Well, good evening. And welcome to the evening worship service here at Capitol Community Church. We're glad that you came out. I think this is gonna be just really a wonderful, insightful evening. Tony and Bree are some of our closest friends in ministry, so this is just such a real privilege and a joy to host them. And one of the things that I love to do is to talk to other pastors and preachers. This is just selfishly speaking. I love doing this. And it's so helpful to, as iron sharpens iron, so we sharpen another. So it's so helpful to talk to somebody who does what you do in a different context, in a different situation, and get their insights on ministry and life. and all of those things. So I think it's gonna be helpful for us to talk to Tony and really just hear from your heart and just hear how God has shaped and formed you and then see how that can be an encouragement for us as well. So as we begin, let's go to the Lord in prayer and ask the Lord to bless our time. Heavenly Father, God of all comforts and God of mercies, Lord, we come to you this evening. We thank you for your kindness to us. We thank you, Lord, for the grace that you have given us in the Lord Jesus Christ and in the cross of Christ and in your resurrection. Lord, the grace of forgiveness of sins and imputed righteousness that we stand on your righteousness and not our own. We thank you, Lord, for your sovereign work in our lives and bringing us to a knowledge of the truth We thank you, Lord, that we're here in this room, that we worship the triune God, that we know the direction of history, that we know the direction of our lives, that we walk in the way of your truth, we walk in the way of your law, and we walk according to the Holy Spirit. We thank you for all of these realities. We thank you, Lord, for our brother Tony Wood and Bree and their ministry at Mission Bible in California. We just thank you, Lord, for the opportunity to hear from his heart this evening. We pray, Lord, that you would just really speak through him and bless us as we hear from him. We ask all this in Christ's name, amen. All right, I would like to begin just by giving you an opportunity to introduce yourself. Who is Tony Wood, if you were just to introduce yourself at a, let's say at a pastor's conference? You know, we're at Chef Con and somebody asks, okay, who's Tony Wood? Nothing, I must increase, he must increase and I must decrease. I, yeah, I heard someone say that recently. Direct application from the sermon, that's good. I get to be friends with Grant Castleberry. I don't even know how to answer that. I think we all would say we're just sinners saved by grace and it is a privilege to pick up the sword of the Spirit, the Word of God, and herald it, proclaim it as he sees fit based on both an internal and external call. I would say that I have the privilege and joy of being married to my best friend in life, my teammate, and The Lord has blessed us with three children who so far are walking obediently and faithfully under the discipline and instruction of the Lord. I have the privilege of serving the blessed people of Mission Bible Church. and the opportunity of shepherding them, and the opportunity of getting to serve and walk alongside great brothers and sisters in Christ like you and Grace Anna. And so, yeah, that's me. I mean, my life is boring. I am literally, it's all church this, church that. We don't have anything exciting outside of church. I don't think about anything other than church. It's not exactly true, but. What's that? Not exactly true, but. Well, it is. We, yeah, what else? Sweetie, help me out here. Okay. Well, why don't you, why don't you tell us how you came to know the Lord? You know, when did you, when do you think you were born again? And maybe there was some time there where you thought you were born again. Let me tell you first off why I'm, I think I'm the worst interview ever that you'll do. Like you had Owen last week and I'm sure his recall is so fast that everything you ask him, it's going to be a great response. I'm the opposite. I'm the kid, like we were in growing up in middle school and people hit you with like a one-liner and I'm the guy that was like, well, I know you are, but what am I? You know, that whole thing. That's all I had, I had nothing, you know? And then I go home and I lay in bed and at like 12 at night, I'm sitting there like, dang, that's it, that's the zinger, man, I should have logged in. So I'm that guy. So I'll probably tonight around 11 be going through all these questions and have better answers. I was a church kid growing up. In fact, coming here today, I grew up in the Midwest in an old school conservative Baptist church. And literally this moment right here is nostalgic for me. Because before moving to California, I remember this. But I, although I made a profession of faith like so many Baptist kids back in the day, I did not walk with the Lord. I lived an immoral teenage life. And I had a, you know, just failed relationship after failed relationship, almost got kicked out of two Bible colleges. And so on, I was living like so many other people with a front where I was the Christian kid, but on the inside, my heart was dead. absolutely dead and trespassed in sin. And the Lord awoke me, literally awakened me when I was 21 years old, sitting in a midweek church service after being maybe a day away from being homeless. I had turned my back on my church. I had turned my back on my family. I had cursed my parents, said, I want nothing to do with your faith or your religion. And I had no job. I was in Motel 6 and my credit card finally just was run out, declined. And so I was about to be homeless. I went to a church service on a Wednesday night because I had heard, you know, all the young people went there. And I'm in the front row. And it was even, you know, during the worship time, the Lord was drawing me because as we were singing songs, I already began to cry. And then the preacher got up and he just started preaching on grace and Ephesians 2, 8, 9. And I'll never, never forget that moment. It was literally like, that's for me. Growing up in the church, I think the idea is always, there's a bunch of sinners out there somewhere that this whole grace thing is for, and actually coming to grips with my sin and understanding that Jesus would hang on that cross and have his arms of love out for me was the moment. And although I didn't understand all the theology, I didn't understand the doctrine, I couldn't have walked you through a diagnosis of salvation and justification, the reality was in that moment, the new heart was given to me. I was regenerate. And from that point forward, I wanted to please Christ to the best of my understanding and follow him according to his word. And so that was around 21. And then I had to go back. And you know, part of salvation is belief and repentance. I had to go back to everybody. I had to go back to, in the relationships that I had destroyed, go back to the person, go back to their parents, go back to my father and my mother, go back to the church, back to the elder board. I went back to everybody and just said, I'm sorry for what I've done. I'm sorry for how I've defamed the name of Christ. And I want to repent and I want to reconcile and restore. And so the Lord has been so gracious to give us a second chance and me a second chance at life and ministry. And then how soon after that were you baptized? Were you baptized at that church or when did that happen? No, I was actually, interestingly enough, it would have been quite a few years later when I came to understand that my theology was reformed. So I got saved, we could talk about that, in a church that was very attractional and seeker-sensitive. Oh, we're going to talk about that. Yeah, I know. I know, here it comes. So yeah, that's fine. And so really it was years later that I realized that my baptism in that church after a profession of faith at age six, you know, was not truly the baptism of a convert. It was just a doing what my parents wanted me to do and what my community of faith was doing. And so it was much later at the beach that I was baptized. I think I was probably, I was probably mid-20s, late 20s. Wow, that's kind of like the Greg Laurie movie, like you're baptized in Pirate's Cove or something. Actually, yeah, I mean, that's part of California, right? A lot of weird things happen out there, I told you. So, you're born again, 21, and I know you got married to Bree at 24, right? Yep. So, walk us through how y'all met. Sure. Yeah, we have, same as my testimony, we've got both the, you know, the head story and the heart story. We got the head version, got the BC days, and then we have the in Christ days. I didn't really know her well growing up, although we went to the same church, but she knew me because I was, you know, the kid that her older sisters told her to stay away from. And it's a really true story, she'll tell you, which is good, and she should have. But then we ended up meeting late teenage years and got to know each other, immoral relationship, and kind of the party days. And then it was a year or so later, after I got saved, I was interning. They'd asked me to intern, I was probably 22, 23, and I'm in the college group, just working in the college group, and our college pastor actually said, he said, hey, would you, be interested in teaching one night. So I said, I'd love to. I don't really know, never done it before, first time. It was literally my very first message I ever gave. And you know, I don't know how yours went, but mine was rough, man. It wasn't the best. But anyway, I get up to talk, and then out of nowhere, after not seeing her for about a year, there in the very back of the room, she had heard that I was teaching that night, and she had known me as Bonehead, Knucklehead, Tony, stay away from Tony, and she was there. And I still to this day feel like, you know those movies, like what was that movie touched by, or the show Touched by an Angel, where like they would have the golden light come down? I'm getting up to teach and I am looking at everybody, you know, in a room like this, there's probably a hundred or so college students, and in the back, it was like she was standing there and I felt like this light, it was just, I'm sure it was just a fluorescent light. But it felt like, you know, la-ha-ha, la-la-ha, and so, Yeah, long story, kind of short, the college pastor came over and said, hey, you know, you need to, I told him what was going on and who she was. He said, you've got to go and you've got to fix that. You've got to say you're sorry, you've got to repent. And so I asked her, I said, after service, I said, would you be willing to go and talk with me? And so we went to the parking lot. We ended up going to Starbucks, which is around the corner. From church we sat there till 10 p.m. And they closed and then there was a Denny's across the street in the same parking lot So we walked over there and we talked till 5 in the morning And we literally would both say to this day that Me being born again, me being new in Christ, we both literally that night sat there and knew in the back of our minds that we would get married one day. And that's what happened. Eight months or so later I proposed, and then another five months later we were married. So within about a calendar year, we were married with the blessing of the Lord and the church and all of that. Wow. So you are just propped up to teach. That same night you re-encounter Brie, and then at that moment, did you sense God's call to ministry? Or had you already been sensing that maybe the Lord was calling you to ministry? Well, I think you and I would agree there's an internal and an external call, you know, the reality of how we work that out. I sensed the very, very, very first time I met with the pastor, because I, after that night that I believe I was saved and was born again, I scheduled a meeting and I said, hey, I don't think I'm allowed to come to church. Here's everything I've ever done. I was just pouring it all out in front of him. And he goes, well, yeah, that's called being a sinner, and our church is full of sinners, and we come to Jesus, we're redeemed, and now that's what we are. And really for the first time, it sounds funny coming from a home where I was taught sound doctrine, I really was coming to the reality that this is what it means to be saved. And when I walked out of his office, I'll never forget, he said to me, he said, Tony, I want you to remember, God is not done with you. That was all he said. And I walked out of the office and I got in the car and it was just like for the first time, wait, God's not done with me. Not only does he love me, not only did he send his son to die for me, he literally, he now wants to use my life for his glory. And I remember thinking in my mind, what else would I ever want to do than to tell people about what I've just experienced? And so I would almost say from the very first moment that I came to understand what it meant to be justified in the eyes of the Lord, I wanted to do nothing else. Although I knew I didn't deserve it, I didn't think I'd be allowed to do it. I wanted to do nothing else but then to proclaim his majesty. So, that happened in a seeker-sensitive, attractional church. Yeah, pick apart my story. Be an investigator. Dig in. Let's go. So the name of that church you were telling me earlier was a church called Crossroads. Yeah, well it was first a different church, but that's where it culminated. Yeah, tell us about what that environment was like and what it meant to be in ministry in that context. That's two questions. What's it like and then what's ministry like? Totally, I gotcha. Great question. Show of hands, anybody been in attractional megachurches and seen how that works? So what that would mean is like you rev up the engine on Sunday, you got a hazer or laser light show, there's always a lot of wham bam maxims that make you feel good about yourself, and at the end there might be an altar call, and then you kind of walk out feeling better about yourself. Anybody been at churches like that? Okay, I'm sure you have a few of them here in the area. And I'll, I mentioned names earlier this morning. We don't have those in North Carolina. Definitely not in Charlotte or anything. So, uh, yeah. Um, anyway, yeah. So there was a, That was the context, and I would say the church is, it's nothing but, in a good way, a bunch of Arminians armed with John 3, 16, trying to save everybody. And so in a really healthy sense, I think the heart of everybody is sound. I mean, people want lost people to be saved. They want to move from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light. So I can't knock it that way. That's what happened to me. The challenge is, if that's the ecclesiology of the church and it's all you see, then you begin to replicate that. And so every Sunday, the idea is, what can we do that's most interesting for people? Whether that's an illustration, whether it's a video, whether it's, you know, movie night, what do they call it? Go to the movies now. That's the thing everyone does. And so the idea of preaching the Word is there, but it's not primary. And it's always how that interesting story can get people to respond in some way. And so that's what I saw, that's what I learned, and that's what I started to do. There was a couple in Texas, this is a few years ago, I think it was Ed Young Jr. and his wife were doing a series on marriage, and they did what they called a bed-in, where they put a bed on top of the church, and they said, we're gonna stay in the bed all week without getting out, but then the glare off the concrete off the top of the church hurt their eyes, so it turned out to be, anyway, it was just, it was huge, it was all over the news, but what you're saying is what they were doing, it's like, What stunt can we do to get somebody to the church that's outrageous, that's pushing the boundaries? I can give you story after story after story that would make you want to vomit, but that's what we did. If you want stories, I can give them to you. So ministry, so what was that like? Tony Wood is a intern or you became the youth guy, the college young adult guy in that context. Yeah, I was originally, I was interning and my job was simply to serve in the college group, set up chairs, and I always wanted to teach. but didn't get too many opportunities there at the beginning. And then in 2005, I think it was, they asked if I would come on staff, and which I did, and I was just helping out, running, you know, they had an ice skating rink, and all the big things big churches do, and I was administrating that. And then the guy I was sitting to in an office, right next to me, a little closet office, he said, you know, hey, I'm going to be planting a church, and we have a young adult ministry on Tuesday nights. And so would you be willing to maybe come down, it's got 12, 15 people in it, and teach it for me?" I said, sure, I'll ask the pastor. So I went into his office, said, you'll be okay if I did that? He said, no problem, it'd be great. So I did. And I went down there, and again, I'm just learning. I think it was in my first year, second year of Bible college. And all I knew, again, was people need to get saved. And so back then, we all used mics like this. And so I would just, you picture a verdict now. I mean, I was just yelling at everybody. But I look back now, and at least I was yelling about repentance and faith. And so it was interesting, that groups, the Lord just moved. I mean, literally just started adding people. I think we went from 12 to 300, it filled the room. And then college students, we went into the sanctuary and that one filled. And so it was a little out of control, but it was exciting. It was one of those rare special works that I think you read about in books and then you go, oh my goodness, we get to be a part of it. And so that was a pretty exciting year, that first year. So then you decided to plant a church in what year? Well, that would have been 2005. And then in 2006, we ended up, or 2007, we ended up leaving to the Philippines. And we went out there for a few months. Then we came back to Crossroads, the church you mentioned, and started a college group there. And that's the one that really grew up, really got large, a few thousand kids that were driving in. And it was out of that context that we decided to plant the church. I went to the pastor one day, and I was like, hey, you know, what do you think we should do with this college group? It's getting really large. He said, well, there's two options. One, you stick around 10 years, and then you can take the helm. Or you could go plant a church. And so I said, I like that idea. I'd love to take a shot. And the church got behind us. And so we did. So we took that model of ministry. I'll tell you a funny story. One of the nights at that big, massive, like, you know, worship center, we had a big hairspray bottle, and I told the story about when I hairsprayed my wife's clothes, our second year of marriage. I know, I know. So anyway, the story, I won't go into it very long, but is she, we're having, anybody else have problems in their first or second year of marriage? Anybody else? Okay, only me. So we were having challenges, and we talk about those on date night sometimes, but we actually, she looked at me, she was sitting on the bed, I was getting my clothes ready for night church, just like this, and then I saw she was doing, and girls have these big hairspray bottles, like the big ones, I forget the name, like big sexy, it's like a fire extinguisher size bottle, you know. I've seen that. You've seen that one, it's like this big. I've seen the same one, yeah. And so she's sitting on the bed, She's hair spraying her hair with this fire extinguisher, and I'm watching in the sun the molecules dancing over her head and onto my clothes, which I had just kind of ironed and got ready. So I just said, I said, molecules, you know, and she's looking at me like, molecules, what do you mean? I'm kind of getting a little frustrated. And so I said, what are you doing? You're hair spraying your head on my clothes. Molecules, molecules. And she says, and she stands up and she says these words. She says, she says, she's walking down to the bathroom. If the shoe were on the other foot, you wouldn't care. And then she locks the bathroom door. So in my mind, I start to think, oh really? Oh really? And so I turn around, I reach in the bathroom door, I grab the big can, and I turn around and I'm walking down the hallway, and I know that the Holy Spirit was going, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. But in the flesh, I'm thinking, oh, you don't think it would matter? And so I rip open the closet, and I turn around and I say, you don't think it would matter? And I just start cutting loose on all of her clothes. And yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible. Absolutely horrible. And so... This is the marriage advice that is on the podcast. Listen to the podcast. It really... That's right, man. So anyway, we did an illustration one time when I told the story and we had a big, you know, can of a big sexy hairspray come out of the ceiling and it started like blowing fog and haze and it's... Anyway, silly, silly, silly stuff like that. So how did you get from that? from the big hairspray can to being a Reformed expository Bible teaching pastor, you know, in probably one of the larger Reformed churches in Orange County. The Lord broke me. And he humbled me. And we went to plant the church thinking that we were going to be the next, you know, in quote, elevation. And, and about six months in, I'm sitting on my couch getting home tired of the the hamster wheel of putting on a show. And I just I literally I'm sitting I'm still remember the very place I was sitting looking at the wall just dead to the world. And I said, Lord, if this is what church is, I don't want to be a part of it. This is it. Because the thing that guys don't tell you who are in that world is they're wondering, is this me manufacturing this like a salesman and a con artist? Or is this the Lord? And they don't know. And they don't know. And I said, Lord, I don't want to be a part of something that's fake or false. If it's you, I want it to be you. And he broke me. I remember getting on my knees and just crying out to him. And literally the next day, I was on my way to the gym. And there was a guy on the radio barking about the glory of God and all this. And I'm like, whatever that is, that's what I'm looking for. And he was just teaching the Word. And that led me into this journey through books. I listened to the end of the program, I got the book, you know, the whole thing. And you guys know, you start tracing through your John MacArthur's and tracing through your R.C. Sproul's and tracing right through your Lloyd-Jones and tracing all the way back to Jonathan Edwards and back to the Puritans and back to the Reformers and all the way back to Augustine. And you begin to realize, I began to realize there was this thread, there was this thread of the sovereignty of God over all things. And it's God is the one that's at work in a man. That really, really, for me, just brought me to my face. And so what we decided to do was, I'm on this journey, and my wife's not on this journey with me. She's not? Not yet. She doesn't know what's going on. She just knows I'm crying a lot and walking around like a, woe is me. And then the church isn't on the journey. So now you gotta figure out, how do you now bring everyone along? And so we just started breaking bones, to use the Greek on equipping the saints for ministry, just breaking the bones. And we would start holding, I held Saturday doctrines of grace courses, and we had an elder's wife who came in, he came home and he says, hey, look at this, what the Bible says about salvation. And she actually took the binder, looked at it, and then threw it at him. Is this not my God? Are you kidding me? God's not like that. And it went and slid under the floor, you know, under the couch. And he goes upstairs and just starts praying. This is an elder's wife. And then he comes walking down the stairs and she's weeping. He says, is everything okay? And she realizes, she's looking, she has her Bible open. She says, this is what the Bible says. This is what the Bible says. We had to fire the whole worship team. They were all contracted musicians from some mega church in town. All the pastors lost their titles. We all became pastors in training. Everybody had to go to seminary. We lost 100 or 200 people. I don't remember what it was at the time. And every conversation turned into a doctrinal conversation. Because everything from that point forward was, it's in the Bible and we do it. If it's not in the Bible, we don't. And I actually put on a suit and tie for the first time. That's when you really know. So, if you were to describe Mission Bible Now, what would you say the DNA of Mission Bible Now, if you were to, you know, explain it to one of our... Oh, it's so much like this. It's so much like Capital. I would say we, you know, we'd consider ourselves Reformed or Calvinistic, we'd consider ourselves Baptistic, we'd consider ourselves... expository. I think if you came, the DNA would be, and yet still free in worship and creative in worship and not having to be stodgy. So I would say sound in doctrine and free in method, if I had to describe the DNA. Is that a fair description? Yeah, I think that's very fair. So you and Bree, this is probably three years ago, started your podcast. Is it three years? Has it been that long? I don't know, it's maybe two, two-ish, two, yeah. So, how did, I mean, this podcast has just blown up. I mean, it's everybody in the Christian world that I seem to talk to has either listened to an episode or heard of the podcast. So, how did y'all decide to start that? Where did that, what's the genesis of that? Well, we were asked to do it. So Kosti Hinn, who is a friend, has his ministry for the gospel. And then the executive director is a friend, Brett Skinner. And they came to us and said, hey, we're all getting saved. Because they had been at, you know, Kosti got saved at our church. We've all been saved, but we all come out of these aberrant movements or, you know, a secular environment. We don't understand the nuclear home. But because you grew up in a nuclear home with sound conservative doctrine and parents who were teaching you these values in a baptistic environment, would you be willing to do something so that all of our followers and FTG and wherever can learn? And so that's all it was. It was just... And Bre and I, honestly, we don't... We don't know up from down when it comes to technology. We've never done a podcast. It's my wife's worst nightmare to do anything public. Like literally, she's a homemaker. She's compassionate. She's sensitive. And so we prayed about it. You would have no idea of that from the podcast, by the way. You would have no... I would love some time for you guys to all come and sit with us as we work through some of those things, because there's been, I mean, honestly, a lot of sharpening in our own marriage because of it, we would say, a lot of tears have been shed, a lot of long, personal date night conversations about how, you know, what this takes, and it's just been a grace of the Lord. What's been the greatest encouragement that you've received from starting that podcast? Wow, that's a great question. I think we both would say that the single greatest, there's two benefits. You know, one is seeing the impact it's even had in our own church body. Because you know, we're not able to get into the homes of everybody when our church gets to a certain size. And now we have the opportunity where people, we all feel like we know each other. And that's been a benefit that we never saw coming. But I think one of the most beautiful things is when we get messages from people and we see, you know, a marriage restored or a couple get into biblical counseling. And Bre does a really good job, way better than I, of actually engaging people and trying to help with longer questions. And so I think that's been the neat thing is just seeing the universal body and how the Lord works in lives around the world. He's just so amazing. I love that. So in terms of, you're dealing with marriage so much and so many people's issues and problems. I know lots of people are reaching out to you and looking to y'all for counsel. What encouragement would you give to all of the marriages here, all the couples here in terms of what to think about in terms of their Christian marriage? Well, I think for married couples, number one, praise God you're in this church. Show me your friends, I'll show you your future. If you get in the wrong Christian community, it doesn't really matter what you do. At the end of the day, you're gonna have just the pull, the gravity of air that's gonna suck at your marriage and pull it apart. So I think being in this church is huge. Number two, I would say really submit. I think we have to really submit. I'm sure everyone in this church knows this. We have to really submit to biblical authority. and say that this is the word of God and whatever it says we're going to do, which then allows number three would be role clarity. And that's something that you've done so well in Grey Santa too, and you come on the podcast and talked about it. But even on a larger scale with CBMW, did I say that right? I always get it wrong. CBM, CMW. That was the conversation with Owen last week. Can we change our branding? The Council on Biblical Womanhood. Yeah, cbmw.org. Yeah, but you've done such a great job. I think that's the role clarity would be number three. And what I mean by that would just be, do we really believe in biblical authority? And if we do, do we really believe that wives we are to respect and submit to our husbands? And if we do, do we also really then contend and agree that men are to provide and protect and shepherd and lead the home? And once we get that order working, right, so we're in a really healthy church, we're submitted to the word of God, and then we're submitting our roles to the order that God has provided, then a marriage, no matter, because we can talk about communication and romance and all those things until we're blue in the face, but if those three things aren't right, the foundation isn't set, we just won't make it. CBMW, by the way. The Council of what? So what about, we have quite a few singles here, younger, older. What admonition and encouragement would you give to singles? So here tonight, where are they? I know you're single, Jeff. I've met Jeff. So over here mostly? Or here, okay. Hey, we look familiar. In Williamsburg. Yeah, good to see you again, brother. Singles. Number one, I would say, number one, I would say, take it while you have it. Like, let's go. I think there's this idea a lot of times, because we properly, in the Lord, many of us desire to be married, to kind of just sit around and do nothing while we're waiting for marriage. I'd say be a kingdom single and go get it. So whatever the Lord has for you, go get it. I mean, pick a mission, pick a way to serve the Lord and honor Him and just go get it done. Whether that means picking a great Bible college to go to and then going on the missions field, whether that means being a part of a social, you know, or parachurch ministry like CBMW, anything, just take some little step for the kingdom of God and then pray and go, Lord, if you want me to be married, then my husband or wife will come and we'll do that together. But I don't wanna waste that decade. That would be number one. Number two would be, while you're looking for a spouse, make sure that you're becoming the spouse that God wants you to be. At the end of the day, a godly man is out there, ladies, and he's looking for a woman of God, and there are godly women out there who are looking for men of God, and so you wanna become that in your character, and so put all your energy into that. And then number three, now this will sound really, really applicable, but it would be, if you want to get married, put yourself in context where there's people who want to get married. I know that sounds really, because there's been this, and I don't want to grant, I hope I don't step on toes, I'm not saying you would have said this, but there's been this narrative for a long time in especially really like conservative evangelical circles or even reformed circles, which is like, don't even focus on marriage. just kind of put your head down and just just just if you're gonna not have a partner you know a partner just just but here's the thing if God wired inside of you this beautiful opportunity and calling then there's nothing wrong with putting yourself in places where there are other men and women who also desire that calling now you can't go to a bar you can't go to a nightclub so where do you go you go to a bar Bible-believing church where there's a lot of young people that are thriving for the gospel like capital and you just walk around and you let the pastors know, hey listen I'm ready and I want to get married. I'm dead serious. There's going to be a line up here. But that's what we, that's what he does. That's his job. Like literally, he's the one's going to finish it up here, right? So let him start it too. And the thing is, and I told you I might be stepping on toes, but it's like, it just confuses me. So go, you know, go all the way to Boyce College. Go all the way. Don't go to UNC. What are you going to meet at UNC? Just a woke Marxist there, right? So go all the way down. You pushing too hard? Go somewhere where they are. And then here's the beauty of if you don't have a father who is walking in the faith, then Grant and the other pastors, the elders here, can become your spiritual father. And young men, before you approach a woman, approach them and say, do you think that I, right now, am able to provide and protect a woman of God? And if so, get his qualification on your life and then have him help you set up that first date. The beauty of the church is it protects us from making poor choices. So that would be my three. I'm kind of turning this into a sermon. Man, that's good right there. That was solid gold. Did y'all hear that? That was really good if you're a young person. So I love that. Not in the bar, not the nightclub, but the church. And I love that, the freedom to be around other believers. That's a good thing. And we're not saying, you know, some people, singleness is a calling from the Lord, and that's great too. But if the Lord has put on your heart the desire for marriage, we certainly want you to marry in the Lord, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6 and 7. So, in terms of where y'all feel the Lord is leading you in terms of this ministry, I mean, it's kind of probably become something that y'all didn't expect. Where do you think the Lord is leading y'all in terms of date night with the Woods? What do you think, you know, maybe the next year or two? I think you nailed it right there. We're literally just taking it one step at a time, and I think currently in our prayer process, we are finding there's more opportunities this next year to do things like this, which we couldn't do when the kids were younger. So I think Bree and I are more and more excited as the kids get older and we start kicking them, well, we're sending them out, you know, kindly jettisoning them. I think we're looking forward to being able to kind of participate in the universal church a little more together. I think another big thing, and you and I talked about this earlier, is we'd like to start, you know, doing a little more on the conference side, like at the church, and bringing marriages together from around the world. And so, like, this next year, if we do, you know, a Valentine's date night event, it just would be like, hey, anybody in the world who's a part of this family, you come on out, and the Castleberries will be there, and we'll be there, whatever. And then that way, they can actually have a whole weekend that's devoted to growing their marriage. and they can hear from great teachers. And so I think that, and then even spend a night working out the things they're learning together in Orange County, which is a nice place to vacate anyway. But I think that's kind of so far what we're sensing this next year. Yeah, it's just really cool to see how the Lord is using y'all with Christian marriages. And I think people are really looking to y'all from all across the country, like you said, across the world in terms of these issues relating to marriage and the family. just really, really special to see somebody of their caliber being that voice for so, so many. And that really thrills my heart and just really excited to see what the, you know, keep going, because I think it's so needed in this day and age. And just so glad that y'all are in that space. So what I want to do now is I want to do some fun. I did this with Owen last week. And basically, I wanna give you one word or two word, and then I just want you to do a minute association, whatever comes to your mind when I give you that word or name, okay? So, I'm not gonna give you any. My wife is gonna die, because she knows these are the type of moments that get pastors fired, right? So the Lord, the Lord says out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. We need a filter, you know, so if I pause really long, that's the reason why. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I want to get inside your mind right here. All right. So I'm going to give you the word about a minute. All right. First one, broad evangelicalism. Lukewarm. Discipleship. The backbone of the church. You want me to go longer on these? You can. You don't have to. You can. These are good. I like them. But I am curious. Should I go longer? I don't want to bore them to death either. I am curious to hear what your definition of a disciple is. Well, I think we want to make disciples who make disciples. And if you were to press me on the idea of a disciple, then it would be someone who actually is following in the footsteps of his master. That's what the term actually means. And so the idea there would be not someone who just says that he loves me or says that he follows me, but Jesus said, if you love me, you will obey my commandments. And so being a disciple is someone who's actually committed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in every facet of their life, and then commits their life to sharing and continuing to replicate that process in the lives of other people. So yeah, I think the first question actually begins to bleed into the second one, which probably is where you're headed, right? That broad evangelicalism is culture Christianity, where we are assenting with our mouth, we are not believing in our heart, and therefore we're not walking it out with our feet. There's no fiduciary understanding. There's no transformation of the life. It is a dead faith. It is a faith of demons where the Bible says that he whom he saves for heaven, he saves for holiness. He whom he justifies, he will sanctify. And the reality is if I'm a Romans 1 through 3, you know, pagan who's an unregenerate, and I come to be awakened to the fact that there is an unrighteous, no not one, well then I'm going to fall on my face and be justified by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ, Romans chapter 4 and 5. But that doesn't end there, because the mastery of sin over my life has been broken. And I have a new master. He's Christ Jesus, my Lord. And although I'll struggle, Romans chapter seven, by Romans chapter eight, I understand I am walking with God as my champion, as my protector, as my provider. And so it's literally an entire life change. We can keep going through Romans. And so being a disciple is all of life for all of God, right? And all of me for all of God. Is that? Do you think you can be a Christian and not a disciple? I don't believe so. I don't believe there's Savior and Lord. I agree. I know. I don't believe there's Savior and Lord. I don't believe there's Christian and then follower or disciple. I think that they're one in the same. And I think if you just study the book of John, you see that come out. You guys have been in the book of John now for a couple years. You've seen that come out time and time again. 4, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10. The modern Lloyd-Jones. So, all right, next word. And we talked a little bit about him this afternoon, so I thought I could slip him in. Yeah. Californian Ronald Reagan. I'm a huge Reagan fan. We talked about it this afternoon, but I do believe he's a true conservative, obviously for political, sociopolitical reasons. But I also think it's interesting to watch his journey as a man who constantly was willing to grow. He picked his positions, and a lot of those positions developed, but he seemed like a man who was always willing to learn. And the other thing about Reagan is that he was kind. A lot of times we feel that we want to give truth, but we're not kind about it. Just because you're right in doctrine doesn't mean you have to be ugly about it. And so I think a beautiful thing from Ronald Reagan was, is he wanted to actually win people, not just win arguments. And I think as a Christian orator, as a preacher, a proclaimer, a herald of the word of God, you and I both would say, hey, listen, we believe in sound doctrine. We're not backing off sound doctrine. But one of the things we can learn, for example, from a guy like Ronald Reagan would be we can do so kindly, and we can do so in order to attempt to win people, not just win our case. Another Californian, Rick Warren. I think that Rick, with the best of intentions, has done a huge disservice to the church. I believe that going back before him to Vincent Peale and the self-esteem movement, and then Robert Shuler after him, I think that Rick Warren is the next in that iteration. And now there is a whole group of guys in the fourth generation that have taken off. and has done a huge disservice to the church. Do I believe that Rick will be in heaven with us? I believe that he probably will. I believe that he does love Jesus. I believe that he holds to a gospel of trusting in Christ. But man, I believe that the convolution of the doctrine, the lack of biblical preaching, the high emphasis on what Jesus does for us and not what we ultimately want to do to serve Jesus. I think that the high emphasis on attractionalism has done a massive disservice for the church and may even, between him and Bill Hybels, be largely the reason that evangelicalism is in the state that it's in. Well said. Expository preaching. What's the only preaching? And you know that I say that with nuance. There's topical textual, and we can go through a whole host of things. There's thematic exposition. But the reality is, is that if we want to teach the Word of God the way that God intended it to be taught, and the way that He wrote it, and the way that He superintended it, then we have to preach verse by verse, word by word, phrase by phrase, through the Holy Canon. Martin Lloyd-Jones. Martin Lloyd-Jones? Have you ever had somebody flip the interview around? Martin Lloyd-Jones. When a brother, listen, listen y'all, when a brother is doing a dissertation on the man, he must speak about the man. But I get to ask you the questions. They get to hear me talk about Martyn Lloyd-Jones all the time. I bet they do. Here's my thing on that. I think they think that they're like, who's this Martyn Lloyd-Jones guy? I want them to hear it from somebody besides me. Well, let me just say this. There would be no John MacArthur without Lloyd-Jones. Let's even go further than that. There would be Lloyd-Jones is the reason for the Reformed resurgence. And so I'll just talk about it from a more devotional kind of cultural perspective, because you can take everyone through the academic side. But without Lloyd-Jones, there's nobody going back and finding all those Puritan books and republishing them. There's no banner of truth. If it's not for that little bookseller, as you know so well, and guys that come out of his lineage, like J.I. Packer, we're not sitting here having this conversation. You and I don't exist. as it were. And so the Lord literally used him to rebirth the Puritanistic, the Reformational heritage of the church. And so I think that all of us sitting here who just love talking about the sovereignty of God in all things are sitting here largely because of a man like Lloyd-Jones. Biblical inerrancy. Wow. Well, that's the foundation of everything. Apostlegraphy, right? All Scripture is inspired by God, Theanoustas. Interesting, too, in the context there, we often skip it because we talk so much about all Scripture. But in that context, we want to remember that Paul's actually talking to his protege about the way everyone else is doing it. We're wrangling about words, we're quarreling too much. And he says, you need to stop all that. Because the thing that you hold in your hand, the scripture, the thing that you remember when you were a youth, the thing that you learned from your mama and your grandma, the things that I taught you, this is the one thing right here that has power to transform lives. And so, yeah, the Chicago Statement, Inerrancy of Scripture, it is the foundation to everything that we hold dear. Well, we only have a few minutes left, and I want to ask some pastoral questions. Just some, almost pastor to pastor, but I think it's helpful for them to hear these things too. You said to me this afternoon, your favorite verse is 2 Timothy 4, 5. Be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. So what for you now is the work of an evangelist? Describe your work of an evangelist at Mission Bible Church, and how do you mobilize the congregation for evangelism? I think it's, wow, what a great question. I think it's fine to have programs. We have them. We've got teams that go out in the streets and hit the neighborhoods and we keep maps and we know who we've hit and all that stuff. We have teams that take an ice cream truck to the beach and sit there and they do the, you know, we've got guys, Ray Comfort's been to the church, all that. So I don't think there's anything wrong with programming, but I don't think that's what does it. I think what happens is the word of God, when it is proclaimed by the man of God, is used by the Spirit of God to propel the listener, the child of God, to suddenly develop a holy love of God, which then stirs him to go out and proclaim the truth of God to other people. And so I think what happens is, is when we're pulpiteering, if we're teaching the full counsels of God's Word, it literally takes that desire, that evangelistic zeal, and it drives it into the life of people. Because it's like, it'd be like if, If suddenly right now someone stood up here and said, hey, listen, I've got the cure to cancer. And Grant Castleberry says, I've got the cure to cancer. And everyone sitting in that congregation realizes he's got the cure to cancer. And for everyone in here who's had some kind of skin issue, everyone here's had a mother or father who right now is in the hospital. They're rushing up here and they're hearing it and they're grabbing it going, he has the cure. And then they immediately go, what is the first thing they're going to do? They're going to run to their mother, and their father, and their sister, and their brother, and their neighbors who all have cancer, and they're going to say, here it is, here's the answer. And so I think when the Bible is properly taught, the people of God naturally get so amped up on what they're holding, that in their own life, they begin to share it. And so really what we're seeing when we see a loss of evangelistic zeal in churches is we're seeing the loss of evangelistic preaching in churches. Does that make sense? Oh yeah. And so I feel like, and I'll even personalize it in application, I think sometimes that's even why for me at the end of my sermon in the benediction when I have them stand, I tend to pray them out evangelistically. Like, hey Lord, you've allowed us, I didn't say hey Lord, sorry, that sounded really low. Yes, Father, you have allowed us to come into this room. We have worshiped and extolled you. We have heard from you. We have fellowshiped with others because of you. But now, Lord, send these people out to go minister the word of God to the nations for you, right? That's a benediction of sending. So I think things like that kind of stir that zeal. Is that what you're looking for? Yeah, and then what about kids? Obviously, that is a huge mission field for evangelism in every church. There's so many little kids. People don't realize that, that it's not just childcare. This is an opportunity for evangelism and ministry to go tell that story, but you're really dealing with a lot of pagans. and you have that opportunity to reach them for Christ. So what do y'all do at Mission Bible in terms of kids coming to faith? Can I first just say that you have, remember I told you my wife had the glow? I literally do because it's from the sun coming through. This is like when I first met Bree. Anyway, yeah, yeah, that's a great question. I agree with you. A lot of times we think that our kids being in church means that they're either gonna be saved, but the reality is we're raising little unregenerates that are totally depraved, and if you don't believe that, you wait till they're two. And then what happens is, as they grow, I think we focus a lot of our energy, importantly, on morality and pulling them up against the law of God and saying, this is how you want to be a good citizen, this is what it means to be a good participant in a church community and a family. And then there comes that age of conscience from age 9 to 12 where we're helping them really begin to review how they're living in that sense of community and according to the Word. But then by the age of 14 up, I think 13 up, we're really trying to gospel them where we're saying, when you come to awareness that you are in fact a sinner and you cannot do this on your own, just like mommy and I, the only solution is gonna be the gospel. It's only gonna be Christ. And so I think it's important that once they get to that age of account where they're really able to understand their sin, that's when the gospel becomes, I think, most forceful in their life. Not to say that we don't always have the truth of Jesus in front of them, but I think sometimes we can almost put an overemphasis in the early years on pray the prayer, repent and believe, and now you're fine, when that has, I think, potentially more impact when they start to realize and are awakened to their own sin. Yeah, that's good. I heard, do y'all know W.A. Criswell? He was the pastor of First Baptist Dallas. I'm reading that biography on Criswell. But when kids would come down, and he did an invitation almost every service, and little kids would come down. And he would introduce them before the church, and he would say, this child, he wouldn't say that they've been born again because he was concerned about that child perhaps not understanding the reality of their sin, exactly what you're just talking about. But he would say, this child has taken a step towards Jesus. There's a step towards Jesus that this child's taken. So you're talking about, okay, the child has come to realize the reality of their sin, that they've seen Christ in the gospel, and they've trusted him, you believe. Walk us through, just at Mission Bible, if a child comes, let's say that they're a nine or 10-year-old girl, and she wants to be baptized, walk us through what that process is like at Mission Bible. Sure, we've got Catholics and a bunch of people that come from all different walks. In fact, I had a guy come up last week. He's like, hey, this is my son, Aaron. He's probably six months old. And when can we baptize him? I said, well, wrong church. So we, you know, I walked him through that and I said, I can't wait till this little guy grows up and he can make his own profession of faith. I think to your point, my brother, we always want to encourage those professions of faith. We never want to be the parent or the pastor who goes, that's not a real, we want to encourage that. We want to hold it up against, for example, first John and say, let's make sure we're looking for those fruits of salvation. But we want to encourage it. We, and I'll speak only for Mission Bible, because I think every church is trying to figure out how to work out the age thing, all because I think we don't want to fall back into the trap that you and I grew up in, which was, hey, I'm five years old, the community of faith is doing this thing, my mommy and daddy told me it's how you don't burn, and so I'm walking that aisle for the preacher, and then I'm dunked a few months later, and we don't even know what's going on, and then we all see it, by the age of 17 or 18, they're off, they're partying, and the whole thing. So I think we're all trying to avoid that now. We have drawn up a document for our parents, and I'll be really nebulous, keep ages out of it. We've drawn up a document for our parents which talks about the age of autonomy. And what that means is, is when has your child reached the age where they can choose for themselves to come to church and be a part of this body? Because so long as they're under your authority, what'll happen is if they become a baptized covenant member and begin partaking of communion, they've got dual authority. There's authority in the home, there's also now the authority of the elders, and that becomes confused. And so we've drawn up a document and we try to work individually with each parent to discern when is that child? Now, some kids, age 14, 15, they may be ready to take off on their own, get a car. But by and large, nowadays, what we're finding is kids are usually 16, 17, 18 before they can truly choose. This is my faith. It's not my parents' faith. This is my church. I want to submit myself to these leaders. And so we drew up that document and we talked with each parent individually instead of drawing a hard and fast line around it. And that way, we're able to shepherd those kids and their parents through that very difficult reality. And even with my own kids, I'll be honest, it's been brutal because, you know, my daughter comes to me, and she's now 15 and a half, and she's on fire for the Lord. And she's saying, daddy, I really want to take communion. I really want to take this step. And I'm going, okay, sweetie, I'm with you. I'm just trying to figure out in one year or two from now, when you have your own car or you go off to college or whatever, we're really going to find out a lot about what you believe. And so I'm trying to work that out with her, but those conversations are not easy. And I'm assuming that's why you're asking the question. And it requires a lot of sensitivity from both pastor and parent. So is that at all helpful or I'm trying, I don't wanna hurt. Yeah, I think a lot of kids want to be baptized and obey Christ as they should. And even, and I've met with little kids, like you're talking about five, six years old, that I think are genuine believers. But there is that question, I think, of to what degree do they understand the reality of their sin? And to what degree do they understand the reality that Christ died for them? And also, do they understand what baptism actually is and means? and that it's not a salvific endeavor, that it's a symbol that represents the reality of what Christ has done for them. So I think making sure that the child is able to understand all those things and what I've said and what we've said here at Capital is that they're able to communicate those things. And we have every person that's baptized, similar to what you've probably seen at Grace Church, stand up and read their testimony. And so for me, if they're able to articulate and read their testimony, and their parents believe that they have that genuine sign of repentance, then we'll baptize them. But I tell parents, if they're not ready to read their testimony publicly, then we're not ready to baptize them just yet. And that's also, I think, a healthy thing for the child, because if you baptize them too early, they won't remember it. And it won't be as significant as it was for them later on when they realize, okay, this is, this is the moment that I'm proclaiming my faith publicly. For me, when I was baptized, I was baptized in front of the church camp in Dallas. We went out south of town, Camp Elhar, and everybody had a big picnic, lots of fun, lots of moving pieces, but then at 4.30, we all went to this big pavilion, and the whole church is in the grandstand, and they had a platform, and everybody that was gonna be baptized went up and shared their testimony from the platform. Then the whole church marched from the pavilion to the swimming pool, and everybody was gathered around. And so I remember this so distinctly, but that event for me happened five, six years after I was genuinely converted. And I thank God that I waited till I was 11 and 12 years old to take that step of baptism. But that's something I think that a lot of parents, a lot of little kids, you know, desire that step. So I'm always just curious how other pastors handle it. I know we got to wrap up, so I think for me, and this is personal, what I'm trying to work through at 45 now is not swinging the relativity spectrum of ministry too far one way on all these issues, which really become tertiary at some point, you know, not salvation, but how we work that out in the church. Tertiary is a strong word, but secondary. I think for me, because of my background, I potentially swing the pendulum too far because I was so immersed in the attractional world, and I saw so many things go bad. And so I'm trying to regulate my relativity spectrum and my ministry philosophy to make sure that I am more balanced on a lot of those things. And so even hearing you talk is helpful for me in my learning. Let me ask just two quick questions, and I really wanna ask these before we close, but pastoral ministry. If you were just to describe your philosophy of pastoral ministry in 30 seconds, what would you say? Well, feeding and leading. Yeah, so feeding. If you have sheep in the church who are fed well, they tend to not be hungry and complain. And you gotta preach the word, and then leading, right? We talked about a little bit here to there. At the end of the day, I have to know here's where our congregation is, I have to know the sheep, I have to experience what they're going through, and I have to be able to set visions so we can take them there, wherever there is. And that can be a host of things, ministries, programs, pennies, places, but the point is is that feeding and leading really does fall to the shepherd for the sheep. And Mission Bible Church, obviously you're not a prophet, but... What do you just in terms of if you're thinking, okay, these are some goals. These are some, these are some wickets that we would like to hit over the next two to three years. Like, what are you thinking in terms of your block? Is that a cricket reference? It's like a gate that you Oh, a wicket, like the wicket from Pilgrim's Progress. Got the wicket gate. Yeah, gotcha. That was great. So I, for how long, two years? Three years? Five years? Yeah, maybe just looking out, okay, you're talking to staff. Yeah. This is where we're going. Totally. Lord willing, next 24 months. We just got away for our pastoral staff retreat and looked at some of the objectives and things we think we gotta work on. I think number one, we gotta finish the sanctuary. So that's more on the building side. We have to, we're expanding that. Number two is I think we want to, we have to figure out what to do with some of our space issues, which also fits in that. I think number three is really working out some of these conference things we're talking about. and trying to be a regional opportunity for people in Southern California and beyond to kind of come for things that can transform their life. And then I think we really have to take a long look at our missions program. We've been hyper focused on us since COVID and we really have to get our eyes off ourselves because there are people around the world that need first world money and first world resources to advance the cause of the kingdom. So I think those are four things that come to mind. We have the same issues. I know man. Space issues, building issues, wanting to be focused on missions. We can hug and cry and weep together. Hold me, hold me Castleberry. So one last question. I heard from Gary Kim that you're writing a book. Is this true? Yeah. What's the title of the book, or what's it about? I forgot that you knew, Gary. He told me that. He told me he talked to you. I just remembered. It's going to be called The Little Red Book on Marriage and Family. And that's just a take from The Little Red Book on Golf, and there's a whole bunch of them. And it'll just lay out basically from start to finish a lot of the stuff that we cover in the podcast. Wow. When is that set to release? Hopefully spring of 25. Outstanding. Okay, well, we'll have to bring you back here on a book tour. Oh man, I don't know about the book. I would just love to come back here for any reason at all. Am I right? Will we not come back? We just want to be here with you guys. Blessed church, blessed community, and blessed friendship. Well, why don't you close us, if you would. Love to. Would love for you to pray with us and pray for us. Heavenly Father, oh, we just want to pause for a moment and make sure that we are extolling you and your goodness, the goodness that you have poured forth in your Son, Jesus Christ. And Father, there's nothing greater than that. There's nothing more important than that. And we just want to live our lives to bring you glory because of that. But Father, on a human level, we also want to say thank you for this. Thank you for the church, the beauty of the bride, that we get to come together on a Sunday night like this and just rejoice around our marriages, around the callings in our life, around your word, around friendship. And Father, today, I thank you so much for this particular ministry. My friends here in Raleigh, and I know Bree and I both just wanna say thank you. Thank you for Grant and for Grey Santa. Thank you for all the men on staff. I think of Kenny. I think of all the brothers that I met even this morning and those that are doing ministry around this city. But Father, I also wanna say thank you for this congregation and the impact that they're having here, the salt and the light, the beacon that they are, the lampstand in this community. And I pray, Father, that it would continue to grow. It would continue to develop and explode, Father, that more people would be reached and brought into your kingdom, and that you forever would allow us to stand around your throne, singing praises and looking in one another's eyes, saying for that little brief time on planet earth, we got to do it together. We pray these things in Jesus' name, amen.