I'm Edward Huntington, and I pastor Covenant OP Church. I think I know most of you from one place or another. And I welcome you in the name of our Lord as we have this debate and discussion over a debate that's been going on for several years, at least 400 or so. but in a sense longer than that. The real conflict between these two biblical ideas, or these two ideas that are derived from scripture, came at the end of the 16th century. A fellow named the son of Hermon, Arminius, Jacob Arminius, was varying in his teaching from that of the church in the Netherlands. And there was some controversy over that. And then after he died, his disciples presented five points to the magistrate and to the church, and a council was called. And the result was the canon of Dort, which was broken down into five points, which we've come to know as the tulip. And those five points were developed in response to the five points that Arminius' disciples had presented. So the debate's been going on at least that long. One of the speakers did ask me to point out that there's been controversy in the church long before that. As a matter of fact, the Reformation stemmed from controversy in the church. And of course, the two sides are still debating which side is right, whether the Roman side or the reformers, the Protestant side. But the debate goes back even beyond that to Augustine and Pelagius. And what we are hoping to do here this morning is go back and look at the scriptures and not just look at the arguments or the philosophies of the men who took one side or another. So with that note, I will say that one reason we looked at the debate format at least from my perspective, was that we felt it would put the speakers in a position of having to make their argument from the scripture as clearly and as succinctly as they could. And it wouldn't just be a give and take. Well, I think this and you think that, and you think this and I think that. sort of thing, but that it would be in a format that would really make those of you who show up today, and according to the word I have there, some who haven't yet but will, but it'll make you think more clearly, more specifically about what the scripture says in this matter. There are some ground rules, but before I give those ground rules, I'm going to introduce the four speakers that we have. They're sitting over here to your right at this moment. And I'll start with the afternoon speakers. And Mike McGee, please stand up. Mike pastors Harvest Reform Church in Minot, North Dakota. And he will be doing effectual call this afternoon, or effectual grace, irresistible grace. And next to him is Doug Wyatt, who pastors the First Church of the Nazarene. Did I get that title right? Is that the official title? First Church of the Nazarene in Mandan, North Dakota? They're all from North Dakota, so I won't say that anymore. He will do this afternoon's Arminian side on resisting grace or resistible grace or ineffectual call. I'm not sure how we're really titling that side, but he will counter or he will be the counterpoint to Mike's discussion presentation. Then we have next to Doug is Keith Ritchie. Pastors Cornerstone Community Church in Bismarck, and he will be one of the morning speakers, and he will be speaking on conditional election. He will be defending that side, and then Vern Pignalli, Pastors Bethel Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carson, and he will be doing unconditional election. So I will point out again the two speakers from this morning and have them come up and take their seats, whichever side they want to be on. I don't know if we can say the right side and the left side of the spectrum, because basically we're we're all pretty, pretty conservative. So this is Keith Ritchie from Cornerstone Community Church and Vern McNally from Bethel OPC. They will be doing election this morning. And that doesn't mean they're taking a vote. Now we need some ground rules. We want this to go in a very orderly fashion. So we don't want interruptions for applause and cat calls and cheers and boos. Restrain yourself. If you are compelled to pray, pray quietly for your speaker, your favorite, however that goes. But please don't interrupt because we are going to be working. within a time frame and we want to maintain that or else if you break in, it's going to cut the time short for the fellow who's doing the speaking. Of course, that doesn't apply to me. I can just go on and on. To start with, each side will have 30 minute opening statement on their on his position, and then there will be a rebuttal of 15 minutes. And is that right? Ten minutes. Ten minutes. OK. And then the then we'll have the question. So there will be a slight break after that so that you can turn in your questions. I hope you all got three by five cards. I don't know that I've got each and every one of you, but your name and address, phone number on the front side and then use that card for any questions you have. I use the backside and we'll collect those. Try to wait until you've heard the speakers through their presentations so that you don't want to write down questions that you feel have been answered for you. Plus, we need to keep the questions. We're going to have to probably put a limit on them, although we will have a fairly good portion of time. After I've had a chance to collect the questions and sort through them, then we'll come back and have the question and answer session. If you have a particular speaker that you want to answer that question, make a note of that, please. And. It escapes me. I had. That's going to make another point concerning the questions. And now I've dropped it. Oh, yes. Focus on this morning's sessions. Don't be thinking ahead to Mike and Doug and asking these gentlemen about those presentations. Focus on this morning for this morning's questions and answers. Then it's another 10 minutes to wrap it up. Right. Right. Okay, so that is, I think, all that we've got at this time. Again, Vern Pignalli, Election is Unconditional will be opening, and then Keith Ritchie with Election is Conditional will follow that. So as we come with those announcements, let us take a moment to pray. And then we will begin the debate and discussion. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, Lord Jesus Christ, we know that we come to you because you are gracious and merciful. We pray that as we discuss and debate these questions, subjects, that we indeed would look to your word which you have given to us for our faith and life, that we would know Christ better, that we would serve him better, that we would grow in grace and faith and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior so that we can do that. Strengthen these men as they do their presentations, give them strength of body and spirit, and use their comments and their explanations to build us up, to bless us in the way. We pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Pastor Vern Thignelli from Bethel, O.C.C. Carson, North Dakota. Election is unconditional. I want to point out right away, too, you have in your packet some scripture verses that I have included for you. And one of the reasons why I've done that is I only have 30 minutes and I often preach for either 30 or 40 minutes. And so to try to save you the time of flipping, I've printed out the scripture passages, at least most of them. that I'll be referring to, so they're in your packet there. I also want to begin by thanking Dr. Ritchie, my opponent if you will, for taking the time out of his busy schedule to participate in this debate with me. I'm thankful for Reverend McGee and Reverend Wyatt as well. We got together earlier this week and we had lunch together. We had a good time of fellowship. I consider these men brothers, although we are on different sides. of this issue. But nonetheless, I still want to begin with a quote or at least a paraphrase from Dr. Ritchie, what he said at lunch. He said something like this. Why would I need some quotable quotes from Arminian men or Calvinists in the past? This is supposed to be a biblical debate. And I praise God for that comment. That's exactly my hope and my prayer that this is going to be a biblical debate and we're going to spend time in the word of God and look at what the Bible has to say about this issue. Yes, it can be helpful at times to look at what men in the past have said, like John Calvin or Jacob Arminius. But our goal is what does the Bible today? And so my challenge to you right in the beginning, as you listen to this debate, I want you to be asking yourself, what does the Bible say? Who is shown that their position comes from the Bible? And I want you to hold Dr. Ritchie to that. And I want you to hold me to that rigorously. You see, the Bible is our only source of authority. All Scripture is God-breathed, or God-inspired, as it says in 2 Timothy 3.16. So our source of authority is not our thinking, our logic. Our source of authority is the Word of God. What the Bible says is true. And it's important, even if we have trouble understanding some of the things that are left with some questions, what the Bible says is true. I also want you to know that there's not enough time to do justice to this topic. So I hope this will be the starting point for you to dig into the scriptures more, to whet your appetite and to get you to study the word of God more. And I'm sure all the speakers would say amen to that. Study the word of God and see what it has to say. So with no further delay, then let me explain to you my premise. that I am supporting this morning. In fact, it's in the packets, and it is God, by an eternal and unchanging decree, chose some men in Christ to eternal life and did not choose others. God's choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith or repentance, but was purely because of His grace. That's my premise. And this is something that I believe with all of my heart, that God chose a people for himself, not because of what they did, not because he looked into the future to see what they would do to see that they would come to faith. But God chose them purely out of grace. And the reason I believe this is not because of the tradition that I was raised in. Actually, I didn't even grow up a believer. I believe this because I am convinced that this is what the Bible clearly teaches. And yes, I did use the word clearly. In fact, election is a clear teaching of the word of God, in my opinion, so that if you believe in what the Reformation had called sola scriptura, all of or scripture alone and tota scriptura, the totality of scripture, then I believe you're going to have to agree with this position of election, even if you have trouble comprehending it. But it's one thing to just tell you that it's biblical. Now I need to show you that it's biblical, because I said I want this to be a biblical debate. And so let's take a look at various passages of Scripture. And I want to begin by showing you that God chose His people. God chose us. It's not that we chose Him. 2 Thessalonians 2, verse 13 says, But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the spirit and belief in the truth. Did you catch that? From the beginning, God chose you for salvation. You didn't choose God. That's not what it says. It says God chose you. Mark 13, verse 20 says, And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days. God has an elect people. a people he chose, not that we chose him. He chose his people. First Thessalonians 5 9 also says, For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. God, what he appointed us to obtain salvation. John 15 16. I don't know if you can get any clearer than this. You did not choose me. But I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask in the Father in my name, he may give you. You didn't choose me. I chose you. And we have to realize that scripture repeatedly refers to God's people as chosen or elected. It's a common phrase. It's a common way of how God refers to his people. I'm going to go through these passages rather quickly, but you do have them in the package. Psalm 65, for blessed is the man you chose. And it goes on. You chose and cause to approach to you. God chooses, God causes to approach. Psalm 106.5 says that I may see the benefit of your chosen ones. Matthew 22.14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Luke 18.7 And shall God not avenge his own elect who cry out day and night to him? Colossians 3.12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies and so on. Paul, Titus 1.1, Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect. First Peter 1.1, Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ to so-and-so, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. Elect according to who? Elect according to God's foreknowledge of them. Revelation 1714, these will make war with the lamb. The lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and king of kings. And those who are with him are called chosen and faithful. And there are many more passages. throughout the Bible that speak of God's people as elect, of God's people as chosen, of God's people as appointed. The Bible is quite clear. God has a chosen people, an elect people. It's all over the Bible. Therefore, if you are a Bible-believing Christian, then you have to believe in at least some kind of election, because the Bible says it all over the place. But the question for us now is why? Did God choose us? Was it because we were better than anyone else? Was it because God knows a winner when He sees one? Was it because of anything else? And the answer to all these questions is no. The Bible is quite clear that God's choice of us was from before we were born, before we had done anything. And so, therefore, it's not because of anything we did. Why did God choose Jacob and not Esau? What does he say in Romans 9, verses 11-13? For the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand not of works, but of him who calls, It was said to her, the older shall serve the younger. As it was written, Jacob, I have loved, but Esau, I have hated. In fact, God's choice, as I said at the beginning in my premise, is eternal, not just from before they were born. It was made before the foundation of the world. Ephesians points that out. Chapter one, verses four and following, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise, the glory of his grace, by which he has made us accepted in the beloved. You see, before the foundation of the world, he chose us and he predestined us to be sons. Second Timothy one nine says very similarly, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to works, but according to his own purpose and grace. He called us with a holy calling, not because of works, but according to his purpose, his determination, his will, his desire. When grace was given to us before time began, it says there as well. Second Thessalonians, chapter two, verse 13, which I quote again here, God from the beginning chose you for salvation. The book of Revelation twice, Revelation 13, 8 and Revelation 17, 8 talk about names that have been written in the Lamb's book of life. From the foundation of the world, when were the names of God's people written in that book? From the foundation of the world. I won't read them for you right now, but Revelation 13, 8 and Revelation 17, 8. So if God's choice of us goes back to before the foundation of the world, then it can't be because of anything we've done. I know what the Armenian traditionally has said. He says, well, God has looked into the future and he saw who would come to him. And on that basis, God chose him. And they'll point out Romans eight, twenty nine for proof of that, which says for whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, that he might be the first born among many brethren. They see, look, God foreknew that you would choose Him. He knew that ahead of time. Therefore, He chose you. But there are several insurmountable problems with that interpretation. The first one is that Romans 8.29 does not say that. Now, I don't doubt that God knows all the actions of all men, but that's not what Romans 8.29 says. It doesn't talk about God knowing our actions beforehand. It talks about God what? Knowing us beforehand. Whom he foreknew. It's not that he foreknew our actions. Yes, I know that's another passage. But he foreknew us as people. In fact, that word know in the original, gnosko, is a word that describes often intimacy and love. In fact, I actually hear it's pro-gnosco, elsewhere, just gnosco, meaning no. And that word gnosco means, it means no, but it can mean no in an intimate, in a loving way. That's why it is said in Matthew 1 that Joseph did not know gnosco Mary until she brought forth her firstborn son. When Romans 8 talks about God foreknowing us, it's foreknowing us in an intimate way. It's a relationship of love. He loved us, He knew us before the foundation of the world, and on that basis is why He chose us. Not because He saw we would do anything, but because He loved us before the foundation of the world. He knew us before the foundation of the world. We can't take that interpretation because it doesn't fit with this passage. Second problem with that interpretation is it doesn't fit with the rest of the Bible. Romans 9 16 says, so then it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. Why did God choose us? Not because we willed it or we would will it, but because he shows mercy on whom he will show mercy. In fact, Romans 9 goes on, verse 18 says, And therefore he has mercy on whom he wills, and on whom he wills he hardens. John 1, verses 12 and 13 says, But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. How were we born? Not of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, not because God saw that we would in the future, but because of God. Second, Timothy one nine, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to works. But according to his own purpose, God called us not because he saw in the future we would come to him because of that work of coming to him. He chose us not according to our works, our doings, but according to his purpose. His purpose, James two, verse five, says, Listen, my beloved brethren, has not God chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom of God? God chose some for what? To be rich in faith, not because of their future faith. God chose his people to be rich in faith. Besides, the Bible is quite clear that apart from God's work in us, we cannot believe. We are not able to come to God unless he chooses us and affectionately draws us to himself. John 15, five, this one I didn't put in there in your packets, but John 15, five says without me, you can do nothing. You can't come to God on your own. You can do nothing apart from Christ. First Corinthians chapter two, verse 14, but the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned. The natural man does not receive the things of God, their foolishness to him. John 6, 44 says this. No one comes to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6, 65. And he said, Therefore, I have said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by my father. Romans 8, 7, because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can it be. And so if we cannot come to a God apart from Him working in us and drawing us to Himself, and that's getting into the effectual calling side, which you'll hear later, but if we cannot come to God Apart from Him working in us, then it's foolish to think that God chose us because He looked into the future and saw that we would choose Him. Because we can't choose Him. We don't have that ability. We are dead in our sins and trespasses, and somebody who is dead can do no spiritual good. Romans 3 talks and says, there is no one who seeks for God. Apart from God's election. And as a factual call, which Mike will get into later on, no one will come to God. A third problem with this view of foreknowledge of God looking into the future is that really it ultimately comes down to pride, pride in man. And it makes God look like a respecter of persons. Let me explain what I mean by that. If God chose me because of something in me, then it makes me in some way better, wiser, or smarter than my neighbor. If God looked into the future and picked me because he saw that I was smart enough to come to him, or that I would do that, then God's a respecter of persons. But he chose me out of grace, even though I was no better, no wiser, no smarter than anyone else. And that's what makes God so great in his grace, so magnificent. There was absolutely nothing in me. There was absolutely nothing in you, not even future faith. And despite all that, God chose a people. That's what the Bible teaches. And I praise God for it. The view of foreknowledge, in a sense, also makes salvation by grace plus works. I say that because the reason God chose me and saves me is because of what I have, or not so much have, but what I would do. God chose me on the basis of my work in coming to him in the future. That makes salvation at least in part grace plus works. But salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, so that to God alone belongs all the glory. Brothers and sisters, God chose us not because we chose him or would choose him. As I said, those who are dead in sin cannot do any spiritual good, including coming to God until they are born again, until they're made alive from the dead. They are enemies with God. It's not that we first sought God. It's God who first seeks us. And that's exactly what we see in all the conversions in scripture. Take Paul, for example. There is no way that we can read the account of Paul's conversion and believe that Paul chose God first. There's no way we can do that. He was a sworn enemy of Christ. He was a persecutor of the church. But what happened to Paul, who was earlier known as Saul, on the road to Damascus? Did Paul find Jesus or did Jesus find Saul or Paul? I think the scripture is obvious here, Acts chapter nine, verses three through six, as he journeyed, that is, Paul, he came near Damascus and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? And he said, Who are you, Lord? Then the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goats. So he trembling and astonished, said, Lord, what do you want me to do? Then the Lord said to him, arise and go into the city and you will be told what you must do. Brothers and sisters, who found who? Was Paul looking for Christ or was he on his way to persecute the church more? Christ chose Paul. And that becomes even clearer in this passage, because you remember the talk that the Lord had with Ananias, who Paul was later to meet up with at verse 11 in that same chapter. So the Lord said to him, Arise and go to the street called straight and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus. For behold, he is praying and in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him so that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he's done to your saints in Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name. But the Lord said to him, Go, for he is a chosen vessel of mine to bear my name before Gentiles, kings and the children of Israel. Clearly, God chose Paul. Not the other way around. And every conversion may not be as spectacular as Paul's, but that's exactly what happens when a sinner is converted. God chooses him. God stops him in his tracks and sovereignly draws him to himself. Now, I'm getting into Mike's thing a little more. I better stop on that area. Some people have said, but doesn't the teaching of election destroy man's free will? The answer is it doesn't. But what you have to remember is that the unsaved man is dead in sin. And he has the freedom, if you will, to choose God. But he doesn't desire to choose God. He has no heart for God because he's dead in sin. John 8.44 says, You are of your father the devil and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. What does the unsaved man want to do? Does he want to choose God? No, he does the desires of his father, the devil. Ephesians 2 verses 1 through 3, and you he made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works, and the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath just as others. Colossians 2, and you were dead. This is verse 13, dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh. He is made alive together with him. Spiritually dead men can't do anything. They're dead. So no election does not destroy man's free will, but it recognizes that the ungenerate man does not will or desire any spiritual good. I heard somebody say, well, He can come to Christ, though. He can have faith, though. And I can ask, well, isn't that a spiritual good? How can a dead man do that until he is made alive? It's all the work of God, brothers and sisters. It's all the work of God. Besides, if we think about this for a minute, I like to respond and say, why do you argue so much for man's free will? How about God's free will? Doesn't God have a free will to choose those? whom he wants to be his bride. Nobody has ever said to me how unfair you were. You picked Lena Trofimenko to be your bride and you didn't pick others. Why can't God have that same free will? Why are we not willing to give God that free will that he has a right to choose whom his bride will be? I know some say that that's unfair. Why doesn't he just choose everybody? God gives an answer to that question in Romans chapter 9. But indeed, oh man, Romans 9 verse 20. Who are you to reply against God? Will the thing form say to him who formed it? Why have you made me like this? Does not the potter have the power over the clay from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God wanting to show his wrath and make his power known endured with much soft, long suffering the vessels of wrath? prepared for destruction, and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had prepared beforehand for glory. Brothers and sisters, who are we to question God? He's God, and he always does what is right. And I believe that with all of my heart. But one of the things we have to realize is that man is not innocent. All that sin and fall short of the glory of God. And God also says that the wages of sin is death. So the fact that God chose to save some is not unfair. It's grace. The question is not why would God only choose to save some? A better question is why would God choose to save any? I heard an Armenian once described a reform position like this. He says there are 10 people in a burning building and God can easily save them all. But for some reason, he only chooses to save five. Now, that sounds unfair. That sounds not right. But that illustration really falls short of what is biblical. Let me try to explain a more biblical illustration. There are ten people in a burning building. And they are there in that building as a just punishment for their sin. And these men are enemies of God. And these men are cursing God to their face. And these men don't want to be saved. And yet, God chooses to save some. Whether five, or eight, or even one. It's an act of undeserved mercy. And that's the way it is with salvation. Unbelieving man hates God and doesn't want to be saved. He's under the just penalty of death, because the wages of sin is death. And yet God chooses to save some. With the Arminian view, I think I'm running out of time. With the Arminian view, ultimately God becomes weak because He wants to save all men, but He can't save all men. And I'll save that for my conclusion. Let me just say in closing now, then, that in the Reformed view, we still believe what it says in John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Whoever believes will not perish and they will have everlasting life. Why is that? Because God promises that in his word. Does that fit with election? Yes, it fits with election, but if somebody believes, therefore they believe because God has chosen them. God has drawn them. You'll see more of that, I think, in the effectual calling. Am I out of time? No, you've got a minute forty three. Okay. So whoever you are, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. But realize that it's only the elect who are going to believe. I can't go around looking at people's faces to see if they're elect. Therefore, I must go out and I must proclaim that if they believe they will be saved and they will be saved because if they believe God has drawn them to himself and if he's drawn them to himself, it's because they are elect. But it all goes back to God. God gets all the credit. He does all the work and all the glory. One hundred percent goes to him. Thank you for your time. Now it's 1 0 3 4. You better set it. Thank you, Vern. And now, Pastor Keith's going to come up here and give us his side. I expect that he's going to get us as riled as ferns are. Now you should be very nervous. I want you to think about this. There's no clock back there. Look back there, take a look. There's no clock and you've got creatures up here. And we've got a podium. And we've got a mic. And we can lock the door. I'd be nervous. The study of Christianity is one of the most challenging tasks any person can undertake. The field is vast, and the teachers are numerous, and the complexities are great. One could well spend a lifetime and never come to an end. The majesty of Christianity lies in the fact that it is so simple that a child can grasp it, and yet so profound that the most mature mind must acknowledge its depth. The principal concern of the Bible is the redemption of man and the reconciliation of God. For this reason, God chose a people, Israel, through whom he could prepare a Savior. What Jesus Christ wrought for us in his life, his death, his resurrection, the Holy Spirit seeks to make real and actual in us. Despite the very real substantial differences among Christians, at this point most are agreed. Man is in need of salvation. not from his frailties, but from the profound moral problem of sin. There are also agreed that this salvation is by grace of God, through faith, rather than man's self-improvement. Salvation, it is further agreed, results in a certain radical change in man's status before God. It is an actual, real, moral, and spiritual condition. The chief differences in this area of theology are, first, between Roman Catholics and Protestants, who hold quite different views on the relationship of the Church to salvation. Secondly, it's between two large groups of Protestants. In general, those who are Calvinists or the Reformed tradition, and those who are Arminian, Wesleyan persuasion. Now, let's be very clear. Men of the Church love to talk and argue over the these and the theys. And if the truth be known, they actually enjoy the battle. But it doesn't matter that much on the these and days. We forget the simple word that means so much. It's called grace. Grace has been defined as the unmerited favor of God. It's also been described as God's personal attitude towards man. His action and influence upon him. The grace of God is the foundation of all blessings. But particularly, we need to relate the grace of God to the salvation of man. Ephesians 2 says this to us. As for you were dead in your transgressions and sin, in which you used to live, when you followed the ways of the world and the ruler of the kingdom of the air and the spirit who is now at work and those who are in disobedience. All of you also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following their desires and thoughts like the rest. We were by nature objects of wrath, but because God of his great love for us, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead in transgression. It is by grace you have been saved, and God raised us up in Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms with Jesus Christ, in order that in the coming ages He might show us the incompatible riches of His grace expressed in the kindness in Christ for us. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves. It is a gift from God, not by works, so that no man may boast. For we are God's workmanship. Created in Christ Jesus to do good works with God is prepared for us in advance to do grace Grace is the great love Grace changes us if the Holy Spirit Can be described it might be very simply if God's dramatic presence with us We might say the Holy Spirit communicates God's grace to us and God's love for us. I It is by the Holy Spirit that God calls men unto salvation. It is by the Spirit that He convicts them of their sin and awakens them to their need. It is by the power of the Holy Spirit that men turn to God in repentance and in faith. It is by the Spirit that men are born again and renewed in His image. Here we think and add what I call one of the these and theys of church argument. It's one of the things people love to battle over. Prevenient grace, which is described as the mercy towards the guilty and help for the impotent soul. There is no disagreement in the fact of original sin or man's inability to work it off. But there is a disagreement to who it is for. There is a disagreement to who it is for. Salvation is by the grace of God, but not restricted to a group arbitrarily limited by the unconditional election. It is for all men through the free gift of God's grace in Jesus Christ. All men, not merely the elect, are given the ability to hear and heed the gospel call. Thus, the first step in reconciliation is not irresistible regeneration of certain ones arbitrarily chosen, but the universal bestowment of grace of God upon all men, enabling all who will turn from sin to righteousness, believe on Jesus Christ for a pardon and the cleansing from sin, and following the good works pleasing and acceptable in his sight. Pervenient grace then enables the sinner, otherwise dead in trespasses and sins, to hear the gospel call, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. As the Book of Romans says in chapters 5, 18, Consequently, just the result as one trespasses on condemnation for all men, also the result of one that righteousness was sufficient to bring life for all men. For just as though the disobedience of one man made many sinners, also through obedience of one man many were made righteous. The law was added so that trespass might increase, to where sin increased, grace increased all the more. All men. All. It is doubtful if the call of God to salvation has never been uttered more beautifully than the words of our Savior Jesus Christ in Matthew 11, 28. These are words of our Lord. Come to me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. The gospel call is just what the word implies. A summons to the individual to accept the gospel. The church has been charged to teach to all nations the God's calling message. Romans tells us this. In Romans 10.9 It says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus the Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As scripture says, anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame. For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. The same Lord is the Lord of all enriches and blesses all. For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Then, how then can they call on the one they have not believed in? How can they believe in the one whom they have not heard? How can they hear without someone preaching? How can they preach unless they are sinned? As it is written, how beautiful are those who bring the good news. That's the church's responsibility is to bring the good news. The call to salvation is an invitation, not an irresistible demand. The grace of God, we must solemnly, when we look at that grace, we must solemnly remember that throughout the Bible, men have resisted God's call. God is almighty and man's freedom is limited. But God has chosen to limit himself by giving one of his creation a real, though limited, freedom. If this is not true, then man is not responsible for his moral choices. And then God is the only real person in the universe. When Jesus wept over the city of Jerusalem, knowing what her final end would be, he certainly seemed to recognize the dreadful power of man. Matthew 23, 37 tells us what Jesus said. Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem. You who killed the prophets and stoned those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together as hens gather under their wings, but you were not willing." You were not willing. A great many scriptures are rendered meaningless unless it is granted that man may resist the grace of God to his own ruin. to his own ruin. Many people love to quote Romans chapter 9 and said that Paul is alleging that both election or calling are arbitrary and unconditional, independent of the attitude or conduct of any man, any part of man. It is important to note, moreover, that such a passage as Romans 9, 10-13 refer to the election of nations rather than the election of individuals, as Genesis 25, 22 makes very clear. As we go back to 25, the babies jostled with each other in her, and she said, why has this happened to me? Jostle went to the Scripture and the cry of the Lord. The Lord said to her, two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated. One people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger. It is very clear there's two nations in the womb, Not two people. In Romans 9, 10, and 11, Paul is setting forth the reasons why the Jews have not accepted Christ. Not why man has not accepted Christ, but why the Jews have not accepted Christ. His conclusion is that it is the providence of God that the Jews, like the olive branches, have been broken off from the trunk. Whereas the Gentiles, like the wild olive branches, have been grafted in. The first were broken off because of unbelief, and the second were grafted in by faith. Romans 11, 17 tells us this. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, the wild shoot, have been grafted in among the others, And now share the nourishment sap from the olive root. Do not boast over those branches. If you consider this, you do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, the branches are broken off so that I can be grafted. Granted, but they were broken off because of unbelief. And you stand by faith. Do not be ignorant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God, sternness to those who fell, but the kindness to you provided that you continue with this kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off. After all, if you were cut out of the olive tree, that is wild by nature and contrary to nature and were grafted and cultivated into an olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? There is certainly no contradiction to election here. God is sovereign. There is no unconditional election. There is sovereignty. God is sovereign. He can cut off the wild branches. He can cut on the real branches. He can graft them in. The pruner can prune whatever he chooses to prune. And if he prunes it and it does not bear fruit, he has the right to destroy it. And man, such as Moses, has intervened for other men many times. Men have stood before God and bared their soul and bared their heart and said, God, please, And in the case of Moses, God said, for you. In the case of Neba, I can't pronounce the word. I've got a thing in my mouth to keep my throat fresh. Have you ever had one of those days your tongue's just not working? Sometimes that happens. And we do it as preachers. We get in lots of trouble. We stutter. We stammer. But one thing I don't stammer on, that's that simple word called faith. Let me bring it home because I'm going to run out of time. God is sovereign, free to do whatever he chooses to do. And secondly, that salvation is by means of his grace and power alone. Believers are saved by the power of God through faith. God has foreordained that believers will be saved and unbelievers lost. A man's true identity is to be conformed to the image of God's only son. God loves all the world and calls upon his church to take the gospel invocation of all men. God in First Timothy gives us these words that we may read. First Timothy 2.3 This is the good and pleases God, our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of truth. For there is one God, one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, who gave himself as a ransom for all men and the testimony given in his proper time. And as for this purpose, I was appointed as a herald and an apostle. I am telling the truth. I am not lying. And the teacher of the truth, faith of the Gentiles. I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger or disputing. Let me end with the parable Jesus told. A parable that is very important to everybody sitting here. The parable It's the parable of the wedding banquet. These are Jesus's words. Jesus spoke to them again in parables saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a king who has prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent servants to those who have been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. He sent some more servants and said to those who have been invited that I am preparing my dinner. My ox and my fattened calf have been butchered and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet. But they paid no attention and went off. One to the field, another to his business. The rest eased his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent an army and destroyed those murderers and burned their cities. Then he sent his servants. The wedding banquet is ready. But those I invited did not deserve to come. So go to the street and invite the banquet, anyone you find." So the servants went to the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad. And the wedding banquet hall was filled with guests. Then the king came to see his guests. He noticed a man who was there not wearing wedding clothes. Friend, he asked, how did you get in here without wedding clothes? The man was speechless. The king told the attendants, tie him hand and foot and throw him outside in the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing and gashing of teeth. For many were invited, but few were chosen." Why was he not dressed? Jesus is telling a parable for those who have ears to hear. Why was he not dressed? Because to stand before the Most High God, we must have the blood of the Lamb upon us. And we are seen through that blood. They were invited. Then they went out to the field. They first went to Israel and they told them about Jesus. The nation of Israel stoned the prophets. They murdered the prophets. They rebelled. They ignored the call. So they went out and invited the Gentiles to dinner. All had been chosen. But then as they got to the wedding guests and they were sitting in the final feast, some were not dressed for the wedding dinner. Why weren't they dressed? Because they did not have the blood of the lamb as their dinner garments. The parable of the wedding banquet is a great, great thing for all who will hear, and it shows Israel and the Gentiles. Our Lord Jesus Christ taught many parables. That's the way he taught. But look at those words. It is true, Jesus said, that many are called, but few are chosen. It is evident from the total context of the Bible that God is calling all men. And men are elected or chosen because they believe. They do not believe because they have been elected, but because of faith. Because of faith they repent. It may be appropriate here to raise the question, in what sense faith is the sole condition of salvation? The Protestant Reformation resurrected the important Christian doctrine, justification by faith alone. No one ever stated it more simply than John Wesley, yet he also preached the necessity of repentance as a prerequisite of faith. Faith comes and changes and molds people into the image of God. As you sit in churches, and as we sit in churches, there are basically five people in a pew. You have a brand new born Christian, you have a toddler, a teenager, an adult, an older person. Now that's not by ages, that's by their maturity. Some people come to a state of knowledge of Jesus Christ and never get past the baby stage. What a shame. Some people like you are here exploring your faith and growing deeper. And I commend you. But our charge is what we learn here, no matter what we learn, whatever sparks in our mind is taught, is to take it outside this wall and share the gospel. For you can do all the infilling you want, but if you don't take this and make it an outfilling, you've wasted your time. May God bless us in our study today. Thank you. According to the program, we've got a rebuttal for Calvinism. Election is unconditional by Pastor Verne. He has 10 minutes to do that. Quite a challenge to speak for 10 minutes after hearing 30 minutes, but I'll try to do my best. You can ask perhaps more questions in the question time. But some responses to things that were brought up. Dr. Ritchie had mentioned that we all are in agreement about original sin. I can't see that being the case. We agree that something happened back there in the beginning, but there's a difference, because we Calvinists believe that because of original sin, man is dead in his sins and trespasses, and man does not have the ability to come to God. Is the gospel so simple that a child can grasp it? In one sense, yes, but is it so simple that a man who is dead in his sins can grasp it? How about John 3.16, or John chapter 3, not 3.16 yet, although I want to refer to that passage as well. John 3, Jesus talking with Nicodemus. He told Nicodemus that he could not understand or enter the kingdom of God until he's born again. Jesus answered John 3.3 and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he's old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born? Jesus answered most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water in the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the spirit is spirit. To all men, grace is given. Dr. Ritchie said something of that nature. All men have the ability to come. And if that be the case, I would like to hear Dr. Rischi's explanation of many passages of scripture, some of which I quoted already, like John 15, 5, without me you can do nothing. Or Philippians 2, 13, for God works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure. Or 1 Corinthians 2, 14, but the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God. I'm not giving him a whole lot of time to think about it either, am I, as I keep going off these scriptures. or those passages like in Ephesians and Colossians, which say we are dead, or the fact that Romans three says there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks for God. Or the fact, even more so, John six forty four, no one comes to me unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up the last day. Therefore, John six sixty five, I have said to you that no one can come to me unless the father unless it has been granted to him by my father. How about Matthew chapter seven as well, where it talks about trees and fruit. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Would you say it's a good fruit to come to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith? I'd say that's a good fruit. But this says a bad tree can't bear good fruit. You cannot come unless God does a divine work in you first. Dr. Ritchie referred to Romans chapter five. I'm not exactly sure what he was getting at in that passage, but it does say, many were made righteous by Christ. Not every single one through that one man's act, but many. He referred to Matthew 11, 28. Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I believe there is a general call that goes out. Maybe I'm already getting on to the effectual call side that Mike's going to get to later. As I said, whoever so believes will be saved. There's no doubt about that. But the question is, who is it that is going to believe? And if a man is dead in sins, he's not going to believe until he is made alive. Romans 10.9 was referred to, if you believe and confess. If you trust, you won't be put to shame. I agree with that, but the question still is, can man do that apart from God's sovereign grace in his heart first? There are calls throughout scripture. I don't disagree with that, but there is an effectual call. And I'll leave that for later on, for the other debate. Matthew 23, 37 was referred to as well. Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together as as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But you were not willing. Who was the one that was not willing? Well, the whole context of the passage is described in the Pharisees. It's not not who the woe is going to. And he's saying to the scribes and Pharisees, you weren't willing to have Jerusalem, Jerusalem come. You were the one that stones the prophets. I don't have time to get into that in great detail, or otherwise I'm going to have to ignore other things. John 3.16 was not quoted, but at least refers to, God loves the whole world. Yes, I believe God loves the whole world in a general sense, but at the same time. He also says in Psalm chapter 5, and I better quote that, Psalm 5 verses 5 and 6, I believe it is. The boastful shall not stand in your sight. You hate all workers of iniquity. You shall destroy those who speak falsehood. The Lord outpours the bloodthirsty and deceitful man. John 3 16. God's love. The world is a general love, if you will, for the world in general. I preached on this this past Sunday. If you want to look at a sermon or hear a sermon, you can hear it on that same Web page. But basically, I can love. I can. I said I said to the people at Carson, I love Carson. But does that mean I love everybody in Carson in the same way? Does that mean I love every woman in Carson the same way I love my wife? I hope not. There's different ways. There's a general love. And actually, when you come down to John 3.16 as well, if the whole world is going to be interpreted that way... Actually, I'm going to go on. I'll let you ask me further questions on that or listen to it. I also want to refer, though, before I run out of time, to 1 Timothy 2, verse 3. I also preached on this passage this past Sunday, so you can hear that on the Internet as well, if you're interested in for a fuller explanation. But First Timothy two, verse three, and if you look at that, it's important to see the context of what that's referring to. First Timothy two, three. But this is good and acceptable in the sight of God, our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. Who is the all men in that passage? What does all men refer to? Look at verse one of that same passage. Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions and givings of thanks be made for all men. For kings and all who are in authority. What is all men in that passage? The all men is all kinds of men. For kings and those who are in authority, and for others as well. For the lowly, for the high, for those in the middle, for those who are servants, for those who are masters. God desires all kinds of men to be prayed for. And one of the reasons He desires all kinds of men to be prayed for is because He desires all men, all kinds of men to be saved. Does all men need to mean, in every single case, every single man, head for head? Certainly not. I recently went to Colorado. One of the women in our congregation said to me, greet everyone in Colorado for me, because she came from there. Everyone? She didn't mean every single person, head for head, but in generally. Those I see, those she knew. Saying here, God desires all men, all kinds of men, to be saved. All doesn't necessarily mean all. And if I have time, I could show you other passages of scripture where that is indeed the case. Faith. One minute, I have faith. Brothers and sisters is a gift. Let me try to show you that from the word of God as well. Faith is not something we muster up in ourselves. Faith is a gift of God. Acts 13, 48 says, Now, when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 18, 27, He greatly helped those who believed through grace. How did they believe? Through grace, not of themselves. Philippians 1, 29, For to you it has been granted. on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer. It's been granted. It's been given to you in Christ to believe faith isn't something that comes from you. And even Ephesians two eight nine says, for by grace, you can say through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God that refers not just to faith, but the whole process. Grace, salvation, faith. Thank you very much. Now, we're back to Dr. Keith Ritchie. Dr. That's impressive. And he's going to give us the rebuttal for Arminianism. Election is conditional. As I sit there, I saw a few young youngs. OK, everybody stretch out. Come on. Don't be back to it. Come on, stretch, get a chance. No, I'll take it in my time. He's already punched my clock. I can handle this. But you just punched it now. Take another stretch. Come on. See, we were sent somebody to help us. At the day of Pentecost, we were given a gift, the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what God uses to call men. And I love how it said, as we know, and I'm not, I don't have the time to cover all the Pentecost in this events, but they start talking and everyone in verse 2, 21, and everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. I'm kind of literalist. Everyone is everyone to me. The men of Israel, listen to this. Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to do many miracles, wonders, and signs which God did among you. And through him, as you yourselves know, this man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge, and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep a hold on him. And I love how it keeps going, and it keeps going. God raised this man, and we were all witnesses. I like this word, all. All in the Bible means all the people who are standing there saw it. I love, all means all. In 2 Timothy, when Timothy is receiving his instructions to be a minister, place after place in 1 and 2 Timothy, Paul refers to the word all. All. I understand that word. It doesn't say the elect, it says all. All men might be saved. I've already read these 2 Timothy 2. We have instructions to overseers and deacons in 2 Timothy 3, and in 4 it keeps going. In 4.9, this is Paul talking to Timothy, his son, his mentor that he's upbringing. This is a trustworthy sin and deserves full acceptance. And for this we labor and strive that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior for all men, and especially for those who believe. He made a difference there. All men. especially for those who believe. Paul's passing on the best he can pass on to Timothy. Paul is sharing. John, I love John. John didn't mess around when he was starting his gospel. In the very 1-1, he says, in the beginning, the Word was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was made flesh. John is a man right to the point. And in John's writings here in 1-7, It says, and he came as a witness to testify concerning the life so that through him all men might believe. We're talking about John the Baptist here. John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus. He was the one crying in the wilderness. He didn't come for some. He came for all. It's great hope. Great hope. Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John keeps going and writing in 3.16. John testified about Jesus. Timothy was told, through the entire scripture, when God says all, I believe He says all. All is an easy word, not a hard word to understand. It's not a complex word. Now, it doesn't fit all our thinking as well as we want, but place after place, after place, after place in scripture, God uses the word all. He doesn't condition it. He doesn't prerequisite. He says all. I may have a lot more time, but my argument is simple. All is all. If God wanted to say some or some other word, we're talking the one who spoke the universe into existence. If he wanted another word there, he would have put it there. God's word is a sharp two-edged sword. I know I have more time, but I'll save us some time, more time for questions and answers. I'm going to leave with the simple word all. All is all. Thank you.