All right, let's get started. Who's going to read our text tonight? What are my options? We have NJB, LIB, Lindgren, and RSB. RSB with me. NJB with us. It's the same as I'm having problems with us. Taco Bell, McDonald's. My goodness. What do you have, Nathan? All right, go Nate. Chapter 60, nice and loud. Say your verse numbers every now and then so people will lose place and catch up. Verse 1, Arise, son, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon it. Verse 2, For behold, the darkness shall come to the earth, and deep darkness to people, but the Lord will arise over you, and his glory will be seen upon you. The Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your eyes. Verse 4, Lift up your eyes all around and see, they all gather together, and they come to you. Your sons shall come from afar, your daughters shall be nursed at your side. Then you shall see him become radiant, and your hearts shall swell with joy, because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you. So once the Gentiles shall come to you, verse six, the multitude of camels shall come to your lamp. The dromedaries of Midian and Ephah, and all those from Sheba shall come. They shall bring gold and incense, and they shall proclaim the praises of the Lord. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together to you, as of the bios, shall minister to you. They shall ascend the big settlings on my altar, and they will glorify the house of my Lord, verse eight. Who are those who fly like a cloud, and like devils to their roots, or roosts? Surely the coastline will wait for me, but the ships of Tarshish will come first. To banish your sons from afar, you yourself are an eagle, but don't say the name of the Lord your God into the holy water of Israel, because he has glorified you. Verse 10. The sons of the foreigners shall build your walls, and their kings shall make assert to you. From my wrath I struck you, but in my favor I have had mercy on you. Therefore your deeds shall be upheld continually. and shall not be shut day or night, that men may bring to you the wealth from the Gentiles and their kings in procession. Verse 12, the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish, and those nations shall be utterly ruined. Verse 13, the glory of Lebanon shall come to you, the Cypress, the pine, the Box Street, the other beautified. the place of my sanctuary. Now make the place of my feet glorious, also the sons of those who reflect you shall come about balance you and all those who despise you shall fall prostrate at the soles of your feet. They shall call you the city of the Lord, line of the home one of Israel was 15. For as you have been forsaken and hated, so that no one went through you, I will make you an eternal excellence, dwelling in many generations. You shall drink the milk of the Gentiles and the milk of the progressive kings. And you shall know that I, the Lord, am your Savior and Redeemer, the mighty one, Jacob. Verse 17, instead of bronze, I will bring gold. Instead of iron, I will bring silver. Instead of wood, bronze. Instead of stones, iron. I will also make your officers peace and your magistrates righteousness. Violence shall no longer be heard in your land, neither wasting nor destruction within your borders. You shall call your walls salvation and your gates praise. Verse 19, the sun shall no longer be your light by day. Nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you. The Lord will be to you an everlasting light. In the name of God, your Lord. Your sun shall no longer go down, nor shall your mountains draw itself. The Lord will be to you an everlasting light. In the days of your mourning shall be ended. Verse 21. Also your people shall all be righteous, that they shall inherit the land forever. the branch of my plant in the work of my hands that I may keep you aside. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation. The Lord will hasten it in his time. All right, very good. Observations. Questions associated with observations. That's Sean. It doesn't seem like there's a major transition from this big on and I'll recognize you're saying you're saying you're saying seeing good Just to get the topic different steam with my man food to do that shift When you guys come to fast All right, it seemed very When does this come to pass? All right, that's a question that needs to be answered tonight. I What questions do we have from the words on the page? Observation. We're looking at the verses. We're looking at the phrases. We're looking at the words. What questions do you have? Who wants to be covered with a multitude of cables? Yeah, OK. All right. That's reasonable. Yeah. All right. What else? Where are these cities? Yeah. OK. Where are these cities? Who is you? Where? All the yous. Who is the audience? So the glory line shines over you, the plural pronoun there. That's what you're saying in verse number one. Is that the question? Yeah, just you continues, right? All right. Yep. Josh, what questions do you have? As you read over the text. And it mentions a lot about life and getting along with yourself. These are things I think is a pretty big thing that will happen in life, maybe except through jealousy. There's times where it talks about being brushed to the dark, but then white comics. Mm-hmm. OK. So I've got a question. So if this is I wouldn't consider me as talking about God's glory and Zion, it's like future future kingdom, just kind of what I'm imagining. But at the end of verse seven, he's talking about glorifying his beautiful house. And if this is God's kingdom and there is no temple, what is he talking about? Church. OK, sure. And that's even a larger question, Caleb, which is, how much of this is figurative? Is any of this literal? How do I read this type of scripture? How do I read this type of scripture? Could be prophetic. Isaiah is a major prophet, so we... Yeah, yeah, right. It's a need for, like, becoming eternal warrior, prophetic of something the Messiah is going to accomplish. Okay. It might not be in the time of Israel now, but to come to be accomplished by the coming Messiah. There's a lot of language about where you is not the only person in existence. There are other nations, there are other kings, there are other people to be that will bring their treasures to you. That's good. You lead. Okay. So a lot of mention of bringing the forces of the Gentiles. And then he says it again later on in verse 11, the forces of the Gentiles is a king that their kings may be brought. Yeah, in verse three. Look darkness will cover the earth and total darkness the people's but the Lord will shine over you and his glory will appear over you Nations will come to your light Kings to your shining brightness Mike the price is not a literal darkness and servants doesn't look like a little light and There seems to be a fair conclusion. It sounds a lot like chapter 54, where it talks about the sons and daughters and the righteousness, and the married woman who's having children that never had any children before, and all of a sudden she has a bunch of children, because it talks about the sons and daughters in verse 4 in chapter 60. I think that might be related to that. All right, so where do we start? Go ahead, Hutch, what'd you say? I just said there's a lot. Yeah, so where do we start? What do we think the light is in verse one? Let's just start there. What do we think, what is our best Interpretation for what the light is in verse number one. Arise, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord shines over you. The awareness of Christ, your Messiah. It's the glory of the Lord, your greater Messiah. It's what Simeon says. What? It's what Simeon says when he sees Jesus. In Luke chapter two? Let's go there. That's in the New Testament. as your dad's Sanford. I mean, Ben, how long is your dad staying for? A couple days? Just over the weekend. Nice. He's going to come to church? Yep. Amen. Good. I'll tell him what a fine son you are. He's a true wealth. When Pam and I first started dating, and Pam's dad, Claude Gilbert, found out that she was dating a soldier, we got on a plane, Jason, and flew to Berean Baptist Church. We started interviewing every single person he could find as to who is this young man that wants to date his daughter. And if he would have said no, what babe? That would have been it. That's it. So I knew I needed to pass the test that weekend. Obviously I passed, right? 35 years later. Well, it says something about your light has risen in the glory, so there we go. All right, where are we at? How much money did you pay in bribes? Yes. I was a private back then, Jack, so... All right read it Josh Well, my eyes are seeing your salvation which you have prepared in the presence of all people I tell you one thing that really bothers me is the inconsistency and when they go Gentiles and when they go nations because it's the exact same Greek words, you know, you know so like in the CSB They have Gentiles right here in Luke, but then they have nations in chapter 60. So you don't immediately make the connection unless you know for sure that the Greek word is ethnos, and it is the exact same word. And so you have to read nations even when you see Gentiles. And I think the reason that's so important to me is because the Great Commission, we are to go to the where? To the nations. And then after you read that in Matthew 28, then you read Gentiles, Gentiles, Gentiles, and you don't even make the connection that those Gentiles are the ones we're going to. But this is a great connection point, and it just reinforces what Jack said, which is that light is the glory of Christ coming to the earth. So now based on, if we can be definitive about that, arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord shines over you. Then let's look at verse two now, and continue our, verse two back in Isaiah, continue our process here. Darkness will come to the earth, total darkness of the peoples, but the Lord will shine over you and and his glory will appear over you. So I'm making a connection to John chapter one. Yeah, where we're gone, where John was writing and he says they were in darkness, but the light came and they rejected the light. And Master five. Point eight. So where are you in John 1? Yeah, it sure is. In the beginning was the Word, in John 1.1, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. not anything created that had been created or has been created in him was life and that life shines and that life was the light of man that light shines in the darkness and yet the darkness did not overcome it so what word would you put in front of darkness to provide clarity and sin darkness injection of God's will the direction inside not spiritual You don't know that God is God You don't know that God is God, that he loves them, that he loves them and wants them to be his creation. He's blind too. They're blind. Okay, so if our meaning is correct, then we can conclude that this has already been fulfilled. And Matthew 5 adds to that. Because Jesus said, we are blighted. You are blighted. So is this prophetic? Yes, absolutely, it's prophetic. Given about 700 years before Christ. The risen part. I'm sorry, I'm false, I'm false, I'm false. In verse three, I see a heavy connection to Romans chapter 11. I see a heavy connection to Genesis 12.3. Well, also that, because 12.3 is the foreshadowing of Romans 11 being carried out. All right, so let's not assume that everyone knows what we're talking about. Genesis 12 3 babble Right and that's what we always focus on So do we need to go back to Genesis 12 where you guys all know just Okay, all right Then you know it's a yes All right, so this is the Abrahamic Covenant the Abrahamic Covenant and We need to get this down. We need to learn this we need to learn it well and my experience is most evangelicals put all the emphasis on the land and Which is where, that's the least important part of the entire prophecy, is the dirt. The most important thing, if you're a gentile in here, if your ethnicity is anything other than a Jew, the most important thing to you is the end of verse 3. Read it nice and loud, Josh. And I will bless those who bless you, and those who want to curse you, I will curse. And in all the families that we have, we'll be blessed by you. Yeah, and so, you know, the CSB says through you. Who's got an ESB? It's in you. In you. What does the King James say? Let's hear what the... In you? In the? Right. So then we need to know who that you is. And we don't have to wonder, why don't we have to wonder? Because Paul tells us very clearly that in Galatians 3.16, that you is Christ. So, I mean, it's not up for debate. It's not like the commentator is Paul, who is explaining to us the you. So then we need to be able to answer, what is that blessing? So it says, and all the families, nations, clans, peoples on the earth will be blessed, and I can put through Christ. So now what we want to be able to answer is, what is that blessing? The new product. Salvation for all nations. The Spirit. The Spirit, new heart. It's the grass that came back in. So everything that's associated with the new covenant is what Heather is saying. All the promises, what? I was saying also in Isaiah 42, it's almost like tying them together. I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations. And God explains it. Open the eyes that are blind, bring out the prisoners from the dungeon. From the prison, those who sit in darkness, I'm the Lord, that is my name. Yeah, beautiful. Which is what Jesus quotes to John's disciples when they come to talk to him about his secret Christ. Beautiful. One more time, Hutch. Say that louder. That is what Jesus quotes to John's disciples when they come from prison, speaking to John. And John asks them to ask Jesus if he really is the Messiah. He heals people in front of them, and he quotes that exact same verse. Isaiah 42. Right, so John's struggling in prison. Why am I in prison? You gotta know he's wondering why is he in prison if the light has arrived, the Messiah's here, maybe Jesus is not, maybe I got it wrong. You can imagine him going through all that, and then he quotes the Isaiah passage that was just read to us. I thought the fast that we were just looking at last week at East City Preferred, because he preferred that they do what you just read in Isaiah 42. He preferred that over what they were doing as far as fast book. Yeah. Okay. Take care of the blind and take care of the sick too. Oh, I mean, yeah. Like let's count the same kind of concept healing steps together. Right. So when we read, go, let's go back to Isaiah 60. Okay. Alright, so when we read nations will come to your life, paraphrase that. Explain that to somebody. You're in a discipleship group. All peoples can come to Christ. This right here says will. Well, I don't like that better than the chosen from all the nations for come to Christ. OK, how about what I do? It's up. I'll solve it. I see. OK, it's a revelation. Twenty one, twenty two, that every nation, every tribe, every time will confess that Christ would. Yeah, it's fake. We're all getting the idea that they're coming to faith in the gospel. This is what's happening here. Verse four, raise your eyes and look around. They all gather and come to you. Your sons will come from afar, your daughters on the hips of nursing mothers. So now we need to figure out what from that verse. Yeah, exactly, perfect. There's a plural pronoun and there's another pronoun. So, who's the you? Nations will come to your light and kings to your shining brightness. Raise your eyes and look around. They all gather and come to you. Your sons will come to you from afar, your daughters on their hips. The last part talking about a return from exile. So it's the gathering of the elect to Christ. My sheep are my boys. So see how we just went two different ways in this room. You're still, Jason, loud and clear in the New Testament. Nations coming to Christ through the gospel. And then somebody over here, Caleb, you went exiles. That's the condescendingness. But also, you frequently say dual fulfillment, because there are some things in here that you can see, like the beautified temple. You could easily talk about Herod's temple. But at the same time, there are some things that you could look and say that do not fit the Roman context, because under Roman law. So there's some things you could look at and say, it does refer to the back, the exiles coming back, and some things it does not. And then it expands saying, the wealth of the Gentiles shall come to you. Any specific scenes? Right. So are we supposed to interpret those cities in a literal sense? We are. So we've read verse after verse in a very figurative, spiritual sense. And now we're suddenly going to go literal on a city's name. So they're probably telling us something about the goods that are coming to America. Yeah, because it wasn't median from Abraham's occupying lineage, and they weren't getting along with the Israelites. So this sounds to me like people that you don't usually get along with, you'll start getting along. You know, Sheba is known for its wealth. Lebanon's known for its lumber, trees, and those tall seers. Each one of these had their own. Edahr's known for its flocks and the shepherding the wheat and the things that ain't that. They all have, there's a, so all the good things from everywhere. Exactly. There you go. Well, the thing like Caleb was saying about this could be dual, I don't know is it, it all gathers together. As long as you're willing to be consistent with your dual fulfillment. Because you can't arbitrarily decide that some verses are fulfillment, but the light is not. If you're going to have a fulfillment in Israel's day in a literal sense, now you've got to figure out what question. Light came to what's the light but at the same time pastor you referenced in a sermon a couple months ago The very same thing that that Hutch was talking about that when Christ read the scroll from Isaiah He left off the last part of the prophecy because they had not been outfield yet, right? Sure, so I mean in theory Could that not be the same here? The activity the prophetic if you see a clear break that would I allow you to do that. I wouldn't make that break, but Christ is the one that made that break. He's the one that did that, right? So that's the only way I can authoritatively do that is because I'm following Christ. Where would you say the authoritative break would be here? I would just throw it out there. Yeah, that's fine, because there's lots of people that would read Millennial Kingdom all over this chapter. Read some language, just so the class can hear it, Jason. This expressed the glory of Jerusalem during the Millennial Kingdom. That's for verse two. Glory, all the darkness will close the earth, and the Lord will rise upon thee, and his glory will appear. That's verse one in Jesus. That's the next. Nations will come. And he's dealing with the fact that there's still, in this part of 60, there's still darkness around, but a light's dawn. I just think it's the church age. We are in. The light's here. These things are fulfilled in us. People are coming from all nations. We're listening to that podcast about Dubai, and there's people from all over the place coming to that church and hearing the light, having their eyes open. So ever since the day that Jesus broke in and the divine became man, the light's been here. Okay, so you just heard about this podcast. Maybe you don't know which one. A lot of people, our disciple making group has it. It's called, I sent it to you last night, Storm in the Desert. Storm in the Desert. Who started it in here? Okay, you finished it in one day, all five of them. You're not supposed to do that. All right, give us, what did you think, Jess? I thought it was really interesting. I really liked their influence of talking about making like microchurches everywhere instead of like one centralized pub. They're trying, they don't even want it. That's it. Summarize the podcast in 30 seconds, Jess. people being obedient to God, sending them out to make disciples of God's nations. And this is happening in the Middle East. This is happening in Dubai. Dubai, right? And like this pastor said in his church, This is not how it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be a building where an assembly door is. And the New Testament, it's not a perfect place here or something like that. Ecclesial, right? It doesn't need assemblies. We have all these buildings. We have this building so that it doesn't rain on us. But I mean, why is that when we gather? It's always just here. Why isn't it anywhere else? Why isn't that with us? People do. People in the church meet in lots of places. People meet at homes together. We'd also meet in microgroups. We'd have prayer meetings in places. PX on the dead wall. PX on board. We'd eat and lunch. Yeah. It might be about a church. That's a building. It's never going to be good. Or everything is always referred to as a church. Yes, the church is the curse or a membership to a church. It's just an assembly, right? Yeah, I mean, I think we'd have to say that in the 21st century, we have adopted the idea that church can be used in two ways. The church needs to be painted, and the church is gathering for worship in the park. And the context lets you know how we're using the word church in the 21st century. But you are clearly right that in the New Testament, the word is ekklesia, it's the gathering, it's the assembly of believers. And for us, during COVID, we assembled right outside there. I don't know how many were here, but we assembled right outside there, outside, so that we could have the fresh air of the, what, germ prevention or whatever. I can't even remember why we were doing it. It was just hot. I remember it was really hot. Right, it was really hot, so we gathered outside. So, I mean, you know, this church could burn down. and we would figure out a place to gather, and we would still gather while we're rebuilding the church. But in July, it is really wonderful to have a gathering place where we can try to temperature down. But let's go back to the point here. We as an evangelical church are divided on how to interpret scriptures like this. And you heard John MacArthur and that whole, part of the Evangelical Church, they immediately put their Millennial Kingdom lens on and read that here. And so what that means is you have to ignore John 1, Matthew 5, you have to ignore all those scriptures Decide that wasn't here or you have to say Caleb. It's a dual fulfillment. It was fulfilled in the church age It's gonna be fulfilled and again and then when a kingdom, but he doesn't even give way for a dual fulfillment, right? No, right. I am much more comfortable What is the bilingual kingdom? It's the belief that when Christ returns, the Israel, ethnic Israel, ethnic national territory Israel, goes into a thousand year period where Christ is ruling on the earth, and God returns his focus to them and the promises he made to them. At the end of that period of time, there's a final battle. Satan is ultimately cast into the lake of fire, and then we have the new heaven and the new earth, and then we live forever. So the church, the large, now I'm using church as the universal body of believers who have different theological, eschatological perspectives. Some say there is going to be a millennial kingdom, some say there isn't. I used to be very persuaded, I would argue vehemently that there was one until I taught through the book of Revelation. And that turned me upside down. It was not anything other than the actual book. So there are several people here in this room that were here and witnessed that transition. And it was not because I fell in love with a commentator. It was because the word of God impacted my understanding of that. Right, so it just changed everything for me, and it allowed me now to read passages like this in a different light. Because we're struggling with the literalness and how to apply it in a sense. But I really liked what you said a minute ago, Ben, when you said, all the good things are coming from... Yeah. Right, I mean, that sounds so simplistic, doesn't it? But if you take the holistic of everything we just read, what I mean by the holistic would be camels, young camels of Midian. And so he's taking, in my view, he's taking everything that they would have thought would be awesome. Why do you want a young camel? Because they can grow up, and you'll have more than one camel. So for you, Jessie, it would be what kind of horses? Tell me more specifically. If they were coming to you, the horses were just being given to you. Really well-bred two-year-old quarter horses. All right, so you just said well-bred two-year-old quarter horses. So that is like a figurative representation of greatness for her, right? What Ford Mustang Yeah, do you have one or do you want one yeah, yeah, do you have the self-control to have one No. Nice, honest answer. Yeah. I got to ride in Lynn Johnson's Corvette today. And he has a G reader, a G-force reader. It tells you how many G-forces. And so he had to demonstrate to me what that felt like to enter into some Gs. Well, needless to say, the gas pedal was mashed down. The top was down. I thought it was in a Tom Cruise movie or something, you know? But you know. The author, the author Isaiah, is using language that the original audience would have immediately associated with. Right, right. You're getting an iPhone 17! Is there a 17? 16? That's how good it is. All right, go Ben. I've never, like, I've never, like, yes, I do want to go to college in Lula. I don't understand it. I understand the necessity of studying it. You don't get, like, so up and on with the words. I don't get it. Like, my faith isn't broken if it turns out there is an ANC thousand-year kingdom. Like, you know, it will happen or it won't. And we can't stop it from happening or make it happen. level of degree and enjoy what we're reading and try to understand the rest of our book. I think when you go through as being, having been raised that way, believe me, I mean, there are more that came up to me as well. And then in the last two years, studying The Revelation on my own, I didn't, it wasn't a, I must study this to be able to get up in arms about it. It was more of, as I studied through, it just disappeared. Like, what do I do with that? Because it doesn't fit anything else I'm looking at. You're like, so now I just look at it. I don't know what that is. Like, it's there. Like, Revelation 20 definitely exists. But I mean, I can't look at it as anything literal because nothing else fits it. So it kind of eliminates its own self in the process. So if you're going to talk about things as a believer, what are you going to talk about? We talk about sports. We can talk about other things. We can discuss the things in the Word. It's pretty fun, in my opinion. So when we start interpreting scripture, Ben, we have a desire of coming to conclusions. Right, you know we want to context observation meeting application What does this mean and then two people come to a different conclusion? And then they spend the rest of their lives trying to convince other believers that they're right and they're right which is what? We don't bring fellowship with John MacArthur, because he's still got a lot of good for us. But John MacArthur claims to be, but he says he's confused. He's reformed, but confused. So he believes, or he still accepts some of, like, the words of theology, but he also still believes in some sort of a future kingdom for Israel. So he struggles with problem 11, what he struggled with. Yes, yeah, there should be some degree and yet if the Holy Spirit is gonna reveal to us truth Then we should expect to be growing in our knowledge of Scripture Right, but I mean like with prophecies is an element of oh That's what it is mystery get there. And so I'd have that just sure What? Well, we wouldn't conclude it as the word of God, right? I mean, it's the very fact that we've been studying it for 2000 years and we still haven't come to definitive conclusions, gives evidence that, you know, it is a special book in every regard. Ben, when we got, let me just, Ben, when we got done with Revelation, we intentionally changed our article of faith to make it more inclusive. so that we no longer have a stand on the Millennial Kingdom as a church. So when you come, you can say, well, I believe in the Millennial Kingdom, and we'd say, well, you're welcome, because our article of faith does not definitively say yes or no. We nail down, Jesus is coming back. That's for sure. He's coming back in a literal return sense. There's going to be an eternal kingdom. But that whole window of time there has been removed so that people of different persuasions can both join the church without compromising their conscience. Yup. So, I'm a little confused on the, I guess, the theological arguments or whatever that goes on with the Assemble, with Revelation 20. What is the confusion? That it is going to rain there, or that it's not there, right? That the confusion, that the argument is of that Shabbat or something. The issue is, is he presently reigning in heaven, or is there a future reign on earth? That's the difference. Well, he says he's gonna be on earth. Then it says that all those who die to the beast, well, they rise with him. So I'm not understanding where the argument for people is. We could certainly go to lunch. If you text me your, if we get Kinect, I'll lay it out for you, because I've been working on it for 18 years. Yeah. The thing is that it was fully set for the problem. Like, I believe it's in 15 when it talks about elusiveness, and then it closes it out in 20, saying, all those who died now are in the rain now. We curse. It's a parallelism. Yeah, right. It is. I mean, Revelation is only one of the most difficult books in the Bible. And there's an incredible degree of symbolism in it, much like Isaiah passages that we're reading. And people come to different conclusions as they read that. All you have to do is YouTube this and you'll see a gazillion opportunities to research. A great example of this is how many Messianic prophecies there are. And yet no one was right when he came. And then back and yet if you look at second Temple Judaism, even even not just The New Testament, you should look at what everyone thought the Messiah to be. There's a million different answers, and they don't get it. Okay, so if we go all the way to 6, now let's look at the last of 7. Put your eyes, please, on the last of 7. All right, I will glorify my beautiful house. OK, so now this is where we're going to be divided again, because is this a physical structure that's being glorified? And I would say, no, it's not a physical structure. This is the body of Christ being glorified. This is God doing a salvific, sanctifying work in the body of Christ. And we see this on Sunday mornings when there's a gathering of a mixed multitude of ethnicities and different income levels and southerners and northerners and we're all collectively worshiping the Lord and it becomes a beautiful sight You know, we are the house of the Lord. Your body is a temple. Christ lives in you through the Holy Spirit. You know that very idea. My study note says that the same phraseology for that is also the same phraseology of 13, where it says, I will glorify my dwelling place. What, verse 13, Jack? Of the same chapter. Right, so the glory of Lebanon will come to you. It's pine, elm, cypress together to beautify the place of my sanctuary, and I will glorify my dwelling place. So the dwelling place, glorify my dwelling place, and glorify my beautiful house are the same word phraseology. they're parallels to each other, meaning the same thing, very funny. What? And they mean the exact same thing. Okay, so then, so you have to take, if we look at verse 13, Jack took us to verse 13, you have to understand that he's using literal location in Lebanon, pine, elm, and cypress together, so the most beautiful combination of wood possible, and then you take that and you just eliminate literal. You have to be willing to do that. You have to be saying that that is a physical description of a symbolic representation of something that's beyond wood. Yeah. Can I add something? Yeah, of course you can. I agree with that as well because one of the things that made me think about treasures is the gold and the Parkinson's. So it made me think about when Jesus said to Was it a young lawyer? I forget, but yeah, he said, store up your treasures in heaven. You've got to do this and that. And basically, this is what made me think about. And the reason why I brought up the meeting in place is because even people that were not. Getting along with the Israelites, you maybe think, you know, even they would come to Christ, even they who are against Christ will later on content and store up their treasures in heaven. And it made me think about when we saw our treasures in heaven, you glorify them. This is not literal, this is more spiritual, glorifying with the treasures that we do. Plus we have to realize that we don't have to limit it to a building. So even in the literal sense, they would not have limited this to a building. It could have been as large as a city. Because when you're dealing with a king or a ruler, Like the city of Bethlehem was the house of bread. Was he? So that is, an entire city is considered the house of bread. So we're talking about this idea of Jerusalem would have been the house of David. Because it's David's throne city. in that type of aspect. So you're looking at this idea that this dwelling place, this beautiful house, is wherever the king is being spoken of, which we've already identified as the Messiah, inhabits. So where does the Messiah inhabit today? Well, we know that Christ is at the right hand of the Lord, but he left his representative's deity within us, indwelling us, the Holy Spirit, which is in all believers globally, a.k.a. the church body. Thank you. Yeah. Well, yeah. Look at verse 11. Your city gates will always be open. They will never be shut by day or night. I'll just read to you. I'll just read to you from Revelation 21. I'll read to you from Revelation 21. Its gates will never close by day because it will never be there What these parallels are incredible aren't they I mean, they're just unbelievable Yeah, no Sun. Don't move right and let's make sure no curse. There's no violence. There's no threat Yeah, did you have something? Oh? No, yeah, I got it on the same this might be the short. Oh, it's there. Yeah, I The sons of your oppressors, in verse 14, will come and bow down to you. All who reviled you will fall face down at your feet. They will call you the city of the Lord, Zion of the Holy One of Israel. Instead of your being deserted and hated with no one passing through, I will make you an object of eternal pride, a joy from age to age. Sounds like you mean Jerusalem. So we would say that this light of the world is Christ's now, what he did for us now, that he's the light of the world all the way through, and that it speaks out the new Jerusalem. So it's speaking out. as a final result of that. So he's essentially talking about this entire time period of the beginning of the church age to the very end of time. The beginning of eternity, essentially, correct? I would agree with that, yeah. You will nurse on the milk of nations, nurse at the breast of kings. You will know that I am the Lord your Savior and Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob. This is this absolute confidence that we know who God is and He is our Savior. I will bring gold instead of bronze, silver instead of iron, bronze instead of wood, iron instead of stones. So how should we understand those four stanzas right there of those four principles? kind of, you know, gold instead of bronze, and how should we understand that? Everything about Christ is superior to everything else in the world. If there's something better to come, yeah. Okay. Violence will never again be heard of your land. Devastation and destruction will be gone from your borders. Hutch, is this where you think that we're beginning to make the transition to the new heaven and new earth? Yeah. Remember I said, 17 to 22 is like Revelation 21, like almost. The sun will no longer be your light by day. Brightness of the moon will not shine on you. The Lord will be your everlasting light and your God will be your splendor. Your sun will no longer set. Your moon will not fade for the Lord will be your everlasting light and the days of your sorrow will be over. So Hudge, are you interpreting that Isaiah 60 has this church age followed by new heaven and new earth? Yeah, that seems to make sense. I think 1st John kind of gives us some clarity on this, do you? Okay, 1st John. We've got eight minutes. 1st John. Yeah, I think John just overall is always playing with this theme of light and dark by myself. He talks about it all the place. Because I was going to say that the very first two verses of Isaiah 6 and 7 says that we say that we have light and darkness, which shows the genesis of the first creation. And then we talk about John 1, and he's this new idea of being recreated and essentially being born again. And then this is a new creation in Latin Europe. And so it's reflected off of this. Yeah, I didn't have that theological understanding. First John 1. The reason why we need to read this is because you can't just put that light in the future. John tells us it affects us now. So 1 John 1, just 5 to 7, and then we'll jump to 1 John 2. But 1 John 1, 5, this is how he defines the gospel. This is the message we have heard from him and declared to you. God is light, and there is absolutely no darkness in him. If we say we have fellowship with Him, and yet we walk in darkness, we are lying and are not practicing the truth. If we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin. And then if you jump down to 1 John 2, starting in verse 7. He says, starting in verse 7, Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command, but an old command that you have had from the beginning. The old command is the word you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. Verse 9, The one who says he is in the light but hates his brother and sister is in the darkness until now. The one who loves his brother or sister remains in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But the one who hates his brother or his sister is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and doesn't know where he's going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. It connects to everything we've been talking about, about righteousness and justice for the whole last chapter, though, I'd say. And that's what I would say, that this entire chapter may even be completely about the return of Christ. Because I see I see in verse eight. Who are these who fly like a cloud, like doves to their shelters? Revelation 19. Well, I think I think this is the return of Christ and his armies. I assume like after the Friday evening. Oh, I'm similar. What do you think about the connection between eight at night? Where were you back to Isaiah? Sorry. And the coast of the islands that will wait with arches. I think what's happening is This is when Christ returns, this is the effect of this return. Because if we truly believe, if we truly believe that there is no 21 sequential judgments, a millennial period and a God made God valid. and then the eternal kingdoms. There is still a time of perditions and the believing of a great lie. Yeah. And unleashing of Satan's power to deceive the nations. in a time frame in which things have to be short, and where Steve, the very elect, would be the seed. So, Jackson went to the Olivet Discourse now for everyone, right? So, he's now in Matthew, and he's walking us through Jesus' description of what the tribulation or the great tribulation is going to be like. And these are the characteristics that we are going to expect, that it's going to get worse before it gets better. Right, and so that's what you're making reference to. And if it were not for my return, the days would become so dark that even the very less would be the sea. It's what Jesus says very clearly himself. So we start out with, it is such darkness, but the light now shines. In verse 8, who are these that fly like doves? Well, this is Christ returning to the clouds. All of this is the effects that surrounds us. All the happiness, all the joys, all the benefits, all the peace, everything of Christ coming to reign in the nature of the ship. and I guess what do you think much do it up boss now that is a definitive answer right there I mean you took a stand right there it's possible I just think I think we need to give our hope like our hope is in Well, one, I think these things are happening over and over again. Like, we're not in the tribulation right now, but I feel like I'm in darkness when I'm at work. I definitely feel that. I feel like darkness now with things going on in the world. I don't think we always have been. And I think if you interviewed any Christian from the last 2,000 years, take the period of 80, 70, they definitely thought that they were in the middle of the tribulation. So I think there's also a lot of aspects where Just like you pointed out in your relationship, it was like, bad things are going to happen to us as believers, but we have the life, we have the Christ. And eventually, exactly like you're saying, it's gonna be consummated, it's gonna be finished, and the light will fill the whole earth, and it will be done. But for now, we have to claim these kinds of promises when we see them in the Old Testament, because the apostles do it for us, and they remind us that even now the light is shining. It's not just a future thing, but we have it now, and we only have it when we walk in love to one another, when we submit to the Spirit, when we walk in Him. Great application. So there's this degree in which this is the already and not yet, right? Yes. Yes, right. We agree on sin. Yeah. All right. Go Josh. Um, one thing that I was like thinking because it, this is like before, um, newer arts and so forth, because it talks in a merge of lemons is Mayfro. The LBTCs. they will not close a gate or none, so that men may bring to you the wealth of the nation, which are kings and princes. This is about day and night still. When we get this new birth and new heaven, there's supposed to be no more night. But again, there's no way they would have understood that, Josh. There's no way. How can anyone in this room conceive of not having time? What's that, Deb? It's like go to Alaska. It's just six months. Ancient poetry like that, they speak in opposites that way. They'll talk completely opposite language. They're not saying that it exists. It's like his name will be removed from the Book of Life. Well, the thing was never in there to begin with. He's not saying that someone was in there and then they got taken out. They were there. So he says it's not going to be shut day or night. It doesn't matter what the world is. The gate's never going to be shut if the point isn't shut. Well, like we were just saying, all the goods from everywhere, you know, it's the same idea all the time, day and night. Yeah. Caleb, go. I was just going to reference how you previously used the analogy of how do you explain an iPhone to a to a billboard. Yeah. Impossible. You can't do it. There's no way. There's not a person in this room smart enough to explain an iPhone to a billboard. You just throw it. You can't explain an iPhone. It's a locker room. Right. Yeah. All right. Go ahead, Dan. Do an application. You are what we're doing now. All right. So James asked the question, what is the application? And I would say the application for us is that there is an eternal hope of something much better than we are ever experiencing. And it's not in the White House. It's not in a political party. It's not in anything other than the return of Christ Jesus. And until he comes back, we need to live faithfully anticipating his glorious return. I wanted everyone in the whole church to listen to the Storms in the Desert podcast because it's just so cotton-picking encouraging. It just reminds you that God is still alive and well. He is saving people in spite of ourselves. I mean, you've got these people that are getting called to go to the ministry who have plans of being dentists, lawyers, doctors, senators. And now they're serving, the one story where it was after 9-11. And I mean, nobody goes back to the Middle East after 9-11. What American would leave America to go to Dubai, however you pronounce it, and start a church? Did you have the hatred towards Did you have that moment where you saw the twin tires come down? Did it create within you an animosity to everyone who rode a camel and wore a turban? Were you sent there to kill people? I was in the army when we ramped up. We ramped up. It changed everything for us. We had a new enemy. When I joined the army, Russia was our enemy. I saw a new enemy come on board, and it was no longer Russia, and they had damaged it. My point to you is those American citizens gave up America to go there and plant a church. So our words send me. What? To our words send me. Yes, exactly, and bring them the gospel. And then how do white Westerners plant a church there that people from all the nations come and visit and get saved? Only God can do this. Only God can do this. So there's your application. Go get your Juana kids, you're three minutes late.