The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, oh there. We go everybody welcome to the show It's me Matt slick if you want you give me a call as usual the number is eight seven seven two zero seven Two two seven six now. I'm using the new headset right now. I'm gonna make sure everything's okay Because people have complained about the noise level or the sound level so it's a brand new set and it's hooked up hopefully Everything's good. Everything sounds good. I'm hoping they can give me some feedback. And that'll be that. All right. Now, if you want to give me a call, as usual, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. And if you are interested in emailing me, you can do that as well. It's easy. Just dial a number. I mean, dial a number. Just put the email address in as info at karm.org and put in the subject line, radio comment or radio question, and everything should be fine. alright so making sure I'm not sure what's going on there should have worked the uh... comrex I mean that comrex is fine alright so I released an article today and I'm prepping for another article which is why I'm researching metaphor of all things believe it or not so I went and did this research, so it's really interesting. Let's see. And I wanted to know what kind of metaphors are used by Jesus himself and what he says about himself. A metaphor is a figure of speech that's used as a term or a phrase. Like Jesus is called the door. It's a metaphor. He's the door. He's the way. Things like this. This is a metaphoric language. And I found quite a few I put in 12 that Jesus used of himself. He said he's the Alpha and Omega The bread of life bridegroom the door the Good Shepherd light of the world living water The rock things like that and then I did research on what the Apostles called Jesus metaphorically what metaphors that they use and And so advocate, cornerstone, firstfruits of the resurrection, firstborn of all creation, foundation, king of kings, the rock, things like this. And then, just to really kind of round it off, I did some research on Old Testament examination, or Old Testament metaphoric use of Christ. So, anointed king, and I found this in Isaiah 42, and fulfillment in John 8, and things like this. He's the bronze serpent, the Passover lamb, the prophet like Moses. Just various things, you know, the rock that gives water. And so, I found, I think, let's see, 12, 12, 24, and then seven. So I found quite a few. All right. Found thirty one. Now, why am I talking about this? Because. Because in John, chapter six, in John, chapter six, there's the issue of. OK, that explains it that way. Rumble in Georgia or six. Jesus says he's the bread. What does it mean when he says he's the bread? How is he referencing that? And so I'm going through this, looking at the issue of the bread. Because the Catholics and Orthodox will say that the bread is his body, which is literal, and the blood is literally, the wine is literally his blood. And so what I did was, I went through it, I haven't finished it yet, but I'm going through looking and arriving at a contextual analysis. And it's really interesting because he is speaking symbolically. It is so clear that he's doing that symbolically. It's not literal bread that came out of heaven, of course, but he's referring to himself as the bread that came out of heaven. And it's in reference to something that the Jews had said earlier about him, about Jesus talking about the food that they came to eat, and that you can eat. He gives true food. So I'm going to do some more research on it, and I think I've got a good argument that Jesus was just speaking metaphorically, and not literally, as they like to say. Now why is that important? because when they worship the bread after it's been consecrated, it's metaphor is not literal, they then are committing adultery. So there you go, there's that information. And let's get to Patrick from North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You are on the air. Oh, hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. So what do you got, man? What's up? OK, now, It takes two people to do a water baptism, correct? The one doing it? The one being baptized, yes. Uh-huh. Okay, so which person is following the Matthew 28, 19 command? Which one of the people? What do you mean, which one's following the command? They both are. Well, no, because The command is, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptizing them. So one person is making a disciple, the other person is becoming a disciple. So would it be true that the one giving the baptism is following the command? Yeah, yeah, in that sense, yes. OK, what about it? Well, a lot of people think that water baptism is when you go down in the water You know, you die and then you come up out of the water. But that wouldn't make sense if the person giving the baptism is doing that, not the not the person getting baptized. In Acts chapter 8, at the end of the chapter, the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip both go down into the water. They both come up out of the water. So that necessitates... I'm not sure. I'm trying to follow you here. But Philip did not baptize him in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yeah, he did. That's how it's done. In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But it doesn't say that in scripture in Acts 8. It just says they both went down and he got baptized. But my main point is I don't believe in water baptism. I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And the question I asked you makes sense. It takes two people to do a water baptism and only one person is following the command. Wow. Look, Patrick, you've failed to see what the Scriptures teach about the issue of baptism in the water and the application of it. And so it says in Acts 10, 44 through 48, the Holy Spirit fell upon the people, et cetera. The gift of the Holy Spirit was there. And Peter says, no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized. So that is the water baptism that's taught in Acts chapter 10. That's what's going on. And the formula is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's how you do it. no because in uh... at cornelius' house with peter when he said what stops these men from getting water he was acting like a jew so he was bringing back the old custom ceremonial washing no he wasn't he gave them he gave them a ceremonial washing not a believers bath Patrick, Patrick. No, he wasn't. You apparently have the inability to be able to read the text and believe the text is clearly teaching. That's what it says. They got water to be baptized. But in Galatians 2.14, Paul opposes Peter for that reason, because Peter was wrong when he water baptized them. And that's why Paul opposed Peter. Okay, we're just gonna move along. Patrick, we've had so many conversations over the years, and I'm sorry, but ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who don't know, we've talked, I can't tell you how many times, countless times, in different venues, on radio, in different chat rooms, and things like this, and Patrick refuses to submit to the word of God in this issue, and it just, you know, we're not gonna get anywhere. All right, so let's, next longest waiting person is Samuel from Kentucky. Samuel, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, how you doing there? We spoke a few times in advance. I really like your content, what you do. Good. Yeah. So my, my question, my, my question is, um, uh, and you've talked about this a few times on your website, you know, it's kind of a, I'm a topic when it comes down to atheists. Um, and it's more so figuring out the best way to approach the audience. And I'm, and I'm very bold like you as well, you know, which they don't like and that's, and that's fine. I really don't care, but the truth is the truth. So my whole thing is, when you come across the common argument of God being all-powerful, all-knowing, you know, the thing, and then when it comes up to the concept of free will, is the idea of free will based on, and it could be both, is it based on the fact that God knows all, and he knows what we're going to do every second of the day based on our choices, or is it more so God knows all because he knows our nature. And what we choose is still free will because we chose to do it. That doesn't mean God chose to do it because he didn't choose anything. He just, we have the ability to choose. So is it more so, is it all knowing based on precision and absolute what we're going to do? Or is it more so based on our nature and him knowing our nature that we have the ability to choose left or right or wherever we want to go? All right, so this is a difficult question to answer without kind of slowly getting into stuff, okay? So, okay, so we're talking about the issue of God's foreknowledge and why he knows things, and theologians have discussed this. What's the reason that God knows all things? Now, it's not that they are saying that they have it all figured out, but let's just work, and here's an illustration I'd give. So you take a piece of paper, and the paper is white, there's nothing on it, no lines. The whiteness represents nothing. There's nothingness, there's nothing there. In the middle though, however, is a dot. That dot represents God. And so God is the only thing existing this is before the universe is made You take a pencil and you just do a squiggly line up the dot do 50 squiggly lines Outwards to the end the edge of the paper in different directions each one of those quickly squiggly lines is Something God knows about how the universe is going to behave in every detail Now there could be a million squiggly lines, but we'll just use 50. So these squiggly lines just represent a potentiality of a universe with how God interacts, makes things work and not work, and he knows everything that will occur on that line because it can't exist at this point. it only exists in the mind of God. Each one of these potentialities exists only in the mind of God. They're not actualized. So let's say I have 50, we could have 100, we could have 1,000, it doesn't matter. So then, if we were to, any line that's a potential, and we're to say, okay, in this line, we're just focused down, and there's this guy making choices. The only reason he could make choices on that line, which isn't even existing yet, it's just a potentiality of what God would know. The only way he could make any choice is if God actualized that line, that particular event, series of events. And everything on that line and every area is known by God because God knows all things, actual as well as potential. And so when we get back from the break, we'll talk a little bit more about this. Okay, so hold on, okay, buddy? And we'll talk about this. Hey folks, be right back after these messages. If you want, give me a call, 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live! Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. The number is 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with Sam from Kentucky. You still there? I'm here. OK. So let me continue with this analogy. We're almost done. The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how many lines are drawn, each one represents what God knows and could happen in any set of circumstances in the universe. He brings into existence one of them. That's how, one of the theories is, that's how he knows. Because he knows everything, because he relates to time differently than we do. And since he relates to time differently than we do, then he's able to, well, let's just say, know exactly whatever potentiality would, different potentialities and combinations of things would exist in his own mind, and he would just choose which one's gonna be. And in that line, we can have free will. Because the sovereignty of God is such that we can't have free will as independent of God. Now let me explain something else. So, there's a doctrine. called aseity. So God is ase, ase. He's ase because he has aseity. What that means is that God, by nature, is non-contingent. He is not dependent on anything at all. Everything that he knows is what he knows because he's God. He has all knowledge about himself. His aseity means that he doesn't depend on anything, and the characteristics of his nature don't depend on anything except for him. I mean, that's part of what he is. One of his attributes is omniscience, that he knows all things. So we can't say that omniscience is not part of God. It's part of his nature. He just knows all things. Now, here's a, I'm gonna see if I can word this right. If God, and I'll exaggerate, if God looks into the future to learn something, then his knowledge depends on something outside of himself. And that would violate the consistency between his omniscience and his aseity. If, on the other hand, as Molinists and the issue of logical progression and logical and temporal knowledge and things like this, we'll get into all that. If they say that he just knows what free will choices are going to be in all Potentialities and that that knowledge is eternal then he's they're still saying To some degree that the knowledge that he has of them is of what they would do counterfactually in different situations, then that would still mean his knowledge is dependent in some part upon the foreseen events and choices. And that would also risk the issue of his aseity related to his omniscience. So it makes more sense to say that his knowledge is part of his eternal knowledge of himself and all potentialities that he can imagine and think of. And it's not dependent on anything foreseen because he doesn't have to create anything. And the actuality of a situation doesn't depend, excuse me, the actuality of something does depend on him, but the knowledge doesn't depend on externals. This is hard to explain, but I hope that makes sense. No, it does. I mean, because I have the conversations with a lot of folks and and uh and and their whole idea is you know they'll create like the simplistic argument of well guys all knowing he understands what i'm going to do then i've been condemned since birth and i'm like well there wouldn't be an option for you to recuse condemnation if that was the case so it's more so me understanding like you know it it seems more local you know god is dot in the center and he's kind of making the spider web of all these potentialities you know it's it's more so because he knows of all it's well one of those you're going to do you know it i think one of these you're going to end up picking this why i was asked like is it more so precise like it's just one line and you're going to absolutely do this one thing Or is it the plethora of ideas that exist? And because of the nature of human beings and how we are, there's nothing that God is missing within these scribbles. You know, one of these is going to fit. There's nothing outside of that that's, you know, that's going to be new under the sun for God. Like one of these you're going to do because I know how you operate, you know, but that's why I was asked, is it more so precise or is it more so optional? You know, because, We know everything that's there. Yes. And hold on, I'm going to cough. I'm dealing with a little bit of chest congestion. So you see this. you're on the right track, and I hope I am too. This is a tough one. This is what I've been thinking about for years, this dot-in-the-middle illustration, swiggly line. I like what you say, the spider web of potentialities that God just knows. And then there's questions about those things. So I like to think about these things. I like to think and wonder about them and see if I can Think how God works and one time I got close. I think I got close But then I heard a sound in my head and I woke up three days later You know trying to figure out God it didn't quite work out for me. Mm-hmm, but you know, this is a tough stuff Right Yeah, yeah, and that's where I'd be and that's why I juggled because it's an FYI this doesn't have me juggle away from God whatsoever I ask questions because as we should and there's just more so to understand cuz it's like well I God knows I'm having this conversation. People dig that deep. I'm like, well, I'm talking to you, not you, but I'm talking to the atheist. I'm like, well, would God know that you're dismissing him right now? Do you already know the outcome based on what you're doing, or is it based on the potential that we have? Because there isn't anything outside of choice that God is not familiar with because of the choices that exist overall. God knows that. You know, I don't, it would be hard for me to, it would be hard for me to accept the idea that, and understand you understand this from the womb, but it would be hard for me to understand and be like, well, God knows this baby who's born is going to be a hundred percent condemned. And there's not going to be any outcome or option that this person can choose. Well, it's like, well, well, cause God already knows the choices. Well, there's no, there's no option for them not to do it. I'm confused on that. And that would be kind of strange. I don't see God operating that way. Well, let's throw some more monkey wrenches into this, okay? So God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go, Proverbs 21. He can do that. Verse 1 or 21, I've got a lot of verses in my head I could have mixed up sometime. Let me go and check. I always want to remember these things right. And yeah, 21-1. And so he does that, but here's another thing. Here's another thing. Paul the Apostle is a good example. In Acts chapter 9, does God know how to bring people to faith? Yeah, he does. He knows what's necessary because he knows all things. He knows how to bring anybody to the faith. I mean, he knocked Paul the Apostle off his horse with a bright light and a voice out of the sky. And that's what it took for Paul. Well, what about you? What about me? What about the neighbor next door? What about the hardcore atheist? Can God reach him? Of course he can. All God's got to do is show his glory to him. And then the guy's on the ground. for me, Lord, you know, and all this stuff. So here's the question, why doesn't he? Why doesn't he do it? And because he can. So then we've got this question of, okay, so in Adam, everybody dies, and that means they're all on the way to hell, and you know what God does is choose people out of that group to save, and he interacts with those, and does stuff for them. Oh, it gets hard. Hey, man, hold on, we've got another break, okay? Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, sorry, we're having fun. Like I say sometimes we we we talk in that in a chat room and So I was I was joking around and I was saying to some people I cleaned out my my pantry I started three days ago to me three days to do it and some cupboard work and I mean just you've been in the house 20 years I found a can that was nine years past and just past expiration. Just one. I mean, I found a few that were a few years, but one that was nine. And I was saying that I got a friend named Bill. So I was going to give it to Bill and watch him eat it, see what happens. Anyway, we're having fun in the chat and get back on with Sam from Kentucky. All right, Sam, you still there, buddy? All right, so I know we've talked a lot about this. This is a topic I've had discussions with atheists and others and Christians and stuff a lot. And people, they want to say that it's not compatible with human free will and God's sovereignty. If God knows what we're going to do, then we don't have free will because we can't change our choices when it comes time to make a choice. Because God knows we're gonna choose it so it's set because he knows we're gonna do it But they make the mistake of thinking that his knowledge is what causes it, but that's not the case So they make a category error and they mess up So we had this kind of discussion many times Many many times so anyway, you know, yeah Yeah, anyway I mean it's just more so for me. It's always the approach right? It's always You know, like how do we present? these ideas or these arguments, because part of my mind is like, well, you know, like I, you know, me seeing within the scripture, you know, God teaches that, you know, it shows that God doesn't change, but it's like, at the same time, it's, it's like, well, are his plans, are the plans that God made, are they always fixed? And in the midst of knowing that free will choices has to determine the flexibility of the future at some point, based on what we do. And it's just more so of, okay, does this, and it's going back to the original, like, okay, does God know that precise choice from the beginning? Or is it, again, like we said, is it this plethora of spiderwebs or this, you know, these probabilities and possibilities that nothing outside of these exists. It's just these. which is why god knows everything and it's just whatever one we choose to do and that's what makes the all-knowing part true not necessarily you know there's just one line every one line is the exact answer every single time that's what i think that's why i think i think it is the plethora feels like it's a plethora it wouldn't make it wouldn't make any sense for it to be anything outside of that to me simply because it it doesn't take away the free will of choice but it It would make me question the overall, well, you know, why condemn? Or, you know, it's more so the idea of why condemn the individual that, you know, God understands it's the only option, but yet we have, everyone has the option to redeem themselves as all men of sin and fall short of God. So it's like, okay, well, we should all have the option to repent and be better. And it's more so like, well, God knows this person is not going to repent. So they, I know what's going to happen with them, so next person. I don't really see it being that way, particularly. I see it being the options and what you brought up. So yeah, that's, it seems to be it. And I think it's going to be like a forever conversation, but I think, I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I think it's more so that way. I don't think it's, it would seem like, it would seem like God has a lot more control outside of the free world realm, even though he's not making that choice, but he already knows it. And it's like, well, That would be a little different. I don't think it's that way. Me personally, I don't think. It seems like you don't need this, so you have to forget. Well, now think about this. Okay, we had nobody waiting, so this is a good conversation. Now think about this, the word ordination. God-ordained so it in one of these lines and we take a super good microscope. We look down that line and we can see a guy walking And he comes to a sidewalk left or right You make a choice and so we can watch that choice it's a free will choice right and he does that but it can only be made if God is the Ultimate cause of all things and that he made a universe the galaxy the planet etc. And that's why he's there and so the choice that he makes is a part of the plan of God. So every choice we make is worked after the counsel of God's will, Ephesians 1.11. This is how we say He ordains everything, even our free will choices. Well, people sometimes say, well, then you're saying He causes them. Well, He can if He wants. He can do what He wants. He can work into our heart and mind. He can can do things and cause us to believe something. He opened the mind of Lydia to believe the words spoken by Paul in Acts 16.14. In Luke 24.45, Jesus opened the mind of the people to believe the things that he was teaching and speaking on as Scripture. So he can do this stuff to us. He moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go, Proverbs 21.1. So he is in control. And the thing that gets me is, well then why doesn't he work this into everybody? And that's a question that I have been wrestling with a long time. Because he can bring anybody to the faith that he desires. Why doesn't he? In fact, if he wants all to be saved in 1 Timothy 2.4 and 2 Peter 3.9, why is it then he speaks in parables according to Mark 4.10-12, which he says is so they'll not be forgiven. Well, why? Well, here's another illustration to throw something out. There's a prison with a thousand men in it and every one of these prisoners is guilty and every one of them belongs condemned. No doubt. And so a really powerful guy who can satisfy the law and pay the penalty and the price for their crimes goes in to the prison and picks, let's just say, a hundred people. He picks them because whatever reason. So is he not good for not picking more? Or is he good for picking those? He didn't have to do anything because they all belong where they're going. That's the condemnation representation at Adam that we all die at Adam. First, go to 1522 and Romans 518 and Romans 519. And so for God, like this guy to go into the prison and then does what's necessary to redeem just those, that's his business. And that's the action of his grace. And he can do what he wants. So this is an illustration. But he grants that we have faith, Leviticus 1.29, grants us repentance, 2 Timothy 2.25. And it says, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed, Acts 13.48. And 2 Thessalonians 2.13 says, he has chosen us from the beginning for salvation. All right. Well, here's a question. Why doesn't he choose more? I don't know. And all these questions bug me. And these are the questions I can't answer. I can't figure out. That's why I said, you know, a while back, I got close. My brain went, you know, and it's not working. So these are questions I think about. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. I think I got a normal come back on. I have a lot of deep questions, typically, you know, and I feel like people with a mind like yours, I feel like it's, you know, so I would definitely take up everybody else's time, but I wouldn't definitely get this question out the way today, but that was how I was looking at things. I was talking to, I have a five-year-old daughter, and it was interesting, thank you, and my wife gave her the option of $100 or a big bowl of ice cream. And I told her, we're just a record and that but that but that but that concept similar to what my question is what we're talking about a mike while we know that you could be ice cream over the hundred dollars and and it goes back to like what did i know overall because of the nature of this child what she was going to pick or was it for certain that salute you know it and i have to look at it and i think that that would go I am so glad you brought that up. Okay, now I gotta talk about this, okay? So I ask people, what's free will? And they give me different answers. And I'll say, well, free will is the ability to make a choice consistent with your nature. Because that definition includes God. So if God, okay, it's been an adjustment there on the audio. Consistent with your nature, because, see, that your daughter, the reason she chose ice cream over $100 is in her nature. She's not mature enough, wise enough, understanding enough to know the relationship. She's gonna, hey, ice cream! You know, and that's it, that's good, and that's fine. It is consistent with a five-year-old understanding of things. So free will, she made a free will choice, is consistent with her nature. And just like God, the same thing. He can't choose to do evil. He can only choose that which is consistent with his nature, and he's holy. And so here's a question then, in light of that, what does the Bible say is the nature of the unbeliever? because his choices can only be consistent with his nature. And the Bible says, I can quote the addresses, but I'll just skip them for now. He's a slave of sin, doesn't do any good, doesn't seek for God, heart's desperately wicked, deceitful, cannot receive spiritual things. So this is why the Bible says he has to be granted faith and granted repentance. Well, my question is, and this is what bugs me, and I've asked God and I've prayed about it, said, well, God, how come you're not saving more? And that's just the question I ask. And when I ask it, I'm careful to ask it. I'm not complaining. Why not more, Lord, than my place? You know, I like to say, as my friend Bill McKeever said, we are in sales, not production. So, so many questions. That's good. That's good. And you know, and I know, and I feel like... We've got to go. There's a break. There's a break, buddy. We'll get another call or two. Why don't you call back in a few minutes, okay? We'll get back in line. We'll talk again, okay? There's a lot of good stuff. We'll do. Thanks. All right, man. Hey, God bless. Call back. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is easy, 877-207-2276. You can also send me an email, that's easy to do as well. and that's info at karm.org, info at C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and put in a subject line, radio comment, or radio question, something like that. All right, let's get on the air with John from Ohio. Hey, John, welcome, man. You're on the air. John? Hello. Hello. How are you doing, man? I'm sorry, I just wanted to see who I was with. My name's Tom, not John. I'm sorry about that. Oh, that's okay. uh... what i was uh... listening to you in the uh... gentleman previous i didn't get everything because i just came in from work uh... but my uh... my point of view what i've seen in this is that uh... that you know he uses everybody good and bad you know and to to for his for his good for his you know it's for his glory yep so that's why i think he just uses And, you know, even though you're reaching out there, you know, as a Christian, reaching out to these people, that's what you're supposed to do. He wants you to grow like that and build you like a, what do you call a, he says it's like some kind of perfect gem. So I just, that's my perspective on it. I cut in, I came in in the middle of this, so I don't know if you've probably heard that. It's a really good conversation and I love having this convo because, for one, it helps me get practiced in articulating ideas. And the other is it shows people I don't have all the answers, and I certainly don't, and that there are theologians out there and they wonder about it and they ask questions. And yet the scriptures are what teaches us these things. And the scriptures teach about the sovereignty of God. And I've got lots of verses about it. And yet at the same time we're free. You know, it just blows me away. How does it all work? And I don't know. But I know that God is beyond us. God makes sense of it. God's the one who knows. And so though I try it with my feeble mind to figure it out, he's already got it all worked out. Even my feeble attempt to figure out what he's doing was already figured out by him a long time ago about me, you know, ordaining that I would think about it. It's like, well, okay, getting a headache now, you know? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's why you're there. I mean, you have the minute. Sure. If not, there was a At church, I've been trying to, it's been going through my head too, is did Christ, did Christ the flesh, knowing the generations all the way back to fix the problem of sin at the point where the third son, Shem, am I right? Okay. Uh, uh, Adam and Eve, Eve had, uh, there was a shim was the third. Okay. Oh, Adam. Oh, okay. Yeah. Quick. I'm sorry. I must've got the wrong. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. He was the only one that he was next. Cause you know, Kane was gone. He was, yeah. He, he ain't going to have no more, you know, his seed is, So what I'm saying is, did he correct everything by putting in it? Was it possible that he had put the start of Jesus Christ, the flesh of Jesus Christ, to come? Because eventually Christ comes with Mary. you see where i'm going we've got you follow kind of all this generation of people all the way down didn't keep that in line because he hadn't and i don't know if you've seen it on uh... and i don't know how important it was right wrong this but uh... the he's right version against the new key james they took even out of uh... uh... because uh... exodus four three or where he says, even my only son. access 4.3. I don't know about that verse, throw it to the ground, access 4.3. So this topic is an interesting one, and I try and find ways to illustrate it for people so that it can make more sense to them. Not that I've got the only way to understand it, but I do try. That makes sense. Yeah. I'm going through it right now. That's the same thing. Cause it looks like it's there, but then you don't, you know, until you really break it down and you follow it all the way back. I mean, what's that generation was he did, did he do it there at that point? Remember he said, he says, he says something in a beginning to correct the correct sin. Was it started there or was it started at the way Christ was born? Or, you know, conceived, not conceived. Okay, I'm not quite following you at this point, but this issue of ordination, predestination, causation, different levels, it's something that Christians have wrestled with, and the ability to understand concepts can have varying reasons they can or can't. IQ, training, education, combination of all of those things. And some people get greater concepts than others can get. And it doesn't mean they're right or wrong. It's just this discussion goes on and on and on throughout the years. And it's not done yet. It's going to continue to go. It's just the way it is. It's going to continue. And I try and figure it out because people ask me questions. Yes, so many millions of people have been through this probably already, and it just hasn't come out to prove... it hasn't come out yet. We have the answer, you know? Well, rest in the mind of God, and He has told us certain things in Scripture about stuff and His sovereignty, and that's it. So, a lot there. All right? I thank you for your help. Sure, man. All right, buddy. God bless. All right. So in light of that conversation, we have nobody waiting right now. There's some interesting verses in Job 37, 13, it says, whatever for whether for creation, excuse me, correction or for his world or for loving kindness, he causes it to happen. Proverbs, excuse me, man, Psalm 135, six, whatever the Lord pleases, he does in heaven and earth. Proverbs 16, one, the plans of the heart belong to man. But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord. uh... proverbs sixteen thirty-three the law is cast into the lap but it's every decision is from the lord you know for thirty five uh... all the happiness of the earth are accounted as nothing but he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth jeremiah ten twenty three i know lord that a man's way is not in himself nor is it in a man who walked to direct his steps cities versus like this And I go, OK, that's what it says. I'm going to try and figure it out. And so I have these discussions with people. And what I try and do is develop illustrations, like the piece of paper, white, you know, piece of paper with little squiggly lines, to break things down in such a way that people can get these concepts. Sometimes it works really well, and sometimes it doesn't work really well And so I field test these concepts to see if it if it you know make sense to me But does it make sense to others because maybe I'm missing something so anyway, it's just what I'm trying you know and and how it works in free will because When I think of this topic, I think of ordination, predestination, and levels of causation, ultimate, proximate, and efficient. Then I think of the nature of human free will inside of fallenness and outside of fallenness. And I think of also, I'm relating all this all at once, to the issue of God granting faith and granting repentance and granting that we come to Christ. Well, how does all of this work? And then, just to throw a little bit of fuel on the fire, Jesus, God in flesh, he had free will. And yet, everything he did was ordained from the foundation of the world. Because we know Ephesians 1.11 says God works all things after the counsel of his will, and yet it also says, Jesus says, I'm going to read it to you, John 5.19, okay, this is interesting. John 5.19, Jesus says, truly I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing. Now, He can do nothing of himself except what he sees the Father doing. I think I'll address that in a second. And then in John 5.30, I can do nothing of my own initiative. And when you go to John 6.37, excuse me, John 6.38, I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of whom he sent me. So Jesus came to do the will of the Father. He can do nothing of his own initiative except that what he saw as the Father do. Yet, he has free will. Now this is an example of absolute perfect submission of the Son to the Father. How much more are we to subject our wills to the Father as well? You know, if my Lord came to me And if he said, Matt, I'm going to give you one wish. What do you want? You can have any desire, whatever it is. I've thought about this over the years, and I finally came up with an answer a while back. There's only one answer I would give. My wish would be that you, Lord, decide what you want for me, not me. That's it. I just don't have the wisdom. I don't have the scope of knowledge. I don't know. And I would just maybe throw in a hint, as long as I'm with you, that's it, that's what I want. But it doesn't matter to me, because I don't have all that knowledge, but God does, and I want to be able to do what God wants me to do, and I want to live for Him. And I don't even know what the best way to do that is. So my freedom of will I want to submit to him if I could so to speak not have any free will if I could Resign it to God and where it was completely God just says do this. Yes, sir Yes, my lord. Just do it even though I could choose not to I wish I had that ability all the time Just to serve him and just to do what he desires and to relinquish my own freedom You know in that sense That's what I want to do. So as I study all these things, I find it very interesting that all of these topics come together about foreknowledge and free will. I'm just going to throw some things out at you guys. Think about this. Here's a concept. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. Let me say it again. If A equals B and B equals C, well, then A equals C. That's called the law of proper inference. I'll leave it at that. So here's a question. It says in Ephesians 1.4 that He chose us in Christ and He predestined us. So the chosen ones are predestined. All right? So that's A, the chosen ones are predestined. Then you go to Romans 8, 29, where it says, those whom he foreknew, he also predestined. Oh, so the foreknown ones are the predestined ones, but it's also the chosen ones are also the predestined ones. Therefore, the chosen ones are also the foreknown ones. And it's not everybody who's predestined in this sense or foreknown in this sense. And so I look at this and I think, okay, that makes sense. And it says, he chose us from the beginning for salvation. And I'm thinking, wow, how does that all work? I try and come up with the answers sometimes. Hope I didn't hurt you guys' brains too much thinking about this. But hey, that's what we do. May the Lord bless you. There's the music, I'm outta here. And by his grace, we're back on air tomorrow. And, Lord willing, we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everyone, God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.