All right, well, thank you, Pastor Lee, for this opportunity to share some testimony. I'm really pleased to do so, what a privilege. So let's, before I begin, I would like to do a reading from Scripture, John chapter six, the gospel of John chapter six. And it's quite a long reading. We'd like to read from verse 30 to the end. So John chapter 6, verse 30 to the end. They said, therefore, unto him, What sign showest thou then that we may see and believe thee? What dost thou work? Our fathers did eat manna in the desert. As it is written, he gave them bread from heaven to eat. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven and giveth life unto the world. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life. He that cometh to me shall never hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you that ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son and believeth on him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day.' The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard and hath learned of the Father cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat of the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father, so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not as your fathers did eat manna under dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live forever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. Many, therefore, of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying. Who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What, and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before? It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not and who should betray him. And he said, therefore said I unto you that no man can come unto me except it were given unto him of my father. From that time many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life, and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. And may the Lord bless this reading to your spirit. Amen. OK, so yeah, so yeah, Pastor Lee invited me to share some testimony. And I think Lee was expecting me to be talking about my conversion. But for me, there was two very significant events, which obviously, my conversion, which happened over 20 years ago. But then a more recent event, two years ago, what happened was I made this transition from what I would call a certain type of Christianity. Tonight I'm going to call it the attractional church, which I'll explain that in a moment. But I made the transition from that into where I am now, which I would call an authentic or doctrinal church. And that's what I would like to talk about. This experience I've had just two years ago of moving from the attractional church into a doctrinal church. And so let me explain the difference between those two things. Now here's, this is why this is interesting because when I spent 20 years in an abstractional church, when I look back on that, do you know, I don't think, I can hardly think of one instance where I shared the gospel with another person. Now that might seem very strange, and it does seem strange to say it now, but I can really say with confidence, some confidence, that for 20 years I was in church, but I did not share the gospel with anyone. And it's a good question to ask, well how can that possibly be so? Whereas after coming into a doctrinal church, I have, since two years, I have shared the gospel with many scores of people, one-to-one, but also publicly, and there's been a complete change where now I have, there's a freedom there, but a willingness, a desire to share the gospel with people. But so how could this happen? There was 20 years where that didn't happen. And it really is due, if there's a difference, between this attractional church model as compared to a doctrinal church. So what do I mean by an attractional church? And here, let me explain, because in the 20 years I spent in the attractional church, it wasn't like I wasn't doing anything. I was very busy trying to do evangelistic activities. So I was working very hard. Let me give you just three examples. One example was I organised for five years a football game, a church football game, every Monday night on an AstroTurf. Sometimes 30 people would show up. There were 50 people in the group. Like, less than half of these were people that came to the church, so there were many unbelievers, you see, and this was the idea behind it, it was to introduce people, to meet people who were Christian, and in that way for them to be drawn and introduced to Christianity through football, okay? So that was what I did, and that's something that I worked on. A second example would be, The church actually had a cafe. The financial resources of the people in the church were pooled together and enough was raised to build a building. It was a beautiful new building. Part of the building was a really nice cafe. It was very, very nice indeed. The church paid a salary for just a couple of people there, but one of them was the manager. There was a woman who was a friend of my wife's. She was the manager. She was really talented and gifted, and she managed that and ran that. But the thing, the church also, people volunteered. The church members served in the cafe without any pay and gave up their time and put it into this cafe. And I didn't serve coffee, but I did help by running a games activity on a Saturday morning in this cafe. And why did I do that? It was because There were people there from the church but also people that were not from the church and it was an evangelistic activity that I was putting my time into. Right, so a final example would be another thing I would do on a Saturday morning is do this ministry called, it was called Healing on the Streets, where we would go into town and set chairs out and a banner and it offered charismatic, miraculous healing to people, and people would come and sit down and we would pray for their healing, physical healing, and whatever ailment they had, we would offer a solution to that. Now, since my beliefs about that have miraculous healing, have since changed very much, but We won't get into that, but while I was there, that was what the beliefs that we had, and so that was another. So you see, I could list other activities that I was doing. There were many. I would say I was very busy, but I never shared the gospel with anyone. Why it's called, why would I say, you see, the thing about this is, I'm using the word attraction here, you see, because these were very attractive to people. That was the actual point of it, really. The football, people, Non-Christians enjoyed the fellowship, the friendship of Christians. For example, if you weren't very good at football, this Christian game was very inclusive and everybody was made very welcome. As for the cafe, because people were working for free, it was subsidized and the coffees were very, everything was well priced, you see, competitively priced and it was very high quality and of course if you have you know, people volunteering. They're very pretty. It's a very good service that you're getting. So people would come in off the street into this cafe and they'd say, wow, this cafe is lovely. And they'd recommend it to their friends and it would draw people in. Very attractive. I was there helping people would spend, park their children with me. And I would entertain the children playing games and so on. So, you know, I have to say that the church, the child care or youth work advertisement of churches, a lot of churches, is a very big marketing kind of edge to the youth kind of attract, is a very attractive element. And then finally, the healing on the streets. I mean, who would not be attracted by the prospect of physical healing, you know? And we were giving out these leaflets, I remember, and they would have a list of common ailments on it. And it would be, you know, do you suffer from fibromyalgia, chronic back pain? Irritable Bowel Syndrome. So I'd have a list of these things and people would obviously read it and say, yes, that's what I suffer with. And this is crippling me in my life. And they'd be moved to come forward for prayer and they'd come and sit down, you see? So this is what I would call attractional church. And this is the model in which I worked on. Now, the idea here is, of course, what's going on with this attractual mode? I think you can probably tell that the idea is, it's something about creating the conditions under which people can get to know us as Christians. So creating the conditions, then you can share the Gospel. But creating these initial conditions, because if you just share the Gospel, the thinking is going, It's just going to scare people away. People will be repelled. But if we create these conditions and attract and get people in, it's almost like trying to coax a wild animal, isn't it? Or a bird or a squirrel, a flighty bird. So you create these conditions and try and draw the person in and protect that. And then maybe at some point, it will arise, a moment will arise. But that's what you're looking for, right? But you have to create the right conditions. That's the kind of philosophy I feel that's behind it. But, you know, Brother Pastor Lee and myself, you'll remember here that this is what we hear a lot on the street whenever we go out, and instead of doing these kind of activities, we just give the plain gospel directly. People will come up to us and say, people from churches will come up to us and say, you're doing this wrong. Look, people are not listening to you. You're offending people. You're upsetting people. This is not how you share the gospel. So we get this all the time. And again, you can see right there this line between this, what I'm talking about, this attractional church, which I would say is very, very common, prevalent, and what we're doing here, which is a doctrinal church, all right? Now, my challenge here, right, to question here, the question, of course, with the attractional model. And by the way, that word, attractional, I didn't make that up, actually. If you did a search, you would see there's actually people out there saying, we're an attractional model church, and people discussing it as a method. And so it's a word. People actually consciously do that, though that wasn't something our church did, but it's what they were doing and they didn't realize it. And, you know, I mean it sort of comes, you could say, from I've read a little bit about it, like say in the 80s, there's somebody called Bill Hybels was at a very popular church in America, Willow Creek Church, but he was a successful businessman, you see, and then became, you know, a part of a huge church that was growing rapidly using these business and marketing strategies. And you can think of, I also think of like, Rick Warren and The Purpose Driven Life, and how that book, if it was on a self-help shelf, it stood out and was very attractive. And so I think of those sort of... There's a kind of... You can trace the history of this kind of movement back. But of course, the question is, with this attractional... These activities is, whenever you create the conditions and you draw people in, At what point will you challenge the person, finally, about the wrath of God for sin? So at what point are you going to bring that up? And of course, the answer to that question is, it's never. It doesn't happen. And that is what I'm talking about, what I've mentioned a few minutes ago, is that that was my experience. I never did that. I never did that. And nobody around me did that either. It just never happened. And indeed, out of interest, last night I went on to my old church's website and I had a look for a gospel and it was actually an Easter Sunday message which is where you would expect the gospel to be. And indeed, the vicar did do a sort of gospel message, okay? But what I'm going to tell you is that whenever this tractional church would draw people in, that person might be drawn in and they're in the coffee shop and They're not going to hear the gospel there. Nobody's going to mention it. But if they end up in a service, you see, it's not time yet. You see, it wouldn't happen there either. In the sermon it wouldn't happen there, it's very unlikely. But you might think they might come apart in the year when finally the message of, you know, that you are a sinner in the hands of a holy God, that that message would be expressed, you know. But the point is you have to wait a very long time. But then now I'm saying that it just doesn't happen at all. Even on Easter Sunday I listened to the message carefully and there was talk about repentance. But this is the thing you need, this is a very important point, which is that Whenever the vicar was talking about repentance, there was no sense of the seriousness of the sinner's guilt before a holy God. Repentance was just about turning away from your sin, which is really your problems, and turning towards God. The one thing you can notice, this most telling thing, is there'll be no mention of hell. And there was no mention of hell. And what I'm talking about is the holy wrath of God and his righteous wrath against sin. And what I find is that is completely missing. And you have to understand, I'm not saying that is the whole Gospel, but if you have that completely removed, do you have any Gospel? Do you have the full Gospel? And I hope you understand the answer to that question is no, you do not. If you think about it, who would go to a coffee shop and pay for a coffee and spend their time there to relax and listen to somebody tell them about God's wrath for sin? Who would do that? Are people going to do that? No, of course not. So of course it makes sense that you're not going to do that. Likewise with football or even on the streets, if you want to attract people and draw people in, in this model, people are not going to come. They're going to walk out the door. I'll just mention here that I have been reading about the time of evangelism of George Whitefield recently, and that is very interesting because, you know, I just, listening to some quotes about George Whitefield preaching at that time, and in America, and Jonathan Edwards as well was preaching at that time, like 1740s. You know, there was the future president of the USA, Benjamin Franklin. There's a quote from him. He wasn't a believer, but he was a journalist at that time before he became president. But there was a quote from him. He was in the crowd listening to Whitefield, and he said how amazed he was at how people were listening to him closely and admired him so much, even though Whitefield was telling them and assuring them that in their natural state they were half beasts and half devils. And that's what Whitefield's message was. And that was taken out of context in Whitefield's message, but it gives us a hint though of that he was challenging people of their sin. And I read a quote from Jonathan Edwards where Edwards was saying whenever he was preaching there were a few instances where people were so had struck by God's wrath for sin, that they were hit with and overwhelmed with an astonishment at their guilt in God. And you see, that was the sort of preaching that was going on there, and it was in those kind of experiences where people were crying out for mercy, you see, because they realized their need for mercy. I do think it comes to mind the passage of Isaiah where he says he's ushered into the presence of God and what does he say? He says, woe is me, I am a man of unclean lips and I'm from a people of unclean lips. Isaiah is being ushered into the holy presence of God and he realizes, but he's struck with terror, like horror, but I'm filthy. No, I'm covered in filthy rags. What hope is there for me? And then at that moment, the sinner has, by the grace of God, become senses, the possibility, the availability of grace. And it's that combination of the realization of your desperate plight, but at the same time sensing the grace of Jesus Christ. And is that not what conversion is? But you can't have one without, it needs to be both. It has to be both things. You can't have that without a sense of the need for the mercy, okay? So, yeah, so that's, So again, I just want to emphasize the need for that and what is missing from this attractional model. One thing to say then, of course, is why In this attractional model, why doesn't that happen? Why doesn't that happen? And the question I really think is, fundamentally, you don't tell people about, challenge people over sin, because what you are actually offering is not what the gospel offer is. In my previous church, in the attractional model, the question is, what is being offered and what is not being offered in the gospel? And I think whenever you, like whenever I was in the attractional church, I was a hypocrite, okay? I was a hypocrite because I was not offering what I've just described about the mercy that is available in Jesus Christ. No, I was offering, it was offering good value. It was gourmet coffee. and fellowship and it was offering physical healing and things like this. This is what was being offered and you see if you offer that stuff and people are drawn by that, then you can't then, later on, change it and offer something else. It's fundamentally hypocritical and a bit creepy to offer people, disingenuous, to be offering people this, when in actual fact that's not what the Gospel is. The Gospel is something else. So that's what the problem is and people all felt this. They felt uncomfortable because once you've drawn people in on one thing, offering these things, and then you try and say, actually what I really want to give you is this, then it's fundamentally hypocritical to do that. So that is the problem with this attractional model. And yeah, it's hypocritical. So what we read from John chapter 6, I think that really has a lot to say in this, on this topic. John chapter six is a very interesting chapter, okay, because at the start of the chapter, which we didn't read, but it begins with the Lord Jesus Christ doing a great miracle and feeding a great multitude with bread. He's just fed a great multitude by a miracle, and the people flock to him. They're attracted in great numbers to the Lord Jesus Christ. And then there's this interaction between the people and the Lord Jesus Christ. The people have flocked to him, and they're fascinated. And then by the end of chapter six, they've all gone, okay? They've all gone. And we read together, there's barely anybody left. Jesus Christ says to his disciples, are you going to go too? So it's an interesting question here about how did it go from such a multitude to there being hardly anybody left. And as you read through the chapter you see initially the people are attracted by the miracle. Then they want to make him king, because they want a political leader. They want a political solution. At long last, it's emancipation. And what does the Lord Jesus do? He frustrates them, and that desire, and he goes somewhere solitary and withdraws from them. Then he goes across the lake, and the people catch up with him. And then there is this interaction where they ask for a sign. What sign will you show us? And he frustrates them and will not give them a sign either. So then what they're asking about is they're interested in this bread. They say, give us, yeah, in verse 34, they say, then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And this is what's being talked about here. What is not on offer and what is on offer, you see? And they're saying, give us this bread. Imagine, give us this source of bread and wealth, you know? And Jesus is saying, I'm basically, that is not what is being offered here. That is not what's being offered. He's saying, you know, that was given to your fathers in the desert, but they died. What is being offered here is not a political solution or a wonderful sign or bread. That's not what is on offer that you can hear the Lord Jesus saying. What is on offer is something eternal, the bread that came down from heaven. You see, this is not what is on offer, but this is what is on offer. And that is what we read, isn't it? And that really speaks to me and this situation. So also we read here about how the people were just frustrated and they didn't get what they wanted. I'd like to illustrate this, what I think is going on here, with a story, if I may. A couple were to be wed. As is common, there was going to be a rehearsal before the wedding. But the rehearsal was the night before, because the bridegroom and best man, they lived some distance away. So they traveled there. And then this rehearsal was done. And everybody was there. It was in the church. And everybody was there that needed to be there, the minister, the father of the bride, the bridesmaids. And the ceremony rehearsal went through without any problems. It was great. But the best man and the bridegroom, they had to check in at their hotel and had to rush off so the bridegroom went into a side room where the bridesmaids and his bride were and said goodnight and rushed off and then they went and checked in. And once they had checked in with the groom and the best man, to their horror, the best man realized he didn't have the rings. He didn't have them. And as you can imagine, they were really anxious about this and vexed. and they couldn't find them anywhere and they realised they must be back at the church. So they rushed back to the church and there was no one around and the groom at one point went into the side room and then to his relief he saw that he had put them there whenever he was saying goodnight to his bride. But as he collected them, to his surprise he heard that the bridesmaids and bride were still there in an adjacent room and he overheard the bridesmaid say to his bride, oh what joy this is for you that you're going to be married tomorrow. And I hear his bride say, yes, I do have so much joy that I am marrying this man and that I will be able to spend the rest of my life with him in this marriage. And also that I will be able to live in that beautiful house which he owns. Now, I wonder what you're thinking. Are you thinking with me that how would that bridegroom feel after hearing that statement? Now, if you were the best man, would you not expect the best man to say to that bridegroom, call this off, call this off? Because on hearing that, wouldn't the bridegroom be heartbroken? to hear his bride say such a thing, where affections were divided in that way. Yes, she wanted to marry him for who he is, but also for this house. Wouldn't the best man say to the groom, don't go through with this tomorrow. Don't go through with it, because it's a dishonor unto you if you go through with this, because the bride's devotion is not pure, if that makes sense. So that was the point of telling that story. So that's why, It's talking about what is on offer and what is not on offer. You see, that is what I hear whenever we read from the Lord Jesus' words here. I just want to read them again. He says, I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. And the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. And then Jesus said unto them, verse 53, Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life. and I will raise him up at the last day, for my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father, so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. You see, this is what is on offer in the gospel. It is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And that is what is being offered. It is him. And that is, in the moment of conversion, it's not about these other things. You can only enter into this, you can only cross that line into conversion if you have devotion for the Lord Jesus himself, for the Bridegroom. And it needs to be single. And to add on any added, any other things into that is to dishonour the Bridegroom, is it not? Isn't it not? an absolute disgrace to offer coffee and to add in, you know, we have physical afflictions are very real, of course, I don't mean to diminish them, but compared to what is being offered here, in the Lord Jesus Christ, it is shameful to offer such things like a list of ailments, to add that into the mix along with what's being offered in the Lord Jesus Christ. So this is why such a church is ultimately, it is, I believe it disgusts me now because I see it as dishonoring to my Lord in order to mix in such things with what is being offered here. And yeah, that is the change, that is why the attractional church does not work. And now, Now, of course, we see in this as well, don't we, that we see that there are people who, when they are offered this, the true offer, the real offering, when they are offered that, they reject it. And we can read about them in this passage where they say, this is a hard saying, and they grumble. And the Lord Jesus says in that, which is of course the truth, he says, no one can come to me except the Father draws him. And this is the thing, isn't it, that no one will be given, it's those who are given the eyes to see, the value of this bridegroom, the eyes to see the worthiness of this and the attractiveness of this bridegroom. And I myself will just testify that, for me, all I long for is after this life, I just long to be in the presence of Jesus Christ. to be in His presence and to serve Him. As He girded Himself and used the towel to clean, wash the feet of His disciples, I want that opportunity in eternity to just express what a glorious God He is, and to worship Him forever. And that is what I look forward to, and that is what my treasure is. It doesn't matter about the things of this world, it's the treasure in heaven that I long for and which is the opportunity to serve my God. And I just long hope, I just think of being given a role or something to do that would just please my Saviour and would honour Him. And if I could do that and if He would enable me to do that in a way that was And that is what I long for, and that is what is attracting me, you see. And all of these other things, they're just distractions compared to that. So I'd just like to say, yeah, so there's two things that will come out of this, I would say. The first one is that whenever we are giving the gospel message, whenever we are sharing, all we offer is what is on offer. which is the mercy and grace that is available in the Lord Jesus Christ. And we present the beautiful Savior to people and nothing else. And that is our gospel offer. And that is what we do. And we do not mix in any other things. And then the second thing is to think about, which I like to think about, we could think about on this, which is that us who have received this offer, Whenever we have received it, we have that relationship with the bridegroom and we have that commitment now. Even if our afflictions are very great, if the beautiful house burns down and goes down in flames, that love that God has given us for the Saviour, the love endures, doesn't it? It endures. It goes on. Even though we have these great afflictions and people could look at us and say, you know, you are a Christian and you have received that doctrine and that faith, but you're in poverty. you're afflicted with great illnesses, what is the benefit of that? And of course they can't see, but for us it's actually an opportunity because we have our bridegroom and it's actually an opportunity to say, to express that and for that to be manifest, our faith to be proved. to be shown, and we say, this is an opportunity, we've lost everything, and we love the bridegroom, we still have him, and that's what matters. And so we can give testimony in our afflictions and even in these trials, and so we don't have to wait for the next life, even in this life we can do that, and that enduring love can be manifest in us. And isn't that a great thing? And may we seize every opportunity and not let an opportunity pass to display the glorious value of our precious Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. Feel free to contact us at Sovereign Grace Church in Tiverton. Email us at grace2seekers at gmail.com. That's grace2seekers at gmail.com. Alternatively, you can visit our website at www.sovereigngracereformedchurch.co.uk.