Welcome to the Equipping You in Grace podcast, hosted by Dave Jenkins. The Equipping You in Grace podcast is a podcast about helping Christians develop a biblical worldview in a conversational tone about issues inside and outside the church. Now, for today's episode, let's join our host, Dave Jenkins. All right, welcome back to the equipping grace podcast. My name is dave and i'm the host for today's show And on today's episode we're going to be tackling Uh as part of our series going through and talking about false teachers we're going to be talking about one man derrick prince who has a considerable amount of influence on the church today, especially his teaching on deliverance ministry. And so on today's episode, we're going to talk about who Derek Prince is, why does he matter, some background, give you some background information to his theology, and we're going to spend, Doreen and I are going to spend a lot of time talking with you from Ephesians 6, 10 through 18. We're also going to bring in examples from church history, and we're going to interact with Derek Prince's theology. And I hope that this episode will equip you in the truth of God's word. It'll help you to speak the truth in love, and it will help you to develop even more a biblical worldview. And so I'm gonna let Doreen today introduce our episode to you, and I hope that you found it helpful for your life in godliness. A lot of people who come out of New Age into Christianity like I did, praise the Lord, we unfortunately can get waylaid by false teachers and there's one in particular who is very enticing to people just coming out of the New Age. His name is Derek Prince. He's no longer with us but a lot of his audios are and he's got, there's people who have websites and social media devoted to him and he's very alluring. I think it's part of his accent and he seems to be very distinguished and he talks a lot about biblical truth, but then he weaves in something that really can be a stumbling block, especially people coming out of deception. And that is his whole teaching about deliverance and especially his teaching where he says that demons, Satan and his fallen angels, the demons have legal rights to invade us as saved people when the Holy Spirit indwells us. And he says that's because of unrepentant sin. So, we're going to explore why that's not biblically true and why it's even spiritually dangerous with our good friend, Brethren Christ, Dave Jenkins, who's an author, theologian, and the executive director of Servants of Grace. The links to his website is in the description below. Thank you, Dave, for being here to talk about Derek Prince, because this is a topic that, because he does have some theologically sound teachings that gets very confusing for people. Well, Doreen, as always, it's a privilege to be with you. We enjoy always recording with you and working together on these things. So as you're as you were talking in the introduction, I agree. Derek, he was a very highly educated man. He knew Sarah and I, my wife and I were talking about this last night, this episode. And I mentioned, you know, he he knew how to craft an argument. And when you know how to craft an argument and you know how to do so convincingly, it can be hard to, unless you know how arguments and you know the background to that kind of thing, it can be hard to unravel it. And I'll be honest, it took a while. This has taken a lot of time and a lot of thought. on and study for me, even as a seasoned theologian, been preaching since I was 16, studying theology since a little bit before that. And this was a tough one. And so we're going to stay, like Doreen said, on talking about legal rights. I think just for those who may not know who he is. He briefly was a international Bible teacher. He, as Doreen mentioned, was highly respected for his theological insights, his Christian faith. He was the author of over 100 books. These books continue to attract hundreds of thousands of people. His teaching is given throughout the world. All you have to do is, for example, if you go to his YouTube channel, he has 736,000 subscribers. Which, you know, that is a lot, a lot of people. And so there's a lot of interesting things about his background. He had a wide influence. And I thought as we're going into this, just some of this background would be good because there is so much background, and he had such an influence on a lot of different things. So, in the Deliverance, the Evolution of a Doctrine, Stephen Hunt remarks, Derek Prince, another member of what is known as, he says, the Fort Lauderdale Five, is possibly the most important figure in furthering demonology behind deliverance. Some of the leading practitioners today, such as Frank Hammond and Bill Sebritsky, I think it is, pay tribute to the work of Prince, the latter having been trained at Princess Fuller Seminary. Prince had pioneered a belief in the hidden prevalence of witchcraft in the USA, and he spoke of demons as disembodied spirits trying to control human beings, and of dark angelic powers attempting to dominate churches, cities, and other geographical areas. These teachings, he says, correspond with those of Peter Wagner at Fuller Seminary in California. Stop there for just a second. Peter Wagner, if we remember, was the man who coined the term, the New Apostolic Reformation, where John Kimber, stop there for just a second. He broke off from Calvary Chapel and started the Vineyard Movement. Now back to the Stephen Hunt quote. Prince also has been largely responsible for developing teachings of ancestral spirits and the alleged demonic implication of self-curses, generational curses, and soulish prayers through his very influential work Blessing Your Curse. So that's what Stephen Hunt in his article talks about. Now, as Doreen was mentioning at the outset, a legal right is something that can give demons an opportunity to enter, to harass us. It gives them the right to remain in us even when we cast them out. So some of there's a lot of different things that Derek Prince mentions about pretty much any like emotion, like anger, depression, sadness, loneliness, all of it. You know, he sees kind of like a demon behind every every every single like emotion or. or thing or sin. We could say it that way. So Derek prints in his own words in War in Heaven, God's Epic Battle with Evil, published by Grand Rapids, chosen in 2003, page 158 through 160. He claims that if we, including Christians, have any unconfessed sin in that area, we do not have full legal rights of redemption. Satan still has a legal claim, he says, in that area. He has a legal right to occupy that territory. The devil is a legal expert. Now, he explains further, that quote came from actually a devotional that he has given called forgiving others, where he says this, we're not entitled to claim forgiveness from God in a measure greater than that with which we forgive others. If there is a person whom we do not forgive in corresponding measure, we are not forgiven by God. That means the area of unforgiveness in our own lives is an area over which Satan still has a legal claim. We cannot dislodge Him until we have forgiven whomever it may be who needs to be forgiven. He says that redemption is coextensive with the forgiveness of sins. If all of our sins are forgiven, then we have the total rights of redemption. Satan has no legal claim outstanding against us, but if there is any area in our lives in which sin has not been totally dealt with, Satan still has a legal claim in that area. He says that we can get all the preachers in America to preach and pray over us, but we will not dislodge the devil because he knows that he has a legal claim. We need to remember that the devil is a legal expert, he says. He knows it too. However, God's Word offers us total forgiveness of sin, and it's crucial that we hold on to the total forgiveness and leave no offense unforgiven. So, this is something that I have heard, especially coming out of the New Age, there's a lot of talk about if you have not only unrepentant sin, but if you have items in your house that are from the occult, from the New Age, that that also gives the demons legal rights to oppress you. Now, this sounds like Derek Prince is not only saying that they would oppress you, but that they would be in you. And this is kind of like we're hearing with modern day deliverance ministries that you can have the Holy Spirit within you and also a demon in you, which that's not biblical at all. You and I actually did a video on that topic that we should link to this. we're gonna include that here in this episode, you know, later on in the episode. But no, when I think of that, when I read that, I thought of the adage, putting the cart before the horse. So you get the wrong order. You're focusing first on somehow, and he actually lists in several of his books, and they shall expel demons, he gives instructions to the deliverance minister how to minister, and he uses the word, so there's the minister he gives instructions to, and then he gives instructions to the minister to minister, in his words, to the patient. Patient, he calls them. And so, these things, he's putting the cart before the horse. It's not about when he talks about how, for example, any unconfessed sin in our life, he makes, in my mind, he's making, we're not, he says, we're not entitled to claim forgiveness from God in any measure greater than that which we forgive others. So it makes it seem to me that forgiveness is conditioned based on something that I do. That's putting the cart before the horse. And also, I get the impression when I read his work, that if you do the he even lists steps. And so the idea is, if you do those steps, then you can be saved. And that's a false. That's a false. Yeah, that's works based. it's it seems yeah, it seems very workspace, but this is why I said at the beginning you have to start to unravel the thread and the more that you pull out the thread and pull out the argument and you Dig in and you unpack it you find that how bad it is. Like I said, it's an it's an it's an enticing If you just read it, you're like, okay, that sounds okay, maybe, perhaps, but then you start pulling it, you start thinking about it, you start digging, what is forgiveness? Is forgiveness something that I deserve? Is it conditioned, like he's seemingly suggesting and saying? And the answer is overwhelmingly, no, forgiveness is not conditional. Forgiveness is not something that I ever merit, ever deserve. What I deserved was wrath. I'm dead in my trespasses and sins, Paul says in Ephesians 2. What I deserve is hell, and yet God, that famous phrase in Ephesians 2, but God, He by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Well, let's talk about, there are verses in the Bible that Jesus and Paul both said that we must forgive our brothers, our enemies, or the father won't forgive us. And so, that sounds a little conditional too, because if the father doesn't forgive us, then we would be deserving God's wrath. We're not saved then, right? So, let's unpack that in view of what Derek Prince is teaching. Matthew 6, 14-15 says, For if you forgive others their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. And we have to remember the concepts Jesus is addressing, you know, the Sermon on the Mount, it's most likely religious leaders and other people who are attracted to Jesus' teaching, and those kind of things. At the very end in Matthew 7, 24-25, they recognize that he's actually speaking as one with authority. And we know from studying the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, what Jesus is actually doing is he's using the law and applying it to the people that were hearing him. And so he is making an argument to point out people's sin. He's using the law of God to do that. And yet, so when he says he's using an if-then argument, for if you forgive others their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will forgive you." That does sound conditional, but when we zoom out and we look at the whole Bible, what we see, and like Ephesians 1-7, we know that it had nothing to do with us, it had to do with Christ and who shed His blood for us. When we look at 1 Corinthians 15, 1-8, that famous passage, right? We see that It was actually Jesus who paid the penalty in our place, and for our sin was buried and rose again. He appeared to over 500 witnesses, and on and on we could go with that. So forgiveness is not then conditional. That's not what Jesus is meaning. I mean, that would make the whole reason that he came and I think it's Matthew 121, he came to die, he came under the sentence of death to die. That would nullify this statement, and it would make God a liar, which Titus 1-2 says God doesn't lie. So this has to do with in the context of the Lord's Prayer, we're talking about Jesus just gave a Lord's Prayer, the longest version of the Lord's Prayer. There's another one in the Sermon on the Plain in Luke 6, I think it is. And so, here what we see is we're supposed to pray, you know, those things, the Lord's Prayer, and these things are shown to us so that, hey, We want to pray that prayer. We want to be delivered from evil. We want the Lord's help and all those things. Then we need to, you know, we need the Lord's help. The whole point of the first couple beatitudes that Jesus gives the opening of this in Matthew 5 is we can't do it on our own. We can't be self-sufficient. And we need the forgiveness. We need the mercy. We need the, we're poor in spirit, so we need to cry out to the Lord. We can't do it on our own. And we need, then, if we know the forgiveness that God offers through Christ, then we will desire to forgive other people. You know, forgiving people, they, as J.C. Ryle once said, they forgive people. It's a simple but profound statement, but it's right out of this text. Yeah. So, I mean, if we're talking about that we must forgive and then the Father will forgive us. And there are conditional covenants in the Bible and this seems to be very important. We're commanded to pray for our enemies, for example, and we're commanded to forgive, So, if we're not forgiven by the Father, then we would be an unsaved person, and it is possible then that we would have demons possessing us if we're unsaved. I mean, so in that regard, I know that's not what Derek Prince is saying, though. That's not. Derek Prince is talking about demonology for saved people and that you have to cast them out, kind of like we're seeing Greg Locke and other modern deliverance ministers saying that you can be saved, but you still have demons inside of you. I mean, definitely we'll have spiritual warfare. Ephesians 6 talks about that. and Peter talks about that. We're supposed to submit to God and resist the devil, put on the armor of God. These are the instructions we're given. We're not given instructions like you're talking about with Derek Prince, these steps to cast out demons if you're saved. So, this is unbiblical, what he's teaching. It's almost twisting, isn't it? what the Bible says. Yeah, that's why it's hard to ascertain, like 1 John 1 says, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us. Now, we're not saying that text doesn't make our condition our salvation or based on us confessing. the last part of it, he is faithful and just, is vital. And then he actually clarifies, which most people don't even quote this, but in 1 John 2, 1, John says that Jesus is our advocate. He is our advocate. He lives to plead the merits of his blood on our behalf. He's like a defense attorney. He's standing before the Father, pleading the merits and the treasure of his own blood that He paid for us in our place and for our sin. And we need to remember as well Hebrews 12 where the writer of Hebrews, whoever he is, it doesn't really matter, but he talks about how we can counter the discipline of God. That's, you know, if we don't forgive others, God will. God takes that very seriously. And, you know, we can come under discipline for that, but that doesn't mean that even that, that doesn't affect our security, I'll say, it doesn't because that's Romans 8, 31 through 39, but it can hinder our fellowship with God. And that's the point of John, 1 John 1, you know, if we don't confess our sins, you know, later earlier in 1 John 1, 7 or 8, You know, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. So, our security, we remain as secure because of the death and resurrection of Christ as ever, down to the nanosecond. But our fellowship with God can be hindered, and that's where we come, where we rub up against this kind of idea where it sounds enticing at first, but when you dig into it and you think about what He is saying and you pull the cord a little bit more, the argument really unfolds and it falls flat on its face because our salvation is not conditional. It's base, it's grounded in, Jesus says, In John 19.30, it is finished, meaning it was signed, it was sealed, it was delivered. The temple was torn from the top to the bottom. Our access to God is 24-7 as children of God adopted and justified and redeemed. all reconciled to God, all those amazing things that God has done at the moment of our conversion. So, there's no way what he's saying works. It's not even just Jesus that says it, you know. Paul, I mentioned Ephesians 1-7, Colossians 3-13 says, bearing with one another, if one has a complaint against one another, forgiving each other as the Lord has forgiven you, so you must also forgive. I think of this kind of, this passage, I think what Paul is doing is he's giving a little bit more of a commentary on this text in Matthew 6, 14-15. I've always kind of thought that way because, you know, he's using essentially the same language that Jesus is using, but he's also kind of giving a little bit further idea of what it actually means. And so, you know, forgiving each other as the Lord has forgiven you. There's no other way to forgive another person unless you have been forgiven. That's why J.C. Ryle is right. Forgiving people forgive. So, yeah, as bad as people have treated us, the Lord has even more to forgive within us. And some people use, you know, that 70 times seven passage even. So, all I need to do is forgive whatever 70 times seven is, which is like, what is it? Almost like 5,000 or something like that. But that's not the point. The point is you have to forgive an infinite amount of time, times, excuse me, because you have been forgiven. If you're in Christ, if you're a child of God, if you've been redeemed and reconciled and justified, you are to forgive and to continue to forgive. And if you won't forgive, you know, then, you know, this is why Jesus, the way we have warnings in like Hebrews, and even we could say potentially this passage and why God will discipline us. And it's not because he doesn't love us. That text in Hebrews 12 tells us very clearly that it's because he disciplines us because he loves us. He loves us. He loves us enough to take us, you know, if he if he ever got, you know, spanked as a child, he loves us enough to take us out to the woodshed and give us a little, you know, loving spank, you know, humble us. Yeah. And humble us. OK. That's right. Yeah, so Derek Prince talks about not only unforgiveness, but unrepentant sins, so sins that you might not even be aware of, which that sounds impossible. I mean, Romans 3.23 says all of us are sinners, even after we're saved. The difference is that we're grieved when the Holy Spirit is grieved. We're convicted and we don't want to sin anymore, but we still will lapse and we'll have a thought, maybe an angry thought or something. And so how can you possibly be aware of all of your sins since Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said so many of them are in our thoughts? How could we possibly know all of our sins that have grieved the Holy Spirit to confess them? So, Derek's Prince's article, his argument, rather, seems impossible. I mean, you have sins that you know about, and then there's the sins, like you're mentioning, you don't know about. Right. And yet, God does. And so, you know, I mean, how does that work? I mean, there's a mystery there. We don't have an answer other than What 1 John 1.9 says very clearly, if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Like, even we could go back to Psalm 51, you know, created me Lord, our cry then should be, created me Lord, a clean heart. which he does through Christ. And so, or as Calvin and Luther said, repentance isn't just for getting through the doorway to conversion. It's literally the Christian life. And so, repentance is a lifelong thing. It's not just a a moment, just a moment in time. It's ongoing in our lives. We need it. Yeah, definitely. So what Derek Prince taught was that there'd be these gotcha moments that the devil would have legal rights and illegal rights. I don't remember ever reading about that in the Bible. I mean, definitely the covenants are based on a legal contract. And if we, you know, there's blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. Is that what he's twisting into this term, legal rights? No? Okay. Paul He might be, you know, and that's a good point. But, you know, I think even the, it's important to say when you look at passages like Deuteronomy, it's either chapter 32 or 34, I think it's 34, But even there, at the heart of the law, we discover that there is mercy, there is forgiveness, there is hope. At the heart of the books of the law, the five books, it's His covenant has said love. the love that remains, that is tied directly to His character, His covenant faithfulness and His loyalty to us. And every time you see that love expressed, you see it pretty much as the foundation for the covenant that God made that's tied to His character. Corinthians 1.20 says that all the promises of God are yes and amen in Christ, and Hebrews 13.5 and 9 says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore, which we call the immutability of God. God remains unchanging. And yet, even people today, according to life of research in conjunction with Ligonier Ministries in their state of theology, about 40% of professing evangelicals said that God changes, which that's open theism and that's heresy. God doesn't change. He remains the same. He will do and he will act according to who he is and how he's revealed himself. So, yeah, there's a lot here. I mean, you know, even to say as well, Derrick Prince, he believed in the spiritual forces, the reality of spiritual forces operating in the world, the power of demons to cause illness and psychological problems. In his book, They Shall Expel Demons, What You Need to Know About Demons, Your Invisible Enemies, published by Baker Books on page 142, Prince teaches that Christians can be demonized. So in both Derek Prince's Blessing or Curse, you can choose, published by Chosen Books in 1990, They Shall Expel Demons, also published by Chosen in 1998, he taught that deliverance ministry used the power of God to defeat demons. Stephen Mansfield wrote a biography titled Derrick Prince, a biography in 2005. And it tells us on page 203 to 204 of the book that as a pastor, a Broadway tabernacle in Seattle in 1963 to 1964, Prince reached the conclusion that some of the most disturbing problems in his congregational life were the result of demonization of bona fide church members. And he reached the conclusion, Manfield said, that while the spirit of God might live in the spirit of born-again man, the man's body and soul could still be a haunt of demons. There was another man named Charles Craft, and he wrote a book called The Evangelical's Guide to Spiritual Warfare. On page 165, it teaches that Satan has legal rights and that Christians need to name and renounce the specific sins we have committed in order to remove Satan's legal rights over us. And so, we can say that according to these teachers, if we don't follow the magic formula, the incantation to renounce those sins, then we don't break the spells or we can say the legal rights that those demons have over us. So you might have heard like there's a demon behind everything. That's kind of the same idea as I'm as I've been thinking about this. And so also but much the same as the prosperity gospel where you have to confess your faith and just the right way in order to get God to act like act in the way you want like a genie in a bottle. But the difference here is the magic formula of our words are meant to control the demons as if we had any power over that we don't instead of God. This is amazing. Yeah. So now we're going to consider what is wrong with the view of Derrick Prince and why the Bible repeatedly teaches that once a person is born again, the Holy Spirit seals them. Christians can experience demonic oppression and spiritual warfare. but they cannot be demon-possessed. Only unsaved people can. And just so you know, this next little part here is what you're gonna see Doreen and I interacting. We're gonna be wearing different shirts if you watch this on video. This was a conversation that we had previously at another time. We're bringing it in because it really shows what this is about, why this is wrong. And so I'm going to put this in, so this will be now in your earbuds. You'll be seeing it on the screen. And so, yeah. Joining me today to discuss the answer to the question, can Christians be demon-possessed is our brother in Christ, Dave Jenkins, who's the Executive Director of Servants of Grace and the author of books about how to study the Bible. Dave, thanks so much for joining us and for answering this important question. Can Christians be possessed by demons? No, no Christian can be indwelled by a demon because we have been born again. At the moment of our conversion, we are given the Holy Spirit and he comes to indwell us. And so the Holy Spirit lives inside of us and he is helping us to know the truth and God by his grace, through what we call the means of grace. He's using the word that we hear and study and meditate and memorize, and he is taking it and drilling it down deeper and deeper into our lives. There's no way for a Christian to be indwelt by a demon. In Colossians 1.13, Paul says God delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved son. And so salvation brings with it true deliverance and protection from Satan, And in Romans 8.37, Paul says we are overwhelmingly conquerors through Christ. In 1 Corinthians 15.57, he says God gives us the victory. In 2 Corinthians 2.14, he says God will always lead us in triumph. In 1 John 2.13, John says we have overcome the evil one. And in 1 John 4.4, he says that the indwelling Holy Spirit is greater than Satan. So how could anyone affirm these glorious truths and yet believe that demons can and dwell genuine believers? Paul says this, interestingly, in 2 Corinthians 6, 15-16, what harmony has Christ with Belial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has a temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God. Just as God said, I will dwell in them and walk among them and I will be their God and they will be my people. God says that he has delivered us, speaking about believers, from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved son. And so how could anyone affirm these glorious truths and yet believe demons and dwell believers? The answer is we cannot, in Colossians 1.13, from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Lord Jesus. And so there's no way for a believer to be indwelt by demons. In Matthew 12, Christ rebuked those who were following Him just for the sake of witnessing greater signs and miracles. In Matthew 12, 43 through 45, it says, when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through the waterless places seeking rest and does not find it. And then it says, I will return When it comes it will find it unoccupied, swept and put in order and then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself. And they go in and live there and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation. And so instead of focusing on spectacular signs and wonders, Christ addresses their need for salvation. And many people appear, even religious people, they appear to have their lives all in line and in order, and it's all a facade. And Christ knows he sees the true condition of the heart of man. and that they might not have trusted in Christ as Lord and Savior. Their souls are unoccupied, that is, the Holy Spirit does not indwell them. They're open to demonic invasion and they might even have emptied themselves and become a tool and a device and an agent of Satan through automatic writing. And that is wickedness and that is abhorrent to the God of the Bible. And so that cannot be true of those who are indwelt by and whose bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, as we considered from 2 Corinthians 6.16. And according to 1 Peter 1.5, when Christ reigns in a person's life, that person is kept by the power of God. That's the point of Romans, by the way, Romans 8.31-39. It repeatedly, four or five times, tells us we are kept by the power of God. And so, as a result, the evil one does not touch him, as 1 John 5.18 says. And so, lastly, one last thought. When the Holy Spirit inhabits a person, no demon can set up a house as a squatter. And dwelling by demons is evidence of a lack of genuine biblical salvation. So, it's possible for unbelievers to be possessed by demons, but not those who've been indwelt by the Holy Spirit through their faith and their trust in Jesus and the grace and mercy of God in their salvation. But believers can be oppressed, or it's an old-fashioned word, obsessed by demons. So, you could have demons around you causing havoc. That's spiritual warfare, right? That's different than possession. Yeah, exactly. That's why we're to take up the armor of God. And by the way, it's interesting in Ephesians 6, one thing that we often miss about that passage, we always focus on, you know, either praying or whatever, but actually the only reason that we can put on the armor, Paul says in that passage, is that we're in Christ. We're in Him, we're in the Lord. And it's really interesting because that's something that's often missed in teaching on that particular subject, and the language is that we are His, the language of in Christ in Him in the Lord is that we belong to Him. He is ours and we are His. And so that is hugely significant. That means that we can take up the armor of God because we have one who, as the Bible tells us very clearly, he is a warrior and he goes before us and he's already won. We know the victory. We can stand, as 1 Corinthians 15 tells us, you know, in the grace and knowledge of our Lord, which 2 Peter 3.18 tells us to grow in the grace and knowledge of God. And so, all this means, even in 1 Peter 5, verse 6, before he says in verse 7, to cast your cares on the Lord, he says that we're to humble ourselves before, under God's mighty hand, and then as a result of doing that, cast our cares on the Lord. And so in the midst of spiritual warfare, we are in Him, we're in the Lord, we're in Christ, we can trust Him, we're His, He is ours. And so that's that we fight not from a place of defeat, but actually a place of great strength and victory, not because of ourselves, not because we're sufficient, but because Christ is sufficient. And it's Christ in us, Christ through us. It's always about Christ. Um, and so he's we trust him and so that's that's really really good news You know your lord is there to help you in the midst of your anxiety discouragement depression grief bitterness doubt questions and on and on He's going to help you The question is are you going to call on him for that help? That he provides and by the way ephesians one just one more thought The ephesians one is actually one long sentence in the greek And there Paul tells us that the grace of God super abounds to us. It abounds and abounds and abounds. And that doesn't mean that you get to live however you want to live. It means that you're putting your sin to death as Romans 6.11 tells you to consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God through Christ. This is what the Holy Spirit's helping you to do. You do that by putting on Christ, putting on him, putting off the flesh, putting the sin to death through the means of grace with the help of the Holy Spirit. So when you have those thoughts of lust or temptation or discouragement or whatever, read your Bible. Take every thought captive into the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10 5, and the Lord will help you. So now we're going to talk about biblical spiritual warfare. What the Bible says about this. And also what the church has taught about it. So, it's not only important to understand with these issues what the, we've talked about some of the influence that, you know, Derrick Prince had and those kind of things, but it's important always on these topics, not only to understand what the Bible says, but what the church has taught. That's important because we don't have to make up these things. We don't have to make up responses on any of these issues. The church has dealt with these things, especially as we're going to see the Puritans. Spiritual warfare is vitally important as we talk about growing in Christ. After all, as Christians, we've been united to Christ by faith in His name. We've been indwelt by the Spirit, as we just talked about a second ago. We are, as Doreen and I would undoubtedly agree, we see the rise of increasing concern about New Age theology, practice, there's atheism, there's Satanism. There's a growing interest in the occult worldwide. And so the need to understand spiritual warfare has never been greater. And increasingly, though, spiritual warfare is becoming even more confusing to study, likely because of the extreme charismatics and the New Apostolic Reformation, and the different views out there, some of which may be biblical, most of which are not. But what the church has taught on this topic is the classic view of spiritual warfare is defined by repentance, by faith, and obedience to Christ as revealed in Scripture. The classic mode of warfare is evangelism, discipleship, and personal growth. That follows the pattern of Jesus in the desert. So, the textbooks for spiritual warfare in this mode have been Proverbs, the way Jesus addressed moral evil, the teaching of the New Testament epistles. Puritan theologians that wrote extensively. I mean, if you want to have your mind absolutely blown, read somebody like John Owen, you know, read him slowly. But they wrote frequently, they wrote with incredible depth, heart-piercing application on spiritual warfare, and as they wrote about scripture, the devil, human nature, our sin, indwelling sin, all of that, they were alert to the incredible evil and the deceptive strategies of Satan. And at the same time, they made a heart-searching analysis of the human condition. Now, these were not demythologized moderns. They lived in a spirit-filled world. They were well aware of what was happening around them. They were themselves facing spiritual warfare. They saw the combat. They saw the snares of the devil. They saw the schemes of Satan. And so books in print, I'll give you a few, from the Puritans after over 300 years, they include, these are only three, by the way, so don't come at, don't at me on this, because I know there's more. Okay, there's Thomas Brooks' Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices, there's John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Holy War, and William Gurnell's The Christian in Complete Armor. We know that from Scripture, the most complete text that we have in the New Testament that talks about spiritual warfare is Ephesians 6, 10-12. It gives the best explanation of what we can call the classic mode of spiritual warfare. that is, and I'm going to read this here in just a minute, but this text, it tells us about reliance on the power and the protection of God, embracing the word of God, specific obedience, fervent and focused prayer, and the aid of fellow believers. So spiritual warfare against the power of evil is a matter of consistently and repealing, turning from darkness to light in the midst of darkness. Christians fight spiritual warfare by repentance, by faith, and by obedience. And so recognizing the powerful influence of Satan and sin in the human heart, the classic mode pastoral theologians called for biblical sanctification, that is, the putting of our sin to death, repenting of it, confessing it, as we've talked about, and putting our faith and trust in Christ. That's for all of us, every single person. Ephesians 6, 10 through 18 give, I should say, that's for every Christian, just to clarify. Ephesians 6, 10 through 18, it gives the best instruction in the New Testament on spiritual warfare when it says this, Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand, therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. In all circumstances, take up the shield of faith with which you can distinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one, And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints." And so what this text explains is, what is spiritual warfare? It answers this. We also see exhortations, encouragement for instructions for all Christians. His imagery, Paul's imagery here is a sustained portrayal of the Christian life as spiritual warfare using the resources that the Lord has given. He opens up this section in verses 10-13, introducing the armor of God, focusing on the strength that it gives. In fact, the word strong in Ephesians 6-10 It emphasizes that the Christian cannot stand in their own power against supernatural human forces. They must rely on the Lord's own might, which the Lord supplies, we see in Ephesians 6.18 through prayer. Now the word, the Greek word for the phrase whole armor, It refers to the complete equipment of a full bodied, fully armed soldier. Think of it like U.S. Army soldier, a Marine. They're decked out right in gear when they go to combat. This is the same kind of thing that Paul is describing. He's describing a Roman soldier. And that fully-armed Roman soldier consisted of both shields and weapons like those described in Ephesians 6, 16-17. Now Paul's description, it draws on the Old Testament. And yet the terms used also overlap with Roman weaponry, especially the terms for the large door-shaped shield and the short stabbing sword. Visible portraits of such weaponry can be seen online. They can be found on numerous military reliefs throughout the Roman Empire. The word schemes in Ephesians 6.11, it exposes the diabolical origin and the deceitful schemes of those teaching false doctrine. Ephesians 6.12 gives a list of spiritual warfares, authorities, cosmic powers. It gives a sobering analysis of the devil's allies, the spiritual forces of evil that are powerful in their exercise of cosmic powers over present darkness. Now, Scripture makes it clear that the enemy host is no match for the Lord. In Colossians 2.15 and Ephesians 1.19-21, we see that Jesus has disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to opening shame by triumphing over them in him. That is so helpful to unpack that and put the whole topic of spiritual warfare, which is real, which is promised of those of us who are saved. And God gives us what he wants us to do instead of these myths and philosophies, you know, that are made up of their fantasy and they remind me of mysticism, quite frankly. These modern deliverance ministries, it's all kind of, it's very man-centered, you know, I have the power to cast them out and I'm going to use these magic spells and wave my hands. It's very theatrical is what it seems like. And it's also something that a lot of people are charging money for. And I noticed this when people come right out of the new age into Christianity, that there's people kind of waiting to pounce on them. It reminds me of those lawyers that chase ambulances, you know. They chase new Christians out of the new age and they say, here, come to me and I will help deliver the demons that you have from the new age. And so, the people get in that pipeline and it takes them right into hyper charismatic teachings and away from Bible study that's in context. Yeah, exactly. I mean, even in his own teaching in the, they shall expel demons. He, it was like I mentioned at the beginning, he lists the things for the Christian that he calls the minister. And he says, it's a Christian that's to do it to the patient. And then what are those, those things are like humility and repentance. And then at the very, the sixth step, then they can somehow get saved. It's like, wait a minute, what, what are you, what are you even, we're not even talking about Christianity. My Bible in Acts 16.31 says to believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and to be saved. Romans 10.9-17 makes it very clear that we're to believe and confess with our, confess with our mouth and believe with our heart that Jesus Christ died and rose and to believe that in our heart and we will be saved. Romans 10, 17 says, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. So, this, like I was mentioning earlier in your drawing as well, Doreen, it puts the cart before the horse. It says, do these steps, the demons will leave. But we have to ask, I just have to ask this question, really. Where do we see that in the New Testament? You know, when we see Jesus exercising, we'll say He exercised the prerogative of His divinity, which is what He did when He, you know, cast out a demon, like, you know, the demon act, the one in At the tombs, yeah. Yeah, at the tombs, and you know, they were infiltrating and they fell off to the, you know, off the cliff. Right, they went into the pigs. They went into the pigs and then, you know, went away. What was happening there? you know, that was instantaneous. It was a miracle. It demonstrated the power of God. It did not, it was not about, you know, following, Jesus didn't have a formula there. He didn't have some sort of incantation He didn't have a list of, if you do this and you meet his words, Derek Prince's words here, if you meet a certain set of conditions, then you'll be delivered. Jesus said, just go, get out, be gone. And we need to remember that Jesus healed people at a distance and that healing happened like that. It happened immediately. Marylouise Yeah, and there was no repeat deliverances that he did where people like Greg Locke, you know, that you can have this account where you have monthly deliverances. It's you know, like joining a coffee club or something. It's, it's just not biblical. Yeah. So, yeah, this is so important. You know, we see this as we were, I was mentioning earlier, and even with Jesus ministry and the desert facing Satan, what did he, what did he do there, Doreen? Did he, did Jesus tell Satan, you know what, if you, if you, you know, do this, um you know i'll give you a little deal over here right no no jesus jesus just said what did he do during tell us he's just he quoted scripture it is written it is written he went to god's word which was of course jesus's word because the bible is from our triune co-equal co-existent god and And so he used scripture, of course, the devil used scripture twisted back. And that's why we have to be very careful with false teachers who quote the Bible eloquently with false promises, just like was done by the devil in the wilderness. So, as we go back to Ephesians 6, the word, therefore, in Ephesians 6.13, it means that the Christians' enemies, they're supernatural, superhuman spiritual forces. That means that mere incantations, formulas, etc. and so on, they're not going to work. No. That's why everybody has to take up the armor of God. The divine armor and the sword of the Spirit belong to the Lord and to his Messiah, and they're made available for believers. And along with the word stand, Christians and those who are united to Christ are able to withstand the enemy and stand firm. And now in verse 13 of Ephesians 6, Paul portrays Christians as soldiers in a battle line holding fast the enemy's charge. Paul in verse 16 of Ephesians Six, he identifies the whole age as evil days, evil day, and yet the outbreak of the satanic onslaught against Christ's people ebbs and flows throughout this era until the final day when the Lord will finally return to rend the heavens and rescue his people forever. Now, in Ephesians 6, 1-17, it teaches a Christian what it means to stand firm. And here, what he does is he gives a charge to stand in the face of dreaded spiritual enemies because the Lord has not left His people defenseless. They have the complete armor of God from head to toe that consists of the belt, the breastplate, the shoes, the shield, the helmet, and the sword. Now, these are metaphors we need to understand for the spiritual resources given to them in Christ. Namely, the truth, righteousness, gospel, faith, salvation, and the Word of God. That is so important because we are united to Christ by faith, and that's the whole point. This is who we are. We are clothed in this because we are clothed in Christ. And so in verse 14, yeah, and a lot of people say, I have to take the reason that I, I guess I should maybe say this. The reason that I say that that way is because some people think I have to, I have to, this is something I have to do. If it's something that I have to do though, that kind of defeats the, the, the teaching earlier that Paul gave. about we're supposed to trust the Lord. It's something that is already being done for us. How? We're not told. But it is something that is done. It's something that we need to trust the Lord, and he does because it's one of the privileges that we have by virtue of being united in Christ by faith. It's never made sense growing up as a Christian to me. It's never ever made sense since I was a teenager in hearing the teaching. Well, you have to put this on. It's like, that never made sense to me because, you know, this is a privilege, and these are commands. starting from commands rooted in the grace of God, of course, but they're still commands. And so, yes, there's something that we're to do, but this is also because of who we are. And so that kind of idea just never, it never I never got that idea that I'm supposed to put it on. It made more sense to me in my mind, in the way that I think, to see this as something that has already been done by virtue of our union with Christ, and it's a privilege that we get because of that. I don't know, I can take that out. Is that helpful? Yeah, no, it's really helpful. I mean, the Bible teaches, as you've been quoting scripture, that spiritual warfare does occur for Christians, but it's not possession, it's oppression. And so the demons would be around us trying to wreak havoc. And as you So, importantly, reminded us it's all about trusting in God. And you even make the point that spiritual warfare can lead to spiritual growth as well. Yeah, absolutely. And this is a matter Paul is talking about in verse 14, to stand. He urges the Ephesians to withstand the enemy. Don't give in to fear. Don't give in, you know, fear assails its legions. You know, that's why we're a fear of the Lord. You look at Proverbs over and over again, it tells us to fear the Lord. Paul's encouraging his readers to proclaim the gospel in verse 15. In verse 17, we're told about these flaming darts, these burning arrows just designed that were designed to destroy wooden shields and other defenses, but that shield of faith that Paul's talking about is able to extinguish the devil's attacks. And so the spiritual nature of the church's resources are no more plain than in its reliance on the Word of God, which is the only offensive weapon mentioned in the list of this spiritual armor. The Word of God is to be wielded like a sharp two-edged sword in the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, as Hebrews 4.12 tells us. So, now in verses 18-20, Paul's going to talk to us about being constant in prayer. And this section focuses on basically how prayer is one of our main weapons in spiritual warfare. That's why our prayers themselves need to be rooted in the word. We need instruction, that's why the Bible gives it to us, about our prayers so that they're rooted in scripture as well. And so Paul gives four alls here, at all times, with all prayer, with all perseverance, for all the saints. Prayer is even seen in Scripture as a form of worship enabled by the Spirit of God who intercedes on behalf of the person praying. And so, the general character of the believer's prayer life is described in the following way in verse 18. First, all prayer and supplication, that's variety. Second, always, that's the frequency in the spirit that's focusing on submission as we line up with the will of God revealed in scripture. Being watchful focuses on the manner of our prayer. All perseverance focuses on the persistence, continuing to do it. And all saints focuses on the objects. So, we just talked about quite a bit there, but taking it in a little bit more practical way, we're seeing the rise of technology, we've mentioned the rise of New Age and atheism and every other ism under the sun. We need to know as Christians that God is with us, that He is there, that He is going to help us. And so the reality of what we've already seen and described in Ephesians 6, 10-18, it should make us feel maybe a little bit uncomfortable as Christians. Because if you're anything like me, and I don't know about you, Doreen, I can tend to rely too much on myself. And that's where we find defeat. When Christ doesn't call us to self-sufficiency, he calls us to trust his law of sufficiency. He's sufficient in every single way. So, you know, our culture is moving this direction with secular philosophy, and so we need to trust in our all-sufficient God. We need to trust in the all-sufficient word that tells us about our all-sufficient Savior. That's right. So that we can understand the role of spiritual warfare in spiritual growth. Absolutely. The Bible does tell us that Jesus empowered the disciples for a season to cast out demons. We also see that in Luke, there's a man who John got upset about because he wasn't part of the disciples who was casting out demons. And then of course, we see in Acts 16 that Paul casts out the serpent demon out of the girl who's a psychic. So, we do see that in the Gospels and then in Acts, but in the early church epistles, there's no instructions to exercise demons. No one in the epistles of the New Testament says, oh, here's your steps to cast out demons. That's one of the apostolic gifts that disappeared. with, you know, with the early church. So, this is not something that we're to aspire to. When Jesus said, greater things can you do, he's not talking about that we can be casting out demons, just like, you know, Jesus also empowered the disciples to raise the dead. we can't do that to heal people. You might say there's healers, but not like we saw at that time. That was just the introduction of the church, and now there's no need for that anymore. There's no more apostles, the apostolic gifts gone away, and Jesus is who we rely on. for help with spiritual warfare. I do want to give a practical tip. Michael and I were, we were so oppressed with spiritual warfare when we first came out of the new age in 2017. I mean, I'm talking insomnia where we could not sleep. It was just awful. And so what we found was playing audios of the Bible in the house and as we're falling asleep, including it really, it, it gave us relief. And it reminded us of Jesus saying it is written to Satan. And also just to saturate your mind with the Bible. When you listen to it, you hear things that you might not notice reading it. And so every night since 2017, we listened to one whole book of the Bible. And it's been very helpful in keeping peace And, you know, of course, that's part of putting on the whole armor of God is the word. And so, I just want to recommend this to people. There's a free ESV audio Bible app that you can get in the Apple store. I'm not sure about the other stores like Google Play, but if you have Apple products, you can go to ESV Bible app and download that for free and it's got audio and that's what we listen to every single night. That's, that's really wonderful. And you bring out such a good point about all of that, because, you know, what we, we, you know, here's a, here's another, you know, 10 cent word for you. Normative, God's normative, the normative way that God works. And as we're talking about miracles and healing and You know deem possession everything what we have to understand is these things they they did not always happen ever that's one of the arguments that the other side the hyper charismatic make. They claim that these things are normative meaning that they always happen and so they should continue to happen today. Now, well, yeah, the disciples were not able to cast out a demon and Jesus said it required a lot of prayer and fasting and he did it instantly. Yeah. And now, you know, we're not saying or suggesting that God can't, we're not limiting the almighty power of God. That would be heresy. We have to say that today because people who hear what I just said and what you said as well, what they hear is, well, you just limited the power of God to do whatever He can do. No. God can do whatever He's going to do. But we have to also admit that God has revealed His will in the Word And the Bible is the final authority for faith and practice. It's for our life and godliness, as 2 Peter very clearly tells us. And so God's normative way of doing things has never been to necessarily heal somebody. It's never been to, you know, cast out a demon. to do a miracle, which, by the way, a miracle is God intervening in human history. The greatest miracle is that He sent His Son under the sentence of death to pay the penalty that we justly deserve and to die and to be buried and to rise. That's the greatest miracle. What even the disciples missed, what they missed in the Gospels was that. They missed the gifts and the blessings. and the religious leaders understood when Jesus did a miracle, he was performing the works of God. He was acting as God. That's why Jesus said seven times in John's gospel, I am, which is a reference to Exodus 3.14, I am who I am. You know, the Lord God, Yahweh, you know, the coveted name of God. And so, you know, God never normatively performed miracles and signs and wonders. And so, you know, unfortunately, that argument biblically doesn't square with how God sovereignly and in His providence has always worked. But that doesn't minimize the fact that God could heal somebody. Nobody is saying that. Nobody. God could do whatever He's going to do. We can pray to that end, but at the end of the day, we have to trust the Lord. And so, if somebody doesn't get healed, if they don't, you know, get the help that they need, that doesn't mean that God is bad. It doesn't mean that, you know, it means the answer that the church has given is instead that, you know, the problem of evil, it begins with us. It began with Adam. And it continues on because we live in a post-fall world. We're sinners by nature and by choice. And so the blame doesn't rest on God. God is holy. He is just. He's good. He's perfect in all of his ways. God will always act in accordance with his revealed will as described in his word. And God is, we can say as well, just one last thought here. God, on this particular point, God will always act consistently and He will always act coherently, that is, with how He has revealed Himself in His Word. And that is actually, if you really think about it, dear Christian, that is actually the most encouraging thing in the world. It's the most comforting thing in the world, that the purposes and the plans and the designs of God They cannot be defeated. God will always act in accord with his word. So such an encouragement. It is. And so be cautious with who you listen to and compare everything to scripture as the Bereans did when they were listening to Paul. You see this in Acts 17 11. And it's so important to not be seduced by this old time English accent, you know, wise teacher. If you need that accent, go listen to Martin Lloyd-Jones. Martin Lloyd-Jones is very solid and he's got the same sort of cadence and that kind of, you know, very elegant man. He was a medical doctor too, in addition to being a theologian. So his books are great. So Martin Lloyd-Jones would be your alternative if you need that kind of a father figure in your life. So just one maybe last couple thoughts here. You know, the only way to fight against Satan and his minions and sin in our life and dwelling sin as Christians in our lives is through the classic view of spiritual warfare. Repentance, faith, and obedience joined with the classic mode of warfare, evangelism, discipleship, and personal growth. What we're talking about, what we've been talking about now is that our view of sanctification is going, that is our growth in the grace of God because we've been united to Christ, it's going to affect our view of spiritual warfare. And the reality of the war in which we are engaged in You can see it in Pilgrim's Progress, you can read about it there in that allegory, but you can even read about it even more vividly in the Bible. That word is real. And yet so is the tools that the Lord has given his children. And so we who have been united to Christ in his name are to stand firm in the grace of God, because of the work of Christ. Satan is a defeated foe because of Christ. Jesus has disarmed the forces of Satan through his death, burial, and resurrection. Colossians 2, 13-15 says, And you who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your faith, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses. By counseling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands, this he set aside, nailing it to a cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open in shame by triumphing over them in him." That's good news for you and I. In fact, when Jesus preached his first sermon in Luke four, he opened the scroll And he preached in Isaiah 61, and he said that he came to set the captives free. Luke 19 10 tells us that Jesus came to seek and to save the lost. That's good news. That's news that you and I need in the midst of this war. It's a real war. It's not a pretend war. It's not something that's made up. It's a real war. And because of Christ, we have already won the war. The war has already been won before it even began. Praise the Lord. That is just, just let that, let that actually, what I just said there, let that really hit you. Because, you know, you might be facing an incredible amount of discouragement and anxiety. You might be facing anxiety and discouragement. You might be facing strife in your marriage and in your relationships at church or online with other people. And think about what Paul just said. He nailed it. your trespasses to cross, the record of debt that stood against it with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to a cross. And he disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame by triumphing over them on the cross." That means because of what Jesus has done, you can rest in who you are, because of who you belong to, and because of that you can stand firm. Because your Savior, your Lord, your King, He stands at the ready. Hebrews 4, 15, 16 tell us that He is a very present help in time of need. This One who is our High Priest, our Intercessor, our Mediator, our Advocate. He does all of these things, and it's we don't deserve any of them. And yet, He provides the help that He does, and He provides the help of the spirit, the paraclete that Jesus talks about in John 15 and 16, the one who's going to come alongside of us. He does all of this to show us, hear me when I say this, He does all of this to show you how deep, how marvelous, how majestic the endless treasure of the, as Flavel said, of the ocean of the love of God in Christ. And so, dear Christian, let that hit you again and again and again and again in the midst of all the things of life. Remember, you are united to Christ by faith in His name. You are held secure in the love of God, in the love of your Savior, who completed it all, who does it all because of His love for you. That is such an amazing thing. Really, the only response to that is to sing amazing grace like Newton. That is who we once were. We were once wretches and beggars, as Luther said, in need of God's grace, and God has given us this amazing, wonderful, beautiful grace. And so how dare men like Derek Prince and how dare men like those in the New Apostolic Reformation, how dare they cheapen the grace of God? How dare they cheapen the costly grace of God in Christ? And how dare anybody settle for a cheap substitute? This was a costly grace that God gave us. We have been purchased at the cost, bought out from the slave market of sin, and brought into the family of God, and that is all by That's what Jonah 2.9 says, that salvation is of the Lord. That's what it is. Martin Lloyd-Jones, you quoted earlier, he said that there's grace at the beginning, grace at the middle, grace at the end, wondrous grace. Grace is a matter not of contention. Grace is a matter of worship. And the only response to this, for us who are united by Christ in His name, should be to worship Him and to sing that great hymn, Amazing Grace. Yep, absolutely. Convincing everyone to watch out for Derek Prince's teachings, particularly about deliverance. This is not something that we need and it could cause a stumbling block to someone. Maybe you're watching this or listening to this and you wonder, what do I do now? You might be struggling and you've heard this. Maybe you've been impacted by Prince or those who follow Wagner's teaching and you wonder, what do I do? Listen to this again. Listen to it again. Listen to it again. Let the truth of Scripture be that sword that pierces through the fog, that opens your eyes, that takes you away from deception, and that shows you the glories of Christ. And get yourself away. from men like Derrick Prince. Get yourself away from men who follow John Wimmer and Peter Wagner. There's many of them. Even, even, you know, we're coming up, we'll have already come across the National Day of Prayer. And even there, this view is so prevalent in our culture today of spiritual warfare. We got to be, we got to be warned. We got to remember that Christ is enough and he always will be. And His Word is enough, and His Word tells us that. So, all right. Well, I've said enough for now on this, but I just want to thank you guys for listening to this. I know for some of you, this is probably really hard, especially if you're stuck in this, but the Scripture is a sword, but God also uses that sword to bring conviction. And with conviction, He brings hope. And there is so much hope in Christ. There is so much hope revealed in Scripture. Thank you very much, Dave. Thank you for listening to the Equipping You and Grace podcast. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe, rate us on the app, and share this with your friends and family on social media. 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