Let me go ahead and begin with a word of prayer and ask the Lord's blessing upon our time of study. Okay, let's pray. From the rising of the sun to the place where it sets, may the name of the Lord be praised. We are here to do just that today, oh God. We pray that you will help us to study your truths, to consider your word that you've preserved throughout the centuries and delivered to us at the hands of faithful men. We pray that you will point us to Christ most of all today and help us to see him clearly with eyes of faith. May your people be edified. May sinners be convicted and drawn to him by the power of his spirit. We pray all of this in his name. Amen. Well, we continue this morning in our series through the Pilgrim's Progress. I think most of you have been here for the majority of this series so far, and hopefully, like me, you've really been enjoying it. This is Chapter 11, I think? Yes, Chapter 11, The Pilgrims Meet Talkative. It's quite a lengthy chapter, and most of it is dialogue, so fair warning this morning, I'll be reading some large chunks from the book. Hopefully that's not a bad thing. I mean, Bunyan's writing is better than my explanation of it, so might as well just read what he's already put on paper. Let's begin with a little bit of review. Hopefully you got a handout. That's just to kind of tell you where we're going this morning and what we're going to be covering. I highly doubt we're going to get through all of this, so we will adapt as necessary. By way of review, from the Palace Beautiful, which was atop the what? Hill of Difficulty, down into the Valley of where? Humiliation. Down further into the Valley of? the shadow of death, Christian has had quite the journey in recent days, as far as the story goes, and much of his recent experiences have been, well, dark and difficult. But the light of day was breaking upon his path. Out of the valley, out of the valley of the shadow of death, Christian meets a fellow traveler in the way, and his name is Faithful. Faithful. Now, Christian and faithful really hit it off, and they were both grateful to God for His providence in bringing them together. In the entirety of the last scene last week with John Barth that we studied, the entirety of that scene was set within the context of conversation between these two fellow believers in the way. It was a conversation of sweet fellowship between two Christians who had much in common. They had differences in their testimonies, too. Christian and faithful, well, they were both from the city of destruction. And faithful left after Christian had already left. Christian was well on his way to the Celestial City before Faithful ever even left his home in the City of Destruction. So the question is, how did Faithful get in front of Christian in the way? How did he get ahead of him? It's a tortoise and the hare scenario. Airplanes, false. Any other ideas? He skipped over some things. Someone else said something? He bypassed the slough, the swamp. He didn't have to fall into Despond right out of the city, did he? No. What else, Chad? He's had an extra amount of grace. That's right. It seems so, at least in some ways. He didn't fall to despond. He didn't fall asleep at the arbor halfway up the hill of difficulty and have to turn back and then end up at Palace Beautiful facing lions at night like Christian did. In fact, he didn't have any trouble with the lions outside the palace because they were sleeping in the middle of the day. If you've ever been to the zoo in the middle of the day and your kids want to go see the lions, that's pretty much the worst time to go see the lions because they're sleeping. He didn't have a run-in with Apollyon in the Valley of Humiliation, and he walked through the Valley of the Shadow of Death at daytime as well. How Christian must have heard these things from his new fellow traveler and marveled at them, marveled to hear the relative ease of Faithful's journey so far compared to his own. But at the same time, Faithful didn't have it completely easy, did he? No, he had his own difficulties that Christian didn't encounter. Christian didn't meet discontent. He wasn't tempted by wanton. He didn't face shame like faithful had to. And isn't Bunyan's description of these two different pilgrims and their different experiences so much like the different experiences of Christian pilgrims today? How often are we tempted to look at a fellow believer's life and their walk with the Lord and wonder, oh, why do they not struggle like I do? Why is their road been so easy and mine so bumpy? But the comparison game is a game of futility. As Bunyan illustrates for us, just with these two individual characters, we all have our own individual Christian experiences, both victories as well as trials and temptations in our own individual walks with the Lord. And I think the same goes for when we see brothers and sisters struggling with sin, sins that maybe we've never been tempted to fall into. And in those times, We may struggle even with our own pride. Oh, how could they struggle with that? I've never had to struggle with that sin. Oh, man. But like Christian, who was running to catch up with faithful and passed him, and then smirked as he passed him, looking over his shoulder like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. What happened? Pride goes before the fall. And that's exactly what we see Christian doing. He trips. He trips as he passes him, falls flat on his face because of that kind of pride. So here's the point. We may all be on the same road to the same destination, but our experiences along this journey are going to vary from one person to another. Even between people in the same church or the same family, even the same marriage, husbands and wives are going to struggle with different sins and temptations. No two Christian testimonies are going to be exactly alike. Well, with that as our review, let's jump into the text for this morning. We pick up with this section on page 103, if you have this modern English version of the book. And as I kind of mentioned at the beginning, by way of a disclaimer, I'm going to be reading from the book quite a bit here because while some sections are full of just narrative and Bunyan telling us what's happening, here he shows us through the dialogue of these characters. So we'll read it kind of in real time and I'll make comments as we go. We come to this character named Talkative. Barry Horner introduces a scene with Talkative by saying this, in contrast with the aggressive, blatant opposition of Apollyon, Christian and faithful now encounter an opposite approach whereby Talkative, as an agent of Satan, uses the underhand, deceptive ruse of the apostate. And what is that ruse? Talking. That's it. Speech. And we'll see that it's hypocritical speech at that. We open this new scene with the author's description of talkative. And notice firstly what the two pilgrims, which of the two pilgrims Bunyan says looks over to the side and notices another man walking. Who is it that notices? In the first sentence. Faithful. It's faithful. Bunyan tells us the man's name, Talkative, and of course the name itself, it says an awful lot about what we're supposed to know about this character. We're given a physical description of him as well. What are we told about this guy named Talkative? Physically speaking. How does Bunyan describe him? Two things. What's that? Tall and better looking. Better looking? Yeah. Better looking far away. Tall and handsome. The opposite of the guy with the microphone this morning. He's a tall man, and I was wondering about that. I don't know if that's an accidental description here by Bunyan, that talkative happens to be tall. Nothing against tall people, maybe a little against tall people, but nothing really against tall people here when I say that. I wonder if he's adding here that talkative is looking down on other people. Is that what you tall people do? You just spend your whole lives looking down on the rest of us? Chad. There you go. That's right. So there's a reference. Good, Chad. Tall and ruggedly handsome, I think we're told about Saul in 1 Samuel. Good. But he's also looking down on people. But he also mentions that he was better looking, as Trey said, at a distance than up close. What do you think that means? What's that? True of all of us. As we'll see, anyone who knows talkative, like Christian, has past experience with him. Anyone who's had past experience with him knows that his talk doesn't quite add up to a credible profession of faith. In fact, it doesn't stand the test of scripture when we are looking for the work of God in a person's heart being worked out in a regenerated and sanctified life. It just doesn't add up. And so at a distance, he sounds good. We'll see this more as we go. But up close, if you know anything about him, it's full of bunk. All right. Secondly, talkative's pilgrimly profession. We read talkative's own words here. Faithful comes to him and says, hey, friend, are you going to the heavenly country? "'Yes,' answered Talkative. "'I'm going to that place.' "'Well, that's good,' said Faithful. "'Then I hope we may have your company.'" Look how quick Faithful is to join in with him. "'Gladly,' replied Talkative. "'I would be pleased to be your companion.' "'Come on then,' said Faithful. "'Let's go together and spend our time discussing profitable things.'" But right away, the discerning reader might spot some red flags here. Talkative is very agreeable to go along with these two strangers that he just meets. There's an immediate willingness from both talkative and faithful to walk together. Meanwhile, as we'll see in a moment, where's Christian? Oh, he's hanging back. Third, we see talkative's conversational interests. Listen to some of the conversation here between talkative and faithful. Talkative says, talking with you or with anyone about things that are good is very acceptable to me. I'm glad to have met with those who are inclined to do such a good work. To tell you the truth, there are only a few who care to spend their time in such a way while they're traveling. Most would rather choose to speak of unprofitable things, and this has troubled me. Oh, that really is a thing to be deplored, responded Faithful. What is more worthy of the use of the tongue and mouth of people on earth than to speak of the things of the God of heaven? And we'd all say amen, Faithful. Oh, I really like the way you talk, says Talkative. For you speak with conviction. And in addition, what is more pleasant and more profitable than the talk of the things of God? What pleasantness, someone may ask, that is, if one has delight in things that are wonderful? Well, for instance, if people enjoy talking about the history or mystery of things, or if they love to talk about miracles, wonders, or signs, where shall they find things recorded so delightfully and so sweetly written as in Holy Scripture? That's true, says Faithful, but it should be our intention to be profited by such things in our discussion. That's what I said, says Talkative, for talking of such things is most profitable. By doing so, a person may acquire knowledge of many things in general, the meaningless nature of earthly things, and the beneficial nature of things above. But more particularly, by talking like this, a person may learn the necessity of the new birth, the insufficiency of our works, the need of Christ's righteousness, and so forth. Besides, by this a person may learn what it means to repent, believe, pray, suffer, and the like. People may also learn, for their own comfort, what the great promises and encouragements of the gospel are. Furthermore, by this pursuit, one may learn to refute false opinions, to vindicate truth, and learn also to instruct the ignorant." Faithful's listening to this, and he's nodding right along. "'All this is true,' he says. I'm glad to hear these things from you. Alas, exclaims Talkative, the lack of this is the reason so few understand the need of faith and the necessity of work of grace in their soul in order to obtain eternal life. Most live ignorantly in the works of the law, through which no one can by any means obtain the kingdom of heaven. And so we encounter this Intro to talkative and who he is and how he talks, he likes to discuss things that he deems good and profitable for him. Red flag. So what is profitable or unprofitable according to talkative? Well, we're going to find out by the end of this scene. I'll say this for now, good and profitable according to talkative are not the same as good and profitable according to scripture, according to God. Faithful continues, well then, what is the one thing which we shall now begin our discussion? This is my favorite, what talkative says here, whatever you like. I'll talk about heavenly things or earthly things, conforming things or evangelical things, sacred things or profane things, foreign things or domestic things, essential things or incidental things, as long as we can profit by all of it. Sounds like a Dr. Seuss book. Thing one, thing two, thing three, thing four, whatever you wanna talk about, I'll talk about it and more. What does faithfuls take on this new fellow traveler here? Well, he's quite taken by him, isn't he? In listening to talkative prattle on about things spiritual, things earthly, things doctrinal, things even biblical. Could you hear the biblical resonance of things that Talkative was saying? You're like, oh yeah, that sounds like he's piecing together verses from scripture. Oh good, we have the same Bible. We have the same foundation here. Well, Faithful finds him nodding along and agreeing with all the things Talkative's saying. Aye, what you're saying is true. Faithful comments more than once in the earlier parts of their conversation. This is great. You're a brave and true companion, Talkative. Ken Pouls comments on this, and he mentions that Talkative is bold, enthusiastic, and well-spoken. Faithful, Pouls says, begins to wonder and is soon convinced that his new companion will make a very excellent pilgrim. He goes on to list, Pouls goes on to list some of Talkative's commendable qualities. And just listen to some of these commendable qualities. He says, Talkative is cordial and gratified by the company of other pilgrims. He's fervent in how he speaks of his faith. He's walking the path of a pilgrim toward the heavenly country. They're going to the same place. He enjoys most talking about the things of God. He expresses delight in God's Word, and he seems to know his Bible well. He sees value in learning and knowing doctrine. He's concerned that there is little understanding of the gospel of grace. No one could accuse him of being a Mormon. He's already done away with, verbally speaking, salvation by works, hasn't he? He knows it's God's grace and the righteousness of Christ which saves a person. He knows that in his head, and he's able to rattle that off. He affirms salvation by grace alone, apart from works. He's willing to address any subject, provided that the conversation is profitable. And I will say that he finds it profitable to him. There's a subtle self-servingness in talkative's desire to converse with other people. So at first glance, all this to say, maybe Talkative is a sincere believer. Maybe we're being too harsh on him, right? Maybe Faithful sees what's accurate here. Faithful thinks that he's genuine, and to Faithful's defense, if we would, it's not like there's anything that Talkative has said so far that's necessarily or substantively wrong, is there? No. I mean, we kind of have to dig in a little bit and make some assumptions here. But then again, this is where the red flag is, I think. He's not really saying anything of much substance at all. Not substantively wrong, but when there's no substance to begin with, well, that's a red flag. So faithful... In beginning his conversation, getting excited about meeting Talkative, he says, oh, he hits a pause button. And he goes and finds Christian. He steps back to confer with his friend, his earlier friend, who, as Bunyan tells us, had now been walking alone. Faithful goes back and he says to Christian, what a fine companion we have found here, don't you think? This man will make a good pilgrim. And here we see, I think, Faithful's immaturity. I think what we have here is a young and zealous Christian who lacks the knowledge. There's a level of ignorance, naivete, that Faithful is demonstrating. Thomas Scott says, zealous and lively Christians who are not well established in judgment and experience are often greatly taken with the discourse of persons who speak with great fluency and speciousness on various subjects with a semblance of truth and piety." And that sums up talkative. To put it plainly, faithful lacks discernment here. And how does one gain discernment? Well, by reading and knowing the words of God's Word. By applying God's Word to situations like this one. So if Faithful had considered what God had already told us about human speech and the tongue, he may have had his defenses up more than he did. And this leads us to ask, what does God's word say about words? And what does he say about speech and the tongue from which words come? And I want to take a look at some of these passages because I think this is just such a big point that Bunyan is making here about words and actions in this entire section on talkative. So, grab your Bible with me and you can turn to some of these as I read them. In James, we'll begin with James. These aren't necessarily any particular order, but James has a lot to say about the tongue, doesn't he? He says in James 3, beginning at verse 5, So also the tongue is but a small member, and yet it boasts of great things. How great a forest, James says, is set ablaze by such a small fire. And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. That's a scary thought about the power of the tongue. But James, being the Proverbs of the New Testament, echoes what Proverbs 18.21 says, that death and life are in the power of the tongue. And all those who love it will eat its fruits. You want to talk, you want to prattle on, you want to be all that that is, and only all that that is, well, you'll eat that fruit one day. You'll be held accountable for every word. Ecclesiastes 5 is so full of wisdom here, and we read in verse 2, do not be rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God. This is in the context largely of oaths and vows, but I think it applies to our common everyday speech. For God is in heaven, the teacher says, and you are on earth. Therefore, let your words be few. James 1.19 says similarly. My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to talk a whole lot, Say a bunch of things. No, everyone should be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to become angry. Parents, that's a great verse to have your children memorize. I know I had to as a child. In fact, I have to remind myself of that as an adult nearly daily. Be quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry. And I want to make a point here, pause and hit a point here about this character, Talkative. I was talking with someone about this this week. They were asking me what I was working on and I was telling them what we're studying in Sunday school and talkative. I made the point to him that talkative, when Bunyan puts him here, he's not calling out a personality quirk. We all know people who are good socializers, good conversationalists, and just like to talk. Maybe there's a level of self-control issues from time to time that can be addressed, for sure. And I'm not saying that some of those things are without sin. But I don't think Bunyan's talkative is being called out here for his personality. No, I think he's being called out here for his heart. his heart issues. Talkative, we'll see, speaks of the things of faith as if he were a recipient of them and a partaker in them, but he wasn't. And so spiritually speaking, talkative is empty, which makes his words empty words. So all that to say, I think there is an application to, yes, let our words be few. But we need to see here that that's not what Bunyan is necessarily calling out, or people that like to talk more than an introvert or a shy person. Yes, Pastor John. Yeah. So talkative had a full mouth and empty heart. And we say, yeah, that's spot on. Also, the other point Pastor John made was that a lot of times, especially younger believers can be taken with those that speak very eloquently and have a lot of head knowledge. And so we're going to talk about that in a moment and how important it is to be a part of a church and a community of believers that have more mature believers that can help us be more discerning. Jacob, did you have a comment or question? Yes, both. The question is, is Talkative aware that he's not a genuine believer, or is he self-deceived? I think he's deceived himself, but I think he's aware. Yeah, Darryl? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So Daryl just said he's probably sat under good teaching and preaching for years, probably in the context of the church. Not necessarily, though, especially in the day of the internet today. But in Bunyan's day, yes. Yeah, that's where he would have learned these truths. Yes, Ken? And then we're going to move on. Yeah, there are a lot of teachers out there in churches that are teaching mostly gospel, but it's a watered down gospel. So we know that the Lord Christ preserves his word and he uses means and he uses the weaknesses of men to communicate his truth. So yeah, I think the focus here is on a man who is self-deceived and looking to deceive. James 1.26, let me go through the rest of these passages and we'll continue on, says, if anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Each of these apply to talkative. Titus 3.9, but avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. The point here, Scripture tells us what kinds of conversations are profitable and unprofitable. And there are certain conversations and certain people who want to have those conversations that's just not worth our time. Ephesians 4.29, and that's so important for us to even think about in today's day and age with access to internet debates. Just don't. I'm preaching to myself as well. It's so easy to try to, you know, well, we got to correct everyone else. No, we don't. Ephesians 4.29, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, that is profitable, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." Talkatives words are empty words. They're not gracious, full of grace words. And in the next chapter, Paul says in Ephesians 5, 4, "...let there be no filthiness, nor foolish talk, nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving." You see, talkative may not be here just spewing profanities like a pagan. He's not offering crude jokes. But where is his thanksgiving? Ephesians 5, 6, "...let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience." Because of empty words. The wrath of God is going to fall on sinners. As I read and hear talkative off the page here, I can't help but think of a musical. How many of you have seen a version of the musical, The Music Man? Mr. Harold Hill, it's a good one, right? He's almost like a snake oil salesman, you know, coming into town and getting people all riled up. And I think that's, you know, kind of a glimpse of talkative here. You got trouble, folks, right here in River City. Yeah, trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with P, which stands for pool, right? Don't open a pool hall here in River City. Proverbs 10, 19, when words are many, transgression is not lacking. That goes for all of us, that's just wisdom. The more we speak, the more likely we are to get into trouble. Alexander White comments here, but it goes on in verse 19 of Proverbs 10, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent. Alexander White says, with many men and many women, great talkativeness is a matter of simple temperament and mental constitution. He's saying what I was just saying. Some people just are more verbose. They're just going to talk more than others. And a talkative habit would be a childlike and an innocent habit if the heart of the talker and the hearts of those to whom he talks so much were only full of truth and love. But our hearts and our neighbors' hearts, being what they are, in the multitude of words, there wanteth not sin. So much of our talk, White says, is about our absent neighbors, and there are so many misunderstandings and prejudices, ambitions, competitions, oppositions, and all kinds of cross interests between us and our absent neighbors that we cannot long talk about them till our hearts have run our tongues into a matter of trespass. Well, faithful lacks discernment, but we see next Christians' biblical discernment. What about Christian? Does Christian have the same response after listening to talkative talk? No, no. He sees through it plain as day. He replies to Faithful's exuberance for Talkative like a needle that pops a balloon in a child's face. We read in the middle of page 105, Christian gives this modest smile to Talkative, who says, you know, isn't he so great? Or excuse me, to Faithful, who says, isn't Talkative so great? And Christian just gives him this modest smile, this little smirk, and says, The man who is so impressed you will beguile or trick or deceive 20 people with his tongue." And Faithful is taken aback. Wait, what? Are we talking about the same guy? You know this guy? Faithful asks. And Christian says, yes, I know him better than he even knows himself. Well, how? How do you know him? What can you tell me about him? Faithful wants to know and Christian opens up like, I thought you would never ask. Thank you for this opportunity to tell you and to warn you." Well, talkative is his name, Christian tells Faithful, and he's from the same town that we are. I'm surprised you haven't heard of him, Faithful. He's the son of a man named Saywell, and he lives over on Gabby Row. He's really a sorry fellow, Christian says. Faithful is still confused. He doesn't get it. He says at the top of page 106, well, he seems to be a handsome man. In other words, he seems all right to me at all appearances. At first light, he seems like a good, decent guy. He dresses nice enough. He sounds good. What's the issue? And Christian seeks to set his new friend straight. You don't know him, Faithful. He's at his best when he's far from home, like here on the road with us. And then Bunyan gives this callback to that earlier description of talkative, that he looks better at a distance than up close. And Christian alludes to that very thing in a piece of art and says, well, that's talkative for you. I don't know if you've ever seen one of those Impressionist paintings. I love Impressionist art. But you get up close and it's like, what is this? You've got to back up. The 90s version of that was those 3D things where you've got to cross your eyes to see it. Up close, it doesn't look that good. It's just a whole bunch of pfft on a canvas. That's talkative. So here we see Christian's discernment. An example of the difference between Christian maturity in Christian and faithful with regards to discernment. I think another way that Bunyan's making the point that every believer has their different strengths and different weaknesses. But a further point to be made here is that the more discerning, maybe the more mature believer ought to come alongside the less discerning. maybe the newer believer or the less mature believer and offer guidance and wisdom and encouragement and do it with patience and with love. We can all do that with one another. So when somebody possibly more discerning comes alongside you to warn you about something maybe that you're doing or something that they've seen you say or seen you being taken up by, It's incumbent upon you to do as faithful does here and listen to them, to take heed of the warning of the person coming alongside you. And just another short tangent here, going back to something that Professor Barth mentioned last week. Friendship is such an important part of this story and specifically this scene, not just among humans in kind of a common grace, perspective, but specifically among believers. What a blessing it was for Christian and faithful to meet and to get to experience this fellowship together in the way. But for believers, we find fellowship in the context of the church. Yes, we can have fellowship and good relationships with those outside of the membership of Grace Covenant Church. Of course we can. But the best fellowship, it seems, the most intimate fellowship between Christians, and often the most lasting fellowship that we can experience on earth is right here within the membership of whatever church family God has placed us. Well, this calls back to something else, though. At the bottom of page 96 in the last scene, Christian asked Faithful, didn't you stop at the house on top of the hill of difficulty? And Faithful says, no, I saw it, but there was so much daylight left in the day, I decided to just continue on my way without a stop there. Christian replies, oh, how I wish for your sake you had stopped there because of all the wonderful treasures you would have found, things that you would remember all throughout the rest of your journey. And so I'm going to say this here. I don't know that Faithful would have had as much difficulty in spotting the red flags in Talkative if he had stopped at the Palace Beautiful, if he had been a part of the church. To translate this to real life today, the local church is a safeguard against error and those who teach error. There's wisdom in a multitude of counselors, so thankfully, Faithful had Christian there. In a church like ours, there's a confessional standard against which the ideas of men may be judged, with the ultimate authority, of course, being God's Word itself. So there are safety mechanisms and guardrails within healthy churches to protect individual pilgrims who are falling in with the likes of people like talkative, people who talk a big game, who may get certain doctrines right, but don't know for themselves the substance of religion because they've never been converted. Scott says this in commenting here, he said, Man of this stamp can take up at any point in religion with great ease and speak on it in a pompous, ostentatious manner. But the humble believer forgets himself, while from his inmost heart he expatiates on topics which he longs to recommend to those whom he addresses." And I think this is the thing that Bunyan's getting at with this character, that he is a hypocrite. And we'll see that clearly at the end of the scene. Matthew 23, 3 is referenced here. So do and observe, Jesus says, whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. Speaking of the Pharisees of his day. For they preach, but do not practice. 1 Corinthians 4, 20. For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk, but in power. And 1 Thessalonians 1, 5, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we've proved to be among you for your sake. And this is why we pray each Lord's Day. Lord, give us the full power and conviction of the Holy Spirit as we seek to preach your word. May it not just be the speech of men, but the words of Christ accompanied by the power of the Holy Spirit that affects and changes hearts and lives. Well, said Faithful after listening to Christian's warning. He seems to be a very handsome man. Christian says, well, you don't have good knowledge of him. We already covered that. Faithful's still not buying this. He just can't believe what Christian is telling him. And he says, I'm tempted to think that you're joking here. Because you did smile a second ago. And Christian answered quickly, God forbid that I should jest in this manner, though I did smile, or that I should accuse anyone falsely. I'll give you further information about him. This man is happy with any company, and he's for any conversation. Just as he talks with you now, he'll talk when he's sitting on the bar stool. And this line is great. And the more drink he has in his head, I think the older version says, the more drink he has in his crown, the more of these things he has in his mouth. What's that Latin phrase? In vino veritas or something like that? With more drink, there's more talk and truth. Everything he has, Christian says, lies in his tongue, and making a noise with it is his religion. He's a clanging gong. You don't say, interjected Faithful. Then I've been greatly deceived by this man. Deceived as Christian, you can be sure of it. You've been deceived. Talkative, we see here how he accurately cites theology while lacking the personal experience of it. Christian says, they say and do not, but the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. He talks of prayer, of repentance, of faith, and of the new birth, but he only knows how to talk about them. That's not so hard, right? I could talk about these things, but do I have the experience of these things in my own heart and life? Do I experience and live out repentance and faith and prayer? Talkative's knowledge of systematic theology, even of Calvinism, we could say, might be impressive. But while he can do these things, he has no authentic experience in these areas. And so we must beware of those who try to impress us with how much they know about theology. They work hard at learning and keeping up with all of the latest theological debates that may be going on in the world of X or Facebook or something, in the halls of the seminaries. The talkatives of today have an easier time finding a platform for themselves, I think, than they did even back in Bunyan's day. Because the internet, there's so much anonymity with the internet. We don't know who these people are when they are at home because we don't know who they are when they're being talkative on the internet. And it's so easy these days to start your own podcast or your own ministry Who sent you? Who planted you? You know, you can even start your own church today without accountability. To write articles or publish books without an editor or peer review. Given the opportunity, these talkatives could astound the average believer with their knowledge and convincing talk on many matters of faith, but their absence of intimacy with God and their lack of familiarity with practical Christianity will eventually expose them for who they really are. If not in this life, at the day of judgment." Well, Christian's past observations indicate the talkative is a saint abroad while a devil at home. He says, I visited his family. I mean, he lived right just around the corner on Gabby Row, remember? I visited him where he lives, I've seen him inside his house, I've observed him both at home and away, so I know what I'm telling you is the truth. And he says, his home is as empty of true religion as the white of an egg is void of flavor. At his residence, there is neither prayer nor sign of repentance to sin. To all who know him, he is the very stain, reproach, and shame of true religion." Romans 2, 24 and 25. He's got a reputation in the city of destruction. The common people there, they know him as a saint abroad and a devil at home, and his family can agree that he's a meanie and a rascal. Christian says, well, consider his servants. He treats them with bitterness. Consider his business associates, men that would do business with him. They say that he doesn't even know what a fair contract looks like. It's better to deal with a Turk, and you can see the end note there on, I think it's end note seven, you know, a barbarian trader than with him. He's a sham and a sham in all his dealings. Talkative also is the cause of many stumbling at the truth. He's caused others to fall away. Christian replies to faithful, had I not known him better than you, it's possible I might have thought of him at first as you did. Yes, if he'd earned his reputation only at the hands of those who are enemies of religion, I would have thought it had been slander. A lot of things like that fall from the mouths of bad men upon the names and professions of good men. You know, if I had heard these things about talkative from just those who were antagonistic to the things of Christ, I would have reason to pause. But I can prove him guilty of all these things, Christian goes on, yes, and a lot more just as bad from my own experiences. Besides, good men are ashamed of him and call him neither friend nor brother. If they know him, the mere mention of his name among them makes them blush. Well, says Faithful, I see that talking and doing are two different things. So after this, I'll pay closer attention to that distinction. That's good. That's good that we see that in faithful. Barry Horner writes, the attitude of Christian in this unsavory exposure was governed by good motives concerning the cause of truth and righteousness. Christian's not out to, this isn't coming from a place of jealousy. Well, you and I just became friends and he'd be a third wheel in our friendship. It's not like, hey, we've got a good thing going, let's just keep talking. No, it's not personal, there's no vendetta here. He has good intentions for the cause of truth and righteousness, for the reputation, Horner says, of Christ's gospel, not as vindictive, self-righteous spirit that revels in gossiping concerning the misfortune and degradation of others. It is not the enemies of the truth who make these charges against Talkative, but rather it is godly and good men that make such accusations. They are ashamed at such a masquerade and especially bemoan the fact that talkative causes biblical Christianity to be scorned." That's the concern here for Christian, and that now his friend Faithful is being caught up in it. Christian gives him all these illustrations that are just wonderful, and for the sake of time, we'll have to move through them quickly, but he illustrates how distinct talking and doing really are. And he gives, I think, at least three or four illustrations. One is of the soul and the body. He says they're diverse as soul and body. The body without the soul is what? It's just a dead carcass. It's a hollow thing. The soul of true religion, that's the practical part. That's so good. Pure and undefiled religion, as James 1 talks about. In the sight of God, the Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Talkative doesn't get that. He thinks that hearing and saying alone will make him a Christian pilgrim. And so he is self-deceived in that way. There's the illustration of sowing and reaping at the top of, I think, page 105, maybe? 108? Yes. Good. So the illustration of sowing and reaping. Many hearers will be consigned to hell at the day of judgment. And what distinguishes proper hearing is the fruit that comes forth that's been planted. He gives the illustration from the Law of Moses. Faithful actually gives this with an illustration of his own. It's taken from the Law of Moses. There are two essential characteristics of a clean animal. In Israel, clean animals, and we get this in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, clean animals were identified by two characteristics of their mouth and their feet. Their mouth had to chew the cud and their feet had to have a divided hoof. Animals were considered unclean if either the activity of their mouth or the character of their feet was inconsistent with God's description. What a great illustration we have here, then, for identifying genuine Christians. Their talk and their walk must be consistent with God's description. Otherwise, we can call them unclean. What would make faithful compares talkative to what type of animal? Well, a rabbit. Is a rabbit clean or unclean? He could talk, but what would make him unclean? Well, his feet would. He could talk the talk, but he didn't walk the what. So if rabbit represents biblical talk, what kind of animal would represent biblical walk but unbiblical talk? A pig. A pig. Anyway. There's a lot there. And then one more illustration that he gives is the illustration of spiritual gifts and graces in 1 Corinthians 13, verses 1 and following. Paul uses his hyperbole there to indicate the extent to which a religious man may be gifted and yet lack spiritual life and graces. He already kind of mentioned the clinging, the clinging gong without love. And we'll get into this more in a moment. Well, moving forward here, how does faithful's perceptive of talkative change in this discussion with Christian? Does it change? Yes. I see heads nodding. That's good. Yes, it does change. Quick aside, I think this is one of the things that marks the difference in characters in Bunyan's story, but even in real life. If you've taken intro to literature or some kind of English class, you probably know the difference between a static and a dynamic character in a story, right? A static character doesn't change. There's no significant change they undergo, whereas a dynamic character does change. And I think all of the Christian characters, the converted, regenerate characters, undergo a dynamic change, right? They're dynamic. And that's what we see here in Faithful. There's growth, there's maturation, there's change in his mind and heart. where none of the unconverted characters can say that. Horner says, since Christian is a man of good reputation, showing at this point some qualities of eldership even, faithful yields to his perceptive estimate of talkative, for he senses it has been intended for his good. And that's good on faithful. We should praise the Lord for his humility and willingness to be quick to listen. Proverbs 18.15 says, an intelligent heart acquires knowledge and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge. So Faithful, he went to Christian and he listened and he acquired some important knowledge regarding this stranger. There's also a good illustration here of just a couple of verses later, Proverbs 18.17, the first one to plead his case seems right until his neighbor comes and examines him. And That's what Christian does. Talkative was the first to plead his case to faithful. Faithful found him convincing until Christian comes and sheds new light on the matter. So first impressions are not always accurate. Remember what Faithful first said to Christian about Talkative? He says, well, what a fine companion we've got here. He'll make an extremely good fellow traveler with us, but now look how his perceptions changed. Talkative's company for Faithful has lost all of its appeal, so much so that he now asks Christian, I wasn't so fond of his company before, but now I'm sick of it. What should we do to get rid of him? And what does Christian answer faithful? What counsel does he give? He says, take my advice, do as I'm suggesting here. You'll find that unless God touches his heart and changes it, he'll soon be sick of your company and he'll leave. But I love that Christian leaves that door open for God to work sovereignly in talkative's life. You can tell he's coming from a place of love for him. Some of the kindest people that I've met in this world are some of the most direct at times. And I've so appreciated that about them, not just with me when I've needed counsel or reproof, but with others when I've seen them evangelize and share the gospel or set someone straight. And it comes from that heart of love for another person. Unless God does such a work of regeneration in this currently false professor, Christian tells Faithful, it's just a matter of time before he gets tired of our company. And why is that? Well, because as Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 6, what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? What fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? Amos 3.3, can two walk together except they are agreed? They won't walk together long if they don't have agreement in the most fundamental things of the faith. And so Faithful recognizes this wisdom and he goes to him, he says, well, what should I do? Christian says, just go up to him and begin some serious discussion about the power of religion. Not the talk of religion, the power of religion. And after he's approved of the conversation topic, because he will, then ask him plainly if this thing can be found in his heart, in his house, or in his lifestyle. Ask him those things. So Faithful, okay, I'm gonna go talk to him about this. So he walks up to Talkative. He goes, hey, hey, how are you doing? And Talkative says, good. I thought we would have had several discussions by now, though. Where have you been? I've been lacking someone to talk to. Well, responded Faithful, if you want, we can talk now. Since you left it to me to choose a topic, let it be this question. How does the saving grace of God reveal itself when it is in a person's heart? I perceive, Talkative says, I perceive then that our discussion must be about the power of things. So he discerns well, he knows where Faithful's going here. Well, that's a very good question, and I'll be more than willing to answer you. Take my answer in brief to be this. First, the grace of God in the heart causes a great outcry there against sin. Second, eh, hold up. Faithful interrupts him. He says, let's deal with these one at a time. All right. What did you just say? He says, no, wait. I think we should rather say it shows itself, because Talkative says, the grace of God in the heart causes a great outcry against sin. No, don't sin. Oh, OK, that might be part of it. But no, Faithful says, I think you should rather say that the grace of God shows itself in a person's heart by inclining the soul to abhor its sin. See, there's the difference between talk and power. Oh no, I just sinned. Rats. Knowing that it's sin, even saying verbally that it's sin, Versus, oh, Lord, forgive me, I've sinned. You know, having that internal abhorrence that has been inclined by the washing and regeneration of the spirit in a person's heart to hate their sin, to want to mortify it. Why, asked Talkative, what's the difference between crying out against sin and abhorring it? What's the difference? And Faithful says, oh, a great deal. Someone may cry out against the sin as a matter of policy, but one can't abhor it except God's grace be at work in their heart. So saving grace in the heart brings a true knowledge of self. Bunyan's relying on a lot of his own experiences. You see this throughout his works. There's a conviction of personal sin, a repentance from sin, a turning to Christ, a holiness resulting in something else, something outward, service. You know, we were created for good works. Yes, we're saved by grace through faith, but I feel like talkative misses that last part. So now go and do. We had such a good study in John Cahoon's treatise on the law and gospel to see how God uses his law as a way to help us be more like Christ and to follow him and obey him in grateful obedience. But there's this... There's this confusion in Talkative's mind. He just doesn't get it. Saving grace in the heart is observable to others. Talkative doesn't have that. He's just all talk. Thomas Scott says, Talkative seems to have been introduced on purpose that the author might have a fair opportunity of stating his sentiments concerning the practical nature of religion to which numbers in his day were too inattentive. Good thing we can't say that about our day, right? All those who claim to be Christians and talk a big talk, they're solid, right? No, wrong. We have the same problem, I think, in any generation. This admired allegory, Scott says, has fully established the important distinction between a dead and living faith on which the whole matter depends. That's the whole point of introducing talkative to us, Bunyan showing us the difference between a dead and living faith. And so Faithful continues to examine talkative. He asks Christian, well, how should I go about talking with him? And he says, just talk about this power of religion. And so they get to the nature of knowledge. And I love this line from Faithful. He says on page 110, this is the second thing they get to, a great knowledge of gospel mysteries. That's his answer, the talkative's answer to Christian, excuse me, to faithful, after he says, oh, you've set a trap for me. He's like, no, no, I'm trying to set things right. That's what I'm setting. And so he says, what is the second thing through which you would prove the existence of a work of grace in the heart? And he says, well, a great knowledge of gospel mysteries. Talkative, again, is about knowledge. And faithful goes on and say, well, listen, there's knowledge at the bottom of 110, and then there's knowledge. And you're like, what? He says, "...knowledge that rests in the bare speculation of things, and knowledge that is associated with the grace of faith and love." The first is concerned with satisfying the talker, the bare speculation of things. I think there's a lot out there that falls under that kind of knowledge. A lot of things out there that pretend to be real knowledge. And then there's this other type of knowledge which Faithful mentions, and that is the kind that's associated with the grace of faith and love that causes a person to begin to do God's will from their heart. It leads to action. Psalm 119.34 is what Faithful directly references. your law and observe it with my whole heart. And I'll end with this, and we'll have to pick up more and finish this scene next week. 1 Corinthians 13, 1 and 2, if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have prophetic powers and I understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. That's James 2, 14 through 20 and 26. Faith apart from works is dead. We're talking about true faith here, a faith that talkative lacks. Well, I'm sorry we didn't get through all of this today. It leaves us more to go through next week. We'll have to work that out on who's doing what, but I might be back with you. We'll see. Let's go ahead and go to the Lord in prayer and ask for his blessing upon our time of worship. Lord, we thank you for your truth and for giving your word to us as a guide. We thank you for more mature believers in the faith that might come alongside us. We pray that we would all be humble to listen, to be quick to listen and slow to speak. Give us hearts of genuine faith and repentance and help us to trust in you for everything. We pray all of this and ask for your blessing upon our worship and pray it in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you.