. Well, why not? This kind of stuff, and it begins a process. Well, why can't we just ask a question? What's wrong with that? and they don't want you to do the same thing. So this is the same kind of thing that happens with cults like this. And I can deal with them. I can handle them. I would be perfectly willing to do a public formal debate with a representative in the whole bed. I would do that, because it's never going to happen. So what do you do? Well, you pray for them. Now, you've got to understand, when you start praying for her, really praying for her, you're going to be stirring up a spiritual pot. and you want to be preyed up that the demonic forces don't turn their attention on you and make your life a little uncomfortable. It can happen. It doesn't mean it's going to, but it's just a possibility. So that's something to think about. The other thing is, if there's a way for you to guard her, now, even as far as if she wants to say, let's just say she's so convinced her after is going to happen next week, she sells you her car for $1,000. Let's just say. You say, okay, $2,000, you buy the car, and then you hold it for after it fails, you can, you know, get her, she can get back her life, get back going. You're guarding her stuff for her because she can't handle it. None of that's possible, but these kinds of things that are, you know, we watch out for those people who are brainwashed. Yeah. It's very difficult. Well, there is a specific date and I told you call her your screener. Um, but I don't want to say it to scare other people, but I told her, well, what if you wait? I mean, she's convinced if she doesn't do certain things, I don't understand it all, but whatever she's supposed to have to do to get ready for that date, which is not too far off. Um, she's got to do it. And I said, well, why don't you wait? till that date and you know you might be wrong and if these things don't occur on the date that you say that you've been with your vision whatever you've been told and it doesn't happen would that not tell you that this just may be a mistake the wrong religion to be in the wrong you know group to be a part of But I don't think she's going to listen to me, but that was my thinking. I said, just be patient. If you think this is truly the right way, and you believe as a Christian, which they call themselves Christians, but I know that they can't be. But I said, if you believe the way you believe, then if you just have faith and see what happens on that day, and then if you find that you're wrong, then realize it's not a sin to be wrong. Just admit even the wrong belief and get with the right belief. But I don't think she's going to fall for that. It's just no talking to her. But I wanted to confirm with you, I felt in my own mind, I don't have a lot of background on stuff like this, but I felt sure it's got to be a cult. And I never heard of the beliefs about the male and the female God and all that. There's just no way. Yes, they teach, look at my notes, okay, God is modalistic, so there's the Father, Son, Holy Spirit being three distinct simultaneous persons, these modes. There's a Heavenly Mother, salvation is by baptism, and you have to do it in the name of Jehovah the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit who is Anansanghong, it's hard to pronounce. And you have to touch, you have to give money. and that's where the crookedness is i think there's somebody's getting rich off of these people who of course you know have low self-esteem and you know saying you if you don't believe in something you fall for anything and i think that's what she's gotten into but i i just can't i can't get her to see the forest for the trees i mean i just i don't know but i i really appreciate that you're confirming what i I felt pretty sure I was correct, but I'm not that smart of a person. I mean, I'm just an average guy, but I wanted to confirm it from you and just see what you thought and any suggestions. So, well, time will tell. It's bad news. Yeah. Sorry. That's what it is. She's in a cult and there's lots of cults all over the place. Lots of cults. Yeah. That is so sad. You know, the Lord really needs to come on back soon. I mean, it's not for us to say, but I sure wish he'd heard and come back. We sure need him. That's right. Well, Matt, God bless you as always. You and your family. Thank you so much. And y'all have a wonderful weekend. You too, man. God bless. Appreciate it. All right. Yes, sir. Bye bye. All right, all right, all right. Let's get to Fabio from Ontario, Canada. Welcome, you're on the air. Hey man, appreciate you taking my call. Just started listening to your stuff recently. Absolutely love it, your website, fantastic. Love the debates. I think I have the debate with you and ArnRaw next to watch, which I'm really excited about that one. I already feel bad for him. He won't ever debate me again. What's that? He'll never debate you again? No, he won't ever debate me again because at the end of our debate, listen for it, I started saying he had faith. Oh man, he did not like that. He did not like that at all. Oh yeah, oh yeah. He's really easy to get angry. I don't know if you know who Bob Duco is. He's up in Michigan. No, it does ring a bell. Sorry. He has a, he has a radio show as well. And he debated him as well. And it was funny cause the topic got on dinosaurs and Aaron Ross started saying, well, I'm not a, you know, I'm not a professional on dinosaurs after Well, first she said, let's talk about dinosaurs. Then after Bob Ducos started just going with why dinosaurs live with man and things like that, and then all of a sudden he wasn't a professional in that field, which I thought was funny. But anyways, I wanted to ask a question. I was a, I was a Catholic for many years. Uh, I've been saved for about 12 years now. Um, so, I was trying to get a conversation going with this gentleman. He has a YouTube account and a Catholic guy. And he's talking about all these Catholic things and I have a good understanding about Catholic doctrine and all that. And I told him, can we have a dialogue about baptism or belief for salvation or for being born again? He wants to talk about all these other things, like he wants to talk about the early church fathers, and this and this and that, and I told him, with all due respect, I don't really care. It's what the scripture is telling me. So my church, early church fathers is Paul, Peter, John. Now, do you have anything... That's what I say. I do the same thing. Right? I mean... I do. If these guys in the first, second, third century are saying something different than the Scripture, then something's wrong. And I know they don't uphold the Scripture as we do. I get that. Now, do you have anything that I can look at where it talks about... So his thing is, the early church fathers would agree with his analysis of baptism, which is, baptizing babies and needing to get baptized to go to heaven as opposed to what we believe in believers baptism. What you can do is go to CARM and look up early church fathers. It's a main category. And then go to quotes by topic. And you'll see where they differ on the apocrypha, baptism, the canon of scripture, the Eucharist, faith alone, purgatory, salvation by faith, scriptures of final authority, and a bunch of other stuff. so when I talk to Catholics and East Orthodox and they tell me that the Church Fathers agreed with them I say, which Church Fathers? Which ones? Because they contradict each other. No they don't. Oh yes they do. You know, I go to Baptism and Salvation, I click on my links and I've done the research. You know Irenaeus said Bapu was necessary. I did Origen and Tertullian and Ambrose. But Clement of Rome and Polycarp and Marianas Victorinus said no. I read them to quote and say, and furthermore, and you can do this in all kinds of topics. And you can say, look, um, how do you know what these church fathers are? Right. That's a question. And they can't answer. Right. They have to go to the scriptures. Oh man, we're at that time. Call back tomorrow. Well, tomorrow, come back Monday. We can talk about the church fathers. I deal with the Catholics. Okay. Perfect. I show you a link. That's awesome. Yes. I appreciate it so much. God bless you, brother. Okay. God bless. We'll talk to you later. Another program powered by the Truth Network.